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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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staindgrey

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Jump if only because I care less about it. If there was PS all-stars sequel directed by Sakurai and handled by his team, surely it’d just be “Smash bros but with PlayStation characters”? If we do get a sequel to thatgame, I’d hope it do something different and exciting, if you get me.
It wouldn't be the exact same team, unless Sony wanted to employ both Sora and the specific members that Bandai Namco put on the last two Smash games. And keep in mind that Sakurai is capable of making different games. In this hypothetical scenario, I bet he'd want to make something entirely different that better suited the Playstation characters.

Still, I'd rather see the man make something that isn't a fighting game.
 

MBRedboy31

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Dunno. Is there a boss fight for him in Sun & Moon?
Technically, he’s part of the final boss’s team in regular Sun/Moon if Rowlet was your starter, but just being part of the final boss’s team only if you picked a particular starter isn’t really the same thing of course.
 

DarthEnderX

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Because wheelbarrows are in no way associated with salt, unless for some reason you really ****ing hate wheelbarrows.
Wheelbarrows are a convenient method of transporting large amounts of a loose material like salt.

And people actually do use them to salt streets and walkways.
 
D

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It wouldn't be the exact same team, unless Sony wanted to employ both Sora and the specific members that Bandai Namco put on the last two Smash games. And keep in mind that Sakurai is capable of making different games. In this hypothetical scenario, I bet he'd want to make something entirely different that better suited the Playstation characters.

Still, I'd rather see the man make something that isn't a fighting game.
I suppose, but in this hypothetical scenario, I’d rather see Sony take another crack at a PlayStation all-stars and see what they do.
 
D

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Ok but imagine if all the Castlevania bosses that make a cameo in the Dracula's Castle stage are also all bosses in World of Light(including Kid Dracula), will people start calling out Sakurai for Castlevania biases?
 

FreeFox

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It wouldn't be the exact same team, unless Sony wanted to employ both Sora and the specific members that Bandai Namco put on the last two Smash games. And keep in mind that Sakurai is capable of making different games. In this hypothetical scenario, I bet he'd want to make something entirely different that better suited the Playstation characters.

Still, I'd rather see the man make something that isn't a fighting game.

Look at that face. The only game he should be making is "Sakurai takes a vacation!"
 
D

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Ok but imagine if all the Castlevania bosses that make a cameo in the Dracula's Castle stage are also all bosses in World of Light(including Kid Dracula), will people start calling out Sakurai for Castlevania biases?
idk maybe
 

Iridium

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Ok but imagine if all the Castlevania bosses that make a cameo in the Dracula's Castle stage are also all bosses in World of Light(including Kid Dracula), will people start calling out Sakurai for Castlevania biases?
If the time is just right...

But this franchise is pretty much perfect for bosses, so I'd expect many of them to show up. Yeah, I can still sense future complaints if that happened.
 
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D

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Ok but imagine if all the Castlevania bosses that make a cameo in the Dracula's Castle stage are also all bosses in World of Light(including Kid Dracula), will people start calling out Sakurai for Castlevania biases?
It'll be Castlevania bias until another Pokemon joins and then it's Pokemon bias.
 
D

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After Meta Knight's blindsided elimination last council, betrayal is abound,as Mewtwo and Robin who promised to team up with Bayonetta and Yoshi to take out Roy, side with Yoshi and Lucas instead to take out MK!

Who will be put up on the blog? Tune in next time on...Smashvivor!
I'd watch this series. :joyful:
 

Diem

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He's had perfect attendance, but he was late to his first appearance.
 

The DanMan051

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Unless of course it gets ported, but I doubt they knew that was guaranteed to happen back in 2016 before the Switch was even revealed to the public.
Late response because work, but the President of Monolith Soft openly said fairly recently that he wanted to have it ported but the amount of resources required is a major obstacle-- i.e. it's not currently being ported or is going to be anytime soon.
 

Opossum

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Saying the Champions have no merits due to being one-offs is fairly asinine, in my opinion. The four Champions are literal representatives of three of the most iconic Zelda races plus the Rito.

I'll use Daruk since he's my boy. Yeah, Daruk has only appeared in Breath of the Wild, but within the lore, and in Smash, he acts/would act as the representative of ALL Gorons, which are an incredibly recurring race within the Zelda games.

Granted this argument doesn't work for Urbosa specifically due to Ganondorf existing, but it's something to keep in mind.
 
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While this is a perfectly valid viewpoint, many people have their eyes on smash as it is fast approaching. If nintendo wanted to go big with this, then they would announce the first DLC character soon to get fighter passes sold
Anyone who was gonna buy the season pass already has, though. People who are waiting are waiting because they want to see the whole pass, and one character won't do much to change minds.

Also, let's be real, it's Smash DLC. It's gonna sell regardless of when they announce and release it.
 

Arymle Roseanne

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So, which would you rather have Sakurai and his team be in charge of? A Jump Ultimate Stars sequel or a Playstation All Stars sequal?
PlayStation All stars cause I don't really care about Japan animation nowadays besides that it would be a lot easier to localize it in multiple places. Crossover featuring characters from Japan shows always have a tough time with releasing them all over the world.
 

Iridium

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Saying the Champions have no merits due to being one-offs is fairly asinine, in my opinion. The four Champions are literal representatives of three of the most iconic Zelda races plus the Rito.

I'll use Daruk since he's my boy. Yeah, Daruk has only appeared in Breath of the Wild, but within the lore, and in Smash, he acts/would act as the representative of ALL Gorons, which are an incredibly recurring race within the Zelda games.

Granted this argument doesn't work for Urbosa specifically due to Ganondorf existing, but it's something to keep in mind.
So, Sakurai could treat them like he does Link? I mean, using the Champions could definitely work better than a simple Goron or Zora, for instance. That sounds like the kind of thing he would do.
 

The DanMan051

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Ok but imagine if all the Castlevania bosses that make a cameo in the Dracula's Castle stage are also all bosses in World of Light(including Kid Dracula), will people start calling out Sakurai for Castlevania biases?
No because Castlevania had a presence in the West during the late 80s/90s and is ingrained in many peoples' nostalgia
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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I'm sorry but I disagree.
I hate to do this type of posts with a mod, but there are too many things I disagree with, and even some factually false statements (such as slippy not being in every game and peppy being removed completely, or the Fox and James thing).

Star Fox has a rotating cast, but the main 4 have been consistent for the most time (including Slippy who never missed a game too).
The only special case is Peppy being "replaced" by Krystal in Assault; that game is set later in the storyline and Peppy is still an important character. Peppy retired from the Star Fox squadron but became a general, and he gets an important role in the story despite not being playable (in Star Fox Command on DS he comes back as playable if I remember well, but that game has loads of characters and not just a main team).
I don't think James Mc Cloud has ever replaced Fox, it was an easter egg/bonus in some games, an endgame unlockable; neither the other way, as far as I know Fox has always been the main character and James was just his father, who has a role in the backstory of the series.

Not being playable does not affect the chance of a character, because there are characters such as Sheik and Rosalina who originally were not playable but still were added to Smash (Rosalina was playable in Mario Kart and maybe other spin-offs but it doesn't count, because look at Waluigi).
Not to mention that the Starfox team is usually not playable as well outside of multiplayer, they are usually controlled by a CPU in most of the games, and they mostly interact with dialogues.
The only thing I agree on is that the champions don't get much screen time, but they are still the most important characters of the game after Link and Zelda. But if you look at it in this way, even Zelda does not appear that much, since the game is mostly about Link going around the world alone.
The game as very little story, but that small story is about Link, Zelda and the champions. Their 4 "side quests" are the only 4 dungeons in the game. You can skip them and go to the final boss directly, but they are still part of the main story. Saying that they only exist to make a boss easier is like saying that most of the Koopalings are unimportant because you can skip most of their fights using secret passages/magic flute/Star Road.

IMO the only difference between Star Fox and the champions is that the champions only appeared in 1 game, so saying that they are not a rotating cast can't be verifyed because we don't have many entries in the series to compare, unlike Starfox. On the other hand, the champions did change in BOTW, since there are the champions from the past and the new champions from the present, and they are different people (just like the old Star Fox team of James Mc Cloud, where the only returning member is Peppy).
I think that the comparison between the champions and the Starfox team is totally fitting as long as we look at Zelda BOTW as a single game, separated from the rest of the Zelda series; it's obvious that if we look at the series as a whole, the champions are unimportant because they only appear in one game.

Honestly, I don't think the champions should be in Smash, since they are intended to be one offs like Ghirahim and others; but I think they are kinda likely only because it's Nintendo who is selecting the characters this time, and because of the huge success of BOTW.
I personally don't even care.
No, the difference between the Champions and the Star Fox crew is the Star Fox crew isn't as consistent or promoted as one group that never changes. Besides the fact they do change the Star Fox crew more than once, meaning they were never meant to be promoted as equals(something they absolutely don't do either).

The Champions are always treated as equals. This has never been the case for the Star Fox crew. Fox didn't even exist till a later game. The crew is "mostly" consistent, but the fact of the matter is that it isn't. It does get changed per the story. But they also aren't hard equals in presentation. Fox was always the main character from the get go. Falco, Peppy, Slippy, Wolf, Krystal, and many others are secondary characters. You can also put James in the same importance as Fox. Daruk, Mipha, Urbosa, and Revali are hard equals by design.

The comparison just doesn't work. Until they start actually promoting one Champion as more important than the other(which has never happened), they will always be on equal settings. The only thing for Sakurai to even look at beyond "what moveset might work better" is who is more popular. That has nothing to do with actual importance regardless.

And yes, they have rotated the cast in small bits for Star Fox. It's not like in Fire Emblem, of course. It's more comparable to how Pokemon is in Smash. Pikachu, Jigglypuff were always the mainstays. The rest varied due to situations. Lucario and Charizard are the hard mainstays after that(whether or not Pokemon Trainer is included). Mewtwo isn't even this, despite its immense popularity. It's been low priority, with Jigglypuff being higher(due to it being super easy to make, of course). Greninja may or may not be a mainstay, but we have no way to tell until the next game comes around.

Star Fox doesn't have a very consistent cast among all games. It has a lot of changes. It just has certain archtypes that are kept. James/Fox(and Fox's son, though I forgot his name) are always there. You're often going to find someone akin to Wolf if not Wolf himself. You'll often have 3 other teammates. Usually Falco is there, respectively. Doesn't change the fact the cast isn't as consistent as people are painting it as. No, it's definitely not. They're rotated it out with "similar" characters to move the story on. Which didn't work well(as Command was fairly bad), but it still existed. It's more of an archtypal cast than specific characters, really.

The Zelda series has a highly rotating secondary cast. Link is the only indefinite constant. Assuming it's not a spin-off or a game Nintendo didn't make. Like the Tingle games or CD-i games. Ganon isn't in every game. Zelda isn't in every game. It's more archtypal designs(just like Star Fox, who doesn't even have a "only this hero is your main guy for sure", due to switching him out for another sometimes). And that's how Star Fox is meant to be designed, having some similarities to how Zelda's core cast is, just with a few more constants(then again, the usual monsters are more constant in comparison than the main/secondary characters in Zelda).

The reality is, the Champions are not really comparable to Star Fox or Pokemon. They're different story purposes. They're just notable members of consistent races that throw them on equal footing to promote. That's their role in the story, to be 100% equal. If they were meant to have someone more notable, they'd have heavily changed how the story works and how they're promoted. The only real difference besides races is as I said earlier, their popularity.

Plus, are you seriously telling me that Falco is somehow the main character of Star Fox or was always meant to be equal to Fox/James? When instead he's his wingman and a secondary(but important) character? There's no denying that Peppy, Slippy, and Falco are important. But they are not nor ever will on equal footing with Fox. And never were meant to be. They're just your secondary major characters. They are not the main character. There's a reason the story revolves more around Fox's exploits(never mind Andross being the main villain in most games, with changes depending the story). They just plain aren't on equal footing. Plus, BOTW doesn't have multiplayer, nor are the Champions playable. They revolve around Link being the main character and each give him an ability along with helping him through a Dungeon. They all do the same overall thing. They're just better written than some characters(though to be frank, they aren't exactly the epitome of writing either. They're kind of shallow. And I don't mean Revali. They're awesome characters, that said).
 
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Saying the Champions have no merits due to being one-offs is fairly asinine, in my opinion. The four Champions are literal representatives of three of the most iconic Zelda races plus the Rito.

I'll use Daruk since he's my boy. Yeah, Daruk has only appeared in Breath of the Wild, but within the lore, and in Smash, he acts/would act as the representative of ALL Gorons, which are an incredibly recurring race within the Zelda games.

Granted this argument doesn't work for Urbosa specifically due to Ganondorf existing, but it's something to keep in mind.
I agree with this, I believe a Goron and a Zora are the main thing missing from the Zelda representation(they don't even show up as assists!). Rito to a lesser extent though, as they have showed up in only two games so far.
But if one's gonna use the argument of "rotating casts" to diqualify ither characters, then theybreally shouldn't try to argue for Zelda characters much.
 

osby

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No because Castlevania had a presence in the West during the late 80s/90s and is ingrained in many peoples' nostalgia
What? It's almost like you're implying Smash fandom also has biases and goes easier on the franchises that they personally have nostalgia.
 

Ura

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Plus, if we are to believe that actual work on DLC characters legitimately did not start until after the final direct, that leaves them essentially no time at all to make a character in any sort of presentable fashion. I really think any sort of VGAs presence by Nintendo will be for games besides Smash Bros.
Well not really. Case in point, Mewtwo in Smash 4.

If they just show a model like they did in the 50 Fact-Extravaganza, it would work.
 
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What? It's almost like you're implying Smash fandom also has biases and goes easier on the franchises that they personally have nostalgia.
Good thing the smash fandom is pretty big and encompasses a bunch of people of different tastes and age and isn’t just one nebulous entity then!
 

Jovahexeon Joranvexeon

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If World of Light is the fastest way to do this unnecessary task of unlocking 61 characters in the year 2018 then I guess I'll love it.

I still think all of you ''I love unlocking characters!" aren't gonna love it so much when you're sitting there unlocking 60 plus peeps.

It's gonna cease to be fun and become more of a tedious task.
Eh, if there's a decent enough story and narrative with character interactions like in Brawl, it'll stay fun enough for the likes of me.
 

staindgrey

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Look at that face. The only game he should be making is "Sakurai takes a vacation!"
I've never been in something as strenuous as leading a two hundred employee team in videogame design, but I can say that when it comes to my profession and what I love to do, both are very stressful, but I can jump from one right to the other because I love it. I just need to be stressed by something I want to do rather than something I have to do.

I imagine Sakurai's work ethic won't let him take a legitimate sabbatical so much as get a different project that he's always wanted to do.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Saying the Champions have no merits due to being one-offs is fairly asinine, in my opinion. The four Champions are literal representatives of three of the most iconic Zelda races plus the Rito.

I'll use Daruk since he's my boy. Yeah, Daruk has only appeared in Breath of the Wild, but within the lore, and in Smash, he acts/would act as the representative of ALL Gorons, which are an incredibly recurring race within the Zelda games.

Granted this argument doesn't work for Urbosa specifically due to Ganondorf existing, but it's something to keep in mind.
Agreed. It's not really much of an argument.

Though it does make them hard to compare to other franchises, as they have more consistent casts. Plus, Sheik proves being one-off isn't enough.

Them being promoted as equal is the hard part, not whether they're one-offs or not. They're important characters, of course.

Also, I'm trying to remember who even made that argument(which definitely wasn't what I was saying. Just arguing against really awful comparisons to begin with. Just being a "group" doesn't make them legitimately comparable to the Champions. The Champions are a group that are promoted as 100% equal. Many games don't have that factor. Pokemon does not(as it promotes the Starters differently due to the anime having one often more important than the other. At one point they probably intended that, but it never worked out)).

Though it'll be interesting if they bring the 4 characters back in some way, and start separating them in their importance. Or at least have all of them in Hyrule Warriors(a proper sequel, perhaps?). Hell, are they even skins/costumes? That would be nice if they aren't separately playable.
 

KMDP

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I can't believe we're 20 days away from the biggest cross-over event in gaming history.
...
Oh...
Oh my... The release date's getting real close.

I really should get on buying that Switch.
 

The DanMan051

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Well not really. Case in point, Mewtwo in Smash 4.

If they just show a model like they did in the 50 Fact-Extravaganza, it would work.
Also, Piranha Plant is a lot further along than Mewtwo was. And Smash 4 had multiple DLC characters generally developed concurrently, with some getting a bit more priority in terms of release (Mewtwo, Cloud). It's not unfeasible to think that they began working on the first DLC character around the same time as Piranha Plant or when development was thoroughly winding down; I feel like a brief pre-rendered trailer, a character render, and maybe some screenshots for the site could be ready. I'm not anticipating a full-blown reveal on par with the other DLC characters, but I could easily see more than a textureless model flash.
 
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Nerf Psy, he's too OP.
You joke, but in my modpack, I have a DK with shades and every single one of his attack grunts is "op." If you use his fully charged punch, he'll yell "EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEY SEXY LADY!"

There's also a small chance that the game will ignore whatever song you have set and play Gangnam Style instead.
 

staindgrey

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Well not really. Case in point, Mewtwo in Smash 4.

If they just show a model like they did in the 50 Fact-Extravaganza, it would work.
Mewtwo in Smash 4 was a different scenario because they hadn't just said, "We JUST started work on DLC" then showed him off less than a month later.

Plus, if we're talking VGAs, I don't think an announcement with an in-progress model is the way Nintendo wants to build hype. You're showing this to a whole lot of not-Smash fans, and that's boring. Either they'll simply have a prerendered trailer with no gameplay-- which, to my knowledge, they've never done before-- or that was a mistranslation and they were already significantly into work on DLC before the final direct. Or they're not showing Smash at the VGAs.
 
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