Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[beans]

I don't get it. Am I just different? I love taking showers and being clean in general. Who wouldn't want to take a warm, relaxing shower with the added benefit of smelling good afterwards?

Gotta train those high level techniques tho. Cant Perfet L-cancel Pivot Parry in the shower.

That may be your opinion but Chrono Cross was fantastic.

Shhh. Someone might listen to your opinions.

If Geno is a sacrefice to get Crono in. It's a worthy sacrefice my man.

Dont make me choose between my two SNES era bois.
I cant leave Pinnochio or Tapion out.

 

[A.G.L.]

I ain’t saying Disney is is possible to work with, I’m saying that maybe Disney would be difficult to work with. Say Sakurai asks Nomura about Sora. Nomura asks people at Disney about it and it travels up the corporate ladder. It reaches the bigwigs, and all they see is something that benefits Nintendo more than Disney themselves. They have no reason to accept it, so they decline. That’s a possible scenario. And it’s not like Nintendo and Disney are on great terms. Nintendo is working with Illumination, a rival to Disney animation, for the Mario movie. Sure, Disney might not care about something like sora, but they also have no reason to accept a deal like this. They’re larger than Nintendo and all this would be doing would be licensing a Disney ip out for little benefit. Like I said, I’m not a law guy so i might not be educated on the intricacies of this, but that’s just something worth keeping in mind. Ultimately none of us know what goes on in the upper echelons of Disney, so we can only spitball, and based on what I know, I think Disney would be a troublesome company.

Except the vice president of Disney Japan already said Disney would be willing to let Square put Sora in a Smash game. Also Disney may be working with Nintendo on Wreck It Ralph2. Park goers heard a remix version of Mario Kart outside of the Wreck It Ralph 2 exhibit. It makes sense Nintendo has been partnering with a lot of non game companies lately like Comcast and Warner Brothers. Why not partner with the biggest media company? Nintendo is smart and wouldn't want to lose that bridge with Disney, its very likely that both Disney and Nintendo are on good terms. Also Nintendo is working with Warner Brothers also, which is a rival to Comcast. So the idea that they will not work with Disney because they are working with a rival company is not something we can use. Its very likely if Disney wants Sora in they will work with Nintendo and Square.

 

[Will]

But Toon Link

What part of "you can't convince me otherwise" do you not understand?

#cantjumpgang

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Honestly, even as the biggest Sora defender. I'm thinking he won't be in. Not for MUH DISNEY or whatever, since I'm 1000000% sure his name dropped.
But I believe DQ will win it all, with Erdrick. And I wouldn't be mad, honestly if I had to rate chance.

Dragon Quest Rep (whenever it's a Hero or Slime) : 65%
Crono: 55%
Sora: 45%
Another FF rep: 30% (Varying on who it is, can go up to 50% but I wouldn't hold on this)
Geno: 25%

Pretty much this. It all lines up for Dragon Quest, which is unfortunate because pretty much no matter what they do it'll never be as popular in the West and Europe than in Japan.

However, in terms of the Disney discussion, I think we underestimate how much of an influence Square Enix has in the negotiations. If Nintendo and Square Enix go to Disney together, let's say with a deal for Kingdom Hearts on Switch and something else (like the Game Show), then Disney would be more willing to play ball. Disney also respects Square Enix, and negotiations could be much easier if they want Sora in.

 

[Raxxel]

What part of "you can't convince me otherwise" do you not understand?

#cantjumpgang

Well, that aside, while I don't think Captain Toad will be DLC, nor do I want him, what exactly do you have against him?

 

[doomedtacox]

Not Captain Toad because he's in the background of New Donk.

View attachment 177857

You can't convince me otherwise. If I got warned because of me relishing his deconfirmation then you know I ain't gonna change my mind.

Isn't piranha plant in the background of some maps?

 

[Graizen]

Personally I think we'll be getting at least two first party, I'd say one of your last two choices will be a first party.

There is a Bandai Namco DLC character.
Thats 100%

 

[doomedtacox]

There is a Bandai Namco DLC character.
Thats 100%

Based on what.

 

[Ring-a-Sheep]

Gotta train those high level techniques tho. Cant Perfet L-cancel Pivot Parry in the shower.

The real strat is asking melee luigi for some of the soap he uses, that way you stay clean while also keeping your smash license.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Except the vice president of Disney Japan already said Disney would be willing to let Square put Sora in a Smash game. Also Disney may be working with Nintendo on Wreck It Ralph2. Park goers heard a remix version of Mario Kart outside of the Wreck It Ralph 2 exhibit. It makes sense Nintendo has been partnering with a lot of non game companies lately like Comcast and Warner Brothers. Why not partner with the biggest media company? Nintendo is smart and wouldn't want to lose that bridge with Disney, its very likely that both Disney and Nintendo are on good terms. Also Nintendo is working with Warner Brothers also, which is a rival to Comcast. So the idea that they will not work with Disney because they are working with a rival company is not something we can use. Its very likely if Disney wants Sora in they will work with Nintendo and Square.

I'd very much like a source for that.

Also, pretty sure it was either hinted at or confirmed that Mario won't be in Wreck-It-Ralph 2.

 

[Will]

Isn't piranha plant in the background of some maps?

as a pixelated plant, yes
king dedede is also in the background of dream land 64

those were preexisting backgrounds, as captain toad is a recent addition to an an entirely new stage.

Well, that aside, while I don't think Captain Toad will be DLC, nor do I want him, what exactly do you have against him?

i have a very specific cringe against things that go against lore
ness using psi he can't use doesn't affect me as much as shulk having nonexistent monado arts or captain toad jumping, because at least pk fire is a concept that exists

 

[KingofKoopas]

Based on what.

Hitagi made it clear in no uncertain terms. Twice now actually.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I still believe in Sora by the way, I just don't believe he's as confirmed as I have since Spawn Wave made his first statements.

Let's hope he goes 10 for 10 at the VGAs.

 

[KingofKoopas]

I still believe in Sora by the way, I just don't believe he's as confirmed as I have since Spawn Wave made his first statements.

Let's hope he goes 10 for 10 at the VGAs.

If it turns out Mickey's ears is what won the Sora debate I will laugh hysterically.

 

[PsySmasher]

But Toon Link

Two words buddy: Backpack Gravity

But in all seriousness, I do think Captain Toad is out of the running, as much as I want him to be in.

 

[doomedtacox]

Hitagi made it clear in no uncertain terms. Twice now actually.

Yeah and he's also backtracked on Katalina now, I don't take what he says as law like I do with Verge. Regardless, I do think Heihachi/Lloyd have a good chance.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Hitagi made it clear in no uncertain terms. Twice now actually.

So our current DLC lineup is:

• Steve
• Square Enix rep
• Namco rep
• Nintendo swordfighter (that isn't Legend of Zelda or Xenoblade)
• ???

The "???" could be Katalina, but we don't know who.

Pretty much, it's shaping out to be this:

• Steve
• Sora/DQ Rep/Geno
• Lloyd Irving
• Euden/Matthew/Celica/Edelgard
• ???

I wouldn't be disappointed with this lineup.

 

[dezeray112]

Honestly, even as the biggest Sora defender. I'm thinking he won't be in. Not for MUH DISNEY or whatever, since I'm 1000000% sure his name dropped.
But I believe DQ will win it all, with Erdrick. And I wouldn't be mad, honestly if I had to rate chance.

Dragon Quest Rep (whenever it's a Hero or Slime) : 65%
Crono: 55%
Sora: 45%
Another FF rep: 30% (Varying on who it is, can go up to 50% but I wouldn't hold on this)
Geno: 25%

For me, whilst it is hard for me to predict who will be the playable Square Enix character, if they were to put a Dragon Quest rep, I would opt for either DQXI's Jade or DQVIII's Jessica. Personally I don't mind Sora's inclusion as playable character too.

 

[Deleted member]

Except the vice president of Disney Japan already said Disney would be willing to let Square put Sora in a Smash game. Also Disney may be working with Nintendo on Wreck It Ralph2. Park goers heard a remix version of Mario Kart outside of the Wreck It Ralph 2 exhibit. It makes sense Nintendo has been partnering with a lot of non game companies lately like Comcast and Warner Brothers. Why not partner with the biggest media company? Nintendo is smart and wouldn't want to lose that bridge with Disney, its very likely that both Disney and Nintendo are on good terms. Also Nintendo is working with Warner Brothers also, which is a rival to Comcast. So the idea that they will not work with Disney because they are working with a rival company is not something we can use. Its very likely if Disney wants Sora in they will work with Nintendo and Square.

You raise some interesting points.
On your first point, while that is true, ultimately that is one person in the giant corporate machine of Disney. He could be fine with it, but higher-ups might not. Nintendo certainly has involvement with WIR2, which is in Sora’s favour, but while that managed to get Ralph in sonic racing, smash is a far more costly and big deal than something like that. I doubt that Nintendo could just go “Hey since we’re working with you on this movie can we put Sora in smash?” It’s not unfeasable, but I doubt it.
Another thing is that Sora made ha appearance in World of Final fantasy as dlc, however due to licensing he was only available for a limited time and has never appeared again. If Sora got into smash, he would have to be dlc, so the same thing would be likely to happen. Do you think Sakurai would be willing to only have Sora available for a limited time?
Like I said, though raised some definitely valid points, I’m just giving my opinion on things.

 

[beans]

as a pixelated plant, yes
king dedede is also in the background of dream land 64

those were preexisting backgrounds, as captain toad is a recent addition to an an entirely new stage.


i have a very specific cringe against things that go against lore
ness using psi he can't use doesn't affect me as much as shulk having nonexistent monado arts or captain toad jumping, because at least pk fire is a concept that exists

I saw a move set where Captain Toad used a Cherry and a cannon to launch a double of his.
It solves the jump problem with it being a strong recovery and aerial attack, but are you really Captain Toad by the end of the match?

The real strat is asking melee luigi for some of the soap he uses, that way you stay clean while also keeping your smash license.

That soap is slippery I need to get Marth to grab it.

 

[doomedtacox]

as a pixelated plant, yes
king dedede is also in the background of dream land 64

those were preexisting backgrounds, as captain toad is a recent addition to an an entirely new stage.


i have a very specific cringe against things that go against lore
ness using psi he can't use doesn't affect me as much as shulk having nonexistent monado arts or captain toad jumping, because at least pk fire is a concept that exists

So I don't get why him being in the background deconfirms him but whatever. It just makes the map more realistic.

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly, even as the biggest Sora defender. I'm thinking he won't be in. Not for MUH DISNEY or whatever, since I'm 1000000% sure his name dropped.
But I believe DQ will win it all, with Erdrick. And I wouldn't be mad, honestly if I had to rate chance.

Dragon Quest Rep (whenever it's a Hero or Slime) : 65%
Crono: 55%
Sora: 45%
Another FF rep: 30% (Varying on who it is, can go up to 50% but I wouldn't hold on this)
Geno: 25%

You give Crono's chances too much credit. I'd bet on Neku, Agnes or an Octopath character before I bet on Crono

 

[KingofKoopas]

So our current DLC lineup is:

• Steve
• Square Enix rep
• Namco rep
• Nintendo swordfighter (that isn't Legend of Zelda or Xenoblade)
• ???

The "???" could be Katalina, but we don't know who.

Pretty much, it's shaping out to be this:

• Steve
• Sora/DQ Rep/Geno
• Lloyd Irving
• Euden/Matthew/Celica/Edelgard
• ???

I wouldn't be disappointed with this lineup.

Katalina is out dude. You may have missed that.
Edit: Also apparently the sword rep isn't FE either. Edelgard would be out too in that case.

 

[Will]

I saw a move set where Captain Toad used a Cherry and a cannon to launch a double of his.
It solves the jump problem with it being a strong recovery and aerial attack, but are you really Captain Toad by the end of the match?

you're right

cannon for smash

 

[A.G.L.]

I'd very much like a source for that.

Also, pretty sure it was either hinted at or confirmed that Mario won't be in Wreck-It-Ralph 2.

Here is the link to park goers hearing a remix track of Mario kart. And yes Mario has been de confirmed, but Bowser has not. Bowser was in the first Wreck it Ralph so its highly likely he will return. Please keep in mind when this video was uploaded Mario had not been de confirmed to appear. Still the fact there is a remix version of Mario Kart shows it will appear in some way.

As for Vice president of Disney Japan confirming they would be ok with Sora being in, here is HMK's video.

Finally Illumination Studios and Universal Studios is owned by ComCast which is making the Mario movie. However Detective Pikachu is being made by Warner Brothers, both of these companies are rivals. And yet Nintendo is working with both of them, it makes sense they may also with work with Disney as they are not staying within only one media company.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Except the vice president of Disney Japan already said Disney would be willing to let Square put Sora in a Smash game. Also Disney may be working with Nintendo on Wreck It Ralph2. Park goers heard a remix version of Mario Kart outside of the Wreck It Ralph 2 exhibit. It makes sense Nintendo has been partnering with a lot of non game companies lately like Comcast and Warner Brothers. Why not partner with the biggest media company? Nintendo is smart and wouldn't want to lose that bridge with Disney, its very likely that both Disney and Nintendo are on good terms. Also Nintendo is working with Warner Brothers also, which is a rival to Comcast. So the idea that they will not work with Disney because they are working with a rival company is not something we can use. Its very likely if Disney wants Sora in they will work with Nintendo and Square.

It was a preexisting remix on Youtube

 

[Nekoo]

You give Crono's chances too much credit. I'd bet on Neku, Agnes or an Octopath character before I bet on Crono

Octopath is out of the question for how long the SE talk started-
Neku and Bravely could be possible, but eeeeh... Neku I can see it happening, and while I would kill to have BD OST, I don't see it happening at all

 

[Diem]

I ain’t saying Disney is is possible to work with, I’m saying that maybe Disney would be difficult to work with. Say Sakurai asks Nomura about Sora. Nomura asks people at Disney about it and it travels up the corporate ladder. It reaches the bigwigs, and all they see is something that benefits Nintendo more than Disney themselves. They have no reason to accept it, so they decline. That’s a possible scenario.

All third-party inclusions benefit Nintendo more than the third-party. The third-party is paid for licensing, obviously, and gets their IP shown off on someone else's dime, but at the end of the day the game is pushing Nintendo software and hardware. The majority of the profit is for Nintendo alone. And it's not like in Kingdom Hearts where there's some of Square Enix's content, but it's otherwise mostly Disney's content being used. It's just a little bit of Metal Gear/Castlevania/Sonic/Final Fantasy content being sprinkled into what's largely a Nintendo affair. It's not like third parties are getting equal billing to Mario or Zelda.

The reason to accept is that Super Smash is now a prestigious series that companies are enthusiastic about lending their IP's to, regardless of the business benefit. Even Konami, who's been burning all kinds of bridges over the past few years, held nothing back (except the Kojima fox logo). The only company that's been reserved is Square Enix, and even then they were the ones who let Sakurai pick Cloud, rather than make demands for promotional content like, say, Noctis.

And it’s not like Nintendo and Disney are on great terms. Nintendo is working with Illumination, a rival to Disney animation, for the Mario movie. Sure, Disney might not care about something like sora, but they also have no reason to accept a deal like this.

You just completely ignored how I linked to the fact that Nintendo and Disney are collaborating on a TV show for Disney primarily meant to advertise the Nintendo Switch. Disney didn't have a reason to accept that deal, either, when they could run programming that drives impressions and sales of their own properties.

Bowser was also in Wreck-it-Ralph. Disney is working with Illumination on the Mario movie, but that doesn't mean anything regarding Disney's relationship with Nintendo. Kingdom Hearts is exclusive to PlayStation, but that doesn't seem to stop Nintendo and Disney from doing things together.

Disney also broadcast the Smash Wii U EVO tournament for a year or two, which not only serves to just promote Nintendo, but shows that Disney is aware of how big the Super Smash series is. Now imagine how excited they'd be at the prospect of Sora showing up onstage at EVO.

They’re larger than Nintendo and all this would be doing would be licensing a Disney ip out for little benefit. Like I said, I’m not a law guy so i might not be educated on the intricacies of this, but that’s just something worth keeping in mind. Ultimately none of us know what goes on in the upper echelons of Disney, so we can only spitball, and based on what I know, I think Disney would be a troublesome company.

It's not even a matter of law. It's a matter of how much these companies are willing to cooperate. And all the third-parties already involved or speculated to be involved (like Disney and Microsoft) have shown that they are very willing to cooperate in various business ventures. Have we seen any company snub their nose at an invitation to Smash (besides Sega with Sonic during Brawl's development, and then they later changed their mind)? Have we seen any company be needlessly difficult regarding any character or content in Smash? Or has every company involved so far been very cooperative with Nintendo/Sakurai and what he wants to do?

Of course, it's always possible that Disney might be a stick in the mud and make the unprecedented decision to say no. There's no certainty in any of this. But the evidence suggests that there's no reason to believe that'll happen.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Here's the source for no Mario in Wreck-It-Ralph 2:

And here's the source for Mario Kart music in Disney World:

The music in Disney World could just have been a mistake, or maybe Nintendo and Disney struck up some sort of odd deal that made that happen. I'd need to know if the music is recurring, or if it just happened that once.

 

[PsySmasher]

Honestly, even as the biggest Sora defender. I'm thinking he won't be in. Not for MUH DISNEY or whatever, since I'm 1000000% sure his name dropped.
But I believe DQ will win it all, with Erdrick. And I wouldn't be mad, honestly if I had to rate chance.

Dragon Quest Rep (whenever it's a Hero or Slime) : 65%
Crono: 55%
Sora: 45%
Another FF rep: 30% (Varying on who it is, can go up to 50% but I wouldn't hold on this)
Geno: 25%

Why did you rate Crono as a likely character?
He is an awesome character, don't get me wrong, but I don't think that he'd be a likely candidate for DLC.
What does he have going for him, in terms of likeliness over the other Square reps?

 

[DarthEnderX]

So it looks like our 5 dlc characters will be:

- Steve
- Elma
- Dragon Quest Character
- Heihachi/Lloyd
- Rayman/Crash Bandicoot

Sure, just as much as it looked like we were getting Mach Rider, Banjo, Chorus Kids, etc.

Less so in fact, at least that had a fake picture!

Seriously, how often does this **** have to end up being wrong before you people realize leaks are fake!?

 

[Deleted member]

Octopath is out of the question for how long the SE talk started-
Neku and Bravely could be possible, but eeeeh... Neku I can see it happening, and while I would kill to have BD OST, I don't see it happening at all

Octopath has been known about for quite sometime but I still doubt it as SE severely underestimated it amd there's no clear character you can market. It should still get music into Smash though.
But that's just to put into perspective how likely I consider Crono to be.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I don't get it. Am I just different? I love taking showers and being clean in general. Who wouldn't want to take a warm, relaxing shower with the added benefit of smelling good afterwards?

I don't get it either. If I skip showering for a day, I feel gross the next day.

 

[doomedtacox]

Sure, just as much as it looked like we were getting Mach Rider, Banjo, Chorus Kids, etc.

Less so in fact that that even had a fake picture!

Seriously, how often does this **** have to end up being wrong before you people realize leaks are fake!?

Verge hasn't been wrong yet, which is what I'm basing my predictions on. But even he has only hinted at 2 of the DLC.

 

[dezeray112]

So our current DLC lineup is:

• Steve
• Square Enix rep
• Namco rep
• Nintendo swordfighter (that isn't Legend of Zelda or Xenoblade)
• ???

The "???" could be Katalina, but we don't know who.

Pretty much, it's shaping out to be this:

• Steve
• Sora/DQ Rep/Geno
• Lloyd Irving
• Euden/Matthew/Celica/Edelgard
• ???

I wouldn't be disappointed with this lineup.

Here's how I predict my DLC lineup would be like:

Steve - Hitagi seems to be 100% confident that he is a part of the Fighters Pass DLC.
Square-Enix Rep - As I had already said, it is difficult to predict who will the playable rep. Personally, I would say this would be between someone from Dragon Quest or Sora of Kingdom Hearts.
Namco Rep - I'd possibly opt between Heihachi or Lloyd Irving.
Nintendo Sword Character - Can't say for certain who that would be at the moment.
????? - I think this one could be another Nintendo based character.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

It was a preexisting remix on Youtube

Regardless, the question is why it was playing at Walt Disney World of all places. Disney Legal would never add a track they don't have the rights to into rotation, so it was either added by someone having fun and its a mistake, or it was added because Disney got the rights to it.

Finally Illumination Studios and Universal Studios is owned by ComCast which is making the Mario movie. However Detective Pikachu is being made by Warner Brothers, both of these companies are rivals. And yet Nintendo is working with both of them, it makes sense they may also with work with Disney as they are not staying within only one media company.

I feel like this is a very strong point in Sora's favor. It's very possible that Nintendo and Disney are working together on something larger that just hasn't been revealed yet.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Verge hasn't been wrong yet

He's just a really good guesser. All leaks are fake.

 

[Nekoo]

Why did you rate Crono as a likely character?
He is an awesome character, don't get me wrong, but I don't think that he'd be a likely candidate for DLC.
What does he have going for him, in terms of likeliness over the other Square reps?

Actually? It all goes down to if the talk with Armor Project/Square-Enix/That asshole composer/Bird studio For DQ content fail or manage to go through it.
Chrono Trigger is a Legendary RPG, I would go to say that he's the FFVII of the SNES, and with a team of genius behind it, Crono had a big following during Brawl irc
And more importantly EVERYTHING CHRONO TRIGGER IS SQUARE'S PROPERTY no shady deal with any weird company or what-not. One of the rare time square-enix themselves weren't ********.
He have a bit of DQ, a bit of FF, the perfect mix if you want to represent the SNES era of Square-Enix, who were extremely supportive of Nintendo.

 

[Ring-a-Sheep]

He's just a really good guesser.

I think you forgot the "/s" pal

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Actually? It all goes down to if the talk with Armor Project/Square-Enix/That ******* composer/Bird studio For DQ content fail or manage to go through it.
Chrono Trigger is a Legendary RPG, I would go to say that he's the FFVII of the SNES, and with a team of genius behind it, Crono had a big following during Brawl irc
And more importantly EVERYTHING CHRONO TRIGGER IS SQUARE'S PROPERTY no shady deal with any weird company or what-not. One of the rare time square-enix themselves weren't ********.
He have a bit of DQ, a bit of FF, the perfect mix if you want to represent the SNES era of Square-Enix, who were extremely supportive of Nintendo.

Chrono falls into the same trap of irrelevancy that Geno is in though, and he has little to no fan demand that can make up for that.