Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Deleted member]

Indeed. Square can be such a square...

But I thought it was hip to be square.

 

[Impa4Smash]

Yeah, maybe it was unfair for me to discount other franchises.

But my boi has been stuck with a double standard pretty much unique to him, which is the "Mario sub-series" standard. Wario and Donkey Kong escaped it.

When I said "even" Earthbound and F-Zero, I don't mean that they "don't deserve ATs."

I mean, they barely escaped it. Wario has one AT (RIP Kat & Ana), as does DK. And DK only got a new fighter because of immense requests and the ballot

At least Yoshi got a new alt costume

 

[Kingslime304]

Does anyone wanna do some sort of Team Meme Rushes online in Ultimate? Like sort of a recruit rush from Rainbow Six Siege?

 

[Zinith]

You know who else didn't get an Assist Trophy?

Cloud.

I mentioned that, and it's absolutely dumb that there's no FF AT

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I was disappointed that my boi got no AT, and I get met with mockery about it...

I'm in no mood for that

It's okay to be disappointed, and to express said disappointment.

But this is the umpteenth time you've complained about a supposed lack of representation for the Yoshi series. It gets tiring when you repeatedly do this and then treat us like we're the bad guys when we express how tired we are of it. Are some people immature about it? Yes. But it's still a valid problem that "don't like, don't engage" doesn't really solve.

 

[FantasyBlade]

What is the one thing you want to do with any newcomer when Smash Ultimate comes out?

I just want to play as K. Rool and play his classic mode

Although now that I think about it, I can't wait to set up a 1v1 K. Rool vs. Ridley Fan Fave Villain Matchup (on WrestleMania PPV)

 

[osby]

But I thought it was hip to be square.

It was in 2000s. Now people are moved to hexagons.

 

[Good Guy Giygas]

But I thought it was hip to be square.

Not when you're Square.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

So far characters that were likely scrapped.

Black Knight - Intended as an Echo of Ike but dropped due to animation issues in matching him due to bulky armor.
Shadow - Sega dropped out on the idea of his inclusion leading to him going back to his Assist Trophy status. He would had been an Echo of Sonic.
Rhythm Heaven character (Likely Chorus Kids) - Animation issues in how to have them function as a team.

 

[amazonevan19]

Remember how many years we had to endure of people saying Ridley and K. Rool would never get in Smash? Shadow only won't make it if people stop supporting him. I'm not dropping mine, if I got Ridley after all these years I sure as hell can get Shadow in one day.

As much as I'd like to share in that optimism, it's way easier to get highly requested first parties in than highly requested/expected third parties. Doesn't matter how much Sakurai wants him, how much the fans want him, if Sega's got their head so stuck up their asses they won't let him in, there's absolutely nothing Sakurai can do about it.

Ridley had to get over Sakurai not wanting him.

K Rool had to get over being dead. Idk if Sakurai disliked him or not, King K Rool was just passed over a lot.

The outcomes for Shadow are not good. Either Sega won't let him in, or Sakurai just dislikes Sonic. Maybe it's not even a dislike as much as Sakurai feels he's given Sonic "enough" representation with only one fighter. And if that's the case then no number of Smash games is gonna change that, unless we bust down his office door or something with our request. Let's not do that for real

 

[Luigi The President]

Yeah, maybe it was unfair for me to discount other franchises.

But my boi has been stuck with a double standard pretty much unique to him, which is the "Mario sub-series" standard. Wario and Donkey Kong escaped it.

When I said "even" Earthbound and F-Zero, I don't mean that they "don't deserve ATs."

It was unfair and it's why I reacted the way I did.

There's a reason Wario and DK escaped the sub-series standard.
Wario has 100% completely become his own thing. Wario World? Warioware? All of that, it's Wario. Not a Mario thing in sight. Not even Waluigi.
Donkey Kong has always been his own thing. There's never been any kind of Mario content in his games. He's always been just Donkey Kong.

Just about every Yoshi game has the goal of "you gotta help get baby MARIO home"

Mario is a constant presence in the Yoshi games. Yoshi's Island DS? Mario, Peach, DK, Wario, were all in there.

It's because Mario no longer has a presence in the DK games and the Wario games but still has a constant presence in the Yoshi games.

That's why imo Yoshi's "double standard" isn't an invalid thing.

And...

I was disappointed that my boi got no AT, and I get met with mockery about it...

I'm in no mood for that

Look man. You have to understand something. When it seems like I'm attacking you, then I genuinely apologize, I get what you're feeling, I'm a big Geno fan, I'm stressed about him for example, but

When it's like the literal eighth time in a day you're going "Well M Y B O I didn't get any [X] content" you have to understand why people are going to start cracking jokes about it.

Especially when, like I said, you were treating other franchises unfairly.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

So far characters that were likely scrapped.

Black Knight - Intended as an Echo of Ike but dropped due to animation issues in matching him due to bulky armor.
Shadow - Sega dropped out on the idea of his inclusion leading to him going back to his Assist Trophy status. He would had been an Echo of Sonic.
Rhythm Heaven character (Likely Chorus Kids) - Animation issues in how to have them function as a team.

So far unsubstantiated speculation.

We don't know if any of these characters were planned or not.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, maybe it was unfair for me to discount other franchises.

But my boi has been stuck with a double standard pretty much unique to him, which is the "Mario sub-series" standard. Wario and Donkey Kong escaped it.

When I said "even" Earthbound and F-Zero, I don't mean that they "don't deserve ATs."

DK and Wario haven't shown up alongside Mario outside of spinoffs in literal decades, meanwhile Yoshi shows up in mainline games frequently, and his own games cross over with Mario's far more than the other two, if they even do at all. Even though the standalone Yoshi franchise still gets games him representing his own franchise in Smash feels more like a legacy rule than anything. I can guarantee that if Smash Ultimate was the first Smash game ever released, Yoshi would be grouped with the Mario franchise rather than his own.

 

[Calane]

No, I'm with you on that. Sorry Calane , but DQ isn't my thing.

Lol, that's okay. I'm a huge DQ fan, but I'm not the kind to get all offended when others don't like it.

We're cool, my dude.

Though I'll never understand how people don't like a series as rad as DQ.

 

[Grunky Peep]

Yeah, maybe it was unfair for me to discount other franchises.

But my boi has been stuck with a double standard pretty much unique to him, which is the "Mario sub-series" standard. Wario and Donkey Kong escaped it.

When I said "even" Earthbound and F-Zero, I don't mean that they "don't deserve ATs."

I think it might have to do with the fact that Donkey Kong and Wario never show up in mainseries Mario games anymore. Yoshi shows up frequently in the Mario series, and as a result, he isn't really able to establish himself as a separate franchise like DK and Wario. It doesn't help that Yoshi's games also have frequently included characters from the Mario games. The line between Yoshi and Mario is very blurred, unlike WarioWare and Donkey Kong Country, which both have their own style of game, side-characters, villains, and identity. I'm not saying Yoshi doesn't deserve an Assist Trophy, it's just that there isn't enough to go off that couldn't also qualify as a Mario Assist Trophy, unlike characters like Klaptrap and Ashley.

 

[Noipoi]

Yeah, maybe it was unfair for me to discount other franchises.

But my boi has been stuck with a double standard pretty much unique to him, which is the "Mario sub-series" standard. Wario and Donkey Kong escaped it.

When I said "even" Earthbound and F-Zero, I don't mean that they "don't deserve ATs."

Let me preface this by saying I don't think Yoshi shouldn't have an assist trophy or anything.

I have a theory. In Smash 4 the fighters are ordered by series on the CSS, Mario with the Mario characters, Pikachu with the Pokemon, etc. However, Yoshi (who is labeled under his own series) in right in the middle of the Mario characters. While Dk and Wario are on their own. This shows that Sakurai may consider Yoshi as less independent from Mario than DK and Wario are. Like how the Mario World stage is a Yoshi stage, in Smash Mario and Yoshi are interconnected. Meanwhile DK and Wario have estabelished themselves enough to get their own content. My theory (which could totally be wrong) is that the devs see Yoshi as part of the Mario group so they don't bother giving him his own stuff because the Mario stuff works for him too.

But hey, that's just a theory. A Noipoi theory! Thanks for reading.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

So far unsubstantiated speculation.

We don't know if any of these characters were planned or not.

I'm aware. I'm just speculating who was most likely scrapped.

 

[Luigi The President]

So far characters that were likely scrapped.

Black Knight - Intended as an Echo of Ike but dropped due to animation issues in matching him due to bulky armor.
Shadow - Sega dropped out on the idea of his inclusion leading to him going back to his Assist Trophy status. He would had been an Echo of Sonic.
Rhythm Heaven character (Likely Chorus Kids) - Animation issues in how to have them function as a team.

Dixie Kong and Krystal are also probably possibilities as well being they were both planned for Brawl.

Nah.
Sakurai probably just didn't feel the need to make them Echoes.
It's bizarre but odd choice in our eyes doesn't mean they were likely scrapped.

 

[osby]

So far unsubstantiated speculation.

We don't know if any of these characters were planned or not.

We know. Sakurai outright said they didn't removed any character during development.

Also: chibi-bros ^^

 

[Grunky Peep]

DK and Wario haven't shown up alongside Mario outside of spinoffs in literal decades, meanwhile Yoshi shows up in mainline games frequently, and his own games cross over with Mario's far more than the other two, if they even do at all. Even though the standalone Yoshi franchise still gets games him representing his own franchise in Smash feels more like a legacy rule than anything.

Holy **** are you my twin? We literally typed the same **** at the same time.

 

[JacobLeBeauOFFICIAL]

Oh damnit to hell not on the day before Thanksgiving

If you would like to not get spoiled by anything Smash Ultimate/World of Light related, we'd HIGHLY recommend being cautious or possibly staying offline for a while.

There seems to be some word floating around of someone maybe having an early copy already.

— Source Gaming (@AllSourceGaming) November 22, 2018

 

[Kingslime304]

Megaman's Up-Air but it summons an upward platform instead of a whirlwind.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Lol, that's okay. I'm a huge DQ fan, but I'm not the kind to get all offended when others don't like it.

We're cool, my dude.

View attachment 179053Though I'll never understand how people don't like a series as rad as DQ.

Tbh I've never really played it enough to get a good feel for it. I'm not a big fan of standard turn-based JRPGs though, so I don't think I'd like it (I don't really like Golden Sun for this reason in specific).

If you think there's a good first game to play I'll definitely consider it though. I'm all for discovering new series.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Nah.
Sakurai probably just didn't feel the need to make them Echoes.
It's bizarre but odd choice in our eyes doesn't mean they were likely scrapped.

Still rather intrigued though to see what gold the hackers will find in Ultimate's database never the less.

The Rhythm Heaven character is most certain for sure.

 

[osby]

Oh damnit to hell not on the day before Thanksgiving

If you would like to not get spoiled by anything Smash Ultimate/World of Light related, we'd HIGHLY recommend being cautious or possibly staying offline for a while.

There seems to be some word floating around of someone maybe having an early copy already.

— Source Gaming (@AllSourceGaming) November 22, 2018

So dodging spoilers will be harder than preserving my childhood innocence in the adult world. *sigh*

 

[Luigi The President]

Still rather intrigued though to see what gold the hackers will find in Ultimate's database never the less.

The Rhythm Heaven character is most certain for sure.

Not certain at all either.
No real reason CK's couldn't have worked this time so Sakurai more than likely chose to not include them.

 

[Zinith]

Let me preface this by saying I don't think Yoshi shouldn't have an assist trophy or anything.

I have a theory. In Smash 4 the fighters are ordered by series on the CSS, Mario with the Mario characters, Pikachu with the Pokemon, etc. However, Yoshi (who is labeled under his own series) in right in the middle of the Mario characters. While Dk and Wario are on their own. This shows that Sakurai may consider Yoshi as less independent from Mario than DK and Wario are. Like how the Mario World stage is a Yoshi stage, in Smash Mario and Yoshi are interconnected. Meanwhile DK and Wario have estabelished themselves enough to get their own content. My theory (which could totally be wrong) is that the devs see Yoshi as part of the Mario group so they don't bother giving him his own stuff because the Mario stuff works for him too.

But hey, that's just a theory. A Noipoi theory! Thanks for reading.

I should note that the Yoshi's position in the CSS is the only proof of that. His stages are separate from Mario's and DK's in the stage select screen. His music has a separate list. He's treated as separate in some of the Events.

 

[Deleted member]

Krystal

I doubt Krystal was ever planned for Brawl in any legitimate capacity. She has no unused data, and Sakurai's comments on her read as if she was brought up briefly and then rejected.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Oh damnit to hell not on the day before Thanksgiving

If you would like to not get spoiled by anything Smash Ultimate/World of Light related, we'd HIGHLY recommend being cautious or possibly staying offline for a while.

There seems to be some word floating around of someone maybe having an early copy already.

— Source Gaming (@AllSourceGaming) November 22, 2018

Oh boy.....

 

[Robertman2]

Why is Yoshi even considered a spinoff series in the first place? Should be grouped under Mario

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Not certain at all either.
No real reason CK's couldn't have worked this time so Sakurai more than likely chose to not include them.

They were planned for Sm4sh so there's still the possible, I guess you're right though it is possible Sakurai decided to not plan them.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Oh damnit to hell not on the day before Thanksgiving

If you would like to not get spoiled by anything Smash Ultimate/World of Light related, we'd HIGHLY recommend being cautious or possibly staying offline for a while.

There seems to be some word floating around of someone maybe having an early copy already.

— Source Gaming (@AllSourceGaming) November 22, 2018

Be thankful if you manage to avoid spoilers lol

It's not KH3, so I'm not too worried about spoilers. Once January rolls around though, I'm disconnecting from the Kingdom Hearts side of the internet until I beat the game with my own two hands.

 

[Deleted member]

Holy **** are you my twin? We literally typed the same **** at the same time.

You know the old saying, great minds think alike

 

[Noipoi]

Oh damnit to hell not on the day before Thanksgiving

If you would like to not get spoiled by anything Smash Ultimate/World of Light related, we'd HIGHLY recommend being cautious or possibly staying offline for a while.

There seems to be some word floating around of someone maybe having an early copy already.

— Source Gaming (@AllSourceGaming) November 22, 2018

NO! Not Yet! Not Now!

 

[Impa4Smash]

Why is Yoshi even considered a spinoff series in the first place? Should be grouped under Mario

Oh boy

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I doubt Krystal was ever planned for Brawl in any legitimate capacity. She has no unused data, and Sakurai's comments on her read as if she was brought up briefly and then rejected.

I read she was but then he decided to use Wolf instead due to having a similar model as well as easier moveset (Due to copying) Fox. Maybe that was just a rumor I suppose?

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Oh damnit to hell not on the day before Thanksgiving

If you would like to not get spoiled by anything Smash Ultimate/World of Light related, we'd HIGHLY recommend being cautious or possibly staying offline for a while.

There seems to be some word floating around of someone maybe having an early copy already.

— Source Gaming (@AllSourceGaming) November 22, 2018

Sakurai: And on this day I give thanks for this installment remaining relatively spoiler free, with me able to...
Assistant: Sir, an early copy is out.
Sakurai: May you give me something sharper than a butter knife?
Assistant: Why sir?
Sakurai: -murderous twinkle- No reason.

 

[Grunky Peep]

Oh damnit to hell not on the day before Thanksgiving

If you would like to not get spoiled by anything Smash Ultimate/World of Light related, we'd HIGHLY recommend being cautious or possibly staying offline for a while.

There seems to be some word floating around of someone maybe having an early copy already.

— Source Gaming (@AllSourceGaming) November 22, 2018

OH JESUS CHRIST WHY.
THE ONE THING NO ONE WANTS LEAKED.
I JUST WANT TO ENJOY WORLD OF LIGHT.
WE'VE WAITED 10 YEARS FOR ANOTHER ADVENTURE MODE.
PLEASE DON'T.

 

[LetterO]

Not certain at all either.
No real reason CK's couldn't have worked this time so Sakurai more than likely chose to not include them.

That hurts even more than them just not working.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Oh damnit to hell not on the day before Thanksgiving

If you would like to not get spoiled by anything Smash Ultimate/World of Light related, we'd HIGHLY recommend being cautious or possibly staying offline for a while.

There seems to be some word floating around of someone maybe having an early copy already.

— Source Gaming (@AllSourceGaming) November 22, 2018

If this guy/gal is an hacker. We should find out about the unused content soon enough.