Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Deleted member]

Just popped on a minute ago. Did I miss anything interesting?

F-Zero has a chance to return.

 

[Pazzo.]

Dragon Quest is owned by three companies, you could make a case that even Sora is easier to negotiate for.

And uh... the composer (who co-owns music rights because of Japanese law) is a holocaust denier, so there's that.

If we excluded content based on who created it, we'd deprive ourselves of all sorts of great stuff.

Case in point: Shelly was a genuine scumbag but made awesome poetry. Lovecraft was racist but he founded an entire genre.

 

[StormC]

Genuinely curious. What is a generic videogame crossover in this example? What's an example of one already on the market?

I'm just failing to see what you're trying to say. If only the most iconic ones were selected, would that not be generic? What other fighters have a cast similar to what we have, thus making them generic? I'm confused.

I'd rather see Smash focus on Nintendo characters with the occasional guest character, ideally ones that are famous/notable enough that even someone who mostly plays Nintendo games would at least recognize them. Saying it would be "generic" is saying that it deviates further from the focus on Nintendo.

I'd take a Sora over a Katalina any day.

 

[Bee Card]

Eight is better pls

I thinked we could get Erdrick more than Slime but know that we live in a post-piranhaplant era we can expect a Slime lol

 

[MSmariosonic]

Snake? Metal Gear's first game was on the NES and the Snake Eater ports + Twin Snakes remake.

This is to this day still a thing?

Metal Gear's first game was on the MSX2. The game on the NES was merely a port.

 

[StormC]

If we excluded content based on who created it, we'd deprive ourselves of all sorts of great stuff.

Case in point: Shelly was a genuine scumbag but made awesome poetry. Lovecraft was racist but he founded an entire genre.

Both of those people are dead, and thankfully the DQ composer isn't far off, so maybe waiting it out will be best so he doesn't profit off of it.

 

[staindgrey]

I'd rather see Smash focus on Nintendo characters with the occasional guest character, ideally ones that are famous/notable enough that even someone who mostly plays Nintendo games would at least recognize them. Saying it would be "generic" is saying that it deviates further from the focus on Nintendo.

I'd take a Sora over a Katalina any day.

I'm not arguing against that notion at all. I'm pretty anti-third-party myself but have come to accept it as the new reality.

I just don't understand how the word "generic" applies, but ah well. I get what you're trying to say.

 

[Pazzo.]

Both of those people are dead, and thankfully the DQ composer isn't far off, so maybe waiting it out will be best so he doesn't profit off of it.

Let me put it this way: Will listening to DQ music make me a Holocaust denier?

 

[Bee Card]

Just popped on a minute ago. Did I miss anything interesting?

Shrek and Jimmy Neutron leaked for DLC

 

[CrunchyCHEEZIT]

all of the prospective SQ reps' names end in vowels.
Gen-O
Sor-A
Nek-U
Chron-O
... uh... Slim-E?
Her-O?

 

[Deleted member]

This is to this day still a thing?

Metal Gear's first game was on the MSX2. The game on the NES was merely a port.

But which system would everyone know that game was on that played on it? Surely you know it's the latter. I don't even know myself what a MSX2 is.

 

[Deleted member]

Shrek and Jimmy Neutron leaked for DLC

SMH no Boss Baby?

Canceling my preorder.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

Here's a rushed rundown on the Final Smashea, typed on a cell phone ar 4%...so rushed...

Same
Akin to Lucario's Brawl FS
New
Same
Same
Same
Same
He now flies from side to side like Sonic's Ultimate FS
Jungle Beat
Same
Same
Like Captain Falcon's but with Arwings
Like Captain Falcon's but with Arwings
Same with a different looking Beast Ganon
Same but with Battle Bond Greninja
Same
Same
Same
New
Same as 4
Same
New, just like Jungle Beat
Same as Brawl but with Mega Lucario
Same
I'm told its the same as 4
Same
Same
Same
Same
New; its more akin to Omnislash
Same
Gunners and Swordfighter's are the same, haven't seen Brawler's
New
Same
New
Same
Same
Most likely the same cause Daisy also has it
Pikachu's
Volt Tackle but functions differently
New for the third time
Same
Same as in Brawl
Newish, its like it was from 4 but with homing lasers and the giant beam grows in size
Same, yes Chrom is still in here
Same
Same
Same
Same
New
Same
New
Same but functions like Diddy's Ultimate FS
Same
Same
New
Same
See Fox and Falco, uses Wolfens
the Yoshi Stampede from the Melee intro
Its the Tri-Force Slash
New
See Villager
See Samus
Shares the same
See Peach

Bowser's is stupid now because they removed Giga Bowser so he can turn into The Big Show and just punch.. Lame..

Bayo's final smash should totally be the yellow loli, she's already the strongest and unbeatable so just power that up in her final smash to where shes like invincible with even more power to pwn. Even though she really doesnt need that to beat everybody because she already has the entire roster beaten into submission. lol

Palu still has black hole and mega laser with her dancing on the pole after she scores the kos

Ganon looks bloody awesome and needs like a Dimmu Borgir music video with that new Ganon form

Should have kept Zero Suit Samus's Krosshair because he was in DK64 telling the monkeys to "get out" before shooting them with death beams

What's Wario's final smash? Imagine if was like he like dresses up as Waluigi and use that ultimate move Tabuu uses and destroys everybody

 

[StormC]

Personally not having Nintendo history for a third party is not a huge deal for me, as long as there is something. I mean, it'd be hypocritical of me to say otherwise because Snake's incusion in Brawl led me to get into his series, one that is now very near and dear to my heart. You have your pseudo-Nintendo characters like Mega Man and Simon Belmont, your characters that are recognizable no matter what like Pac-Man, and your psuedo-Sony characters like Cloud and Snake. That's fine, because those characters are big enough that they bring the "worlds collide" sentiment and really emphasize the "guest character" part. I guess Katalina would be a "worlds collide" for mobile games...? She just isn't anywhere near the level of who we have.

I used to be more against third party characters but there's no swimming up that stream now. Hopefully who remains is satisfying.

Let me put it this way: Will listening to DQ music make me a Holocaust denier?

Nope. Just that I think Nintendo might hesitate to put their fingers in that pie is all. NOA would at least certainly have words about it.

 

[MSmariosonic]

But which system would everyone know that game was on that played on it? Surely you know it's the latter. I don't even know myself what a MSX2 is.

Not the point

You said Metal Gear's first appearance was the NES and I just corrected you

you're welcome

 

[Noipoi]

As for my dlc hopes-

-Geno
-Sora
-Banjo
-Octoling

That's it, the last one can be whoever. Maybe Chorus Kids?

 

[Diem]

Allegedly, Retro's Wii U development was hell and they've lost a lot of staff. Multiple disgruntled employees left fiercely negative reviews of the company on Glass Door, with one going so far as saying he thought Nintendo was planning on shutting them down. id Sofware also alleged that they got a lot of Retro Studios former employees applying for jobs with them (since they're the closest developer to Retro's location in Texas) around the time DKCR Tropical Freeze released.

The only thing we know for sure about Retro Studios is that the actual staff that was around for the Metroid Prime trilogy is almost zero. But whatever they've been working on since Tropical Freeze is a mystery.

While I haven't heard about any of this negativity before, I can't say I'm surprised. The company had a massive amount of talent drain after Metroid Prime 3, like you said. A lot of them went to form Armature Studio, and do such amazing things like... port a bunch of other developers' games, make ReCore, and make Dead Star, a multiplayer game that had its online functions shut down in less than half a year.

Meanwhile, Retro Studios has really only done Donkey Kong and that's it. The games are apparently very good and sell well, but not quite as stunning as the Metroid Prime series.

It'd be a shame if it shut down. Silicon Knights divorced from Nintendo due to the Wii's low-end hardware and then died on the hill of Too Human, and Nintendo Software Technology got gutted after Japanese mismanagement drove them into the ground, so I think Retro Studios is the last North American subsidiary/partner of Nintendo. Those kinds of studios are rare and unique, so seeing them slowly fade away is disappointing, especially since they've provided so many great games over the years.

But it seems that Japenese developers are consolidating resources domestically and starting to shut down international studios and such. Capcom Vancouver is a recent example of a studio that was once similarly important but had a fall from grace and subsequent closure (though from what I read in interviews years ago, they had a really, really lavish office that probably wasn't cheap, so that kind of misspending probably doesn't help.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

If we excluded content based on who created it, we'd deprive ourselves of all sorts of great stuff.

Case in point: Shelly was a genuine scumbag but made awesome poetry. Lovecraft was racist but he founded an entire genre.

Exactly, separate the art from the artist. Myself, I'm still an Earthworm Jim fan, despite the fact that his creator is a devout Christian nowadays. Also, A Christmas Carol was made for profit only.

That said, what is the easiest SE series to reach then, Tomb Raider? At least only one company is involved with that.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

ZSS' new Final Smash harkens back to Brawl's debut trailer. Samus fires her BIG GIANT BEAM from the background and then loses her suit and becomes ZSS.

But logically, it's really stupid.

So its basically Kamehameha.

That krosshair in Smash 4 was awesome.. (spelling it with a k like K Rool because thats a kool thing to do)

 

[RyuhoFox]

I get not liking a holocaust denier but wishing they would die so they can't profit off of something they made seems a bit messed up to me.

 

[Opossum]

I'm assuming by "literal fanservice", you mean "huge iconic character", not "porn stash fodder". So... um... Lara Croft? She's the biggest, most important female gaming character I can think of outside of Samus Aran, Princess Peach, and Princess Zelda.

Honestly you don't need to say "outside of." I'm confident that aside from MAYBE Peach, Lara Croft is bigger than those characters anyway.

 

[Idon]

Genuinely curious. What is a generic videogame crossover in this example? What's an example of one already on the market?

I'm just failing to see what you're trying to say. If only the most iconic ones were selected, would that not be generic? What other fighters have a cast similar to what we have, thus making them generic? I'm confused.

Well, look at something like Project X Zone. A mish-mash of characters thrown together with no logic or connection between them. No regard for history, themes, connections, importance, or anything. Just whichever anime-aesthetic videogame character is relevant and popular at the time. ... And Segata Senshiro is there too for some reason. I'd rather that not happen to Smash.

I especially don't want Smash to lean hard into Roy/Corrin selection process and choose characters based on how lucrative they are for Nintendo, putting resources into the game purely as a marketing strategy for untapped audiences and purely for advertising another company's game. And before you say it, yeah, Marth was an exception to that, and in the end that decision worked out for the better, but in today's age, those decisions are definitely less acceptable and far more cynical.

 

[Noipoi]

I get not liking a holocaust denier but wishing they would die so they can't profit off of something they made seems a bit messed up to me.

...what?

 

[StormC]

I get not liking a holocaust denier but wishing they would die so they can't profit off of something they made seems a bit messed up to me.

I'm Jewish, so.

Dude's old as hell anyway. His time isn't far off.

 

[Deleted member]

How the hell does thread always find a way to talk politics?

 

[Raxxel]

View attachment 175980
...what?

Welcome to general thread. We cover all topics here.

 

[staindgrey]

While I haven't heard about any of this negativity before, I can't say I'm surprised. The company had a massive amount of talent drain after Metroid Prime 3, like you said. A lot of them went to form Armature Studio, and do such amazing things like... port a bunch of other developers' games, make ReCore, and make Dead Star, a multiplayer game that had its online functions shut down in less than half a year.

And, y'know, I didn't hate ReCore. But I had way too high of expectations considering who was making it.

Post-"complete edition" expansion, it's actually a lovely game. But too little too late by then. I'm sure it didn't meet sales expectations in the slightest.

 

[Deleted member]

I wonder if Stadium will return through DLC. I wouldn't be too surprised if Sakurai slipped something like that in as a free update sometime next year.

 

[MSmariosonic]

Personally not having Nintendo history for a third party is not a huge deal for me, as long as there is. I mean, it'd be hypocritical of me to say otherwise because Snake's incusion in MGS led me to get into his series, one that is now very near and dear to my heart. You have your pseudo-Nintendo characters like Mega Man and Simon Belmont, your characters that are recognizable no matter what like Pac-Man, and your psuedo-Sony characters like Cloud and Snake. That's fine, because those characters are big enough that they bring the "worlds collide" sentiment and really emphasize the "guest character" part. I guess Katalina would be a "worlds collide" for mobile games...? She just isn't anywhere near the level of who we have.

I agree

For me, 3rd parties shouldn't be these nobodies who only a really, really small fraction of people know. The 3rd parties I want are usually from major gaming franchises with a long history.

It's partially the reason why i'm not looking forward to most indie characters tbh.

 

[lightdrago]

What I want for DLC are...

-Phoenix Wright
-Geno
-Steve
-Tails

The fifth slot can go to whoever, as my other wants are pretty unlikely at this point.

 

[RyuhoFox]

View attachment 175980
...what?

I have a general thing against wishing death on people honestly. I guess being a gamer with everyone sending death threats to people I just got tired of people wishing death on others. *shrugs*

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

I wonder if Stadium will return through DLC. I wouldn't be too surprised if Sakurai slipped something like that in as a free update sometime next year.

Is Pokemon Stadium, you know that place everybody in Melee always would be at not in this game?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Well, look at something like Project X Zone. A mish-mash of characters thrown together with no logic or connection between them. No regard for history, themes, connections, importance, or anything. Just whichever anime-aesthetic character is relevant and popular at the time. ... And Segata Senshiro is there for some reason.

I especially don't want Smash to lean hard into Roy/Corrin selection process and choose characters based on how lucrative they are for Nintendo, putting resources into the game purely as a marketing strategy for untapped audiences. And before you say it, yeah, Marth was an exception to that, and in the end that decision worked out for the better, but in today's age, those decisions are definitely less acceptable.

Which is sad, since PXZ is an almost complete 180 from Namco X Capcom, which had plenty of fun scenarios and had mascots mingle with each other (I mean, the Mega Man Legends and Captain Commando casts in the same game with Klonoa and Time Crisis' heroes? Madness!). It's like they suddenly developed an allergy to good crossovers. Not even Mario was in there, and they gutted out Tron Bonne for the sequel, to add insult to injury.

Then again, I suspect Banpresto is to blame for that somehow.

I agree

For me, 3rd parties shouldn't be these nobodies who only a really, really small fraction of people know. The 3rd parties I want are usually from major gaming franchises with a long history.

It's partially the reason why i'm not looking forward to most indie characters tbh.

As far as indies go, I'd be fine with them as long as they stuck around long enough and are well-known (Shovel Knight, Shantae, Quote, Jason, etc). Not just have some random joe whose game isn't out yet for anyone to judge.

 

[FalcoXP]

I think that the whole "that character has no history with nintendo" discussion became obsolete since Snake and Sonic inclusion in Brawl.

 

[WaddleMatt]

So what's happening, anything interesting?

 

[Tinarg]

Is Pokemon Stadium, you know that place everybody in Melee always would be at not in this game?

Pokemon Stadium 1 and 2 are in I think. He's talking about the stadium modes like Home-Run Contest, Target Smash, etc.

 

[staindgrey]

Well, look at something like Project X Zone. A mish-mash of characters thrown together with no logic or connection between them. No regard for history, themes, connections, importance, or anything. Just whichever anime-aesthetic character is relevant and popular at the time. ... And Segata Senshiro is there for some reason.

I especially don't want Smash to lean hard into Roy/Corrin selection process and choose characters based on how lucrative they are for Nintendo, putting resources into the game purely as a marketing strategy for untapped audiences. And before you say it, yeah, Marth was an exception to that, and in the end that decision worked out for the better, but in today's age, those decisions are definitely less acceptable.

Oh, I wasn't about to say anything about Marth. I wasn't trying to be argumentative. I was genuinely curious because I couldn't think of anything to fit the bill.

I kind of forgot about Project X Zone since I was thinking solely of fighters. Most every fighting game strays from third party additions aside from one or two per game, so I struggled to see how was generic, or how adding a WTF character like Katalina would make it so. I just wanted to understand.

 

[Noipoi]

I have a general thing against wishing death on people honestly. I guess being a gamer with everyone sending death threats to people I just got tired of people wishing death on others. *shrugs*

I don't wish death on anyone either, but I have no idea why we're talking about this.

 

[lightdrago]

I think that the whole "that character has no history with nintendo" discussion became obsolete since Snake and Sonic inclusion in Brawl.

Not sure about Snake, but I'd argue Sonic has huge history with Nintendo. Wasn't Sonic vs Mario (Sega vs Nintendo) the craze back in the day, with their two most popular IPs pitted against each other by gamers?

 

[Raxxel]

I think that the whole "that character has no history with nintendo" discussion became obsolete since Snake and Sonic inclusion in Brawl.

But Snake and Sonic literally do have history with Nintendo. What.