Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Ura]

Also, Piranha Plant is a lot further along than Mewtwo was. And Smash 4 had multiple DLC characters generally developed concurrently, with some getting a bit more priority in terms of release (Mewtwo, Cloud). It's not unfeasible to think that they began working on the first DLC character around the same time as Piranha Plant or when development was thoroughly winding down; I feel like a brief pre-rendered trailer, a character render, and maybe some screenshots for the site could be ready. I'm not anticipating a full-blown reveal on par with the other DLC characters, but I could easily see more than a textureless model flash.

Well all I expect in the event of a reveal is just a model and whatnot but anything more than that would be surprising lol.

It's 50-50 we get a reveal at TGA but I can see it happening.

 

[Deleted member]

You joke, but in my modpack, I have a DK with shades and every single one of his attack grunts is "op." If you use his fully charged punch, he'll yell "EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEY SEXY LADY!"

There's also a small chance that the game will ignore whatever song you have set and play Gangnam Style instead.

Only a small chance? How cowardly.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

*Sakurai adds Alucard, Soma, Juste, Trevor, Hector, Shanoa, Jonathan, Eric, Maria, Charlotte, Julius, Syfa, Albus, Stella and Loretta as playable characters in DLC updates before adding Edelgard*
Smash fans: UGH I AM SICK AND TIRED OF ALL THESE ****ING FIRE EMBLEM CHARACTERS CAN WE HAVE SOMETHING THAT ISN'T OVERREPPED? IT'S ALWAYS FIRE EMBLEM GETTING THE MOST LOVE IT ISN'T FAIR TO OTHER FRANCHISES, ESPECIALLY THE THIRD PARTY ONES!

 

[Opossum]

Agreed. It's not really much of an argument.

Though it does make them hard to compare to other franchises, as they have more consistent casts. Plus, Sheik proves being one-off isn't enough.

Them being promoted as equal is the hard part, not whether they're one-offs or not. They're important characters, of course.

Also, I'm trying to remember who even made that argument(which definitely wasn't what I was saying. Just arguing against really awful comparisons to begin with. Just being a "group" doesn't make them legitimately comparable to the Champions. The Champions are a group that are promoted as 100% equal. Many games don't have that factor. Pokemon does not(as it promotes the Starters differently due to the anime having one often more important than the other. At one point they probably intended that, but it never worked out)).

Though it'll be interesting if they bring the 4 characters back in some way, and start separating them in their importance. Or at least have all of them in Hyrule Warriors(a proper sequel, perhaps?). Hell, are they even skins/costumes? That would be nice if they aren't separately playable.

Sakurai has gone "out of order" or made choices between perceived equals in the past, though.

Look no further than Chrom in Smash 4. He's more important than Robin within Awakening itself, and by this logic should have been added before him. But Sakurai, in the end, made a choice between the two. IN that case, it was because Robin jumped out at him more. If Sakurai has an idea for how a specific Champion would work, do you really think he'd hold back on it for fear of slighting the other three?

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

We should get a Sephiroth spirit for Palutena
View attachment 178302

Well, Sephiroth did want to become a god after all (even if she's low tier).

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

Bowser has a son...

When they showed Bowser playing Switch online in with Bowser Jr. in the last regular direct, everyone in the Youtube live comment section started spamming "Bowser is a great father." I was more amused than I probably should have been.

 

[The DanMan051]

*Sakurai adds Alucard, Soma, Juste, Trevor, Hector, Shanoa, Jonathan, Eric, Maria, Charlotte, Julius, Syfa, Albus, Stella and Loretta as playable characters in DLC updates before adding Edelgard*
Smash fans: UGH I AM SICK AND TIRED OF ALL THESE ****ING FIRE EMBLEM CHARACTERS CAN WE HAVE SOMETHING THAT ISN'T OVERREPPED? IT'S ALWAYS FIRE EMBLEM GETTING THE MOST LOVE IT ISN'T FAIR TO OTHER FRANCHISES, ESPECIALLY THE THIRD PARTY ONES!

No, the complaint's going to be about "anime characters", which every post-2000 Castlevania character will be thrown under.

 

[Deleted member]

*Sakurai adds Alucard, Soma, Juste, Trevor, Hector, Shanoa, Jonathan, Eric, Maria, Charlotte, Julius, Syfa, Albus, Stella and Loretta as playable characters in DLC updates before adding Edelgard*
Smash fans: UGH I AM SICK AND TIRED OF ALL THESE ****ING FIRE EMBLEM CHARACTERS CAN WE HAVE SOMETHING THAT ISN'T OVERREPPED? IT'S ALWAYS FIRE EMBLEM GETTING THE MOST LOVE IT ISN'T FAIR TO OTHER FRANCHISES, ESPECIALLY THE THIRD PARTY ONES!

Hey, worth it if we get Julius.

 

[Deleted member]

You joke, but in my modpack, I have a DK with shades and every single one of his attack grunts is "op." If you use his fully charged punch, he'll yell "EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEY SEXY LADY!"

Funky Kong is lookin' rather bodacious there.

 

[Ura]

Mewtwo in Smash 4 was a different scenario because they hadn't just said, "We JUST started work on DLC" then showed him off less than a month later.

Plus, if we're talking VGAs, I don't think an announcement with an in-progress model is the way Nintendo wants to build hype. You're showing this to a whole lot of not-Smash fans, and that's boring. Either they'll simply have a prerendered trailer with no gameplay-- which, to my knowledge, they've never done before-- or that was a mistranslation and they were already significantly into work on DLC before the final direct. Or they're not showing Smash at the VGAs.

They could always have like dramatic visual effects/build up that leads to the reveal of the model along with related franchise music/footage. It's 50-50 as I said but I think it could happen.

 

[MainJPW]

Honestly, when you accept Sega won’t let Sonic change colors and focus on his gear changing...he’s got some good alts (especially the light blue alt)

I like his Ark of the Cosmos looking bracelet on the white shoes one. The funny thing about that alt is his fur was whiter in 4.

Bull. ****in'. ****.

Thy Crystal Rings blue one and the Purple Chaos Emerald ones are cool too.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Plus, are you seriously telling me that Falco is somehow the main character of Star Fox or was always meant to be equal to Fox/James? When instead he's his wingman and a secondary(but important) character? There's no denying that Peppy, Slippy, and Falco are important. But they are not nor ever will on equal footing with Fox. And never were meant to be. They're just your secondary major characters. They are not the main character. There's a reason the story revolves more around Fox's exploits(never mind Andross being the main villain in most games, with changes depending the story). They just plain aren't on equal footing. Plus, BOTW doesn't have multiplayer, nor are the Champions playable. They revolve around Link being the main character and each give him an ability along with helping him through a Dungeon. They all do the same overall thing. They're just better written than some characters(though to be frank, they aren't exactly the epitome of writing either. They're kind of shallow. And I don't mean Revali. They're awesome characters, that said).

I have read the rest of the post and I already expressed my opinion on it in my previous post so I'll just omit it.
I'll just reply to the question in the last part of the post:

No, I'm not saying that Falco is equally important as Fox, in fact, in my first post on this subject, I said "Ignoring Fox who's the main character".
I mean that, Falco, Peppy and Slippy are equally important, and the fact that Peppy was changed with Krystal for a game doesn't affect this, because he still had an important role in that game (in Command on DS he was still playable).

I brought in Star Fox as an example because I think that Sakurai using only Falco to represent the supporting cast of Fox instead of the whole team, is the proof that if they want they can make one single Champion from BOTW as a newcomer without the need to put them all at once.
The fact that Falco is an easy clone or was high in some obscure poll in the Melee days is secondary, the fact is that in 3 Smash games, Falco has been the only member (aside of Fox) representing the Star Fox team and Sakurai was never interested in putting them all to "complete" the representation, not even as semiclones. That's not because Falco is more important than Slippy or Peppy, it's because as long as Nintendo or Sakurai wants, one member is enough to represent a team on the roster.
I don't exclude the possibility that they will add Peppy or Slippy in the roster some day in the future, what I'm saying is just that "they are 4 and equally important, it would be wrong to select only one of them" is not a problem, it's just a fan concern.

 

[Deleted member]

No, the complaint's going to be about "anime characters", which every post-2000 Castlevania character will be thrown under.

" but aLl AniMu is bAd aNd is AlL teH TraEsH hEntIs with wAiFU TrAEsH"

Did I do it right. I wanna make sure I'm reaching my Smash Bros. fan complaining quota.

 

[Mc.Rad]

I want Sakurai to add every F-Zero racer into Smash just to flex on everybody

 

[praline]

Castlevania is one of 2 third party series that would be cool having multiple unique characters.

 

[Dyllybirdy]

Castlevania is one of 2 third party series that would be cool having multiple unique characters.

Which is the other series, then?

 

[Deleted member]

Castlevania is one of 2 third party series that would be cool having multiple unique characters.

What’s the other one?

 

[Ura]

Sakurai needs to add every CO from the Nintendo Wars series starting with my boy Andy going down all the way to Hetler from Super Famicom Wars.

 

[FreeFox]

*Sakurai adds Alucard, Soma, Juste, Trevor, Hector, Shanoa, Jonathan, Eric, Maria, Charlotte, Julius, Syfa, Albus, Stella and Loretta as playable characters in DLC updates before adding Edelgard*
Smash fans: UGH I AM SICK AND TIRED OF ALL THESE ****ING FIRE EMBLEM CHARACTERS CAN WE HAVE SOMETHING THAT ISN'T OVERREPPED? IT'S ALWAYS FIRE EMBLEM GETTING THE MOST LOVE IT ISN'T FAIR TO OTHER FRANCHISES, ESPECIALLY THE THIRD PARTY ONES!

Héctor will remain my least likely of my most wanted……...

 

[Deleted member]

Funky Kong is lookin' rather bodacious there.

PSY Bike Wii was always my favorite Mario Kart game. The Flame Styler was just too good.

 

[KMDP]

*Sakurai adds Alucard, Soma, Juste, Trevor, Hector, Shanoa, Jonathan, Eric, Maria, Charlotte, Julius, Syfa, Albus, Stella and Loretta as playable characters in DLC updates before adding Edelgard*
Smash fans: UGH I AM SICK AND TIRED OF ALL THESE ****ING FIRE EMBLEM CHARACTERS CAN WE HAVE SOMETHING THAT ISN'T OVERREPPED? IT'S ALWAYS FIRE EMBLEM GETTING THE MOST LOVE IT ISN'T FAIR TO OTHER FRANCHISES, ESPECIALLY THE THIRD PARTY ONES!

Hector, Charlotte

No complaints from me.

*sings Fire Emblem theme obnoxiously loud*

 

[praline]

Which is the other series, then?

What’s the other one?

I’d hope everyone would know the other one cause I mention it all the time.

Dragon Quest.

 

[Deleted member]

I’d hope everyone would know the other one cause I mention it all the time.

Dragon Quest.

Oh I thought you were talking about ones already in Smash.

 

[Dyllybirdy]

I’d hope everyone would know the other one cause I mention it all the time.

Dragon Quest.

Oh... I have failed you.

 

[Deleted member]

The Fantastic Four need too much something similar to what Sakurai did for Megaman.

Fox ruined them too much.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

Having another Sonic rep would be nice, but what I really want is another Sonic stage. Specifically one that isn't a grassy early-game level, the only early-game level I'd really want now is Angel Island. But I'd rather a mechanical or metropolis kind of stage, to represent the other half of Sonic games, maybe something from Mania. Studiopolis would have been cool.

 

[Noipoi]

Having another Sonic rep would be nice, but what I really want is another Sonic stage. Specifically one that isn't a grassy early-game level, the only early-game level I'd really want now is Angel Island. But I'd rather a mechanical or metropolis kind of stage, to represent the other half of Sonic games, maybe something from Mania. Studiopolis would have been cool.

Tropical Resort or Starlight Carnival would be awesome.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Sakurai has gone "out of order" or made choices between perceived equals in the past, though.

Look no further than Chrom in Smash 4. He's more important than Robin within Awakening itself, and by this logic should have been added before him. But Sakurai, in the end, made a choice between the two. IN that case, it was because Robin jumped out at him more. If Sakurai has an idea for how a specific Champion would work, do you really think he'd hold back on it for fear of slighting the other three?

And Chrom was going to be. But he had no way to make him stand out at all. Robin got chosen because he/she had a better moveset. The 3 characters in Awakening are not all vastly unique as they could be. Which is why one stood out more than the other.

Besides that, Chrom had the bigger story focus. The Champions have equal story focus. That means Sakurai has literally no reason to look at one at any particular one as "more important". They solely have fan polls going for them at this point, really. (I realized how I didn't specify the story focus of why Chrom isn't in a similar situation the Champions, so... yeah).

This cannot be applied to the Champions who are all unique, but equal. Nobody stands out or is the "main character" in any way over the other. Besides that, the fact none of them are playable nor was there ever any reason to believe one would be playable over another puts them in a situation that makes it highly difficult to choose one over the other. None stands out in some significant way at all. All you can find are polls at best, and that isn't going to be enough of a reason on its own to get any in. I'm just sad they didn't get Assist Trophy roles, really.

I have read the rest of the post and I already expressed my opinion on it in my previous post so I'll just omit it.
I'll just reply to the question in the last part of the post:

No, I'm not saying that Falco is equally important as Fox, in fact, in my first post on this subject, I said "Ignoring Fox who's the main character".
I mean that, Falco, Peppy and Slippy are equally important, and the fact that Peppy was changed with Krystal for a game doesn't affect this, because he still had an important role in that game (in Command on DS he was still playable).

The problem is you made a bad comparison to begin with. No Champions is the "main one". Fox is the main one. There is no equal importance. The only groups in a similar position to the Champions are 100% equal characters. A better example to look at is the 6 possible options in Final Fantasy 1. These are what the Champions are like(just playable). That's what they're meant to be. A group of 4. Not 1. Not 2. Not 3. 4.

I brought in Star Fox as an example because I think that Sakurai using only Falco to represent the supporting cast of Fox instead of the whole team, is the proof that if they want they can make one single Champion from BOTW as a newcomer without the need to put them all at once.
The fact that Falco is an easy clone or was high in some obscure poll in the Melee days is secondary, the fact is that in 3 Smash games, Falco has been the only member (aside of Fox) representing the Star Fox team and Sakurai was never interested in putting them all to "complete" the representation, not even as semiclones. That's not because Falco is more important than Slippy or Peppy, it's because as long as Nintendo or Sakurai wants, one member is enough to represent a team on the roster.

And that has nothing to do with why Falco was chosen. He had the perfect body type, was not as important as Fox, and also had popularity. The Star Fox crew has always been a group that has changed cast members, with only Fox(or his similar counterparts) being the main character. The only one who almost would've been as close to Fox is Krystal, oddly enough, if she was playable in Adventures like she was meant to be. But she also has more focus in Command, so there's implications she was at some point meant to be the closest to his level of Main Character. That obviously changed.

I don't exclude the possibility that they will add Peppy or Slippy in the roster some day in the future, what I'm saying is just that "they are 4 and equally important, it would be wrong to select only one of them" is not a problem, it's just a fan concern.

In this case, Sakurai has never done this type of thing before in any way. When it came to a group of equal importance(which has yet to have any member playable in Smash, with technically the Awakening trio kind of counting, but that was a more unique situation too), the thing that's important is that one has to outright stand out from another. This does not apply to the Champions. They are all highly unique. We don't have a Chrom situation where he's too similar to Marth and Ike to be worth adding, which is why Robin got in instead. The only reason all 3 are in there is because Echoes was possible. That's literally it. If Echoes weren't a thing, it would only be Robin.

That means we'd need to have the Champions all playable at once for them to really stand a chance. Because none of them truly stick out compared to the other. They all have different archtypes, weapons, and abilities. None are promoted over the other. None are practically the same as a playable character in Smash either. They just don't have a remotely similar situation to any currently playable character. The're highly unlikely until they start treating the Champions as more than a group on 100% equal terms with no stand-out factors.

 

[praline]

Oh I thought you were talking about ones already in Smash.

Nah the other ones I’m ok with the 1 unique rep

 

[Deleted member]

Having another Sonic rep would be nice, but what I really want is another Sonic stage. Specifically one that isn't a grassy early-game level, the only early-game level I'd really want now is Angel Island. But I'd rather a mechanical or metropolis kind of stage, to represent the other half of Sonic games, maybe something from Mania. Studiopolis would have been cool.

Sonic '06 stage with Silver as the hazard.

 

[osby]

Having another Sonic rep would be nice, but what I really want is another Sonic stage. Specifically one that isn't a grassy early-game level, the only early-game level I'd really want now is Angel Island. But I'd rather a mechanical or metropolis kind of stage, to represent the other half of Sonic games, maybe something from Mania. Studiopolis would have been cool.

Um, Spagonia counts as a metropolis, right?

 

[Noipoi]

Sonic '06 stage with Silver as the hazard.

He's worse than the Yellow Devil because he keeps you in a loop of repeating, repeating, death, repeating.

Spoiler

Unrelated, does anyone with a copy of Let's Go wanna help me evolve my Haunter? Just PM me

 

[Iridium]

Sonic '06 stage with Silver as the hazard.

I kind of want to see Labyrinth Zone get in, actually.

 

[ZoroCarlos]

Do stages really have to be themed around the characters they come with by obligation? We could get Bandanna Dee + Sky Arena/Snake Park from Arms for all I know.

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

Having another Sonic rep would be nice, but what I really want is another Sonic stage. Specifically one that isn't a grassy early-game level, the only early-game level I'd really want now is Angel Island. But I'd rather a mechanical or metropolis kind of stage, to represent the other half of Sonic games, maybe something from Mania. Studiopolis would have been cool.

I agree, it's a crying shame that Studiopolis( even the song at least) won't be in this game.

 

[osby]

Do stages really have to be themed around the characters they come with by obligation? We could get Bandanna Dee + Sky Arena/Snake Park from Arms for all I know.

I guess not really, but we never got a side character as newcomer DLC, so it's hard to say.

 

[Noipoi]

Do stages really have to be themed around the characters they come with by obligation? We could get Bandanna Dee + Sky Arena/Snake Park from Arms for all I know.

It isn't confirmed, but it would make sense.

 

[Idon]

Do stages really have to be themed around the characters they come with by obligation? We could get Bandanna Dee + Sky Arena/Snake Park from Arms for all I know.

It's an extremely safe bet.

 

[ZoroCarlos]

Well in that case since I brought up Bandanna Dee, what would a new Kirby stage for him in the hypothetical situation that he does make it. I was thinking "Sakurai Bias" and add Megaton Punch as a stage. But I would totally prefer something from like Robobot... or Lor Starcutter that'd be badass.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Do stages really have to be themed around the characters they come with by obligation? We could get Bandanna Dee + Sky Arena/Snake Park from Arms for all I know.

Why would he separate franchises like that? It makes little sense. If we get Bandanna Waddle Dee, it's highly safe to assume he's coming with a Kirby stage. Assuming he's a Season Pass character(as we could get other characters separately).

Nothing says we can't have DLC other than the Season's Pass. Piranha Plant does not come with a stage(or music, though this isn't as made clear?), meaning that just getting stages separate is very possible.

This could in fact be how we get Minecraft representation.