Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[KingBroly]

Young Link's arrows are ridiculous. Fast, fire, good range. And you can keep firing them.

 

[Idon]

But I have to ask would you still hate her even if she had an amazing personality in smash and a super unique cool moveset?

Absolutely.
A character is far more than just their function. It's a combination of their game, their personality, and their story. What actually makes a character a character, and not just a vessel for an interesting moveset. Looking at you Corrin/Roy.
At that point, we might as well add Smash OCs that have interesting mechanics, but nothing outside of their history.

I think I know far more than enough about her to understand that I don't want her in Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

The idea that a character like Rex or another 1st party character getting in being "old news" is really the point. People like the character. Japanese fans sincerely love XC2 and Rex was a frontrunner for DLC.

XC2 also has Torna: The Golden Country. Sakurai has played, and loved the game, and it happened to be during Smash Ultimate's development time, so I imagine that had something to do with the Mii Fighter costume.

I simply don't think, after every fan rule has been BTFO, game after game, that we should start making new fan rules for future DLC characters. I would simply lay out the "eligible" characters as anyone who isn't already a playable character, a boss, or Assist Trophy. Maybe even lump stage elements in there.

The eligible characters, potentially, are anyone who happens to be a Spirit or a Mii Fighter Costume. That's my opinion anyway.

This is why I'm still holding out hope for Rex. Remember, at the end of the day, Rex & Pyra are still Japan's most wanted character in Smash. You think Sakurai is gonna ignore THAT big of a request?

 

[Deleted member]

One reason I am hoping for Undertale in Smash is we will get great gems.
( I am hoping for at least a little bit of Deltarune content if Undertale gets in. )

Spoiler

 

[Troykv]

Lol, watching Zer0 stream and he just skipped all the mid and high tiers and put Chrom at the bottom.

That recovery situation's worse than I thought...

Also, wtf Zelda, Ike, Roy, Shulk, Young Link, and KRool are top tiers, lmao.

Chrom suffers probably the same problem that Little Mac and (to a lesser extent) Cloud have; but without being as insanely powerful as they're.

 

[Idon]

This is why I'm still holding out hope for Rex. Remember, at the end of the day, Rex & Pyra are still Japan's most wanted character in Smash. You think Sakurai is gonna ignore THAT big of a request?

Yeah, if, and this is a very big if here, if Sakurai decides to add a bonus 6th DLC character, it will DEFINITELY Rex&Pyra/Mythra.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

This is hilarious to me!View attachment 176000

I seriously need someone to draw Chrom and Robin victory posing while Chrom and a Chrom Mii Fighter are clapping awkwardly!

Now I am 98% Convinced that Chrom was a last minute addition

 

[Deleted member]

This is hilarious to me!View attachment 176000

I seriously need someone to draw Chrom and Robin victory posing while Chrom and a Chrom Mii Fighter are clapping awkwardly!

This is the best timeline. It's exactly what I wanted.

 

[PsySmasher]

'cause the Rex costume was a bonus for buying the DLC pass.

I've talked about this multiple times in the past already:

During the time the DLC section/Rex Mii costume reveal Sakurai stated:

"We decided which fighters to include when we started planning, so we couldn't add characters from titles like Xenoblade Chronicles 2, which was announced after planning has started."

If were going directly based off of what Sakurai said then EVERYONE (base and DLC) was planned at the exact same time.

Given the context of when he said this statement, I don't think that he would reference only the base roster specifically in the DLC section of the direct.
And while Mii Costumes have been upgraded to playable characters, no character has had that upgrade within the same game.

 

[KarneraMythos]

The idea that a character like Rex or another 1st party character getting in being "old news" is really the point. People like the character. Japanese fans sincerely love XC2 and Rex was a frontrunner for DLC.

XC2 also has Torna: The Golden Country. Sakurai has played, and loved the game, and it happened to be during Smash Ultimate's development time, so I imagine that had something to do with the Mii Fighter costume.

I simply don't think, after every fan rule has been BTFO, game after game, that we should start making new fan rules for future DLC characters. I would simply lay out the "eligible" characters as anyone who isn't already a playable character, a boss, or Assist Trophy. Maybe even lump stage elements in there.

The eligible characters, potentially, are anyone who happens to be a Spirit or a Mii Fighter Costume. That's my opinion anyway.

I fear that there won't ever be another Smash game again, so it's not just Rex that's in danger of being a Never-Ever. Assuming there is a Smash 6 like in a decade from now, there are some factors to consider that will greatly harm his chances even in this theoretical sequel:

1. He's in, but the roster is significantly cut down from Ultimate. So much so that the game's selection is deemed inferior to Ultimate and the game is touted as the "Worst Smash Sequel in the franchise." By no means does this mean the game is terrible, but the roster downgrade will definitely be noticed by the Smash community regardless of what you think of some characters.

2. He's completely ignored, or relegated to an Assist Trophy at best. By the time Smash 6 is out, Rex is no longer fresh on Sakurai's mind. We would probably have a different Xenoblade rep by then if there is one, and Rex will get the Poke'mon treatment where being a generation late means he's never placed in at all. You can argue that Monolithsoft and Game Freak don't operate the same way and that could very well be true, but so far, we've gotten no reps that were "too late."

He along with Spring Man and the other characters are in such deep **** right now that the most they can ever hope for is half-or-nothing beyond this current DLC line-up. I'm not going to be counting my chickens yet, but I am fairly confident DLC is a surefire thing. And hey, I know how much vitriol the mere mention of Minecraft brings to Smash forums, but think about this: If Steve is playable, kids will most definitely get their parents to buy him. If the profits are big enough and split appropriately between Microsoft and Nintendo, there's a chance this could encourage more "advertisement". Hence, more DLC Waves. Pardon me for sounding like a broken record since I keep bringing up this "Season 2" nonsense, ahaha... I think the prospect of Waves seem feasible even for tired 'ol Sakurai. 5 characters, 5 stages, and likely ported music within a year? Seems like generous work compared to sleepless nights for a massive crossover game that has roughly 15 times that amount and more still.

 

[Condenir]

Absolutely.
A character is far more than just their function. It's a combination of their game, their personality, and their story. Looking at you Corrin/Roy.
At that point, we might as well add Smash OCs that have interesting mechanics, but nothing outside of their history.

I think I know far more than enough about her to understand that I don't want her in Smash.

That’s a fair enough argument!
I guess we are just different
As someone who doesn’t have a lot of requested characters, usually I find out about series through smash.

But I totally understand where you’re coming from

 

[Deleted member]

This is why I'm still holding out hope for Rex. Remember, at the end of the day, Rex & Pyra are still Japan's most wanted character in Smash. You think Sakurai is gonna ignore THAT big of a request?

How do you know they are Japan's most wanted character in Smash though?

 

[Untouch]

Can I please get a source on that, this is news to me.

https://twitter.com/Kirby_JP/status/1059279150886772736

 

[Deleted member]

How do you know they are Japan's most wanted character in Smash though?

His dad is Nintendo.

 

[StormC]

This is why I'm still holding out hope for Rex. Remember, at the end of the day, Rex & Pyra are still Japan's most wanted character in Smash. You think Sakurai is gonna ignore THAT big of a request?

I saw him reach into the cradle of Spring-Man and strangle the life out of him with his own two hands.

I think Sakurai is capable of anything.

 

[monadoboy]

Zelda, Ike, Roy, Shulk, Young Link,
top tiers

>Shulk
>top tier

I'm getting too hyped up for it and don't want to believe it.
This can't be happening.
I'm ecstatic about that sick as **** nair and the top tier alts
I can't imagine a timeline with Shulk showing up in EVO and ****

 

[Paperchampion23]

Stoopid tinfoil hat theory:

I find it interesting that Smash/SE may announce a DLC character so far in advance before they release (even before PP comes out). Mewtwo was the only character to do this previously, and he came out ~4-5 months after being announced.

Anyway, my stoopid theory is that Square Enix is actually getting 2 DLC characters. Yes....2 of the 5 slots. Square is the only 3rd party, save for Bamco, with 1 character. We know that multiple DLC characters have been available at once before. Mewtwo and Cloud were alone, but Lucas, Roy and Ryu were all released the same day in June, while Corrin and Bayonetta were released the following year in February.

I think the fact that Vergeben is hearing tons of names is not only because they are trying to throw off the scent of who the character is, but WHOM they are, because spitting out a bunch of names makes it that much harder to pinpoint both of them.

Now....back to my Mewtwo statement. He was announced 5ish months before release. This is where is gets especially dumb, but here we go: The SE characters get announced December 6th 2018, with a release for both together in March the following year (a month or so after Piranha Plant).

Guess which games came out around that time? That's right ladies and gents: Chrono Trigger and SMRPG, literally March 11th 1995 and March 9th 1996, respectively.

Square is going to do a double reveal of Chrono and Geno:] That way Sakurai gets what he wants and SE gets more classic exposure.


...or it's just going to be Sora or some other more modern SE character.

Just let me have my fun please.

 

[Deleted member]

If we're talking Rex & Pyra, it all comes down to when the DLC was planned, which was probably way back in 2015

However, there is still a non-zero chance that Sakurai didn't plan out the DLC or only planned out some of the DLC (I'd imagine licensing for third-parties takes a fair deal of time) and Sakurai was simply trying to placate the japanese fanbase since Rex is ****ing huge over there. However, the much more likely outcome is that Sakurai simply wanted to have XC2 represented in Ultimate despite Rex being way too late even for DLC because Sakurai ****ing loves XC2 it's like his game of the decade

 

[Idon]

>Shulk
>top tier

I'm getting too hyped up for it and don't want to believe it.
This can't be happening.
I'm ecstatic about that sick as **** nair and the top tier alts
I can't imagine a timeline with Shulk showing up in EVO and ****

THE FUTURE IS OURS TO DECIDE.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Chrom suffers probably the same problem that Little Mac and (to a lesser extent) Cloud have; but without being as insanely powerful as they're.

Now I am 98% Convinced that Chrom was a last minute addition

Even when he finally gets given the time of day, Chrom just can't catch a break.

https://twitter.com/Kirby_JP/status/1059279150886772736

According to Google Translate, she muses about another dimension. I hope Magolor's involved.

And/or Prince Fluff/Elline, for that matter.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Lol, watching Zer0 stream and he just skipped all the mid and high tiers and put Chrom at the bottom.

That recovery situation's worse than I thought...

Also, wtf Zelda, Ike, Roy, Shulk, Young Link, and KRool are top tiers, lmao.

Phew... One of my mains is possibly top tier, what a relief

 

[Kingslime304]

I know this might be the kind of playstyle that would annoying people a lot competitively, but I really want a projectile character that acts like Simon, no not megaman (That character is a bit less-easy friendly for my style), I mean like an aggressive character that is ammo reliant, can switch up to different types of shoots, and have almost all normal be weapon/shooting based (Like Simon). That's why I usually pick classes in MMO's that have guns in them, and is also why the Professor from Toukiden 2 is one of characters I personally want.

 

[Deleted member]

Zer0

Shulk [is] top tier

Everything checks out. Shulk had potential in Smash 4 after all.

 

[Deleted member]

I feel like DLC could of been decided before though. Plus Sakurai saying "We hope you enjoy playing him" and being sorry seems fishy. You never know though, maybe Sakurai is on the works of Rex and Pyra.

I am not sure what to side with. Also Rex and Pyra can be a thing, because Spirits does not mean deconfirmation.

I feel like I am on both sides of Rex being in Smash and Rex not being in Smash.

His dad is Nintendo.

Wait he has a dad that works at Nintendo?
Is this a joke?

 

[Gks1]

Rex or Elma. One gonna be a DLC character. I pray for it.

 

[Dyllybirdy]

Is this a joke?

No ****...

 

[StormC]

Lol, watching Zer0 stream and he just skipped all the mid and high tiers and put Chrom at the bottom.

That recovery situation's worse than I thought...

Also, wtf Zelda, Ike, Roy, Shulk, Young Link, and KRool are top tiers, lmao.

"But he'd just be a slow useless heavyweight!"

The hype is real lads.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Yeah, I still look back fondly on that one spin-off KH 3DS game that had make a cameo.

That was when I knew I was a fan.

Look I know this is pages old and hours old now, but comparing Cloud, a character from a storied franchise with it's roots in Nintendo to cool looking sword girl from a game Nintendo has never had but they own a tiny stock in her company and they made a game together that's doing well...

Phew.

That's a reach my bud.

Your parents wouldn't be Elastigirl and Mr. Fantastic would they?

 

[PsySmasher]

This is why I'm still holding out hope for Rex. Remember, at the end of the day, Rex & Pyra are still Japan's most wanted character in Smash. You think Sakurai is gonna ignore THAT big of a request?

Ugh.. I hate that I gotta be the one to say this...
As much as I'd like Rex and Pyra to make it in, I feel like the Mii costume was his way of acknowledging their popularity.
If the FULL roster was decided back in Dec. 2015, that would line up with Sakurai's statement on why Rex isn't in the game.
It's literally like Robin's situation in Smash 4.
However, this time, the game just came too late for him to be considered.
Beyond the 5 DLC characters, maybe he has a chance.
But he's not part of the Fighters Pass.

 

[bountyhunta87]

Nintendo co-owns the rights to all Fatal Frame games after a certain point, that's why she's in.

Being co-owned might require consent of both parties to be used I suppose.

 

[LetterO]

Been watching ZeRo ranking all the Ultimate characters
>Two of my mains (Bowser Jr. and Dedede) are considered the worst 2 characters
>One of my mains (Olimar) is considered the 2nd best character behind Pikachu

Very conflicted I don't know how to feel

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Just quick quick on Katalina
I obviously don’t know any of this for sure and am just not researching it bc not that serious but:

I know she’s from a mobile game, but isn’t she “potentially” going to be the lead in an action RPG? And weren’t there “apparently” talks of a granblue fighting game?
I understand why people don’t want her and I certainly understand why people wouldn’t be excited for her...
But I have to ask would you still hate her even if she had an amazing personality in smash and a super unique cool moveset?
Doesn’t it seem silly to hate characters before you even know about them in game(aka incineroar)

Now I get that YOU DONT HAVE TO BE EXCITED, OR WANT HER, but for me some of the best things about smash is having a character you know nothing about make the roster...and then discovering them and their series.
(Yes I know she is PAID DLC, but genuinely don’t buy her if you don’t want her you’re not at a loss.)

Just think it’s a little harsh to literally rip a character to shreds before you know anything about them ;*
(Easier said than done I understand but still)

Here is some context for that action rpg.

 

[Diem]

Rex and Pyra have some of the ugliest character designs I've seen for protagonists of any major game in recent years.

I imagine their appeal within the game is in their personalities or something. What do they bring to the table?

 

[PsySmasher]

Been watching ZeRo ranking all the Ultimate characters
>Two of my mains (Bowser Jr. and Dedede) are considered the worst 2 characters
>One of my mains (Olimar) is considered the 2nd best character behind Pikachu

Very conflicted I don't know how to feel

Who did ZeRo rank lower?

 

[KiBom]

Stoopid tinfoil hat theory:

I find it interesting that Smash/SE may announce a DLC character so far in advance before they release (even before PP comes out). Mewtwo was the only character to do this previously, and he came out ~4-5 months after being announced.

Anyway, my stoopid theory is that Square Enix is actually getting 2 DLC characters. Yes....2 of the 5 slots. Square is the only 3rd party, save for Bamco, with 1 character. We know that multiple DLC characters have been available at once before. Mewtwo and Cloud were alone, but Lucas, Roy and Ryu were all released the same day in June, while Corrin and Bayonetta were released the following year in February.

I think the fact that Vergeben is hearing tons of names is not only because they are trying to throw off the scent of who the character is, but WHOM they are, because spitting out a bunch of names makes it that much harder to pinpoint both of them.

Now....back to my Mewtwo statement. He was announced 5ish months before release. This is where is gets especially dumb, but here we go: The SE characters get announced December 6th 2018, with a release for both together in March the following year (a month or so after Piranha Plant).

Guess which games came out around that time? That's right ladies and gents: Chrono Trigger and SMRPG, literally March 11th 1995 and March 9th 1996, respectively.

Square is going to do a double reveal of Chrono and Geno:] That way Sakurai gets what he wants and SE gets more classic exposure.


...or it's just going to be Sora or some other more modern SE character.

Just let me have my fun please.

Square has by far the most reps to justify two additions.

Geno, Sora, Sephiroth, Noctis, Chrono, Bub and Bob, Actraiser, Slime, Jade, Erdrick and Lara Croft would all be reasonable DLC choices IMO.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I know this might be the kind of playstyle that would annoying people a lot competitively, but I really want a projectile character that acts like Simon, no not megaman (That character is a bit less-easy friendly for my style), I mean like an aggressive character that is ammo reliant, can switch up to different types of shoots, and have almost all normal be weapon/shooting based (Like Simon). That's why I usually pick classes in MMO's that have guns in them, and is also why the Professor from Toukiden 2 is one of characters I personally want.

Marco Rossi? Would be ideal for that purpose.

Lol, watching Zer0 stream and he just skipped all the mid and high tiers and put Chrom at the bottom.
That recovery situation's worse than I thought...

Also, wtf Zelda, Ike, Roy, Shulk, Young Link, and KRool are top tiers, lmao.

Best thing that happened to Zelda in the longest time, besides design changing up.

Square has by far the most reps to justify two additions.

Geno, Sora, Sephiroth, Noctis, Chrono, Bub and Bob, Actraiser, Slime, Jade, Erdrick and Lara Croft would all be reasonable DLC choices IMO.

>Actraiser
The Master, actually. Although it'd be neat if they managed to keep him named as God, although whether he gets in is another story.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, if, and this is a very big if here, if Sakurai decides to add a bonus 6th DLC character, it will DEFINITELY Rex&Pyra/Mythra.

I kinda want to put this in perspective, too. For the longest time, Japan really never feels "passionate" on a lot of characters. A Final Fantasy character, a new Kirby character, King K. Rool, Isabelle are the usual suspects, but they usually take what we get. Now pretty much every request has been made... however, I don't think Japan has requested a character PROFUSELY this much as with Rex & Pyra, probably even more than King K. Rool. If Japan as vouching for them THIS much, a simple Mii costume ain't gonna stop them. Never did with Chrom and K. Rool, won't with Rex.

 

[Deleted member]

Been watching ZeRo ranking all the Ultimate characters
>Two of my mains (Bowser Jr. and Dedede) are considered the worst 2 characters
>One of my mains (Olimar) is considered the 2nd best character behind Pikachu

Very conflicted I don't know how to feel

Can I see ZeRo's tier list please?

 

[LetterO]

Who did ZeRo rank lower?

The characters in the lowest tier from best to worst are Chrom, Ridley, Dark Samus, Samus, Dedede, and Bowser Jr.

 

[Luigi The President]

Stoopid tinfoil hat theory:

I find it interesting that Smash/SE may announce a DLC character so far in advance before they release (even before PP comes out). Mewtwo was the only character to do this previously, and he came out ~4-5 months after being announced.

Anyway, my stoopid theory is that Square Enix is actually getting 2 DLC characters. Yes....2 of the 5 slots. Square is the only 3rd party, save for Bamco, with 1 character. We know that multiple DLC characters have been available at once before. Mewtwo and Cloud were alone, but Lucas, Roy and Ryu were all released the same day in June, while Corrin and Bayonetta were released the following year in February.

I think the fact that Vergeben is hearing tons of names is not only because they are trying to throw off the scent of who the character is, but WHOM they are, because spitting out a bunch of names makes it that much harder to pinpoint both of them.

Now....back to my Mewtwo statement. He was announced 5ish months before release. This is where is gets especially dumb, but here we go: The SE characters get announced December 6th 2018, with a release for both together in March the following year (a month or so after Piranha Plant).

Guess which games came out around that time? That's right ladies and gents: Chrono Trigger and SMRPG, literally March 11th 1995 and March 9th 1996, respectively.

Square is going to do a double reveal of Chrono and Geno:] That way Sakurai gets what he wants and SE gets more classic exposure.


...or it's just going to be Sora or some other more modern SE character.

Just let me have my fun please.

Oh **** you don't make me hope for Geno