Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[KMDP]

Breh can YOU back up your claims of Earthbound not having survived due to Smash? Considering Europe only ever got the franchise as Smash until 2013 or something, I'm going to need facts that Earthbound's awful marketing campaign and the fact it was a critical and commercial failure when it first came out due to it's graphics didn't hurt it until Smash made people learn what a Ness is

Took the words right out of my mouth, Gwen.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

**** the FF7 Remake.

WHEN IS THE FF6 REMAKE?

When Half Life 3 gets announced

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

Smash Bros. “saved” Mother, okay. What of it? It also saved Fire Emblem and Kid Icarus, which are now seen as hugely successful and have more reps than Mother, and in the former case, more reps than even Zelda.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Ah, my favorite argument: "Zelda has loads of stages and few characters, so representation is ok." honestly sounds a lot like "The Zelda games are not about characters at all so we don't need to represent them."

I'm a Zelda fan, so I'd love to see more playable Zelda characters. I dislike that Zelda seems to be the only series bound by the "The character must make more than one appearance in a game" rule, especailly since some of the characters are incredibly recognizable. After all - I still see Majora's Mask logos all around Game Stop. I don't really see anything for characters like Lucas at all. Also "We got the triforce trio" implies that only the specific main characters are important - in that case "we already got the Mario core cast" tells us that aren't important. Or "Pokémon is only really about the trainer and characters like Pikachu!" Again, why is Zelda subject to restrictions the other series are not?

True, I don't want one champion over the others (unless it's Urbosa, but I'm biased in her favor). But the fact that Midna and especially Skull Kid, have recognizable looks and personalities. It is really annoying that, as big of a series as Zelda is, it's represented by three versions of Link (which are all semi-clones and only one has a unique few moves to reference one version), two versions of Zelda (both using completely original moves, one with some game reference and the other without), and Ganondorf (whose moveset is also clones from another character entirely)

No, it means the series isn't poorly represented in having tons of content.

It doesn't mean it shouldn't have more characters. To pretend it has little(content) is ridiculous. It has tons. It's very well-off in that regard.

Once you throw in Ganon, you have the trio properly represented with the bare minimum characters. Right now, the lack of him is the only thing making the trio feel incomplete.

There's a lot of other great characters. It's just hard finding stand outs. And ones that aren't already disconfirmed(Tingle and Skull Kid sadly are, two major ones that people want/actually are main characters in some way).

Also, only Piranha Plant and Daisy aren't all that important. Bowser Jr. and Rosalina have immense story importance and are very close to main characters. If you're going with that argument. Besides that, Dr. Mario isn't really important either. He's at best a quick addition and what, represents a Puzzle game? He's not the same as adding regular Mario.

I don't think I'm generalizing when that was literally the case back before he was revealed in Smash For. If we were talking about the Final Fantasy games on the NES/SNES, then that'd make sense, but people know VII before then as a PlayStation game through and through.

Of course Cloud was the obvious Final Fantasy character to put in, but because of the history that FFVII has, people didn't think it would be possible.

Nope, I thought he should've been the first one in if ever. Brawl would've had me fine with him too. And he's not even my favorite. Diablos, Thief, Black Mage(or Vivi), and Fighter are all who I'd take first, but I know who deserves it the most. Even Melee.

I never had an issue with this whole "must have connections to Nintendo" thing from the start. My fun Melee roster had Diablos on it, from FFVIII. He had no Nintendo appearances and is less connected than Cloud was at that point. I simply don't find the whole "Nintendo" thing to matter when making a good choice or for them being possible. It doesn't mean they're likely, though.

 

[Deleted member]

Seeing how the Secret Of Mana remake turned out, i prefer to see Square making more new stuff rather than remakes.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Took the words right out of my mouth, Gwen.

Bull**** that would imply any of you mere mortals can even come close to my levels of sass, including jackasses at work getting sassed on by me with no consequences other than awe from my colleagues

 

[CaptainAmerica]

To heck with that, where's my disgusting Kingdom Hearts alt?

View attachment 178320

I may think this design's nonsense, but the mod based on it is pretty cool sense the wing only appears during select animations.

Hey, I've seen worse JRPG designs. After all, he's only got 10 belts. There are some characters with more unnecessary waist accessories.

I'm not really a fan of any of Cloud's costumes tbh. Without the wing, this one does look halfway decent. Smash Cloud's face just weirds me out, and I can't explain why.

 

[blackghost]

An animated short with basically no plot and intending only to introduce a character to a videogame is not the same as a full length movie that would require a plot that isn't convoluted to hell and back because of the amount of characters to work with.

Oh, and before you bring up Subspace Emissary, no, its story would not sell for a movie, and it was never meant to. Its story was basically fanservice with a plot device to justify it, that was more to serve as a backbone to the gameplay of the adventure than anything else.

if they were to do a movie obviously it wouldn't be directly jst like brawl or a trailer. but you can tell a story without speaking characters. you can tell a comprehensive story not based on fan service with these characters. world of light trailer was incredibly short and people still found many subtle stories: sonic's now famous reach out to Pikachu, palutena attempts to shield pit and dark pit to escape, and more im sure.
We've already seen movies with more than 20-30 named characters (Infinity War) be successful when the writing is focused. would smash be my first choice for a movie? no either FE or Bioshock infinite would be but i dont think a smash movie would be dumb or just plain fan service. the characters in smash have personalities, quirks, flaws, dreams and hopes there is plenty to build a story with there.

 

[T3Z3R1]

**** the FF7 Remake.

WHEN IS THE FF6 REMAKE?

Too bad for you, FFVII remake will be finished by the time that PS8, Xbox 1025, and Nintendo swtich pro 360, featuring easy mode for every games comes out

 

[KMDP]

Bull**** that would imply any of you mere mortals can even come close to my levels of sass, including jackasses at work getting sassed on by me with no consequences other than awe from my colleagues

You're right.

I have much to learn in the sass department.

 

[RyuhoFox]

Going to have to arrest you for putting the idea of Fox having sex into my head.

You really think Fox wouldn't go after that Krystal booty at some point? lol

 

[Deleted member]

Hey, I've seen worse JRPG designs. After all, he's only got 10 belts. There are some characters with more unnecessary waist accessories.

I'm not really a fan of any of Cloud's costumes tbh. Without the wing, this one does look halfway decent. Smash Cloud's face just weirds me out, and I can't explain why.

It's far from the worst JRPG design, but even without the wing he's still got that bandaged sword. There's probably a reason for it, but I am clueless as to what that could be. My favorite Cloud design will probably always be his SOLDIER look though. I like his hair the best.

 

[Deleted member]

You really think Fox wouldn't go after that Krystal booty at some point? lol

One more criminal arrested.

 

[Deleted member]

You really think Fox wouldn't go after that Krystal booty at some point? lol

yes officer this post right here

 

[osby]

You guys are acting like this isn't canon:

 

[Deleted member]

No, it means the series isn't poorly represented in having tons of content.

It doesn't mean it shouldn't have more characters. To pretend it has little(content) is ridiculous. It has tons. It's very well-off in that regard.

Once you throw in Ganon, you have the trio properly represented with the bare minimum characters. Right now, the lack of him is the only thing making the trio feel incomplete.

There's a lot of other great characters. It's just hard finding stand outs. And ones that aren't already disconfirmed(Tingle and Skull Kid sadly are, two major ones that people want/actually are main characters in some way).

Also, only Piranha Plant and Daisy aren't all that important. Bowser Jr. and Rosalina have immense story importance and are very close to main characters. If you're going with that argument. Besides that, Dr. Mario isn't really important either. He's at best a quick addition and what, represents a Puzzle game? He's not the same as adding regular Mario.


Nope, I thought he should've been the first one in if ever. Brawl would've had me fine with him too. And he's not even my favorite. Diablos, Thief, Black Mage(or Vivi), and Fighter are all who I'd take first, but I know who deserves it the most. Even Melee.

I never had an issue with this whole "must have connections to Nintendo" thing from the start. My fun Melee roster had Diablos on it, from FFVIII. He had no Nintendo appearances and is less connected than Cloud was at that point. I simply don't find the whole "Nintendo" thing to matter when making a good choice or for them being possible. It doesn't mean they're likely, though.

The thing is that the huge vast majority of people, hell, probably almost unanimously, who try to think of characters for the roster always have the whole "history with Nintendo" factor, simply because that while we have a few guests, this is still a game about Nintendo's all-stars duking it out.

I'm not trying to say that you didn't think of Cloud and could work alongside other FF characters, course not. I'm just saying almost across the board people thought it wouldn't happen because of "muh console loyalty".

 

[CaptainAmerica]

No, it means the series isn't poorly represented in having tons of content.

It doesn't mean it shouldn't have more characters. To pretend it has little(content) is ridiculous. It has tons. It's very well-off in that regard.

Once you throw in Ganon, you have the trio properly represented with the bare minimum characters. Right now, the lack of him is the only thing making the trio feel incomplete.

There's a lot of other great characters. It's just hard finding stand outs. And ones that aren't already disconfirmed(Tingle and Skull Kid sadly are, two major ones that people want/actually are main characters in some way).

Also, only Piranha Plant and Daisy aren't all that important. Bowser Jr. and Rosalina have immense story importance and are very close to main characters. If you're going with that argument. Besides that, Dr. Mario isn't really important either. He's at best a quick addition and what, represents a Puzzle game? He's not the same as adding regular Mario.

But again, this goes back to "Why is Zelda supposed to be represented with only the main trio, while other franchises get other main characters?" Yes, Midna and Skull Kid are already assists, but why were they not considered for playability? That seems like putting the cart before the horse here - "they weren't considered to be playable in 2015 since they were assists in 2018."

With the BJ example - he was important in the story for Super Mario Sunshine. And he's been in spinoffs. He's not a core Mario character from the beginning. Midna was important in the story for Twilight PRincess (she was the title character). And she's been in spinoffs. She's not a core Zelda character.
BJ is playable, Midna's an assist.

And as a Zelda fan, I'd gladly trade a few stages and most items to get more Zelda characters.

Zelda and Fire Emblem are the two most unbalanced series in terms of representation. FE has a load of characters, and only three stages. Ultimate is at least fixing this by giving them several assists and an item. Zelda's got loads of assists, stages, and some items, but a grand total of three unique movesets, one of which is completely original. It honestly does feel like good Zelda side characters can only hope for assist trophy status, which the random Fire Emblem character du jour (who's not even released yet) is basically confirmed.

That's what I fins annoying about it. At least if we can't get new characters, I'd have taken Hyrule-Warriors style movesets for each characters, since that was a huge love letter to the series. the Dorf in Smash now looks better, but it still has overtones of "I don't care enough about this series to ensure that the characters are actually in character..." And if we still don't have a unique Dorf theme among the Zelda crew, it really makes it seem like this sereis is an afterthought.

 

[Iridium]

I did not make that post about Fox and think it would get taken so seriously. Please, people, have some mercy.

 

[Deleted member]

You guys are acting like this isn't canon:

It’s canon but I wish it wasn’t.

 

[Dyllybirdy]

You guys are acting like this isn't canon:

I really, really, hope that isn't actually canon.

 

[KMDP]

You guys are acting like this isn't canon:

Osby, they're canines.

Fox is just learning Krystal's smell.

 

[Noipoi]

You guys are acting like this isn't canon:

Can't let you do that, Star Fox.

 

[Deleted member]

It’s canon but I wish it wasn’t.

I really, really, hope that isn't actually canon.

What even is the Star Fox canon? Isn't Zero a reboot or something?

 

[T3Z3R1]

Osby, they're canines.

Fox is just learning Krystal's smell.

>fox is learning krystal's smell from her ass

Ok, that's enough for internet

I don't want to know that information when it comes to furries.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

delete please

 

[blackghost]

But again, this goes back to "Why is Zelda supposed to be represented with only the main trio, while other franchises get other main characters?" Yes, Midna and Skull Kid are already assists, but why were they not considered for playability? That seems like putting the cart before the horse here - "they weren't considered to be playable in 2015 since they were assists in 2018."

With the BJ example - he was important in the story for Super Mario Sunshine. And he's been in spinoffs. He's not a core Mario character from the beginning. Midna was important in the story for Twilight PRincess (she was the title character). And she's been in spinoffs. She's not a core Zelda character.
BJ is playable, Midna's an assist.

And as a Zelda fan, I'd gladly trade a few stages and most items to get more Zelda characters.

Zelda and Fire Emblem are the two most unbalanced series in terms of representation. FE has a load of characters, and only three stages. Ultimate is at least fixing this by giving them several assists and an item. Zelda's got loads of assists, stages, and some items, but a grand total of three unique movesets, one of which is completely original. It honestly does feel like good Zelda side characters can only hope for assist trophy status, which the random Fire Emblem character du jour (who's not even released yet) is basically confirmed.

That's what I fins annoying about it. At least if we can't get new characters, I'd have taken Hyrule-Warriors style movesets for each characters, since that was a huge love letter to the series. the Dorf in Smash now looks better, but it still has overtones of "I don't care enough about this series to ensure that the characters are actually in character..." And if we still don't have a unique Dorf theme among the Zelda crew, it really makes it seem like this sereis is an afterthought.

i agree with you. in terms of representation of characters, FE and zelda have both been ****ed over. there should be another zelda character by now. i'd personally like midna in either form or impa or skull kid. FE they simply shouldn't all be so similar. FE at this point should get its own summoning item like a pokeball except it calls forth a FE character. It could be a green, red, or blue, or colorless orb. but zelda is too large to not receive proper representation at this point.

 

[KMDP]

>fox is learning krystal's smell from her ***

Ok, that's enough for internet

I don't want to know that information when it comes to furries.

That's not Furry info.

That's just straight up biology.

Dogs sniff each others butts to learn about each other.

 

[MysticKnives]

Why does no one bring up Mother when making accusations of Sakubias? Does some old, forgotten, niche JRPG trinity really "deserve" to have as many reps as Animal Crossing? I smell a lot of bias from the people who tend to accuse Sakurai of bias themselves.

Disclaimer: I don't actually mind that Earthbound has two "reps", I've always thought arguments of "deservingness" were a little silly.

Many seem to be more chill with Mother and probably feel what it gets isn’t “too much”. Though yes, he has Mother bias as it could have gotten way less than it does (2 characters, 4 stages, a few items with getting a new one this game, had a boss in Porky, AT in Starman). I have no problem with it. Love Mother.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The thing is that the huge vast majority of people, hell, probably almost unanimously, who try to think of characters for the roster always have the whole "history with Nintendo" factor, simply because that while we have a few guests, this is still a game about Nintendo's all-stars duking it out.

I'm not trying to say that you didn't think of Cloud and could work alongside other FF characters, course not. I'm just saying almost across the board people thought it wouldn't happen because of "muh console loyalty".

You literally said nobody thought he would be in. That's not true, is the point. You were generalizing. I called you out on it.

Anyway, the All-Stars thing was dropped a long time ago. The history with Nintendo crap was never a required factor, no matter how many people try to deny it. Yes, some care. Sakurai doesn't. On the other hand, Nintendo might care.

But again, this goes back to "Why is Zelda supposed to be represented with only the main trio, while other franchises get other main characters?" Yes, Midna and Skull Kid are already assists, but why were they not considered for playability? That seems like putting the cart before the horse here - "they weren't considered to be playable in 2015 since they were assists in 2018."

With the BJ example - he was important in the story for Super Mario Sunshine. And he's been in spinoffs. He's not a core Mario character from the beginning. Midna was important in the story for Twilight PRincess (she was the title character). And she's been in spinoffs. She's not a core Zelda character.
BJ is playable, Midna's an assist.

And as a Zelda fan, I'd gladly trade a few stages and most items to get more Zelda characters.

Zelda and Fire Emblem are the two most unbalanced series in terms of representation. FE has a load of characters, and only three stages. Ultimate is at least fixing this by giving them several assists and an item. Zelda's got loads of assists, stages, and some items, but a grand total of three unique movesets, one of which is completely original. It honestly does feel like good Zelda side characters can only hope for assist trophy status, which the random Fire Emblem character du jour (who's not even released yet) is basically confirmed.

That's what I fins annoying about it. At least if we can't get new characters, I'd have taken Hyrule-Warriors style movesets for each characters, since that was a huge love letter to the series. the Dorf in Smash now looks better, but it still has overtones of "I don't care enough about this series to ensure that the characters are actually in character..." And if we still don't have a unique Dorf theme among the Zelda crew, it really makes it seem like this sereis is an afterthought.

Fire Emblem actually has little item options, and has main characters every game. It's pretty well-represented for what it can do.

The Zelda series has plain more content, and it just could use a few more stand-out characters.

I'll be frank; I never thought Midna nor Skull Kid were a good idea for Smash either. They never stood out as easy options. Bowser Jr. did by being a main character in more than one game. He also had tons of abilities with his paintbrush.

Now that's more my fault; I never felt anyone but the core trio, Tingle, and Impa really should've been playable.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

That's not Furry info.

That's just straight up biology.

Dogs sniff each others butts to learn about each other.

How do we even get into conversations like this on the Super Smash Bros Ultimate discussion thread of all things?

 

[T3Z3R1]

That's not Furry info.

That's just straight up biology.

Dogs sniff each others butts to learn about each other.

I know about that, even I saw my dog smelling some dog' back when I am at home.
But boy, just imagine when real life furries are smelling each other's ass

THAT, i don't want to imagine.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

That's not Furry info.

That's just straight up biology.

Dogs sniff each others butts to learn about each other.

I mean tbf your avi being a fox kinda makes it worse.
Also y'all talking **** about furries yet our competitive scene is gonna be dominated by one if Sonicfox decides Smash is worthy of his regime

 

[ZephyrZ]

It honestly does feel like good Zelda side characters can only hope for assist trophy status, which the random Fire Emblem character du jour (who's not even released yet) is basically confirmed.

If we get another FE character as DLC, I'll eat my hat. And I don't even have a hat.

No seriously though, the only reason a new FE person is "confirmed" is because of fan rules and assumptions. I'm a big FE fan myself but I won't believe we're getting a new Three Houses character until we see them.

 

[Deleted member]

Also y'all talking **** about furries yet our competitive scene is gonna be dominated by one if Sonicfox decides Smash is worthy of his regime

Oh boy, can't wait for him to switch controller ports at EVO grand finals!

 

[Noipoi]

*Notices thread topic*
OwO what's this?

 

[Iridium]

How do we even get into conversations like this on the Super Smash Bros Ultimate discussion thread of all things?

When we post things. Definitely when we post things here.

 

[Raxxel]

if they were to do a movie obviously it wouldn't be directly jst like brawl or a trailer. but you can tell a story without speaking characters. you can tell a comprehensive story not based on fan service with these characters. world of light trailer was incredibly short and people still found many subtle stories: sonic's now famous reach out to Pikachu, palutena attempts to shield pit and dark pit to escape, and more im sure.
We've already seen movies with more than 20-30 named characters (Infinity War) be successful when the writing is focused. would smash be my first choice for a movie? no either FE or Bioshock infinite would be but i dont think a smash movie would be dumb or just plain fan service. the characters in smash have personalities, quirks, flaws, dreams and hopes there is plenty to build a story with there.

Those aren't stories. They are details. Sonic's reach to Pikachu is not a story, it's a detail in reference to a characteristic of his. Same with Palutena. I'm not sure how you call them a story. It's true that you can tell a story without speaking. But as a feature length film with a roster even the size of Melee's? I should remind you, Infinity War took about a decade to build up to. Before then, we had so many movies explaining and developing the characters within the film, the only exception being Thanos, and surprise, a lot of the movie was focused on who he was. You show someone, who has never seen an MCU movie, Infinity War, they will have no clue what is going on because they'll know nothing about the characters save for maybe the more popular ones. Infinity War also works because the characters were made in the same universe and are consistent with each other. Compare that to a Smash Brothers movie, where all of the characters, a lot who were made in completely different universes from each other, just happen to be thrown in with each other. Even if you take a step back, World of Light's trailer gives no explanation as to how or why these characters are together. We accept this as normal because why the hell should we care, we're not that invested in the actual plot and just want an adventure. But that doesn't work for a non-interactable medium like a movie. You need plot and structure in a movie, which is impossible from a game that basically has next to no plot or structure. A Smash Bros movie would basically be like Toy Story if it never got meta and we only saw Andy's adventures with the toys.

 

[KMDP]

I mean tbf your avi being a fox kinda makes it worse.
Also y'all talking **** about furries yet our competitive scene is gonna be dominated by one if Sonicfox decides Smash is worthy of his regime

I am in no way a Furry.

I was just making a joke about that image.

 

[T3Z3R1]

How do we even get into conversations like this on the Super Smash Bros Ultimate discussion thread of all things?

Blame our minds for starting some conversations like this sometimes.

Like that time where we discussed Katalina as new potential character, and Luigi The President straight up called her hot because of her boobs which leads to jokes about boobs.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I am in no way a Furry.

I was just making a joke about that image.

Your avatar implies otherwise.

Anyway, Krystal was legit one of my favorite Star Fox additions. Though thanks to GoldenYuuitisin's influence, I've had more interest in Slippy than before.