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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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NineS

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I know you're reading this. Vote 2B.
SMRPG is on the SNES Mini. It's their game. The SNES Mini came out a mere year ago.


I don't think that really implies anything.
I think it implies Sakurai wanted to recognize how popular Geno was. Because he outright stated he's aware of Geno's popularity and wanted to throw his fans a bone. That's...kinda all it seems to imply.
If they were to put Geno in, I think it'd be a little too late for it to be advertising for the SNES Mini.
Not to mention, advertising-wise, a Dragon Quest character would make them far more money overall. As would a Final Fantasy one.

Sakurai would do it to throw fans a bone, but this requires the assumption that Nintendo and Square Enix would do it to throw them a bone as well.
Judging from their profit loss as of recently, I would make the assuption that Square Enix is pushing for a character who would be far more marketable and bring in more profits overall than Geno.

Plus, for people who are already fans of Geno.. They most likely already have SMRPG in some form to this day. Whether it be ROM, SNES Mini, on the SNES, etc. Granted, I'd believe some would be willing to pay extra.
 
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Luigi The President

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If they were to put Geno in, I think it'd be a little too late for it to be advertising for the SNES Mini.
Not to mention, advertising-wise, a Dragon Quest character would make them far more money overall. As would a Final Fantasy one.

Sakurai would do it to throw fans a bone, but this requires the assumption that Nintendo and Square Enix would do it to throw them a bone as well.
Judging from their profit loss as of recently, I would make the assuption that Square Enix is pushing for a character who would be far more marketable and bring in more profits overall than Geno.
My last point about throwing a bone was solely about the Splash Screen for the Mii Costume.

I totally understand your points.

But...it's Smash DLC. It's insanely profitable regardless of who it is, I think both companies understand this.
 

Will

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My last point about throwing a bone was solely about the Splash Screen for the Mii Costume.

I totally understand your points.

But...it's Smash DLC. It's insanely profitable regardless of who it is, I think both companies understand this.
You're telling me because of the splash screen of mii costumes that means we're going to get Ice T in Smash?
**** yeah it's about time law & order got a rep, they deserved it
 
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StrawHatX

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I think that Sora being in Smash and KH ports are two entirely different deals. And to our knowledge, there are no KH ports coming to Switch right now. We are basing this argument off of ports that don't even exist yet.


Dudette, but thanks, I was misinformed. Le take the L epic dance.
I’m not saying getting Sora into Smash and getting KH games on the Switch would be apart of the same deal. I’m saying getting Sora into Smash for people who don’t play KH would get them interested in playing KH games should we ever get ports.

And if Xbox is getting KH3 I can’t imagine why Disney would not let Nintendo have any KH ports in the future. So if that happens then Nintendo gamers would then be excited as they’re familiar with Sora.

Geno can maybe advertise the SNES classic. That’s great. And Nintendo would love more sales of that. But I think they’re focus is on the Switch and it’s future content rather than the SNES classic. In a year we’ll most likely get a new classic system.
 

NineS

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I know you're reading this. Vote 2B.
My last point about throwing a bone was solely about the Splash Screen for the Mii Costume.

I totally understand your points.

But...it's Smash DLC. It's insanely profitable regardless of who it is, I think both companies understand this.
Insanely profitable, yes. But even if they're all highly profitable, you must deduce which of them would truly bring in the most profits overall, shouldn't you?
 
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D

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You're telling me because of the splash screen of mii costumes that means we're going to get Ice T in Smash?
**** yeah it's about time law & order got a rep, they deserved it
Ice T is a US/EU exclusive. Japan gets Shinya Arino instead.
 
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Luigi The President

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You're telling me because of the splash screen of mii costumes that means we're going to get Ice T in Smash?
**** yeah it's about time law & order got a rep, they deserved it
Obviously

I’m not saying getting Sora into Smash and getting KH games on the Switch would be apart of the same deal. I’m saying getting Sora into Smash for people who don’t play KH would get them interested in playing KH games should we ever get ports.

And if Xbox is getting KH3 I can’t imagine why Disney would not let Nintendo have any KH ports in the future. So if that happens then Nintendo gamers would then be excited as they’re familiar with Sora.

Geno can maybe advertise the SNES classic. That’s great. And Nintendo would love more sales of that. But I think they’re focus is on the Switch and it’s future content rather than the SNES classic. In a year we’ll most likely get a new classic system.
The thing is Sora advertises future ports...as well as the biggest game in his franchise coming out on numerous competing consoles shortly after his potential announcement.

Insanely profitable, yes. But even if they're all highly profitable, you must deduce which of them would truly bring in the most profits overall?
Yep-just wanted to point that out
 

Dee Dude

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Diem

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I'm curious as to how well the Corrin DLC performed for Smash 4, given that it was for a game that wasn't even out internationally, and once it did come out, it wasn't very well-received. It was the only fighter/stage DLC for Smash 4 that I didn't purchase. I often forget the character even exists. And it seems like half the people I've seen who are into the character have a fixation on her feet...
 

StrawHatX

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The thing is Sora advertises future ports...as well as the biggest game in his franchise coming out on numerous competing consoles shortly after his potential announcement.
I think that sounds more appealing to Square then “Maybe we’ll sell a few more SNES classics”.

Nintendo is going to communicate with Square on a new rep, they’re not just going to grab which ever one they want. I don’t see how Geno benefits Square at all and he maybe sells a few more classics for Nintendo.
 

Idon

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Dunno if anyone has posted this already but as it
turns out...
https://nintendoeverything.com/sakurai-on-smash-bros-ultimate-why-incineroar-was-chosen-and-more/

Slots do exist.

“So, I left one character frame open for Pokémon, and after Pokémon: Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon came out I took another look at it. That resulted in Incineroar being chosen.”

He calls them character frames though, thoughts?
It sounds more metaphorical than anything else. More like saying "I designated some time and resources specifically for a Pokemon rep in the future in the project plan."
 
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Tako Tuesday

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Dunno if anyone has posted this already but as it
turns out...
https://nintendoeverything.com/sakurai-on-smash-bros-ultimate-why-incineroar-was-chosen-and-more/

Slots do exist.

“So, I left one character frame open for Pokémon, and after Pokémon: Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon came out I took another look at it. That resulted in Incineroar being chosen.”

He calls them character frames though, thoughts?
does this mean I was right when I said Steve would take up a slot lol don't kill me
 

Ramen Tengoku

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Dunno if anyone has posted this already but as it
turns out...
https://nintendoeverything.com/sakurai-on-smash-bros-ultimate-why-incineroar-was-chosen-and-more/

Slots do exist.

“So, I left one character frame open for Pokémon, and after Pokémon: Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon came out I took another look at it. That resulted in Incineroar being chosen.”

He calls them character frames though, thoughts?
So he waited until Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon's release (And not Sun and Moon's) to choose Incineroar instead of actually looking at the documents?
That was a late 2017 game...
Incineroar must've been a pretty late addition. No wonder he was the final revealed base character
 

Swamp Sensei

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Mayhaps the suits picked the DLC this time because last time they weren't all equally profitable.
Do we have any real proof on that? I think we only know that Smash DLC in general sold gangbusters.
 

Luigi The President

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I think that sounds more appealing to Square then “Maybe we’ll sell a few more SNES classics”.

Nintendo is going to communicate with Square on a new rep, they’re not just going to grab which ever one they want. I don’t see how Geno benefits Square at all and he maybe sells a few more classics for Nintendo.
Sure, maybe to Square, but how is that gonna feel for NINTENDO? The case I just described sure helps Square...but really ****s over Nintendo.
 

J0eyboi

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Dunno if anyone has posted this already but as it
turns out...
https://nintendoeverything.com/sakurai-on-smash-bros-ultimate-why-incineroar-was-chosen-and-more/

Slots do exist.

“So, I left one character frame open for Pokémon, and after Pokémon: Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon came out I took another look at it. That resulted in Incineroar being chosen.”

He calls them character frames though, thoughts?
I don't think that's what he meant. Sakurai has stated in the past that he includes all the characters for the game in his project plan, which is why Rex is a Mii costume now. Given that US&UM released in late 2017 and he would've made the project plan the year before, he probably meant that he left a spot open in the project plan for a Pokemon back when it was finalized.
 

The DanMan051

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and once it did come out, it wasn't very well-received.
High 80s on metacritic, 1.8 million units shipped by the end of the 2015-2016 fiscal year... "not very well received" my ass. The vocal echo chamber doesn't reflect jack in terms of critical and commercial success; oftentimes, it runs directly counter to them.
 
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Deathcarter

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Characters like Geno would make sense if it was Sakurai choosing the DLC but I can't think of any reason why Nintendo would ever put in the likes of Geno, Banjo, or some other requested niche 3rd party over any of their own characters with similar fanfare like Skull Kid, Springman, Bandana Dee, Rex, or especially Waluigi.
 

Luigi The President

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Characters like Geno would make sense if it was Sakurai choosing the DLC but I can't think of any reason why Nintendo would ever put in the likes of Geno, Banjo, or some other requested niche 3rd party over any of their own characters with similar fanfare like Skull Kid, Springman, Bandana Dee, Rex, or especially Waluigi.
"Springman, Skull Kid, Rex, Waluigi"
So I got some bad news
 

TheCJBrine

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Dunno if anyone has posted this already but as it
turns out...
https://nintendoeverything.com/sakurai-on-smash-bros-ultimate-why-incineroar-was-chosen-and-more/

Slots do exist.

“So, I left one character frame open for Pokémon, and after Pokémon: Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon came out I took another look at it. That resulted in Incineroar being chosen.”

He calls them character frames though, thoughts?
Still doesn't justify "X CHARACTER STOLE Y CHARACTER'S SLOT!!!1!1" especially since Pokemon are usually planned anyway.
 

Capybara Gaming

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I thought Dracula, Galleom and the bosses were controlled like the characters were.

It's real hard to imagine Balder working for that thing.
I figured Balder would think that Galeem looks like an angel. Galeem is a being of light, and Balder is the last of the Lumen Sages, who serve the light.
 

StrawHatX

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Sure, maybe to Square, but how is that gonna feel for NINTENDO? The case I just described sure helps Square...but really ****s over Nintendo.
I don’t get why people think Geno is the massive dollar sign to Nintendo compared to putting a character like Sora into the game. Even if we got no KH games in the Switch he’s still a far more popular character that would attract more people to the game than Geno.

Again, at best he maybe gets a few more SNES classics sold. That’s all he is going to do. Sora has far more potential for advertising.

If Sakurai was making these decisions then I would give the edge to Geno because Sakurai has said before he’d like to have him as a fighter.

I think there was a reason Sakurai tweeted out the Nintendo was making these picks and not himself. Probably to let the Smash community know not to get their hopes up with the DLC selection. Why else would he feel the need to let us know that?
 

doomedtacox

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My last point about throwing a bone was solely about the Splash Screen for the Mii Costume.

I totally understand your points.

But...it's Smash DLC. It's insanely profitable regardless of who it is, I think both companies understand this.
That doesn't mean it's all equally profitable. Nintendo is out to maximize their profits, not settle for just what is "insanely profitable". Even selling 2.5 mil DLC vs 2 mil DLC is a $3mil difference.
 

doomedtacox

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I don’t get why people think Geno is the massive dollar sign to Nintendo compared to putting a character like Sora into the game. Even if we got no KH games in the Switch he’s still a far more popular character that would attract more people to the game than Geno.

Again, at best he maybe gets a few more SNES classics sold. That’s all he is going to do. Sora has far more potential for advertising.

If Sakurai was making these decisions then I would give the edge to Geno because Sakurai has said before he’d like to have him as a fighter.

I think there was a reason Sakurai tweeted out the Nintendo was making these picks and not himself. Probably to let the Smash community know not to get their hopes up with the DLC selection. Why else would he feel the need to let us know that?
He isn't a massive dollar sign, it's only the geno fans that think that.
 

Luigi The President

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I don’t get why people think Geno is the massive dollar sign to Nintendo compared to putting a character like Sora into the game. Even if we got no KH games in the Switch he’s still a far more popular character that would attract more people to the game than Geno.

Again, at best he maybe gets a few more SNES classics sold. That’s all he is going to do. Sora has far more potential for advertising.

If Sakurai was making these decisions then I would give the edge to Geno because Sakurai has said before he’d like to have him as a fighter.

I think there was a reason Sakurai tweeted out the Nintendo was making these picks and not himself. Probably to let the Smash community know not to get their hopes up with the DLC selection. Why else would he feel the need to let us know that?
That isn't my point dude. Obviously Sora is a bigger dollar sign. But the thing is his inclusion as DLC is not gonna outweigh some of the cons he brings. He's promoting direct competition, why do people keep shrugging this point off?

Also-because Sakurai is a very transparent creator. He always has been.

That doesn't mean it's all equally profitable. Nintendo is out to maximize their profits, not settle for just what is "insanely profitable". Even selling 2.5 mil DLC vs 2 mil DLC is a $3mil difference.
You're right.
 

Luigi The President

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He's saying that if those characters couldn't get in, neither will Geno.
I don't...really see what these characters have to do with each other?
"If Nintendo isn't gonna promote their all-stars like Springman and Skull Kid, sorry Piranha Plant fans, you lose!"
Swap out PP for K. Rool if you wanted to, even.
 

Ignoritus

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So I'll say this much about Geno:

I don't think his chances are zero. The only reason I don't think his chances are zero is because I believe Vergeben, and while he doesn't make sense as a choice basically every other possible Square Rep feels like a really dubious choice as well.

A Dragon Quest character is being touted as a likely choice, but I stand by my previous statement that I really doubt it. Dragon Quest is a "literal who" franchise in the west, and I doubt Nintendo want to pick out a character who's going to sell like garbage in most of the world. People like to claim "cross-promotion!", but Nintendo don't even own Dragon Quest. I could see them being willing to sacrifice DLC sales to cross-promote a first-party character they're profiting directly from, but to promote a third-party character from games on their system? Nah.

Sora I think very much fits the bill of a character that would fit right in for Smash, but I do acknowledge the points that adding Sora is advertising a game that's not even coming to a Nintendo platform, and that the licensing hell may turn Nintendo off. Someone pointed out that Ryu, Cloud, and Snake all potentially advertised games that were not coming to a Nintendo console, but that neglects to consider that those selections were made and the licensing was handled purely by Sakurai. Let Nintendo itself make the decisions and they're more likely to consider how selections influence the company as a whole as opposed to just Smash Bros. I don't think Sora is impossible, I just think this creates some obstacles in the way of him being an "obvious choice".

What else do Square have? Not a lot. Every other Final Fantasy character suffers from a lack of iconicism (save perhaps Sephiroth) to pull in sales, or the same problem as Sora of not even hailing from a game on a Nintendo platform. Same goes for Lara Croft (who I suspect Sakurai would also reject as infeasible due to his gun rules). Most of their other characters are simply not popular enough to justify dealing with licensing and sharing DLC sales.

That said, where does this leave Geno? Geno has a couple of things in his favor. For one, I really doubt Sakurai was completely excluded from decision making. Nintendo may have compiled the list on their own, but I think it's likely Sakurai had some voice and input in the discussion. Between that and their access to the ballot, the fan demand is surely noted. Geno is also relatively easy to license from Square since there's no other companies involved, and they've already gotten the rights to his likeness once. Geno has a sizable and vocal fanbase who would drum up excitement and hype and possibly get people who don't know about the character excited to buy him.

But his boons pretty much end there. And then reality sets in: If they want to hit fan favorites, why Geno? Sure, he's popular within the Smash fanbase. But even if they were going for a character popular in the Smash fanbase, there are easier choices to pull from the ballot. Bandana Waddle Dee is projected to have done super well in Japan and decently in the states. That's a modern character that is still receiving games (and thus promotes for them), and has no licensing weight attached to it. Why in the world would Nintendo pick the puppet over a character like that? And he's not the only one. I'm sure they have at least a dozen solid choices from the ballot that are easier to implement and with more benefit than Geno.

So yeah, I don't think Geno has hit 0% yet simply because I think the alternatives for a "Square Rep" have some pretty solid arguments against them on their own. But the arguments against Geno are potentially stronger than any of them, so I wouldn't get too hopeful.
 

doomedtacox

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That isn't my point dude. Obviously Sora is a bigger dollar sign. But the thing is his inclusion as DLC is not gonna outweigh some of the cons he brings. He's promoting direct competition, why do people keep shrugging this point off?
.
Well not necessarily, we don't know if some old Kingdom hearts games are being ported to the switch or not. Square could be in the process of doing so and Sakurai/Nintendo would be aware.

And even if they aren't being ported, I don't think it would negatively impact Nintendo in any way, they'd just get a hell of a lot of DLC sales and some extra smash sales.
 

Luigi The President

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Well not necessarily, we don't know if some old Kingdom hearts games are being ported to the switch or not. Square could be in the process of doing so and Sakurai/Nintendo would be aware.

And even if they aren't being ported, I don't think it would negatively impact Nintendo in any way, they'd just get a hell of a lot of DLC sales and some extra smash sales.
Microsoft could be in the process of porting Banjo-Kazooie. Does this seem plausible to you?

Also, no, it would negatively impact...I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just tired of pointing out how promoting KH3 is nothing but detrimental to them as it stands.
 

The DanMan051

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The only reason I don't think his chances are zero is because I believe Vergeben, and while he doesn't make sense as a choice basically every other possible Square Rep feels like a really dubious choice as well.
And Vergeben openly said not long after the mentioned the SE character that he and his sources ignore any instance of Geno being brought up/"Geno isn't seriously considered".

To me at last, that's an aggressively backhanded deconfirmation if there ever was one.
 
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