Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Smooth Criminal]

There is very noticeable recovery when the Mother boys reflect with their fsmash.

That is a ftilt with very little recovery/FAF, meaning the Belmonts can follow up with damn near ANYTHING and there is nothing you can do about it, lol. With that range and those projectiles...

I am SHOOK FAM

Smooth Criminal

 

[Iridium]

Okay, so who do you all think will be that one character everybody considers the worst when the game comes out? I mean, we all know that it's going to happen sometime.

 

[Shroob]

Okay, so who do you all think will be that one character everybody considers the worst when the game comes out? I mean, we all know that it's going to happen sometime.

Dedede or Bowser Jr probably.

Maybe Luigi.

 

[KMDP]

Young Link looks great and I think that OoT and MM are both better than WW, but I can't bring myself to ditch Toon Link. Depending on how regular Link fares Toon Link could end up being the least popular of the three

The thing about Toon Link is that he still has unique tools, like the fact that his Down Air drops and Link and Young Link's don't. Stuff like this will probably change his meta, giving him niches to work in even if he isn't the best of the three.

Okay, so who do you all think will be that one character everybody considers the worst when the game comes out? I mean, we all know that it's going to happen sometime.

Isn't already considered the worst?

I'm definitely not gonna lose sleep over Bowser Jr. being the worst, I didn't like how he played in Smash 4.

 

[Cosmic77]

LOL the Detective Pikachu movie is still #1 in trending and beating Toy Story 4.

Pixar is probably regretting making a spork the highlight of their trailer.

Okay, so who do you all think will be that one character everybody considers the worst when the game comes out? I mean, we all know that it's going to happen sometime.

Personally, my money is on Dedede. Wouldn't suprise me at all if he replaces Zelda's former spot on the tier list.

 

[Zinith]

Okay, so who do you all think will be that one character everybody considers the worst when the game comes out? I mean, we all know that it's going to happen sometime.

We're gonna have to see, because declaring a "worst character" this early is not exactly fair to that character...

 

[ZephyrZ]

The one thing about the Belmonts that reassures me they won't be too ridiculous is that they have a combination of poor air speed and poor frame data. Once you get in close, I imagine they're going to have a really hard time shaking you off. Not that getting close will be an easy feat by any means, so get to practicing those perfect shields y'all.

Okay, so who do you all think will be that one character everybody considers the worst when the game comes out? I mean, we all know that it's going to happen sometime.

Something tells me everyone is going to think Incineroar is absolutely broken when the game launches, only for good players to quickly realize that poor mobility mixed with poor recovery will actually make him kind of suck. I'm going to have to go with the bandwagon and say Dedede though, I haven't heard anything about any potential buffs for him and his mobility is absolute garbage.

On a slightly unrelated note, I do worry that Zelda and Ganondorf are possibly being a tad bit over hyped by all the changes they've received.

 

[Idon]

Don't worry, we Ike mains got the power of a
BIG AAAAAAAASSS SWORD.
Now if only we could get a projectile like Cloud

 

[KMDP]

Once you get in close, I imagine they're going to have a really hard time shaking you off.

Kinda like the actual Castlevania games, I guess.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

LOL the Detective Pikachu movie is still #1 in trending and beating Toy Story 4.

Pixar is probably regretting making a spork the highlight of their trailer.

To be fair Detective Pikachu is the first live action attempt at a really beloved franchise worldwide.

Toy Story 4 is a very potential sequel too far that everyone was a little ''What?" about before the spork. The very fact the trilogy was so well done and ended on a good note didn't help.

I think Detective Pikachu would've been trending more even if they'd did anything else with Toy Story 4.

 

[Deleted member]

Today's a really depressing day to be a Marvel fan .

Okay, so who do you all think will be that one character everybody considers the worst when the game comes out? I mean, we all know that it's going to happen sometime.

Bowser Jr.

 

[Iridium]

Not gonna lie, Bowser Jr. got more buffs than you would think. I'll look for the document.

 

[Cosmic77]

On a slightly unrelated note, I do worry that Zelda and Ganondorf are possibly being a tad bit over hyped by all the changes they've received.

Not sure about Zelda yet, but Ganondorf is definitely being over hyped. Sword or no sword, his recovery is still absolute trash.

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

Today's a really depressing day to be a Marvel fan

Why, what happened?

 

[Iridium]

Here's the document.

Bowser Jr. really didn't get nerfed that hard without compensation. When I asked my question earlier, I was still convinced that the tier list would be close anyway.

 

[Zinith]

Why, what happened?

Spoiler

Stan Lee passed away

 

[Deleted member]

Why, what happened?

Stan Lee, The Legend, died.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

combination of poor air speed and poor frame data.

Poor airspeed? Yes. Poor frame data? Nooooooooo. At least not for what they're bringing to the table. What, like f12 or something for a bair that you can angle in THREE DIRECTIONS and you don't have to sweetspot for maximum damage? With that RANGE? That can be autocanceled? That is bonkers. Having a f19 projectile (Cross) with endlag low enough to throw other normals and projectiles out to cover/control space in tandem with the space it's covering? Yikes. This kinda stuff more than makes up for their airspeed and kinda average recovery. When you have moves like that, you're gonna have to be careful getting in on them.

If you've never played a Castlevania game, you're about to learn how poorly those enemy monsters fared against the Vampire Killer and other **** getting flung at them. We all are. We're all Castlevania enemies now.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Poor airspeed? Yes. Poor frame data? Nooooooooo. At least not for what they're bringing to the table. What, like f12 or something for a bair that you can angle in THREE DIRECTIONS and you don't have to sweetspot for maximum damage? With that RANGE? That can be autocanceled? That is bonkers. Having a f19 projectile (Cross) with endlag low enough to throw other normals and projectiles out to cover/control space in tandem with the space it's covering? Yikes. This kinda stuff more than makes up for their airspeed and kinda average recovery. When you have moves like that, you're gonna have to be careful getting in on them.

If you've never played a Castlevania game, you're about to learn how poorly those poor enemy monsters fared against the Vampire Killer and other **** getting flung at them. We all are.

Smooth Criminal

Then Sakurai releases a patch that replaces Vampire Killer with Nebula from Portrait of Ruin. Have fun dodging that whip assholes

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

Spoiler

Stan Lee passed away

Stan Lee, The Legend, died.

Oh dear, rest in peace Standard Lee. You were a great man of wonderful history.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Not sure about Zelda yet, but Ganondorf is definitely being over hyped. Sword or no sword, his recovery is still absolute trash.

To be fair it's completely possible to be good with a bad recovery. But being good with a bad recovery and poor mobility and versatility is really an uphill battle.

I definitely don't see those new sword moves as much of a buff though. Ganondorf's old set of Smashes weren't actually all half bad, especially that infamously safe U-Smash of his, and his new sword moves seem pretty slow.

Poor airspeed? Yes. Poor frame data? Nooooooooo. At least not for what they're bringing to the table. What, like f12 or something for a bair that you can angle in THREE DIRECTIONS and you don't have to sweetspot for maximum damage? With that RANGE? That can be autocanceled? That is bonkers. Having a f19 projectile (Cross) with endlag low enough to throw other normals and projectiles out to cover/control space in tandem with the space it's covering? Yikes. This kinda stuff more than makes up for their airspeed and kinda average recovery. When you have moves like that, you're gonna have to be careful getting in on them.

I suppose I was taking Sakurai's word for it when he said the Belmonts had slow attacks.

I'm not to knowledgeable on frame data in general, but while f12 might be a bit bonkers for a ranged "don't come close" attack it's still not enough to make for an exceptional "get off me" option, if you know what I mean. What I meant is that I expect the Belmont's to have a tough time when they're cornered and their backs are too the wall, as zoning specialists ought to be.

 

[Iridium]

To be fair it's completely possible to be good with a bad recovery. But being good with a bad recovery and poor mobility and versatility is really an uphill battle.

I definitely don't see those new sword moves as much of a buff though. Ganondorf's old set of Smashes weren't actually all half bad, especially that infamously safe U-Smash of his, and his new sword moves seem pretty slow.

I suppose I was taking Sakurai's word for it when he said the Belmonts had slow attacks.

I'm not to knowledgeable on frame data in general, but while f12 might be a bit bonkers for a ranged "don't come close" attack it's still not enough to make for an exceptional "get off me" option, if you know what I mean. What I meant is that I expect the Belmont's to have a tough time when they're cornered and their backs are too the wall, as zoning specialists ought to be.

Well, Ganondorf's d-smash looks better, but it's really the only one. I almost want to see people play him like in Melee...

 

[Cutie Gwen]

To be fair it's completely possible to be good with a bad recovery. But being good with a bad recovery and poor mobility and versatility is really an uphill battle.

I definitely don't see those new sword moves as much of a buff though. Ganondorf's old set of Smashes weren't actually all half bad, especially that infamously safe U-Smash of his, and his new sword moves seem pretty slow.

I suppose I was taking Sakurai's word for it when he said the Belmonts had slow attacks.

I'm not to knowledgeable on frame data in general, but while f12 might be a bit bonkers for a ranged "don't come close" attack it's still not enough to make for an exceptional "get off me" option, if you know what I mean. What I meant is that I expect the Belmont's to have a tough time when they're cornered and their backs are too the wall, as zoning specialists ought to be.

Sakurai said Bayonetta's moves were slow too and look what happened there

 

[Deleted member]

Poor airspeed? Yes. Poor frame data? Nooooooooo. At least not for what they're bringing to the table. What, like f12 or something for a bair that you can angle in THREE DIRECTIONS and you don't have to sweetspot for maximum damage? With that RANGE? That can be autocanceled? That is bonkers. Having a f19 projectile (Cross) with endlag low enough to throw other normals and projectiles out to cover/control space in tandem with the space it's covering? Yikes. This kinda stuff more than makes up for their airspeed and kinda average recovery. When you have moves like that, you're gonna have to be careful getting in on them.

If you've never played a Castlevania game, you're about to learn how poorly those enemy monsters fared against the Vampire Killer and other **** getting flung at them. We all are. We're all Castlevania enemies now.

Smooth Criminal

I for one, welcome our new Vampire Slaying overlords.

 

[KMDP]

Poor airspeed? Yes. Poor frame data? Nooooooooo. At least not for what they're bringing to the table. What, like f12 or something for a bair that you can angle in THREE DIRECTIONS and you don't have to sweetspot for maximum damage? With that RANGE? That can be autocanceled? That is bonkers. Having a f19 projectile (Cross) with endlag low enough to throw other normals and projectiles out to cover/control space in tandem with the space it's covering? Yikes. This kinda stuff more than makes up for their airspeed and kinda average recovery. When you have moves like that, you're gonna have to be careful getting in on them.

If you've never played a Castlevania game, you're about to learn how poorly those enemy monsters fared against the Vampire Killer and other **** getting flung at them. We all are. We're all Castlevania enemies now.

Smooth Criminal

Everyone's a Castlevania enemy now, even Simon and Richter.

Spoiler

Stan Lee passed away

Stan Lee, The Legend, died.

The end of a legend.

 

[Idon]

I'm hoping one echo doesn't outpace the other in terms of ability to the point we only see the superior version.

Koopalings are fun since no one plays default bowser jr. and everyone has a favorite.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Everyone's a Castlevania enemy now, even Simon and Richter.


The end of a legend.

Yeah dude, ever see that asshole Doppelganger and the fake Trevor in SotN? Also Richter has a Soma palette AND a Julius palette so he fits both sides of Vampire and Vampire Killer

 

[Deleted member]

The end of a legend.

I just relizied we lost both Stan Lee and Steve Daikto in the same damn year. Damn man.

 

[KMDP]

I'm hoping one echo doesn't outpace the other in terms of ability to the point we only see the superior version.

Well, it's a bit of a crap-shoot.

Look at Smash 4, with Marth-Lucina and Pit-Dark Pit; Lucina's change ended up changing her to the point that she had different match-ups, while Marth and Lucina were still comparable, there were some battles where Lucina was better than Marth and vice versa. On the other hand, Dark Pit's change made him, basically, "not-as-good Pit", so I wouldn't be surprised if most people just picked Pit over DP.

We'll have to wait and see, though we probably already know that Roy will see more use than Chrom, and Ken might see more use than Ryu.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I personally think the Belmonts are going to be the new Rosalina. They're going to be really good, although without being the absolute best. They will however be some of the most hated characters by the competitive community because their exceptional defensive play style will make them a pain in the butt to deal with.

Just a prediction.

I'm hoping one echo doesn't outpace the other in terms of ability to the point we only see the superior version.

Koopalings are fun since no one plays default bowser jr. and everyone has a favorite.

Pre-Electroshock buff Smash 4 made for some dark days to be a Dark Pit main. Then by the time they did finally decide to buff Electroshock and make it so that Pittoo had a reason to be chosen over his twin, I had already converted to Charizardism.

 

[MSmariosonic]

I just relizied we lost both Stan Lee and Steve Daikto in the same damn year. Damn man.

Don't forget Douglas Rain

Douglas Rain also passed away not so long ago

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I just the advertisement for Smash on tv. It was the most recent More Fighters Trailer but in reverse. So it first starts with Inkling and ends with the character banner.

 

[osby]

To be fair it's completely possible to be good with a bad recovery. But being good with a bad recovery and poor mobility and versatility is really an uphill battle.

I definitely don't see those new sword moves as much of a buff though. Ganondorf's old set of Smashes weren't actually all half bad, especially that infamously safe U-Smash of his, and his new sword moves seem pretty slow.

I'm not really impressed by Ganondorf having his Sword of Memes now, but his pretty much everything except Ganoncide, up aerial and smashes has been buffed.

 

[MSmariosonic]

The daily posts have slowed down a bit, eh?

 

[osby]

Well, it's a bit of a crap-shoot.

Look at Smash 4, with Marth-Lucina and Pit-Dark Pit; Lucina's change ended up changing her to the point that she had different match-ups, while Marth and Lucina were still comparable, there were some battles where Lucina was better than Marth and vice versa. On the other hand, Dark Pit's change made him, basically, "not-as-good Pit", so I wouldn't be surprised if most people just picked Pit over DP.

We'll have to wait and see, though we probably already know that Roy will see more use than Chrom, and Ken might see more use than Ryu.

I still prefer Dark Pit to Pit. Aside from my preference to the character, I'm not that good at angling the arrows and Electroshock Arm is better at KOing in certain places.

 

[Cosmic77]

I'm hoping one echo doesn't outpace the other in terms of ability to the point we only see the superior version.

Koopalings are fun since no one plays default bowser jr. and everyone has a favorite.

I'm sure people will find a "superior" character with each set of Echoes, but I don't think there's gonna be a huge gap between them on the tier list or anything. Chrom is the only Echo I could see as an exception, and that has more to do with his poor recovery than anything else.

I'm not really impressed by Ganondorf having his Sword of Memes now, but his pretty much everything except Ganoncide, up aerial and smashes has been buffed.

Funny how the fanbase complained because Ganondorf didn't have a sword. Now he has one and everyone is still complaining.

 

[KMDP]

I just the advertisement for Smash on tv. It was the most recent More Fighters Trailer but in reverse. So it first starts with Inkling and ends with the character banner.

That's just the Japanese version of the Trailer.

Nobody knows why it plays in reverse.

I personally think the Belmonts are going to be the new Rosalina. They're going to be really good, although without being the absolute best. They will however be some of the most hated characters by the competitive community because their exceptional defensive play style will make them a pain in the butt to deal with.

Just a prediction.

Ultimate: A game that generally encourages offensive play.

Simon and Richter: "Nah, we're just gonna keep playing defense if you don't mind."

 

[osby]

The daily posts have slowed down a bit, eh?

It was a lot slower like an hour ago.

Well, it's a bit of a crap-shoot.

Look at Smash 4, with Marth-Lucina and Pit-Dark Pit; Lucina's change ended up changing her to the point that she had different match-ups, while Marth and Lucina were still comparable, there were some battles where Lucina was better than Marth and vice versa. On the other hand, Dark Pit's change made him, basically, "not-as-good Pit", so I wouldn't be surprised if most people just picked Pit over DP.

We'll have to wait and see, though we probably already know that Roy will see more use than Chrom, and Ken might see more use than Ryu.

We already saw Richter has more fans even if he is 1-to-1 with Simon. It seems people prefer the more expressive and hotter Belmont.

Funny how the fanbase complained because Ganondorf didn't have a sword. Now he has one and everyone is still complaining.

Eh, I never was a fan of giving Ganon a sword. Good for his fans though, general reaction was pretty positive.

 

[IGuessItsOver]

What are some franchises repped in Smash that desperately NEED more new gen games?
For me it's

 

[KMDP]

We already saw Richter has more fans even if he is 1-to-1 with Simon. It seems people prefer the more expressive and hotter Belmont.

What even are the differences between Simon and Richter anyway?

*looks on Smash wiki*

"The animation of Richter's forward smash aims his whip higher compared to Simon, making it slightly harder for him to hit crouching opponents, but easier to hit an airborne opponent. However, the difference is very minimal."

This is the only change listed that isn't completely cosmetic. *shrug*