Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[UserKev]

You're welcome to your opinion, but I don't personally believe a last-second clone is indicative of any potential newcomer policy Sakurai does happen to have. I believe Sakurai doesn't give a crap about types, though. Especially if we're only talking about having one Pokemon who happens to cross over. It's not like all the Pokemon share a type or something. If Gamefreak tells him he should add X Pokemon, and Sakurai can rather quickly establish a vision of what X Pokemon could do, they'll be in regardless of fake type standards.
But I'm also the kind of person who thinks the vast majority of Pokemon have plenty of potential, especially fan favorites like Mimikyu.

.. I wasn't commenting on types. Just, if you can only imagine humanoid Pokémon as Smashers, your imagination is sucky.

I wasn't directing the pokeball argument to you. I was responding to them while quoting you.

 

[Starcutter]

If we are still talking Pokemon, I'm going to scream for Lycanroc again.

A quick, rushdown quadruped character is something I'd like to see. Lycanroc, Amaterasu and Spyro all fit this bill but Lycanroc is by far the likeliest

 

[Mega Bidoof]

*attempts to steer the topic in a different direction*

What stages are you hoping to see in Smash Switch?

- Bowser’s Castle
- Hyrule Field (just one of the many ruins in BotW’s Hyrule Field, with the dark Hyrule Castle in the background)
- Access Ark
- Ultra Space
- Studiopolis Zone

 

[CrusherMania1592]

A game that's at the end of it's life in Pokemon terms though. It's the last Mythical Pokemon for USUM, and in that respect, the least well-known Gen 7 Pokemon because it has had the least amount of exposure.

Corrin was the main character. Zeraora is essentially DLC.

But Corrin still made DLC as an advertisement for Fates. Zeraora can easily make an advertisement for US/UM and other mystical Pokemon types of events. Roy was put in Melee as an advertisement for the Blazing Sword game in Japan as his game was to come out shortly after Melee.

...I think Zeraora would make the first Mystical Pokemon to debut on the roster and I think that would be cool to have.

 

[Starcutter]

I still think a Snipperclips stage would not only be cool but I think would be likely as well.

 

[Luminario]

Decidueye has more moveset potential than Mimikyu IMO. You have a lot more material to work with from a Bird Archer who is also a ghost than a unknown pokemon hiding under a Pikachu costume. I also can't see a Mimikyu jumping around the stage like other Pokemon. It seems weird.

To be fair there's a lot that can be done with an eldritch horror in a sheet.

 

[SamuXCI]

I'm outta the loop when it comes to all these new Pokemans but Machamp as a Zangief style grappler would be kinda clean.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

What you mean to say is that Decidueye has more obvious moveset potential to you. There's a lot that can be done with an eldritch horror in a sheet.

That's not different from what he said. "IMO" means just that.

Anyway, Zeraora isn't a "main character" like Corrin is, so the comparison isn't that good. Both being DLC doesn't mean much alone. They're in very different situations. The legendary is hardly impossible, but I feel that unless it was a Greninja situation, it'd be either DLC(if anything) or a Pokeball. And even then, a Greninja situation is highly specific; Not just having interesting in a Gen VII newcomer, but Sakurai would also need to see the concept art and actually have a moveset idea right away. All 3 pieces are important. I could see him considering the Legendary early on, but the moveset part is still very important and kind of necessary at this point.

 

[Luminario]

That's not different from what he said. "IMO" means just that.

Yeah in hindsight I shouldn't gloss over abbreviations to defend my faves. My bad

 

[BluePikmin11]

I ended up making another comic. This time, it surrounds on Celica's potential addition in Smash:

Spoiler: Celica Comic

I loved doing this one.

 

[-crump-]

Kind of random thoughts that I wanted to share:

Interacting with casual fans in Smash speculation has me like:

Spoiler

Everytime I happen upon a speculation video on YouTube the choices that I see always throw me off. Like, I was watching an Arlo video today (great channel btw and I highly recommend most of his vids) where he insisted that Nintendo would be adding Waluigi, Daisy, and Paper Mario in the game, suggested that R.O.B and G&W were probably gonna be cut, and never even mentioned of the Smash Ballot or the big fan characters we like to throw around. The whole time I was thinking “But don’t you care about reps?!” “Noooo, Sakurai would never-“, and so on and so forth.

When it comes to speculating, I’m always huddled either here or on Reddit, where the fanbase is generally pretty close-knit and has similar ideas for newcomers. Going out into the wider world and seeing how other completely different fanbases talk about Smash makes me almost uncomfortable because of how different it is.

Makes me realize how small our K. Rool-worshipping, Bandana Dee-expectant fanbase really is.

But at least they too know the glory of Waluigi

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I ended up making another comic. This time, it surrounds on Celica's potential addition in Smash:

Spoiler: Celica Comic

I loved doing this one.

That last panel is the best part.

 

[Zeallyx]

Zeraora would be a great addition to the roster imo.

 

[Knight Dude]

Kind of random thoughts that I wanted to share:

Interacting with casual fans in Smash speculation has me like:

Spoiler

Everytime I happen upon a speculation video on YouTube the choices that I see always throw me off. Like, I was watching an Arlo video today (great channel btw and I highly recommend most of his vids) where he insisted that Nintendo would be adding Waluigi, Daisy, and Paper Mario in the game, suggested that R.O.B and G&W were probably gonna be cut, and never even mentioned of the Smash Ballot or the big fan characters we like to throw around. The whole time I was thinking “But don’t you care about reps?!” “Noooo, Sakurai would never-“, and so on and so forth.

When it comes to speculating, I’m always huddled either here or on Reddit, where the fanbase is generally pretty close-knit and has similar ideas for newcomers. Going out into the wider world and seeing how other completely different fanbases talk about Smash makes me almost uncomfortable because of how different it is.

Makes me realize how small our K. Rool-worshipping, Bandana Dee-expectant fanbase really is.

But at least they too know the glory of Waluigi

Well yeah, most casual fans are gonna go with what they know. Even we do here in a site based around the series. I wonder what weirdo freaks will in get this time around? Not gonna make any major predictions on that because it seems really counterproductive. Smash does bring in some more obscure characters and gives them a bit of time in the limelight. Of course we all like this guy or that guy from popular series too.

 

[-crump-]

I ended up making another comic. This time, it surrounds on Celica's potential addition in Smash:

Spoiler: Celica Comic

I loved doing this one.

I have to be honest Blue, I think you’re being a tiny bit close-minded on the whole Celica dilemma (hehe).

Robin and Celica have very little in common besides the fact that... yes, they both use magic and swords. However, Celica would make no sense using any of Robin’s specials, besides maaaaybe his side-b. Her magic spells look and act differently, and copy-pasting Robin’s moves that she can’t use in her game would feel like a disservice. Even using a Levin Sword would look weird for her. On top of that, Robin’s whole mechanic of weapon durability would have to be entirely scrapped, because Gaiden/SoV don’t even have weapon durability. I just can’t see Celica working at all as a Robin clone, or even semi clone. She’ll either get in as her own character, or she won’t get in at all (if Soccerguy doesn’t want more FE characters).

 

[Superyoshiom]

If we are still talking Pokemon, I'm going to scream for Lycanroc again.

A quick, rushdown quadruped character is something I'd like to see. Lycanroc, Amaterasu and Spyro all fit this bill but Lycanroc is by far the likeliest

I would really like Lycanroc in Smash as well. Your idea of his type of playstyle gets me hyped. The thing with Decieuye, Mimikyu, and Lycnaroc, though, is that none of those Pokemon had the popularity of Lucario or Greninja in their respective generations.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Well yeah, most casual fans are gonna go with what they know. Even we do here in a site based around the series. I wonder what weirdo freaks will in get this time around? Not gonna make any major predictions on that because it seems really counterproductive. Smash does bring in some more obscure characters and gives them a bit of time in the limelight. Of course we all like this guy or that guy from popular series too.

The biggest difference between YouTube prediction videos and here is that fans on YouTube speculate character likelihood without caring about when the roster might likely be finalised in 2016. Only people like us care.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I have to be honest Blue, I think you’re being a tiny bit close-minded on the whole Celica dilemma (hehe).

Robin and Celica have very little in common besides the fact that... yes, they both use magic and swords. However, Celica would make no sense using any of Robin’s specials, besides maaaaybe his side-b. Her magic spells look and act differently, and copy-pasting Robin’s moves that she can’t use in her game would feel like a disservice. Even using a Levin Sword would look weird for her. On top of that, Robin’s whole mechanic of weapon durability would have to be entirely scrapped, because Gaiden/SoV don’t even have weapon durability. I just can’t see Celica working at all as a Robin clone, or even semi clone. She’ll get in as her own character, or she won’t get in, because Sakurai doesn’t want more FE characters.

I think it is as simple as:
-Switching Elwind, Elfire, and Elthunder to a more powerful, but time consuming Seraphim, Fire, and Thunder.
-Switching the durability mechanic to a recoil mechanic, at least for specials.
-Switching most standard/air attacks to match her swordplay style in Echoes, making her more 'Wolfified.'
-Switching the Levin Sword to the Beloved Zofia.
-Making her overall running speed slightly faster than Robin, but lighter in knockback to compensate for her quicker/riskier/powerful playstyle.
-Making her Final Smash be similar to Robin's Pair Up, but with Alm fighting alongside Celica, comboing the opponent, ending the FS with an explosion.

I played enough of Echoes to get a good idea of how she could be a semi-clone of Robin. It is not ideal for Celica, but I personally think this is the best case scenario for her to get in Smash Switch.

 

[YoshiandToad]

So the mii fighter costumes (that could be potential characters) that were downloadable were:

Bundle 1:
Majora’s Mask (Skull Kid), Link (Already a character, Durban, X, Protoman,

Bundle 2:
Inkling (already a character), Heihachi, Akira Yuki, Jacky Bryant, Zero, Isabelle, Mega Man.EXE, KK Slider,

Bundle 3:
K Rool, Flying Man, Chrom, Lloyd Irving, Black Knight, Samus (already a character)

Bundle 4:
Toad, Captain Falcon, Viridi, Monster Hunter, Rathalos, Fox (already a character)

Bundle 5:
Chocobo, Geno

Bundle 6:
Knuckles, Takamaru, Gil, Ashley, Tails

-

So do you think being a costume increases a character’s chances? And does being a costume and an assist trophy add to these chances?

It wouldn't surprise me if Mii costume sales were used as a testing ground for interest in some characters they were considering.

K. Rool, Isabelle, Skull Kid, Toad, Geno, Takamaru, Ashley, Chrom(maybe) and MAYBE a second Megaman or Sonic character spring to mind as possible candidates alongside the now confirmed Inklings.

That said, for some reason I am struggling to imagine Chocobo or Akira being used for such a purpose. I'd hazard at least three or four more from that list make the jump to playable, but I'm obviously basing that off nothing but Smashboards popularity and discussion amongst western fanbases.

 

[Cosmic77]

Glad to see Lycanroc getting brought up. Feels like he doesn't always get the support he deserves.


Honestly, every Pokémon who isn't named Decidueye is being terribly underestimated. I get that starters are the easiest and simplest addition for Sakurai, but there's just no surprise or mystery in those decisions. I want to see more of those weird "Jigglypuff" and "Lucario" additions. Pokémon that totally make sense, but at the same time, would not be what we'd expect.

I ended up making another comic. This time, it surrounds on Celica's potential addition in Smash:

Spoiler: Celica Comic

I loved doing this one.

"Dear Lord, am I adding too many?!?!"

Sakurai, we already crossed that bridge in Smash 4. At this point, the Smash franchise should be renamed to "Fire Emblem and Friends".

 

[True Blue Warrior]

You know, come to think of it, why the Octolings as last-minute clone additions, BluePikmin11 ?

Glad to see Lycanroc getting brought up. Feels like he doesn't always get the support he deserves.


Honestly, every Pokémon who isn't named Decidueye is being terribly underestimated. I get that starters are the easiest and simplest addition for Sakurai, but there's just no surprise or mystery in those decisions. I want to see more of those weird "Jigglypuff" and "Lucario" additions. Pokémon that totally make sense, but at the same time, would not be what we'd expect.



"Dear Lord, am I adding too many?!?!"

Sakurai, we already crossed that bridge in Smash 4. At this point, the Smash franchise should be renamed to "Fire Emblem and Friends".

No, it should be Super Fire Emblem Bros!

 

[_Sheik]

If we are still talking Pokemon, I'm going to scream for Lycanroc again.

A quick, rushdown quadruped character is something I'd like to see. Lycanroc, Amaterasu and Spyro all fit this bill but Lycanroc is by far the likeliest

On top of being more iconic, Pokken shows that Suicune fills that niche pretty well already

 

[BluePikmin11]

I kinda wanna share my full thoughts on Octolings when they get rated in RTC, but the general reasons I include the character is that:

-The characters themselves are very popular in the Splatoon fanbase, much like Lucina.
-The Octolings share enough similarities to Inklings to be feasible for a last-minute clone.
-Octolings are getting a major presence in the Octo-Expansion in Splatoon 2.
-Given their relevant role in the Octo-Expansion, I think Octolings will be front-runner candidates for last-minute desserts.

The situation with adding Octolings would be sort of similar to Roy's addition back in Melee. Because of those reasons, I feel very confident about the Octolings getting in the Smash Switch roster. I personally feel more confident about Octolings than last-minute choices like Dixie Kong or Celica.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

On top of being more iconic, Pokken shows that Suicune fills that niche pretty well already

Suicune is far removed from the realm of relevance that Smash would likely be looking towards. Also, Pokken is its own game that uses exclusively Pokemon, so of course they're going to be pulling from all reaches of Pokemon. Lycanroc is extremely popular at the moment. All of its forms are present in the anime, especially Dusk. And they've been all over Rockruff and Lycanroc basically since they announced the generation.

 

[-crump-]

I think it is as simple as:
-Switching Elwind, Elfire, and Elthunder to a more powerful, but time consuming Seraphim, Fire, and Thunder.
-Switching the durability mechanic to a recoil mechanic, at least for specials.
-Switching most standard/air attacks to match her swordplay style in Echoes, making her more 'Wolfified.'
-Switching the Levin Sword to the Beloved Zofia.
-Making her overall running speed slightly faster than Robin, but lighter in knockback to compensate for her quicker/riskier/powerful playstyle.
-Making her Final Smash be similar to Robin's Pair Up, but with Alm fighting alongside Celica, comboing the opponent, ending the FS with an explosion.

I played enough of Echoes to get a good idea of how she could be a semi-clone of Robin. It is not ideal for Celica, but I personally think this is the best case scenario for her to get in Smash Switch.

I suppose I can see where you’re coming from now, and I apologize for calling you close minded in any capacity. That said, I still kind of think Sakurai has too much respect for individual characters to make Celica a Wolf-esque clone. I suppose if he was really passionate about the idea but just didn’t have the time, it might make sense, but there would be too much to adjust to add her as a last minute choice, as I see it.

Also, you forgot what is probably her most iconic spell, Ragnarok

 

[CrusherMania1592]

So what are the possibilities of adding two new Pokemon in this game?

*hids behind the trees*

 

[Cosmic77]

So what are the possibilities of adding two new Pokemon in this game?

*hids behind the trees*

*takes a deep breath

...Actually, two Pokémon newcomers isn't out of the realm of possibility. We could get a Gen VII Pokémon on the base roster and a Gen VIII Pokémon as DLC.

 

[Danpal65]

Kind of random thoughts that I wanted to share:

Interacting with casual fans in Smash speculation has me like:

Spoiler

Everytime I happen upon a speculation video on YouTube the choices that I see always throw me off. Like, I was watching an Arlo video today (great channel btw and I highly recommend most of his vids) where he insisted that Nintendo would be adding Waluigi, Daisy, and Paper Mario in the game, suggested that R.O.B and G&W were probably gonna be cut, and never even mentioned of the Smash Ballot or the big fan characters we like to throw around. The whole time I was thinking “But don’t you care about reps?!” “Noooo, Sakurai would never-“, and so on and so forth.

When it comes to speculating, I’m always huddled either here or on Reddit, where the fanbase is generally pretty close-knit and has similar ideas for newcomers. Going out into the wider world and seeing how other completely different fanbases talk about Smash makes me almost uncomfortable because of how different it is.

Makes me realize how small our K. Rool-worshipping, Bandana Dee-expectant fanbase really is.

But at least they too know the glory of Waluigi

Arlo is such a wholesome channel, especially the end of that particular video.

It is kinda shocking looking at the disjoint between the casual crowd and us, the devoted. Especially since what the casuals clasify as "likely" we either shoot down in flames or dismiss as a meme.

I think the big difference between casual speculation and what we are doing is that there is, like you said, less emphasis on time frames, but also they seem to be a bit more personal and based on likes (needs Paper Mario) and dislikes (ROB, G&W).

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

So what are the possibilities of adding two new Pokemon in this game?

*hids behind the trees*

I would actually give it a decent chance. Just like we're all over the place on which Pokemon to include, Sakurai might have been there as well. And with the level of iconic-ness being a little less impressive this time around from other options, two Pokemon characters might seem like a great idea.

 

[PeridotGX]

So what are the possibilities of adding two new Pokemon in this game?

*hids behind the trees*

Not bad, actually. It's too soon for a Gen 8 dude, so they could add a Gen 7 on in the base game and Gen 8 for DLC.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I would really like Lycanroc in Smash as well. Your idea of his type of playstyle gets me hyped. The thing with Decieuye, Mimikyu, and Lycnaroc, though, is that none of those Pokemon had the popularity of Lucario or Greninja in their respective generations.

I have to disagree and say Mimikyu fits that popular pokemon pic. It's super popular in Japan, blew up on the internet, and is receiving tons of marketing from the pokemon company and is a regular in the anime. Mimikyu is just not as popular or as discussed as Decideuye when it comes to Smash speculation, mostly due to that fact that Decideuye has more potential for a move set in a fighting game.

Mimikyu's downfall won't be it's lack of popularity or improtance to gen 7, but whether or not Sakurai can see move set potential.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I suppose I can see where you’re coming from now, and I apologize for calling you close minded in any capacity. That said, I still kind of think Sakurai has too much respect for individual characters to make Celica a Wolf-esque clone. I suppose if he was really passionate about the idea but just didn’t have the time, it might make sense, but there would be too much to adjust to add her as a last minute choice, as I see it.

Also, you forgot what is possibly her most iconic spell, Ragnarok

I like to think that Sakurai would not have time to make Ragnarok her Final Smash, compensating to copy Robin's FS, replacing Chrom with Alm with different voicelines. Kinda kinda like Wolf's FS: Landmaster when comparing Fox and Falco's FS. I think Celica would be the last semi-clone character developed for the game, much like Wolf in Brawl.

 

[Danpal65]

I would actually give it a decent chance. Just like we're all over the place on which Pokemon to include, Sakurai might have been there as well. And with the level of iconic-ness being a little less impressive this time around from other options, two Pokemon characters might seem like a great idea.

That being said I doubt we will see two Pokémon newcomers from the one region (Gen 7 for example). I could see us get a Gen 7 Mon and then either have a Gen 8 newcomer, or, Sakurai might pull a Pokémon from the past, maybe Black/White, Ruby/Sapphire or even Gold/Silver, they did have a Virtual Console release recently.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

That being said I doubt we will see two Pokémon newcomers from the one region (Gen 7 for example). I could see us get a Gen 7 Mon and then either have a Gen 8 newcomer, or, Sakurai might pull a Pokémon from the past, maybe Black/White, Ruby/Sapphire or even Gold/Silver, they did have a Virtual Console release recently.

Sceptile and Lycanroc would be dope if they were to take that route.

 

[Kotor]

I ended up making another comic. This time, it surrounds on Celica's potential addition in Smash:

Spoiler: Celica Comic

I loved doing this one.

Celica is nothing like Robin. Her game doesn't even have weapon durability which is what Robin has in Smash.

 

[Danpal65]

I like to think that Sakurai would not have time to make Ragnarok her Final Smash, compensating to copy Robin's FS, replacing Chrom with Alm with different voicelines. Kinda kinda like Wolf's FS: Landmaster. I think Celica would be the last semi-clone character developed for the game, much like Wolf in Brawl.

Speaking of Wolf, wouldn't it be cool if he came back to change his Final Smash to be the Hunter for of his ship? That way we would have Fox in the Bandmaster, change Falco to be the Arwing, then Wolf in the Hunter. Three different ships with different attack styles. It would be pretty rad.

 

[-crump-]

I like to think that Sakurai would not have time to make Ragnarok her Final Smash, compensating to copy Robin's FS, replacing Chrom with Alm with different voicelines. Kinda kinda like Wolf's FS: Landmaster. I think Celica would be the last semi-clone character developed for the game, much like Wolf in Brawl.

The thing about Wolf, though, is that he wouldn’t even exist had the game not been delayed to accommodate Sonic. Barring some substantial delay in the project, I just don’t think Sakurai would have time to create a “Wolfified” semiclone at the end of development like he did in Brawl. If we get more dessert clones, I can’t see them being more unique than simple model swaps like in Smash 4.

edit: lol, three quotes in a row. Sorry Blue

 

[Danpal65]

Sceptile and Lycanroc would be dope if they were to take that route.

That'd be awesome, but if he goes that route watch it end up being Decidueye and Pichu (although technically a Vet).

 

[RetroMetalSonic]

It's nothing important, but I had a dream that we got various news about the new Smash Bros.

Noteworthy parts were:

Adventure Mode returned (They showed footage of a level resembling the Factory area from Donkey Kong Country Return.)

New amiibo of every fighter (Mario, Inkling and Duck Hunt amiibo were shown.)

King K. Rool was revealed as a newcomer (That part got me excited, despite that his reveal was kinda done poorly.)

And a new playable character who would "break the old rules of Smash and open a whole new category of possible characters" as Sakurai put it...

Woody from Toy Story.

 

[Starcutter]

On top of being more iconic, Pokken shows that Suicune fills that niche pretty well already

I'm pretty sure Suicune is a projectile zoner if I recall. I'm looking for a rushdown character.