Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Tree Gelbman]

Lucas is a thing too.

Oh look. Another veteran from Brawl.

Ya'll literally want to make veterans for Smash 4 DLC into a ''Who?" situation.

I can't even.

 

[Double K]

Oh boy more DQ... discussion.

Alright guys I have a serious question to ask, why are people so confident in a DQ rep?

I know that the majority of people think that a Square rep is very likely to get in due to Vergeben's comments in the past...

But considering none of the major leakers mentioned Joker at all, including him, I figured more people would be more hesitant to take any leak as very likely, even Verg (despite his near flawless record for the base roster).

It could still happen, but I'm not exactly inclined to believe everything Vergeben says in this stage of the speculation game.

It's not even confidence in a DQ rep.

It's that if ti is a DQrep, who it would be. Saying it won't be Erdrick because he is a "Literal Who" when Smash is known for bringing in a bunch of them (Lucas, Roy, Falcon, Bayonetta) is laughable, and Erdrick's iconography is so deeply rooted into gaming culture that people who might not know his name will be aware of him, far moreso than Eight

 

[Dragoncharystary]

DLC Predictions:

-Joker (duh)
-Erdrick
-Steve
-Fortniter
-Sylux

Two JRPG guys to appeal to the Japanese fanbase and the more hardcore smash fans who play the more niche games. Then two characters from popular games to appeal to more general audiences and casual smash fans. Then there's sylux who's just a nintendo character being used to promote a new game.

Honestly, I think this would make most people pretty happy.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Okay, so he's a veteran.

People were already bemoaning the fact we had 4 Fire Emblem characters or "Fire Emblem Bias". By your own logic, Roy should have sold terribly due to America's fatigue with the series in Smash.

But that's not lol my logic at all.

You inserted that. I never said anything that even remotely hinted at this scenario you just typed out. Oh my god.

Look I get it you are huge Dragon Quest fan and I'm not really that experienced with the series myself, but I'm not saying these things to hurt the series or whatever. I'm saying them to be logical, because the fact of the matter is. The series is only truly popular in one side of the world.

And yes that just might hurt it in terms of DLC chances. You can choose to not believe that, but because I believe that do not insert words into my mind and do not misunderstand my intentions for saying these things.

 

[Arcanir]

Let's be real though. TP Zelda has one emotion:

Stern thousand yard stare.

Two if we count "Pained" from being possessed by Ganon.


TP Link actually shows a wide variety of emotions and quirks despite the game being murky and color muted.

Honestly, I don't think TP Zelda being stoic is the issue as many characters who are stoic tend to be popular, but rather the issue is that she's not given a lot of focus in the game. IIRC, she only appears four times in TP's story, the initial escape from the dungeon, Midna's near death experience, and the finale and credit scene. The former two are generally exposition based and are more trying to get the player up to speed on the world around them so you don't get as much out of her character aside from her making a tough decision, and the final two are lengthy, but is focused on the task of being Ganondorf and wrapping up the story, so she's not given a lot of time to bounce off the characters as much nor get attached to the player. So ultimately she's mostly just there to fill the role she's meant to fill, and since there are other characters in the game that do that plus have a lot more to their characters and stories (Midna in particular) she ends not shining as much as she could've.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Alright, i'm gonna make a prediction. The kinda prediction that has a very very low chance of happening, but if it does i'll have bragging rights for all eternity.

We will get an Undertale character. Maybe not Sans, probably Frisk. But i'm calling it right now.

I don't need you to tell me the odds, I know how unlikely this is.

Am I wrong? Probably, yeah. But remember, nothing's too crazy anymore.

We never saw it coming.

So happy I'm not the only one who thinks if we get a UT Character, it will be Frisk, and not Sans.
Better moveset potential as well, in my opinion. (wow I reply to alot of your posts, don't I? xD)

 

[Shroob]

But that's not lol my logic at all.

You inserted that. I never said anything that even remotely hinted at this scenario you just typed out. Oh my god.

Look I get it you are huge Dragon Quest fan and I'm not really that experienced with the series myself, but I'm not saying these things to hurt the series or whatever. I'm saying them to be logical, because the fact of the matter is. The series is only truly popular in one side of the world.

And yes that just might hurt it in terms of DLC chances. You can choose to not believe that, but because I believe that do not insert words into my mind and do not misunderstand my intentions for saying these things.

Except, I'm not. The only Dragon Quest game I've played is 8, and I didn't even complete it.

But even someone like me who's only played 1 game in the series recognizes that Erdrick is the de-facto face of the protagonists.

 

[doomedtacox]

We got Dragon Quest 3 under a different title and no one really responded to it.

It's not about the fact that we got it with Dragon Quest. It's about the fact. America just does not give a **** and putting one of the characters in DLC is not gonna change that.

It's a flawed business design. Explain how is selling a character to America they don't know or care about, suddenly going to make them want to invest in the series? It's not.

It's a dangerous game because you get the chance of ''Well I don't know that character I'm not spending money on them."

That's why Eight is a better choice. They at least entertained the idea of Dragon Quest when it came to his game. And people might go ''Oh yeah! I vaguely remember that. "

The chances of DLC selling works better when the character is someone that illicits a mostly positive reaction.

Erdrick won't bring that if people don't recognize him.

Lmao we got Mark Cuban 2.0 the business master over here.

 

[perfectchaos83]

Oh boy more DQ... discussion.

Alright guys I have a serious question to ask, why are people so confident in a DQ rep?

I know that the majority of people think that a Square rep is very likely to get in due to Vergeben's comments in the past...

But considering none of the major leakers mentioned Joker at all, including him, I figured more people would be more hesitant to take any leak as very likely, even Verg (despite his near flawless record for the base roster).

It could still happen, but I'm not exactly inclined to believe everything Vergeben says in this stage of the speculation game.

Missing something doesn't mean they were wrong. Different groups have different info. It's highly likely that the people verge and everyone else has talked to were not privy to that info.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Except, I'm not. The only Dragon Quest game I've played is 8.

But even someone like me who's only played 1 game in the series recognizes that Erdrick is the de-facto face of the protagonists.

Okay, but that's not necessarily what the rest of America is going to know.

Just because you and I know, doesn't mean everyone else does.

Because you're placing a large group of consumers into this bubble that simply isn't true or possible. There's no way for a large chunk of common American consumers to know ''Oh yeah that makes sense because he's from, national holiday, blah blah."

They're just going to see a dude they don't know and either have one of two reactions. ''Lame. Next." or ''Who? Okay, they do look cool though."

And considering how ****** consumers can be you don't really want to risk a DLC choice like that IMO.

And none of the examples you or anyone have given come remotely close to that kind of situation.

 

[Shroob]

Oh boy more DQ... discussion.

Alright guys I have a serious question to ask, why are people so confident in a DQ rep?

I know that the majority of people think that a Square rep is very likely to get in due to Vergeben's comments in the past...

But considering none of the major leakers mentioned Joker at all, including him, I figured more people would be more hesitant to take any leak as very likely, even Verg (despite his near flawless record for the base roster).

It could still happen, but I'm not exactly inclined to believe everything Vergeben says in this stage of the speculation game.

I mean, Verg didn't know K.Rool, Richter, Chrom or Dark Samus despite those names getting tossed around behind the scenes long before he even mentioned Ken.

Verg's info was only partial in the end.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh boy more DQ... discussion.

Alright guys I have a serious question to ask, why are people so confident in a DQ rep?

I know that the majority of people think that a Square rep is very likely to get in due to Vergeben's comments in the past...

But considering none of the major leakers mentioned Joker at all, including him, I figured more people would be more hesitant to take any leak as very likely, even Verg (despite his near flawless record for the base roster).

It could still happen, but I'm not exactly inclined to believe everything Vergeben says in this stage of the speculation game.

tbh yeah after verge was wrong on the "square rep will be first revealed" thing I'm starting to wonder if he even has any credible sources for DLC since DLC is a whole 'nother ball game

 

[Deleted member]

Hold up, are some y'all calling Lucas a literal who?

Everytime I tune into Vinesauce, "Vinny Will Never Stream Mother 3" has been an ongoing joke. When did Lucas ever become a "who" when that's like, the most requested port or re-release in Nintendo history?

I'm trying to wrap my head around this. Send help please.

 

[Deleted member]

Hold up, are some y'all calling Lucas a literal who?

Everytime I tune into Vinesauce, "Vinny Will Never Stream Mother 3" has been an ongoing joke. When did Lucas ever become a "who" when that's like, the most requested port or re-release in Nintendo history?

I'm trying to wrap my head around this. Send help please.

I refer to Lucas back in Brawl.

Back then people outside of Japan wouldn’t have heard of him that much.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

So, what's some non-fighter DLC You all think would be cool?
The ability to make your fighters eyes purple or red would be cool.

 

[Shroob]

Hold up, are some y'all calling Lucas a literal who?

Everytime I tune into Vinesauce, "Vinny Will Never Stream Mother 3" has been an ongoing joke. When did Lucas ever become a "who" when that's like, the most requested port or re-release in Nintendo history?

I'm trying to wrap my head around this. Send help please.

Mother 3's big now, but back in Brawl? It was nowhere the level it is now. It was 'big' because "Oh **** a new Mother/Mother 3's finally coming out", but it's nowhere near the meme level it is now.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Hold up, are some y'all calling Lucas a literal who?

Everytime I tune into Vinesauce, "Vinny Will Never Stream Mother 3" has been an ongoing joke. When did Lucas ever become a "who" when that's like, the most requested port or re-release in Nintendo history?

I'm trying to wrap my head around this. Send help please.

Apparently Corrin, Bayo, Lucas, and Roy all became literal whos overnight?

Despite Fire Emblem being a major series worldwide now.

Bayonetta 3 being revealed at a global event like the Game Awards and having been a recent Nintendo acquire at the time of her inclusion.

Mother 3 being a major fan want worldwide and him being a beloved Brawl veteran.

and Roy being a beloved Melee veteran from a beloved Nintendo series.

Yes, all literal whos who should have truly flopped at selling DLC.

 

[Deleted member]

So, what's some non-fighter DLC You all think would be cool?
The ability to make your fighters eyes purple or red would be cool.

Stage builder, Break The Targets and Poké-Floats

 

[SnakeFighter64]

It's going to happen more because he's such a literal who.

He's a shill pick as well despite his legacy if it's a ''GOTTA FORCE DRAGON QUEST ON AMERICA" situation. People aren't gonna respond well to that and will further meme him because of that.

If they wanted to actually show America ''Hey. Remember when you almost were interested in this series?" ''Here's Eight in Smash Brothers."

At least more people here KNOW him.

Is that the hero from Dragon Quest 8? Do people just call him Eight?

Also, these forums are literally the ONLY place I've heard people bring him up.

 

[PsySmasher]

I mean, Verg didn't know K.Rool, Richter, Chrom or Dark Samus despite those names getting tossed around behind the scenes long before he even mentioned Ken.

Verg's info was only partial in the end.

True, he didn't predict everything and the things he did predict for the base game all came true.

The reason I'm bringing this up is Joker was a character almost no one was really talking about seriously, something that we really haven't seen minus Richter, but he was an echo for someone that Verg leaked from get-go.

(Now that I think about it, it's kind of weird that Vergeben knew of Simon, but not Richter; then again we don't know how long it takes to make echoes, so this point may be moot)

I know we're only 1 character into the DLC, but it still something to take into account.

In terms of DLC, Vergeben hasn't gotten anything right... yet.

 

[Shroob]

Apparently Corrin, Bayo, Lucas, and Roy all became literal whos overnight?

Despite Fire Emblem being a major series worldwide now.

Bayonetta 3 being revealed at a global event like the Game Awards and having been a recent Nintendo acquire at the time of her inclusion.

Mother 3 being a major fan want worldwide and him being a beloved Brawl veteran.

and Roy being a beloved Melee veteran from a beloved Nintendo series.

Yes, all literal whos who should have truly flopped at selling DLC.

And Fates arguably being the most hated game in the series.

And Bayonetta being ridiculously niche and financially unsuccessful.

Lucas was a 'literal who' in Brawl.

And so were Marth/Roy in Melee.


I honestly feel like you're being way too narrow minded here. "Give it a chance".



Especially because if Bayonetta 3 bombs in sales like I expect it will, that will probably mean the series will be put on infinite hiatus, and kinda make all this moot.

 

[Double K]

Apparently Corrin, Bayo, Lucas, and Roy all became literal whos overnight?

Despite Fire Emblem being a major series worldwide now.

Bayonetta 3 being revealed at a global event like the Game Awards and having been a recent Nintendo acquire at the time of her inclusion.

Mother 3 being a major fan want worldwide and him being a beloved Brawl veteran.

and Roy being a beloved Melee veteran from a beloved Nintendo series.

Yes, all literal whos who should have truly flopped at selling DLC.

>Fire Emblem
>Beloved series

Fire Emblem fans hate Fire Emblem, Roy's game still isn't here and he has only one alt in Heroes as opposed to Lyn and her 12.

OH, but Melee means he's internationally famous as opposed to the 20000 shows and games that reference Erdrick

And Fates arguably being the most hated game in the series.

And Bayonetta being ridiculously niche and financially unsuccessful.

Lucas was a 'literal who' in Brawl.

And so were Marth/Roy in Melee.


I honestly feel like you're being way too narrow minded here. "Give it a chance".



Especially because if Bayonetta 3 bombs in sales like I expect it will, that will probably mean the series will be put on infinite hiatus, and kinda make all this moot.

Bayo 2 only failed due to being on the Wii U. Switch versions are selling well

 

[UberMadman]

A Dragon Quest representative has as much chance as pretty much any other character to make the roster.

That being... maybe, I dunno. It's really hard to guess what DLC is going to be past this point. For some reason though, I'm really feeling Doomslayer.

 

[Noipoi]

The last few pages in a nutshell

 

[perfectchaos83]

>Fire Emblem
>Beloved series

Fire Emblem fans hate Fire Emblem, Roy's game still isn't here and he has only one alt in Heroes as opposed to Lyn and her 12.

OH, but Melee means he's internationally famous as opposed to the 20000 shows and games that reference Erdrick

Roy has 2 Alts. Valentines and Brave

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I'm the one being narrow minded.

Yeah, sure.

Sure. We'll go with that.

At the time most hated meant nothing and in fact it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things anyways.

Also in financial reports Nintendo seems to have no trouble with the type of success that Bayonetta has had. They seem to actually be okay with her level of success.

You're still talking about base game in terms of DLC choices. When we have been over the differences.

Like...I'm the one who is on a narrow minded one track road, but okay, sure.

 

[Shroob]

Roy's popular with the Smash fanbase.

If you wanted someone with actual MURICAN appeal, you'd go for Lyn or Hector... seriously I have friends who still rag on Hector not being in Smash, and considering just how many alts those two have in Heroes, their popularity is not to be undermined.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Also wow. Now apparently Fire Emblem is cancelled as a beloved series and even it's fans hate it.

I literally am giving up now.

The reaches.

The reaches are beyond Plastic Man and Mr Fantastic level.

 

[Deleted member]

Seriously, literally who the **** is this Mario guy?

 

[Deleted member]

Seriously, literally who the **** is this Mario guy?

Your uncle in Assasin’s Creed 3 or 4, i think.

 

[Noipoi]

What's even the problem here? A Dragon Quest character not having western appeal?

 

[Shroob]

I'm the one being narrow minded.

Yeah, sure.

Sure. We'll go with that.

At the time most hated meant nothing and in fact it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things anyways.

Also in financial reports Nintendo seems to have no trouble with the type of success that Bayonetta has had. They seem to actually be okay with her level of success.

You're still talking about base game in terms of DLC choices. When we have been over the differences.

Like...I'm the one who is on a narrow minded one track road, but okay, sure.

I mean, you kinda are.


My mindset is "Anyone can be DLC, Sakurai will make it work."


You're sitting here with "Well actually, he can't be because he won't sell well/isn't well known enough"

 

[vaanrose]

Okay, but that's not necessarily what the rest of America is going to know.

Just because you and I know, doesn't mean everyone else does.

Because you're placing a large group of consumers into this bubble that simply isn't true or possible. There's no way for a large chunk of common American consumers to know ''Oh yeah that makes sense because he's from, national holiday, blah blah."

They're just going to see a dude they don't know and either have one of two reactions. ''Lame. Next." or ''Who? Okay, they do look cool though."

And considering how ****** consumers can be you don't really want to risk a DLC choice like that IMO.

And none of the examples you or anyone have given come remotely close to that kind of situation.

This is why "*****, I look like Goku" is the opposite of a problem. He's eye catching to a large fanbase that doesn't even know he exists.

 

[Pokechu]

And Fates arguably being the most hated game in the series.

And Bayonetta being ridiculously niche and financially unsuccessful.

Lucas was a 'literal who' in Brawl.

And so were Marth/Roy in Melee.


I honestly feel like you're being way too narrow minded here. "Give it a chance".



Especially because if Bayonetta 3 bombs in sales like I expect it will, that will probably mean the series will be put on infinite hiatus, and kinda make all this moot.

I can see where Fisher is coming from. Fates still sold really well, I think just a bit less than Awakening? But since you could buy the other paths digitally then it might've made more money overall.

Bayonetta actually did relatively well for being on the Wii U, she hit around the one million mark and for a niche franchise that's not bad.

And Lucas, Marth, and Roy were all in the base game. If they were DLC it'd be different because then consumers would think "Who's he? Not buying" but that's not possible when all three are in the base game.

 

[Deleted member]

What's even the problem here? A Dragon Quest character not having western appeal?

I don’t even know.

And i like Dragon Quest.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Fire Emblem fans hate Fire Emblem,

*****, what?

 

[SnakeFighter64]

I like to imagine Sakurai decided on Mewtow, Lucas, and Roy by himself. Then Nintendo came in with Ryu, Cloud, Corrin, and Bayonetta the same way they did with Ultimate's DLC

 

[Tree Gelbman]

This is why "*****, I look like Goku" is the opposite of a problem. He's eye catching to a large fanbase that doesn't even know he exists.

If anything that also is a double edged sword because then you're just going to increase the ''Well they can add this stupid dude why not Goku."

Because you know there's some frat boy fool out there who is going to say it.

 

[PsySmasher]

Roy's popular with the Smash fanbase.

If you wanted someone with actual MURICAN appeal, you'd go for Lyn or Hector... seriously I have friends who still rag on Hector not being in Smash, and considering just how many alts those two have in Heroes, their popularity is not to be undermined.

You didn't exactly have that to go by when Roy was added in Melee.

He was added back in Smash 4 because he was decently popular within the Smash community.

And he's back again now because: "EVERYONE IS HERE" is the literal definition of the game.

 

[Roberk]

Sure, DQ may get a large proportion of sales from Japan, but that doesn’t mean it’s not a success elsewhere. It’s a million+ seller in NA, and DQ 11 furthers that by being able to compete with freaking Spider-Man in the month it released. It’s like Joker and Persona 5, while there are more Japanese that will be initially hyped as fans due to the nature of the game being a JRPG, it doesn’t mean that Joker/Persona 5 is insignificant everywhere else.

I haven’t played a single DQ game but from what I’ve seen it looks pretty cool as a series and I can respect its success and influence its had in the industry for the past 3 decades. I welcome Erdrick with open arms and I’m sure other Ultimate DLC customers will as well.