Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Noipoi]

I say let the fans do it. Combine the stage builder with break the targets and let us post our challenges to each other online.

Some absolute mad man would have break the targets stages for every character in a day.

 

[Dyllybirdy]

Break the Targets most likely won't return. It's implausible getting 70+ stages for it and that's what most people want it, apparently.

Yeah, that may be a bit much... I can only hope...

 

[Idon]

I say let the fans do it. Combine the stage builder with break the targets and let us post our challenges to each other online.

Mario maker except it's break the targets.
Smash maker.

 

[StellerRJay]

I say let the fans do it. Combine the stage builder with break the targets and let us post our challenges to each other online.

That's a pretty neat idea! Break the targets would never become stale in that case. And we'll get to see all the crazy lengths people would go to make the targets as impossible to break as possible. I just hope they take a page from Super Mario Maker and make it so the creator has to beat their own stage first before being able to upload it. Or else it would be absolute chaos!~

 

[NineS]

Mother Brain hasn't been in anything for decades unless you count the GBA remake of Metroid 1 in 2004.

Sylux has a pretty much 100% chance of being the main antagonist of Prime 4. They've been building him up for 3 games now.

Ridley will probably appear, but he's not usually the main antagonist. We already have him and Dark Samus anyways, so does it matter much if he overshadows Sylux overall?

It's important to keep in mind the timeline of the Metroid franchise. (Yes, there's a timeline.)
Canonically speaking, the final appearance of Mother Brain is in Super Metroid.
All the prime games take place before it, this one included. It's very possible we will see her/him/it in some form. Unlikely, but possible.
she also technically appeared in the unspoken metroid game, albeit in a flashback.

As for Ridley? Well, there's no doubt we'll see Ridley. The prime games take place before Super Metroid, and most likely before Metroid 2's remake as well.
Ridley did seem to take the lead in the remake as the one true actual Antagonist, everything else was more of animalistic creatures fending for themselves and abandoned machines.
Ridley will likely overshadow Sylux, though. Not in the sense that he's going to become the primary antagonist, but more in the sense that he's... Well, Ridley Samus and him already have a pretty long history, and he'll likely be a re-occuring or constantly hinted at threat throughout the game.
I do think Ridley's role in the story, as is the role of the Space Pirates is, is Sylux with the Space Pirates? Or against them too? We know he's against Samus for being associated with the Galactic Feds. But not much about his history with space pirates, which will undoubtely be involved somehow.

Sylux is undoubtedly the antagonist of Prime 4. Or at least, he'll be one of them. If he isn't, all I can think of is that they pull a Zelda and make him a pseudo-antagonist, secretly having been working for a bigger threat the entire time who shows up at the last minute. (Like Ghirahim does for Demise. Or, Zant for Ganondorf. etc.)

All in all, the next Prime game (assuming it doesn't flop) will likely make Sylux a very important character and delve into who he/it is more, why "he" hates the Galactic Feds, and if he's with or against the Space Pirates as well. Mother Brain could potentially show up, and Ridley will definitely overshadow him in some way. (I mean, how could he not? Have you seen the size of that lad?) i'm kidding.

 

[FreeFox]

I say let the fans do it. Combine the stage builder with break the targets and let us post our challenges to each other online.

Excellent! I could bring terror just like I did with stage builder the past two smashes and have some fun doing the "break the targets" challenges of other players.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Saw Sylux talk again. I keep saying this, but we REALLY need to see Prime 4 to get sold on it as Sylux, while treated with more attention than quite a few characters with all that foreshadowing, needs that foreshadowing to actually pay off. Imagine if Thanos was just a boring villain in the MCU after all those years of build up. Cause Sylux has similar pressure

 

[ChronoBound]

There are six empty stage spots on the character selection screen, yet only five stages are going to be part of the Fighters Pass. Is the extra empty space for the training room in training mode, or do you think there will be a stand alone DLC stage (like what happened with Super Mario Maker)?

 

[A.G.L.]

It's NonSpecificGuy 's regular argument against Sora. It's brought up every time we talk about him lol.

It makes sense, but I believe it plays up Corporate Disney as the big corporate fun police that everyone believes them to be, and downplays Square's involvement in negotiations. While negotiations would mainly be around Nintendo and Disney, Normura and Square Enix would still have some say in it, and that's overlooked. All I'm saying is that Disney would be more willing to work with Nintendo if Normura and Square Enix light a fire under them. Also, a deal between Nintendo and Square Enix, say for Kingdom Hearts games on the Switch, could be used as a bargaining chip with Disney.

Additionally, A.G.L. brought up an interesting point about Nintendo working with different multimedia companies, namely Universal and Warner Brothers, for movies and other entertainment ventures, which raises the very real possibility that Nintendo and Disney struck a deal for a movie or series of some sort that we don't know about. It's a hypothetical, but still a valid point. Besides that, Nintendo and Disney already have a relatively positive reputation, and if negotiations take place with Disney Japan, the vice president has already expressed interest in Sora's inclusion. I understand that he's one person, but negotiations would be much easier if there is support/pressure from inside the company to include him.

Also, it's ****ing Smash Bros., the most prestigious crossover fighter and celebration of gaming as a whole. I understand Disney wants loads of money and Smash DLC won't make them oodles of cash, but the promotion they get by putting Sora in Smash is being severely underestimated.

What I'm saying is that, while yes, negotiations for Sora would be difficult, they likely wouldn't be as difficult as they are made out to be.

I agree with what you are saying, yes Disney can be strict, and yes of course they want money. However if we throw in the fact that Nintendo may already be working with Disney on Wreck it Ralph 2 then we can assume Disney may lend out its characters. We know Disney let Sega use Wreck it Ralph in Sonic & All Stars racing. Whats to stop them from lending out Sora a less important character to the company to Nintendo? Especially given the fact they may already be in a partnership with Nintendo for Wreck It Ralph2. Heres the thing people over play Disney's importance in this issue, when in reality its more likely it would be Nintendo that would stop him from getting into Smash not Disney. Sora has not even been used in theme parks, its rare to find anything related to Kingdom Hearts in Disney Parks. Yet Wreck it Ralph who is arguably the bigger Disney concern was lent out to Sonic & All Stars. If Disney were going to be picky about lending characters Disney would be more concerned with Wreck it Ralph than Sora. So we have to keep that in mind and keep in mind that Disney and Nintendo may already be working together in Wreck it Ralph2. If this is the case its highly likely they would allow Sora in Smash.

 

[Zinith]

Saw Sylux talk again. I keep saying this, but we REALLY need to see Prime 4 to get sold on it as Sylux, while treated with more attention than quite a few characters with all that foreshadowing, needs that foreshadowing to actually pay off. Imagine if Thanos was just a boring villain in the MCU after all those years of build up. Cause Sylux has similar pressure

Building up Sylux even PREDATES the MCU as that ending tease was from MP3 in 2007...

 

[Cereal Bawks]

I know the topics moved away from this but I was thinking about why the whole "lance/axe would make FE characters so much more unique" argument bugged me so much.

I think it has more to do with variety than uniqueness.

 

[praline]

There are six empty stage spots on the character selection screen, yet only five stages are going to be part of the Fighters Pass. Is the extra empty space for the training room in training mode, or do you think there will be a stand alone DLC stage (like what happened with Super Mario Maker)?

Probably neither.

 

[Idon]

I think it has more to do with variety than uniqueness.

What exactly is that supposed to mean?
By being unique, you are, invariably, making variety.

 

[FreeFox]

There are six empty stage spots on the character selection screen, yet only five stages are going to be part of the Fighters Pass. Is the extra empty space for the training room in training mode, or do you think there will be a stand alone DLC stage (like what happened with Super Mario Maker)?

Is that including or excluding ?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Building up Sylux even PREDATES the MCU as that ending tease was from MP3 in 2007...

True but the Metroid series as a whole became dormant after that, whereas the MCU got like 3 movies a year, making the build up needing to pay off even more I'd argue, as people just ended up wanting another Metroid game regardless of story or whatnot

 

[osby]

Saw Sylux talk again. I keep saying this, but we REALLY need to see Prime 4 to get sold on it as Sylux, while treated with more attention than quite a few characters with all that foreshadowing, needs that foreshadowing to actually pay off. Imagine if Thanos was just a boring villain in the MCU after all those years of build up. Cause Sylux has similar pressure

You're missing the point: He's from Metroid and not an anime swordfighter, he obviously would be a great addition, who cares if he's good in Prime 4 or not?

 

[Lyndis_]

It's important to keep in mind the timeline of the Metroid franchise. (Yes, there's a timeline.)
Canonically speaking, the final appearance of Mother Brain is in Super Metroid.
All the prime games take place before it, this one included. It's very possible we will see her/him/it in some form. Unlikely, but possible.

As for Ridley? Well, there's no doubt we'll see Ridley. The prime games take place before Super Metroid, and most likely before Metroid 2's remake as well.
Ridley did seem to take the lead in the remake as the one true actual Antagonist, everything else was more of animalistic creatures fending for themselves and abandoned machines.
Ridley will likely overshadow Sylux, though. Not in the sense that he's going to become the primary antagonist, but more in the sense that he's... Well, Ridley Samus and him already have a pretty long history, and he'll likely be a re-occuring or constantly hinted at threat throughout the game.
I do think Ridley's role in the story, as is the role of the Space Pirates is, is Sylux with the Space Pirates? Or against them too? We know he's against Samus for being associated with the Galactic Feds. But not much about his history with space pirates, which will undoubtely be involved somehow.

Sylux is undoubtedly the antagonist of Prime 4. Or at least, he'll be one of them. If he isn't, all I can think of is that they pull a Zelda and make him a pseudo-antagonist, secretly having been working for a bigger threat the entire time who shows up at the last minute. (Like Ghirahim does for Demise. Or, Zant for Ganondorf. etc.)

I'm aware of the timeline but it really isn't important or relevant at all to what I was saying, though. Mother Brain isn't going to show up in any Prime game so it's pretty likely we're not going to see them again unless it's in a flashback cutscene like Other M which has no reason to happen, and Ridley overshadowing Sylux isn't important either because he's not competing with Sylux for a spot in Smash, we have Ridley already.

It is likely that Ridley will appear, but it's not a guarantee. He wasn't in Prime 2 at all and if they're going the route of a new antagonist like they did for Prime 2 it wouldn't surprise me if they took a different direction instead of sticking him in, Samus Returns already fills in the gap between Prime 3 and Super fine enough.

 

[Impa4Smash]

There are six empty stage spots on the character selection screen, yet only five stages are going to be part of the Fighters Pass. Is the extra empty space for the training room in training mode, or do you think there will be a stand alone DLC stage (like what happened with Super Mario Maker)?

Probably to leave a space for an arrow. Ya know, in case there’s a second page to put more DLC stages

 

[NineS]

While everyone is talking about Sylux in MP4, I'm just trying to figure out what Nintendo is going to do to bring Ridley back from the dead the Metroid game after MP4.

Are they going to pull an Adam Malkovich from Fusion, and say the original Ridley's consciousness was stored in some computer somewhere and it's just being downloaded into another body? Make another Roidley?
Or just go the sensible route and say Ridley fled Planet Zebes after Samus defeated him in Super Metroid? Because that seems like the most logical and easy explanation to me.

You can't keep down. I mean, his title is literally "cunning god of death".

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I agree with what you are saying, yes Disney can be strict, and yes of course they want money. However if we throw in the fact that Nintendo may already be working with Disney on Wreck it Ralph 2 then we can assume Disney may lend out its characters. We know Disney let Sega use Wreck it Ralph in Sonic & All Stars racing. Whats to stop them from lending out Sora a less important character to the company to Nintendo? Especially given the fact they may already be in a partnership with Nintendo for Wreck It Ralph2. Heres the thing people over play Disney's importance in this issue, when in reality its more likely it would be Nintendo that would stop him from getting into Smash not Disney. Sora has not even been used in theme parks, its rare to find anything related to Kingdom Hearts in Disney Parks. Yet Wreck it Ralph who is arguably the bigger Disney concern was lent out to Sonic & All Stars. If Disney were going to be picky about lending characters Disney would be more concerned with Wreck it Ralph than Sora. So we have to keep that in mind and keep in mind that Disney and Nintendo may already be working together in Wreck it Ralph2. If this is the case its highly likely they would allow Sora in Smash.

There's an interesting concept. If Mario characters are indeed in Ralph Breaks the Internet then it would be easier to blend negotiations for Smash Bros. While Disney is already in talks with Nintendo. As I've said before it's far easier to get from Disney when they're trying to get something from you first, a la Ralph in All-Stars Racing.

However, a recent interview made it sound like Mario isn't in the movie at all. So.

I honestly think people are downplaying Disney's part in this. People bring up, "Ah this one guy said Nomura can do whatever he want so Sora can be in Smash because Nomura can work with Nintendo" isn't exactly correct. There are far, FAR more business talks that have to take place and make their way up the company ladder for Sora to happen.

 

[Impa4Smash]

If we ever get DLC skins I hope Pikachu gets his little deerstalker hat

 

[PsySmasher]

Is that including or excluding ?

doesn't come with a stage though.

 

[KMDP]

That's a pretty neat idea! Break the targets would never become stale in that case. And we'll get to see all the crazy lengths people would go to make the targets as impossible to break as possible. I just hope they take a page from Super Mario Maker and make it so the creator has to beat their own stage first before being able to upload it. Or else it would be absolute chaos!~

The problem with user-made Break the Targets is that there's nothing stopping users from posting from posting 0 Effort stages (they can prevent impossible ones if they're tied to specific characters, through the same method that Super Mario Maker stages are vetted).

In order to prevent people from creating BTT stages that are just flat planes with all 10 targets lined up in a row (and you know people will swamp the server with stages like this), you'd either need to vet the stages with real people (unfeasible) or create some kind of path-finding algorithm that checks the distance between each target (but it would probably have to be a rather complex one because Targets can sometimes be very close together but on opposites side of a wall in a way that requires long distances to get to).

I wonder if people would pay for a DLC pack that contains a Break the Targets for each character?

 

[Dyllybirdy]

However, a recent interview made it sound like Mario isn't in the movie at all. So.

That's unfortunate. Would have been nice to see him in that film. :/

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Ridley will probably appear, but he's not usually the main antagonist.

Isn't Ridley canonically dead tho?

Edit: Nevermind didn't realize there was a chronological order.

 

[Impa4Smash]

Isn't Ridley canonically dead tho?

Edit: Nevermind didn't realize there was a chronological order.

Maybe they just retcon it like oh yeah we actually made TWO clones of Ridley

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm aware of the timeline but it really isn't important or relevant at all to what I was saying, though. Mother Brain isn't going to show up in any Prime game so it's pretty likely we're not going to see them again unless it's in a flashback cutscene like Other M which has no reason to happen, and Ridley overshadowing Sylux isn't important either because he's not competing with Sylux for a spot in Smash, we have Ridley already.

It is likely that Ridley will appear, but it's not a guarantee. He wasn't in Prime 2 at all and if they're going the route of a new antagonist like they did for Prime 2 it wouldn't surprise me if they took a different direction instead of sticking him in, Samus Returns already fills in the gap between Prime 3 and Super fine enough.

Actually in game data suggests Prime 2 did plan Ridley appearing again alongside some concept art for Dark Meta Ridley iirc. Remember, Prime 2 was made in a single year or so meaning it got rushed. I'd like to see Kraid return too personally, he was planned in Prime 1 after all

 

[Noipoi]

Isn't Ridley canonically dead tho?

Edit: Nevermind didn't realize there was a chronological order.

Ridley's only dead for as long as he wants to be.

 

[Good Guy Giygas]

Isn't Ridley canonically dead tho?

They always find a new way to revive him in some form, a la Meta Ridley, Mecha Ridley, etc.

I can see it now: Daisy Ridley.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

They always find a new way to revive him in some form, a la Meta Ridley, Mecha Ridley, etc.

I can see it now: Daisy Ridley.

Then Nintendo gets sued for using celebrities without credit

 

[LetterO]

Ridley seems to be mid-low tier by alot of players.

He then strikes back in the next update and dethrones Pikachu.

Ridley never dies.

 

[A.G.L.]

There's an interesting concept. If Mario characters are indeed in Ralph Breaks the Internet then it would be easier to blend negotiations for Smash Bros. While Disney is already in talks with Nintendo. As I've said before it's far easier to get from Disney when they're trying to get something from you first, a la Ralph in All-Stars Racing.

However, a recent interview made it sound like Mario isn't in the movie at all. So.

I honestly think people are downplaying Disney's part in this. People bring up, "Ah this one guy said Nomura can do whatever he want so Sora can be in Smash because Nomura can work with Nintendo" isn't exactly correct. There are far, FAR more business talks that have to take place and make their way up the company ladder for Sora to happen.

The only thing that hurts this arguement is that people in Disney Parks have heard a remixed version of Mario Kart in EPCOT at the Wreck it Ralph 2 exhibit. Disney would know that Nintendo would immediately pounce on them for using music they weren't licensed to use. So its most likely that a Mario reference is appearing in the movie somehow. Especially since its a remade version of the Mario Kart track that you can't find anywhere else. This means Disney most likely remade the song.

I agree that one person can't speak for the whole company, but it definitely helps he is the Vice President of Disney Japan. And agree Nomura wouldn't just do whatever he wanted without consulting Disney. However if we take into the fact that Nintendo and Disney are working together in Wreck It Ralph 2 then the possibility of Sora opens up quite a bit.

 

[PsySmasher]

Isn't Ridley canonically dead tho?

Edit: Nevermind didn't realize there was a chronological order.

Ridley been killed more times times than Goku (if you include the clones of him).
He himself has been killed twice.
But including clones, I think it's 5 deaths... if I recall correctly.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

You know what the Metroid series needs in a future installment.

Dark Ridley.

 

[Impa4Smash]

You know what the Metroid series needs in a future installment.

Dark Ridley.

And Dark Ridley is actually a really nice guy that helps Samus defeat regular Ridley and get over the deaths of her parents

 

[Noipoi]

You know what the Metroid series needs in a future installment.

Dark Ridley.

I want Samus and Ridley to team up against a bigger threat.
They'd be a kick ass team.

 

[Good Guy Giygas]

Then Nintendo gets sued for using celebrities without credit

Unless that's MP4's biggest kept secret and she's actually voicing/mo-capping the new Ridley. Wouldn't that be a twist.

 

[osby]

You know what the Metroid series needs in a future installment.

Dark Ridley.

Knowing Metroid, he'd be just some weird alien possessing Meta Ridley or something.

 

[Impa4Smash]

I want Samus and Ridley to team up against a bigger threat.
They'd be a kick *** team.

Im sure most fans would say this would ruin his character (and they’d be right) but **** it I’d be down for this team up

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I want Samus and Ridley to team up against a bigger threat.
They'd be a kick *** team.

Doubt that'll ever happen considering how sadistic, brutal and evil Ridley is. He did kill her parents yo. He has no remorse or mercy for his actions. If Metroid wasn't Nintendo he'd probably be a lot more brutal on-screen since it'd be Rated M.

Ridley makes guys like Bowser, Ganondorf and King K. Rool (Granted stealing a bunch of bananas so the Kongs could starve is pretty low...) seem tame. Only one that could top him in terms of evilness is Porky.