Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Noipoi]

I might as well discuss my picks with colored text and in-depth explanations.

Spoiler: This is long

Steve - Vergeben has mentioned we're getting Minecraft content of some kind, and I believe it'll be of the playable character type. Minecraft is a cultural icon, having sold 154,000,000 copies across practically every modern platform and having a monthly player base of over 91,000,000 players as of last month. This might not seem relevant, but this makes Steve one of, if not the safest choice for a DLC character. He'll sell like hot cakes no matter what, and his inclusion draws young Minecraft players into Smash similarly to how Mario or Pokémon might. Sakurai has talked about Minecraft and how much he enjoys it, and most importantly, Minecraft is the basis of a new cross-play partnership between Nintendo and Microsoft. Pretty convenient that all of this happened around the time Vergeben leaked that we're getting Minecraft content, huh?

Square Enix Rep - We're getting a Square Enix rep of some sort, but I have no clue who it'll be other than not Geno. There is a case to be made for many characters, but if I had to guess it's either going to be Sora or Erdrick in a literal 50/50 coin flip.

• Sora has one of the most anticipated games of all time coming out soon, and Sora's inclusion would be a perfect way to promote it further. Interesting statement is that the director of Kingdom Hearts 3, Tetsuya Normura said that he would work on a Nintendo Switch port when the PS4 and Xbox One versions were finished, which they now are. Of course, this could just be typical PR speak like when Nintendo said they wouldn't consider Smash DLC until the game was done, but then worked on Piranha Plant before that. Going back to Tetsuya Normura, he and Sakurai have a positive relationship after working on Cloud's inclusion in Sm4sh together, and it just so happens that Disney needs his permission whenever they want to use Sora. I believe that with Square Enix at their side, Nintendo has a good chance of negotiating with the Big D for Sora's inclusion, given that Nintendo and Disney seem to have a good relationship, and other negotiations could've tilted things in Nintendo's direction. That being said, I recognize that Disney can be difficult to work with, as stated by @NonSpecificGuy and @PlayerOneTyler, which is why I'm not as confident in his chances.
• I say Erdrick over Slime because Cloud got in over Moogle or Chocobo; he's essentially the Marth of his series. It's either Erdrick or a character named "Hero" that has skins referencing all of the heroes. Dragon Quest is immensely popular in Japan, to the point where there's an urban myth about a non-spoken Japanese law stating that games in the series have to be released on weekends so as to not disrupt Japanese productivity. Dragon Quest is Square Enix's second best selling and highest grossing series, only after Final Fantasy (and Space Invaders, but that doesn't count since it's an arcade game and not an ongoing series), and considering Sakurai's statement about there not being many "major globally-recognized franchises already featured in Smash," it would make sense for him to go after such a popular series. "But tehponycorn," you say, "Dragon Quest is only popular in Japan!" Yes, but Square Enix as of late has been making a large push to increase the series' worldwide popularity, and what better way to do that then release a Dragon Quest character in Smash alongside a worldwide release of Dragon Quest XI S? That being said, Dragon Quest has its own share of licensing issues and controversies, such as its composer being an anti-LGBTQ war crime denier, and the two other studios, Bird Studio and the Armor Project that Nintendo would have to negotiate with for a Dragon Quest character's inclusion.
• Honorable mentions go to Lara Croft and Chrono, both of whom are owned exclusively by Square Enix and are massive in their own rights.

Doom Guy - Nintendo and Bethesda have been on the up and up as of late, and they've spoken with Nintendo about Smash Bros. prior to DLC, which makes me thing that a Bethesda rep of some sort would be on Nintendo's character list presented to Sakurai. Sakurai makes an interesting comment about John Romero, the creator of DOOM, in the Sakurai x Normura interview, mentioning him alongside other important game designers. What makes it more interesting is that he mentions Romero alone as an "international" game designer, which stems back to his statement about series with worldwide popularity. DOOM is notable as being one of the first FPS games and revolutionizing the FPS genre, and has a place in gaming history. In a game that seems to be celebrating gaming as a whole over just Nintendo, DOOM Guy is more likely than you'd think.

Lloyd Irving - The Tales of series is another massive third party franchise with good worldwide popularity. You could even say it's a multimedia franchise as it's spawned multiple books, mangas, anime series, movies, and even a theme park attraction. Heihachi may seem like the more obvious choice, but Sakurai couldn't implement him in Sm4sh, and demand doesn't exist to force him to implement Heihachi similar to how he changed his mind on Ridley. I'll be honest and say I don't know as much about Lloyd or the Tales of series despite being a fan, so I refer to @VashTehStampede, who's made plenty of material advocating for Lloyd's inclusion, such as The Case for Lloyd, which is a good place to start.

Euden/Nintendo Promotional Rep - This is really a bone throw to Nintendo, as they're likely going to use one or two of the fighters to promote a new or upcoming IP of their's. Dragalia Lost makes the most sense to me as it signifies the new relationship between Nintendo and Cygames, who have been in negotiations recently if Hitagi is to be believed, and their push into the mobile market.

Colored text and explanations? I'm so proud!

I'll have to make a serious prediction later, a lot of people took my joke too seriously...

 

[SvartWolf]

Okay well maybe not no one. But majority of Poke fans wanted Decidueye. I remember. I always remember.

what? no, the majority of poke fans wanted *insert 8th gen grass starter final evolution here* , remember this, always remember this!

Regarding Roar? not big deal.. I still think that Lycanrock would been better... but even if i think Lycanrock would be better, that doesn't make Incineroar a bad character sometimes some fans need to understand that simple principle...

Zerarora on teh other hand ins just an electric lucario crossbred with a wolverine what a boring character

 

[kirbsmash]

Do you prefer Gaogaen?

A bit, yeah. But 'Roar is easier for me to think about.

 

[KarneraMythos]

Any thoughts on 'Roar's fans? (like me)

For the most part, they're pretty standard. I haven't run into anyone who runs afoul of a bad sport. Being a Heel might be in 'Roar's character, but the people here who support him have been generally Kayfabes at worst.

Also, I almost confused "'Roar" for an abbreviation of "Bloody Roar", lmao

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Colored text and explanations? I'm so proud!

I'll have to make a serious prediction later, a lot of people took my joke too seriously...

Hmm? What joke? Maybe I didn't see it? (I'm way to curious.)

 

[Dee Dude]

As a Grincher and Box denier, I really don’t understand why Incinaroar got so much hate prior to the Direct.

 

[Deleted member]

I might as well discuss my picks with colored text and in-depth explanations.

Spoiler: This is long

Steve - Vergeben has mentioned we're getting Minecraft content of some kind, and I believe it'll be of the playable character type. Minecraft is a cultural icon, having sold 154,000,000 copies across practically every modern platform and having a monthly player base of over 91,000,000 players as of last month. This might not seem relevant, but this makes Steve one of, if not the safest choice for a DLC character. He'll sell like hot cakes no matter what, and his inclusion draws young Minecraft players into Smash similarly to how Mario or Pokémon might. Sakurai has talked about Minecraft and how much he enjoys it, and most importantly, Minecraft is the basis of a new cross-play partnership between Nintendo and Microsoft. Pretty convenient that all of this happened around the time Vergeben leaked that we're getting Minecraft content, huh?

Square Enix Rep - We're getting a Square Enix rep of some sort, but I have no clue who it'll be other than not Geno. There is a case to be made for many characters, but if I had to guess it's either going to be Sora or Erdrick in a literal 50/50 coin flip.

• Sora has one of the most anticipated games of all time coming out soon, and Sora's inclusion would be a perfect way to promote it further. Interesting statement is that the director of Kingdom Hearts 3, Tetsuya Normura said that he would work on a Nintendo Switch port when the PS4 and Xbox One versions were finished, which they now are. Of course, this could just be typical PR speak like when Nintendo said they wouldn't consider Smash DLC until the game was done, but then worked on Piranha Plant before that. Going back to Tetsuya Normura, he and Sakurai have a positive relationship after working on Cloud's inclusion in Sm4sh together, and it just so happens that Disney needs his permission whenever they want to use Sora. I believe that with Square Enix at their side, Nintendo has a good chance of negotiating with the Big D for Sora's inclusion, given that Nintendo and Disney seem to have a good relationship, and other negotiations could've tilted things in Nintendo's direction. That being said, I recognize that Disney can be difficult to work with, as stated by @NonSpecificGuy and @PlayerOneTyler, which is why I'm not as confident in his chances.
• I say Erdrick over Slime because Cloud got in over Moogle or Chocobo; he's essentially the Marth of his series. It's either Erdrick or a character named "Hero" that has skins referencing all of the heroes. Dragon Quest is immensely popular in Japan, to the point where there's an urban myth about a non-spoken Japanese law stating that games in the series have to be released on weekends so as to not disrupt Japanese productivity. Dragon Quest is Square Enix's second best selling and highest grossing series, only after Final Fantasy (and Space Invaders, but that doesn't count since it's an arcade game and not an ongoing series), and considering Sakurai's statement about there not being many "major globally-recognized franchises already featured in Smash," it would make sense for him to go after such a popular series. "But tehponycorn," you say, "Dragon Quest is only popular in Japan!" Yes, but Square Enix as of late has been making a large push to increase the series' worldwide popularity, and what better way to do that then release a Dragon Quest character in Smash alongside a worldwide release of Dragon Quest XI S? That being said, Dragon Quest has its own share of licensing issues and controversies, such as its composer being an anti-LGBTQ war crime denier, and the two other studios, Bird Studio and the Armor Project that Nintendo would have to negotiate with for a Dragon Quest character's inclusion.
• Honorable mentions go to Lara Croft and Chrono, both of whom are owned exclusively by Square Enix and are massive in their own rights.

Doom Guy - Nintendo and Bethesda have been on the up and up as of late, and they've spoken with Nintendo about Smash Bros. prior to DLC, which makes me thing that a Bethesda rep of some sort would be on Nintendo's character list presented to Sakurai. Sakurai makes an interesting comment about John Romero, the creator of DOOM, in the Sakurai x Normura interview, mentioning him alongside other important game designers. What makes it more interesting is that he mentions Romero alone as an "international" game designer, which stems back to his statement about series with worldwide popularity. DOOM is notable as being one of the first FPS games and revolutionizing the FPS genre, and has a place in gaming history. In a game that seems to be celebrating gaming as a whole over just Nintendo, DOOM Guy is more likely than you'd think.

Lloyd Irving - The Tales of series is another massive third party franchise with good worldwide popularity. You could even say it's a multimedia franchise as it's spawned multiple books, mangas, anime series, movies, and even a theme park attraction. Heihachi may seem like the more obvious choice, but Sakurai couldn't implement him in Sm4sh, and demand doesn't exist to force him to implement Heihachi similar to how he changed his mind on Ridley. I'll be honest and say I don't know as much about Lloyd or the Tales of series despite being a fan, so I refer to @VashTehStampede, who's made plenty of material advocating for Lloyd's inclusion, such as The Case for Lloyd, which is a good place to start.

Euden/Nintendo Promotional Rep - This is really a bone throw to Nintendo, as they're likely going to use one or two of the fighters to promote a new or upcoming IP of their's. Dragalia Lost makes the most sense to me as it signifies the new relationship between Nintendo and Cygames, who have been in negotiations recently if Hitagi is to be believed, and their push into the mobile market.

Pretty much agree on all but Euden. Nintendo seems to want to avoid crossing Dragalia Lost over with Nintendo IPs, and said they want to focus on crossing over with other Cygames games. I think Nintendo would choose someone else over euden
(Also apparently there’s a contract in Dragalia lost preventing the ip from crossing over with Nintendo but I can’t verify that claim so idk)

I would elaborate, but it’s late for me, I’m tired and I need to go to sleep now lol.

 

[Noipoi]

Hmm? What joke? Maybe I didn't see it? (I'm way to curious.)

I said Chocobo should be in and everyone got really pissed lol
I think it'd be cute, but obviously I think Geno or Sora should get in before Chocobo, come on guys.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

As a Grincher and Box denier, I really don’t understand why Incinaroar got so much hate prior to the Direct.

probs Because its another pokemon

 

[kirbsmash]

As a Grincher and Box denier, I really don’t understand why Incinaroar got so much hate prior to the Direct.

Fire/Fighting even tho it's Dark. It's not Ghost Birb, and it's.....mixed.

 

[Deleted member]

As a Grincher and Box denier, I really don’t understand why Incinaroar got so much hate prior to the Direct.

Even since it was leaked, not many liked its design and the fact that it was bipedaland looked like another fire/fighting initially. Simple as that.

 

[Noipoi]

As a Grincher and Box denier, I really don’t understand why Incinaroar got so much hate prior to the Direct.

They hated him because he's beautiful.

 

[Luigi The President]

Look girl it isn't my fault Geno's still stuck in the roof since Bowser kicked him through a ceiling

Calling all Mario RPG Gamers; we gotta save Geno from the roof

 

[ThatOneAnon]

Why are people still predicting Steve and SE rep? Wasn't it basically all but confirmed by Hitagi those picks were leaker bait/from fake sources?

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

I said Chocobo should be in and everyone got really pissed lol
I think it'd be cute, but obviously I think Geno or Sora should get in before Chocobo, come on guys.

Yeah, I didn't see that xD

Speaking about Geno, I really don't think he should be in smash tbh. He's just a side character. Think about it like having the Pokemon roster, then randomly Bayleef.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Incineroar, huh?

Honestly I didn't think about him at all til the Pokemon talk came to be. Like I technically wasn't an active supporter, but I did root for him at times, same with the Decidueye too. As for Pokemon Sun when I started, I started with Litten. I had no dislike for Incineroar besides its speed, which is understandable as a bulky wrestler type. Well, it'd probably be troubling if it was Fire/Fighting instead of Fire/Dark, but that's not the point. I can understand now that each of the Gen 7 starters have a theme to it, from Decidueye's Archer style to Incineroar's Heel Wrestler, and finally Primarina's Opera Singer type. It's true that I probably would've wanted a speedy fire cat, I quickly warmed up to Incineroar, its expressions, and style. What would the theme of a 4-legged fire tiger cat be? I didn't think about that til today, but you get the idea. Wrestler cat is nice.

Back to Smash, my mentality says I really don't mind what Pokemon becomes playable as long as it wasn't yet another Gen 1 Poke, which was my greatest peeve (with the exception of Meowth who would easily have been deconfirmed). So here we are, Incineroar. I like him/her, and Smash potrayed him/her well with the moveset, the posing, and animations, even the slow speed. In the end, I praise tiger cat, and wouldn't mind trying em out.

Proud of ya tiger cat.

 

[Gyrom8]

As a Grincher and Box denier, I really don’t understand why Incinaroar got so much hate prior to the Direct.

The Gen 7 starters seem to have generated a lot of ****posting and rivalry (part genuine, part false-flagging) on places like /v/. Like moreso than usual. Decidueye and Primarina were better off than Incineroar, but they still got their share of hate too. I imagine Gen 8's going to be even worse in this respect.

 

[Noipoi]

Calling all Mario RPG Gamers; we gotta save Geno from the roof

Attention gamers! Geno needs YOUR help! Give Geno your credit card number so he can finally get in Smash!

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Yes , i found this leak on 4Chan.
Posted on a conversation about the leak, and JD shared it here.

If its fake or not, i don't care.

So what? People can bully us like a piece of garbage no problem just becouse its a leak found on 4chan?

Ima just pull this out again because it's still relevant.

Look dude, no one's telling you to leave or disrespecting you, but when you come here and attempt to derail the conversation by making fun of our conversation, and then us and then provide a more than likely fake leak and try to pass it off as true, and then say we're the bad guys when we understandably get mad at you, that's not cool dude. Can you understand where we're coming from here?

It's the same old story man. You come here and present us with a fake leak in an attempt to drum up Agumon discussion and it gets old after so many times.

 

[Luigi The President]

Attention gamers! Geno needs YOUR help! Give Geno your credit card number so he can finally get in Smash!

! CALLING ALL SMASH GAMERS ! Geno wants to join Smash, but the pesky Squenix Gang won't let him, and he's gonna need YOUR help if you want him to finally Shoot for the Stars! He's gonna need a Mii Costume, a player icon, and the 16 digits on your credit card, the 3 numbers on the back, and the expiration date. You gotta be quick if we wanna squeeze him in as DLC in time so he can get that victory royale and dab on all them Erdrickboyz! Yeah!

 

[ReeseBalaski]

As a Grincher and Box denier, I really don’t understand why Incinaroar got so much hate prior to the Direct.

Jealousy.

Don't you know? Incineroar is what peak Smash performance looks like.

 

[Noipoi]

The Gen 7 starters seem to have generated a lot of ****posting and rivalry (part genuine, part false-flagging) on places like /v/. Like moreso than usual. Decidueye and Primarina were better off than Incineroar, but they still got their share of hate too. I imagine Gen 8's going to be even worse in this respect.

It's because of Greninja. Greninja was the undisputed king of gen 6, leaving Chesnaught and Delphox in the dust. So when Gen 7 rolled around everyone scrambled to prove their starter would be the next Greninja. This resulted in arguments, **** posting, you name it. It'll happen in Gen 8 too.

 

[kirbsmash]

Give me one good reason why 'Roar isn't fitting for Smash.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

As a Grincher and Box denier, I really don’t understand why Incinaroar got so much hate prior to the Direct.

For most people, it was for one of two reasons

1. "There are too many Pokeymanz"
2. "It wasn't the Pokeyman that I wanted"

Not me though. As a guy who chose Litten as his starter in Sun & Moon, I was pleasantly surprised by Incineroar's inclusion.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

For most people, it was for one of two reasons

1. "Too many pokeymanz"
2. "It wasn't the pokeymanz that I wanted"

Not me though. As a guy who chose Litten as his starter in Sun & Moon, I was pleasantly surprised by Incineroar's inclusion.

Honestly, I always expected him or Decidueye.

 

[NobleClamtasm]

Give me one good reason why 'Roar isn't fitting for Smash.

Mimikyuu would have been way better. Think about it: we have 3+ marios, 3 Links and two Samuses. It's only fitting that we have three Pikachus!

 

[Gyrom8]

It's because of Greninja. Greninja was the undisputed king of gen 6, leaving Chesnaught and Delphox in the dust. So when Gen 7 rolled around everyone scrambled to prove their starter would be the next Greninja. This resulted in arguments, **** posting, you name it. It'll happen in Gen 8 too.

If we get a Gen 8 promotional pick for DLC the reaction could be;
- Bad, as it'll be another Pokemon and promotional picks can rub people up the wrong way
- But not as bad as it could be, because if it was the first we saw of that Pokemon (it could happen), it wouldn't have built up any sort of reputation like Incineroar did

 

[kirbsmash]

Mimikyuu would have been way better. Think about it: we have 3+ marios, 3 Links and two Samuses. It's only fitting that we have three Pikachus!

Raichu is....rather more fitted than Mimi.

 

[Deleted member]

Mimikyuu would have been way better. Think about it: we have 3+ marios, 3 Links and two Samuses. It's only fitting that we have three Pikachus!

You missed the 7 Marths in the roster

 

[Tako Tuesday]

As a Grincher and Box denier, I really don’t understand why Incinaroar got so much hate prior to the Direct.

He was honestly my most anticipated newcomer from very early in the speculation cycle. But then came the haters after verge said he was in, and Box Theory, and then the Grinch Leak.

All of that made his reveal not very exciting for me, but I guess I should've stayed true to myself and hyped him up more. At least I'm excited to play him now that he's in!

still upset about no Shadow though lol

 

[Luigi The President]

As a Grincher and Box denier, I really don’t understand why Incinaroar got so much hate prior to the Direct.

WELL HE HAS BIG HANDS AND HE HAS A STUPID DESIGN AND IT ISN'T COOL LIKE MEWTWO'S DESIGN IS

Had to hear this for months on end.

 

[NobleClamtasm]

Raichu is....rather more fitted than Mimi.

I do know that Mimikyuu had the merchandising advantage, but I would have been okay with any 'chu. If only Plusle and Minun made the cut in Brawl, we could've had 5 Pikachus.

You missed the 7 Marths in the roster

Right... how can I forget?

 

[Deleted member]

Was kinda hoping my AT idea would have gotten some traction, but it was lost in the shuffle.

 

[Dyllybirdy]

Mimikyuu would have been way better. Think about it: we have 3+ marios, 3 Links and two Samuses. It's only fitting that we have three Pikachus!

...But, I wonder, who could the third Samus be?

 

[staindgrey]

As a Grincher and Box denier, I really don’t understand why Incinaroar got so much hate prior to the Direct.

A combination of being the last newcomer and not being nostalgic. But in general, people coupled Incineroar with the box theory and hated the box theory. So less mature people couldn't separate the two.

Incineroar is hardly my favorite pokemon design or newcomer, but I've got nothing against him or his fans. I just don't plan on playing him.

 

[Noipoi]

WELL HE HAS BIG HANDS AND HE HAS A STUPID DESIGN AND IT ISN'T COOL LIKE MEWTWO'S DESIGN IS

Had to hear this for months on end.

Well now we can suplex the haters so it all worked out in the end.

 

[prowler12]

...But, I wonder, who could the third Samus be?

dark samus duh

 

[Luigi The President]

Well now we can suplex the haters so it all worked out in the end.

Yep! He got in Smash so they can get dabbed on

 

[kirbsmash]

WELL HE HAS BIG HANDS AND HE HAS A STUPID DESIGN AND IT ISN'T COOL LIKE MEWTWO'S DESIGN IS

Had to hear this for months on end.

Oh god yes.

 

[staindgrey]

...But, I wonder, who could the third Samus be?

SA-X. The best villain.