Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Tree Gelbman]

Reminder that we got Megaman and Classic Pac-Man mostly because Sakurai demanded them and not for fan demand.

What heathen would want anything else than the classic iteration of Pac Man? And technically even that's not true. He's a bit more Pac Man World than Classic Pac.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Series like Kirby (and Zelda) are actually underrepresented relative to their popularity. The only Sakurai bias towards Kirby seems to be that Kirby stuff is always prominent in the story modes, and the only Kirby stages, assists, items, and enemies are from games he directed. Realistically, we should have gotten Bandana Dee and maybe even Marx by now. And Zelda should have gotten a couple more too.

Also Chibi-Robo was robbed.

Eh, not exactly. The Zelda series has tons of trophies(and now Spirits), music, stages, a decent amount of items, and had tons of Stickers too. Plus lots of NPC enemies in Adventure Mode in Melee. More than some series too. It's pretty well represented in terms of having lots of content.

It's not varied for the playable characters, but to be honest, the only major one missing is Ganon right now for the trio. Then you have lots of viable choices, though I doubt he'll throw in more than 1 at this point(which completely kills the Champions as is for options, but still at least helps ones like Tingle, Ganon, and Impa. And maybe Vaati too?). I'd say Skull Kid, but... and obviously Tingle is disconfirmed technically, so I guess that leaves Ganon and Impa for choices at the moment?

Fire Emblem, Kid Icarus and Star Fox also had lucky circumstances but it didn't prevented fans from complaining about them.

For the record, I don't think Sakurai has more bias for Mother than, say, Punch-Out but it doesn't change that it got plenty of love for such a small series and everyone is okay with it.

True. It's kind of ridiculous.

 

[KMDP]

You know what I'm not even mad you made this joke.
Especially cause Charlotte here is sexualization done right imo

Charlotte is among the best characters in Fates.

Of course, that's just my opinion.

>Mother
>old, forgetten, nich JRPG

Yeah, right! Without it, we wouldn't have Homestuck, Undertale, and Delta rune!

OH.
WAIT.

Mother wouldn't have truly gotten off the ground outside of Japan without Smash Bros. (especially in Europe, where it wasn't released at all during it's initial release window).

While it's not forgotten, it is old (no new releases in 12 years) and niche (a quirky RPG series), this is inarguable.

 

[Deleted member]

You know, Sakurai bias isn't very common but when it's present it's rampant. His most notable bias is to this series called Super Smash Bros, and all he ever does is add characters from that game. It's insane! It's a super niche franchise and wouldn't be what it is right now without reps in Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

Was I wrong though? Not to throw shade at the Mother series, but it isn't exactly Nintendo's most profitable franchise.

Other franchises aren't exactly "Nintendo's most profitable" either. Look at WarioWare, yet Gold was a surprise hit.

Nintendo's profits doesn't equate to overall status as a franchise. If EarthBound was "forgotten", I don't think we'd have a dedicated AVGN episode on it, literally half the reason for Undertale's inspiration, "WHERE'S MOTHER 3???", on the top 10 of every "best RPG" lists, the list goes on.

Profits =/= popularity.

 

[osby]

SMash 4 DLCs were really surprising though . Bayo? Cloud? Ryu? U expected them ? No...

Yeah, but they are hardly Piranha Plant level surprises.

 

[Deleted member]

What heathen would want anything else than the classic iteration of Pac Man? And technically even that's not true. He's a bit more Pac Man World than Classic Pac.

I find it more like a mix of classic and World Pac-Man.

And he confirmed in an interview that Pac-Man could have been scrapped from 4 if he was forced to use the Ghostly Adventures design instead of the classic one.

 

[Deleted member]

Umm....
Have you even look at Lord English and then compare him to gigyas? he's basically idiot with so much power

...you're right. Caliborn even does a bunch of timey-wimey bull**** through the story like Gigyas did for a bit! And he's like this all powerful evil force of nature/destiny or whatever. man I need to reread homestuck

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Give me Sackboy.

Give me Parappa

Sonic '06 stage with Silver as the hazard.

"It's no use!"

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, but they are hardly Piranha Plant level surprises.

Okay, you cannot tell me with a straight face that Cloud Strife from Final Fantasy VII, the game that was notorious for the break-up between Nintendo and Sony and back then, has never appeared on a Nintendo console, joining Smash Bros. had less impact than Piranha Plant's reveal.

Come on, mate.

 

[Chandeelure]

A Jambastion stage with the three mages as stage hazards. Boom, easy stage. Hire me Sakurai~

Sakurai:
What is a Jambastion? Don't you prefer Milky Way Wishes from Kirby Super Star as a stage? I will come with 3 more Green Greens remixes.

 

[T3Z3R1]

Mother wouldn't have truly gotten off the ground outside of Japan without Smash Bros. (especially in Europe, where it wasn't released at all during it's initial release window).

While it's not forgotten, it is old (no new releases in 12 years) and niche (a quirky RPG series), this is inarguable.

But Mother's sequel did managed to get release in US, and two decades later, Mother rebranded as Earthbound: the Beginnings was released on Virtual Console. so I'll consider that it's some of cult classic among the players who got SNES back in 1990s.

Strange thing is that we didn't have Mother 3 USA release, and I really wished for Mother Trilogy to be released on 3ds or switch.

 

[ErenJager]

Give me Parappa"

Give me sir daniel fortesque

 

[Deleted member]

Okay, you cannot tell me with a straight face that Cloud Strife from Final Fantasy VII, the game that was notorious for the break-up between Nintendo and Sony and back then, has never appeared on a Nintendo console, joining Smash Bros. had less impact than Piranha Plant's reveal.

Come on, mate.

He appeared in FF Tacticts for GBA and some of the Kingdom Hearts games for portable Nintendo consoles.

 

[osby]

Okay, you cannot tell me with a straight face that Cloud Strife from Final Fantasy VII, the game that was notorious for the break-up between Nintendo and Sony and back then, has never appeared on a Nintendo console, joining Smash Bros. had less impact than Piranha Plant's reveal.

Come on, mate.

Maybe "level" was the wrong choice of words. "Style"?

At least people wanted Cloud as playable and knew he can work in Smash.

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

Yeah, but they are hardly Piranha Plant level surprises.

Piranha Plant is almost like the Shuma Gorath of Smash in terms of design and being an extremely unexpected choice.

 

[Ring-a-Sheep]

...you're right. Caliborn even does a bunch of timey-wimey bull**** through the story like Gigyas did for a bit! And he's like this all powerful evil force of nature/destiny or whatever. man I need to reread homestuck

I see homestuck still plagues this earth even in the year 2018

Spoiler

this is jokes

 

[Deleted member]

I see homestuck still plagues this earth even in the year 2018

Spoiler

this is jokes

Spoiler

vriska did nothing wrong

 

[KMDP]

But Mother's sequel did managed to get release in US, and few years later, Mother rebranded as Earthbound: the Beginnings was released on Virtual Console. so I'll consider that it's some of cult classic among the players who got SNES back in 1990s.

Strange thing is that we didn't have Mother 3 USA release, and I really wished for Mother Trilogy to be released on 3ds or switch.

"A few years later"

2 Decades is a "few years"?

Earthbound/Mother 2 was a complete unknown to every location but America and Japan until Smash came along, and even it's initial release in America was unsuccessful.

Smash Bros. saved the series.

 

[Deleted member]

Maybe "level" was the wrong choice of words. "Style"?

At least people wanted Cloud as playable and knew he can work in Smash.

Knowing that back then in 2015, the Final Fantasy VII Remake was on a direct competitor's console and that game is solely known for being a PlayStation IP? Add on the fact with how expensive using the IP's liscense is, people could think of ways of how he could work in Smash, but nobody ever thought he would ever join the roster.

He appeared in FF Tacticts for GBA and some of the Kingdom Hearts games for portable Nintendo consoles.

I said for Final Fantasy VII, not the cameos.

 

[Deleted member]

Knowing that back then, the Final Fantasy VII Remake was on a direct competitor's console and that game is solely known for being a PlayStation IP? Add on the fact with how expensive using the liscense for the IP, people could think of ways of how he could work in Smash, but nobody ever thought he would ever join the roster.



I said for Final Fantasy VII, not the cameos.

Then i can kind of see your point.

 

[Idon]

**** the FF7 Remake.

WHEN IS THE FF6 REMAKE?

 

[osby]

Knowing that back then in 2015, the Final Fantasy VII Remake was on a direct competitor's console and that game is solely known for being a PlayStation IP? Add on the fact with how expensive using the IP's liscense is, people could think of ways of how he could work in Smash, but nobody ever thought he would ever join the roster.



I said for Final Fantasy VII, not the cameos.

I'm not saying people were expecting him. I'm just saying people were at least aware he was a possibility. If "nobody ever thought he would ever join the roster", he wouldn't be a requested character in the first place, Smash fans aren't that stupid.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Knowing that back then in 2015, the Final Fantasy VII Remake was on a direct competitor's console and that game is solely known for being a PlayStation IP? Add on the fact with how expensive using the IP's liscense is, people could think of ways of how he could work in Smash, but nobody ever thought he would ever join the roster.

Him joining the roster was unpopular as an idea.

I thought he was going to join because I thought Cloud had a strong chance if any FF character would get in. I didn't find him being in even surprising so much as exciting. I knew he was the obvious choice. I also knew that him being "important to Nintendo" was a load of crock too. That wasn't what was important. The character himself was all that mattered.

So basically you're generalizing a bit too much.

 

[T3Z3R1]

"A few years later"

2 Decades is a "few years"?

Earthbound/Mother 2 was a complete unknown to every location but America and Japan until Smash came along, and even it's initial release in America was unsuccessful.

Smash Bros. saved the series.

>Smash Bros. saved the series
lemme quote Will

 

[Ring-a-Sheep]

**** the FF7 Remake.

WHEN IS THE FF6 REMAKE?

Don't worry we'll get it after FF7 Remake releases in 3041

 

[Deleted member]

I'm not saying people were expecting him. I'm just saying people were at least aware he was a possibility. If "nobody ever thought he would ever join the roster", he wouldn't be a requested character in the first place, Smash fans aren't that stupid.

The only thing that i didn’t expect from him was the Advent Children alt.

I don’t remember any other reference to movies based on games in Smash (Goldeneye doesn’t count because it is a game based on a movie, and not the other way around).

 

[Dyllybirdy]

**** the FF7 Remake.

WHEN IS THE FF6 REMAKE?

Expect it, sometime in the next few millennia...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The only thing that i didn’t expect from him was the Advent Children alt.

I don’t remember any other reference to movies based on games in Smash (Goldeneye doesn’t count because it is a game based on a movie, and not the other way around).

We have anime Pokemon references.

I also expected that alt. Hell, I am disappointed that an Advent Children game still doesn't exist.

The only alt not there I was hoping for is the dress alt. However, now I see why; it'd mess with the hitbox. Thus, not feasible. That's ignoring Square being stingy.

 

[Deleted member]

The only thing that i didn’t expect from him was the Advent Children alt.

I don’t remember any other reference to movies based on games in Smash (Goldeneye doesn’t count because it is a game based on a movie, and not the other way around).

The Pokemon tend to be based off of their anime versions, with Mewtwo being based on Movie 1 Mewtwo and Lucario being based on Sir Aaron's Lucario.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Eh, not exactly. The Zelda series has tons of trophies(and now Spirits), music, stages, a decent amount of items, and had tons of Stickers too. Plus lots of NPC enemies in Adventure Mode in Melee. More than some series too. It's pretty well represented in terms of having lots of content.

It's not varied for the playable characters, but to be honest, the only major one missing is Ganon right now for the trio. Then you have lots of viable choices, though I doubt he'll throw in more than 1 at this point(which completely kills the Champions as is for options, but still at least helps ones like Tingle, Ganon, and Impa. And maybe Vaati too?).

Ah, my favorite argument: "Zelda has loads of stages and few characters, so representation is ok." honestly sounds a lot like "The Zelda games are not about characters at all so we don't need to represent them."

I'm a Zelda fan, so I'd love to see more playable Zelda characters. I dislike that Zelda seems to be the only series bound by the "The character must make more than one appearance in a game" rule, especailly since some of the characters are incredibly recognizable. After all - I still see Majora's Mask logos all around Game Stop. I don't really see anything for characters like Lucas at all. Also "We got the triforce trio" implies that only the specific main characters are important - in that case "we already got the Mario core cast" tells us that aren't important. Or "Pokémon is only really about the trainer and characters like Pikachu!" Again, why is Zelda subject to restrictions the other series are not?

True, I don't want one champion over the others (unless it's Urbosa, but I'm biased in her favor). But the fact that Midna and especially Skull Kid, have recognizable looks and personalities. It is really annoying that, as big of a series as Zelda is, it's represented by three versions of Link (which are all semi-clones and only one has a unique few moves to reference one version), two versions of Zelda (both using completely original moves, one with some game reference and the other without), and Ganondorf (whose moveset is also clones from another character entirely)

 

[Deleted member]

When it comes to Square, i only look for the stuff that is confirmed and is still getting news.

They are a third party company, so they have a harder time than Nintendo when it comes to developing games (Nintendo has a lot of studios making each game they announce, while Square is more limited in regards to that).

 

[Cutie Gwen]

>Smash Bros. saved the series
lemme quote Will

Breh can YOU back up your claims of Earthbound not having survived due to Smash? Considering Europe only ever got the franchise as Smash until 2013 or something, I'm going to need facts that Earthbound's awful marketing campaign and the fact it was a critical and commercial failure when it first came out due to it's graphics didn't hurt it until Smash made people learn what a Ness is

 

[Deleted member]

We have anime Pokemon references.

I also expected that alt. Hell, I am disappointed that an Advent Children game still doesn't exist.

The only alt not there I was hoping for is the dress alt. However, now I see why; it'd mess with the hitbox. Thus, not feasible. That's ignoring Square being stingy.

I feel dumb for forgetting about Pokémon.
Yeah, that’s kind of true.

 

[osby]

The only thing that i didn’t expect from him was the Advent Children alt.

I don’t remember any other reference to movies based on games in Smash (Goldeneye doesn’t count because it is a game based on a movie, and not the other way around).

Pokemon

The Pokemon tend to be based off of their anime versions, with Mewtwo being based on Movie 1 Mewtwo and Lucario being based on Sir Aaron's Lucario.

They all also say their names.

 

[Deleted member]

The only alt not there I was hoping for is the dress alt. However, now I see why; it'd mess with the hitbox. Thus, not feasible. That's ignoring Square being stingy.

To heck with that, where's my disgusting Kingdom Hearts alt?

I may think this design's nonsense, but the mod based on it is pretty cool sense the wing only appears during select animations.

 

[Deleted member]

Breh can YOU back up your claims of Earthbound not having survived due to Smash? Considering Europe only ever got the franchise as Smash until 2013 or something, I'm going to need facts that Earthbound's awful marketing campaign and the fact it was a critical and commercial failure when it first came out due to it's graphics didn't hurt it until Smash made people learn what a Ness is

It is clear that Smash made Earthbound more popular.
And it also happened with Fire Emblem and maybe Doctor Mario.

 

[T3Z3R1]

Breh can YOU back up your claims of Earthbound not having survived due to Smash? Considering Europe only ever got the franchise as Smash until 2013 or something, I'm going to need facts that Earthbound's awful marketing campaign and the fact it was a critical and commercial failure when it first came out due to it's graphics didn't hurt it until Smash made people learn what a Ness is

Oh, My bad.

Sorry for acting like asshole there for a bit.

 

[Deleted member]

To heck with that, where's my disgusting Kingdom Hearts alt?

View attachment 178320

I may think this design's nonsense, but the mod based on it is pretty cool sense the wing only appears during select animations.

I actually saw that skin getting in more than the Advent Children one, just for it coming from a game.

The Advent Children one is still cool, if i am honest.

 

[Deleted member]

Him joining the roster was unpopular as an idea.

I thought he was going to join because I thought Cloud had a strong chance if any FF character would get in. I didn't find him being in even surprising so much as exciting. I knew he was the obvious choice. I also knew that him being "important to Nintendo" was a load of crock too. That wasn't what was important. The character himself was all that mattered.

So basically you're generalizing a bit too much.

I don't think I'm generalizing when that was literally the case back before he was revealed in Smash For. If we were talking about the Final Fantasy games on the NES/SNES, then that'd make sense, but people know VII before then as a PlayStation game through and through.

Of course Cloud was the obvious Final Fantasy character to put in, but because of the history that FFVII has, people didn't think it would be possible.