Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Mellowy Yellow]

A trailer with Sora showing up, then all of a sudden he's shot by a beam. He looks behind him, and there's Geno.

That's pure hype energy right there.

I would SCREAM so much out of happiness that i would end up fainting in the process.

 

[doomedtacox]

Probably, I mean at this point they had to even bring Pixar AND Marvel into the mix to make sure all the licensing checked out.

Not only did they have to go through Disney they had to get Disney’s approval to go through Pixar, for Toy Story and Monsters Inc., and Marvel, for Big Hero 6, and THEN dish it out with those two companies. It’s an impressive feat what they’ve been able to do with KHIII, it really is. People don’t realize how much work it takes behind the scenes of these big crossover games before development even starts. And we ALL know how terrible development can be. The crunch is real nowadays.

Fortnite got Thanos, Smash can get Sora.

 

[Dyllybirdy]

but nothing's impossible.

There are quite a couple of impossible things in this universe.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Kingdom Hearts is getting into Smash if Sora makes it.

Kingdom Hearts is a Disney crossover.

If Sakurai is going to add it. He's not going to forget that.

This is a man who only adds a franchise if he feels he's been faithful to it.

He's not going to erase Disney. It just doesn't seem his style.

So you guys are either going to have to accept that to get Kingdom Hearts you'll be getting Disney elements or there's a strong chance it never gets in because Sakurai isn't willing to erase them.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Or......even better.

Oh, it's just another stupid Bowsette mem-
>SHULKETTE

 

[zabimaru1000]

I would SCREAM so much out of happiness that i would end up fainting in the process.

If I see this actually happening I would cry tears of joy

 

[Misery Brick]

Am I the only one who thinks both Sora and Geno could happen?
I'm not saying it's likely, but it's a possibility.

I think it's feasible.
I just don't think they would both happen in the same season pass. Like I could see Sora happening in this one, and Geno coming at a later date. Or vice versa.

 

[Noipoi]

I think it's feasible.
I just don't think they would both happen in the same season pass. Like I could see Sora happening in this one, and Geno coming at a later date. Or vice versa.

Yeah, that's what i'm thinking too.
I don't think there's only gonna be five dlc characters for all of Ultimate.

 

[PSIGuy]

Oh, it's just another stupid Bowsette mem-
>SHULKETTE
View attachment 175587

We already have a female Shulk, though.

Her name is Fiora. Seriously, she looks more like Shulk's sibling than Dunban's.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Birth by sleep. You don’t have Goofy or Donald or even Sora.

In 358/2 daysyou only have Roxas and Organization xiii

In 3D, it’s just Sora and Riku and therir partners aren’t even Disney. They’re original spirits made for the game.

Sora doesn’t need them for a crossover appearance elsewhere. It would help and it would be the truest incarnation to have them appear somehow, but it isn’t a deal breaker.

 

[DraginHikari]

Well, ****. Now I'm kinda wondering if Sakurai and the dev team are willing to go THAT far, because it looks like with Final Fantasy VII that was the farthest Sakurai could feasibly go.

DLC can be a bit easier simply because they only have the negotiate for the one time use of the character and don't have to worry about having legal rights to display the character in other materials. There is a reason Cloud among other 3rd parties were not featured as heavily in things like World of Light trailer. So it's more plausible then it was in the base game. I just think people should be careful assuming it an assured thing or an easy thing to do because it's generally not.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I feel like that's a rather pessimistic way of looking at it. I feel like Corporate Disney wouldn't be so fast to turn down Smash. It's the Infinity Wars of video games, and represents a massive opportunity for profit and promotion. Additionally, if Sakurai has Normura at his side to help negotiations, I feel like he has a much better chance, given Disney's respect for him.

Disney has stated that a major point in using the Kingdom Hearts IP is representing it faithfully, and who better to do so than Sakurai? Dude has a proven track record of doing this, as proven with every series in Smash Bros.

If anyone can do this, it's Sakurai.

I’m not trying to be pessimistic at all, honestly, it you gotta realize that we’re not talking about a little studio that can get things done ASAP with negotiations. We’re talking about the literal biggest entertainment conglomerate in the world. The biggest. A company comprised of multiple subsidiaries that does multi-billion dollars worth of revenue through toys and movies, and they don’t outsource to make their toys either. They have a department for that.

You see, Kingdom Hearts itself is a miracle. It really is. Disney will NOT allow Sora in Smash unless they make money off of it for years and years to come. You have companies coming to Disney every day offering chunks of their stock to just be able to license a single character onto their product. Nintendo is NOT going to offer Disney a chunk of their stock, an exclusive toy deal, an exclusive film deal, etc. for good reason. But Disney REQUIRES that. In their mind if they aren’t making a LOT of money from it, they’re losing money on it.

Sakurai has a lot of pull in the industry but does he have enough pull to change Disney from the inside out? I don’t think so.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Birth by sleep. You don’t have Goofy or Donald or even Sora.

In 358/2 daysyou only have Roxas and Organization xiii

In 3D, it’s just Sora and Riku and therir partners aren’t even Disney. They’re original spirits made for the game.

Sora doesn’t need them for a crossover appearance elsewhere. It would help and it would be the truest incarnation to have them appear somehow, but it isn’t a deal breaker.

Kingdom Hearts Union Cross also uses Disney Worlds as simple backdrops, and the movie based on it doesn't have any Disney in it as far as I know.

The only Kingdom Hearts game where Disney was truly involved in the story was Kingdom Hearts 1. From there on Disney worlds became backdrops for the main plot of the game (i.e. Organization 13) to unfold.

 

[MainJPW]

We already have a female Shulk, though.

It’s less a female Shulk and more a Shulk with Peach’s body. That’s how the Super Crown works.

 

[Idon]

I’m not trying to be pessimistic at all, honestly, it you gotta realize that we’re not talking about a little studio that can get things done ASAP with negotiations. We’re talking about the literal biggest entertainment conglomerate in the world. The biggest. A company comprised of multiple subsidiaries that does multi-billion dollars worth of revenue through toys and movies, and they don’t outsource to make their toys either. They have a department for that.

You see, Kingdom Hearts itself is a miracle. It really is. Disney will NOT allow Sora in Smash unless they make money off of it for years and years to come. You have companies coming to Disney every day offering chunks of their stock to just be able to license a single character onto their product. Nintendo is NOT going to offer Disney a chunk of their stock, an exclusive toy deal, an exclusive film deal, etc. for good reason. But Disney REQUIRES that. In their mind if they aren’t making a LOT of money from it, they’re losing money on it.

Sakurai has a lot of pull in the industry but does he have enough pull to change Disney from the inside out? I don’t think so.

Boy, htting us with the cold hard reality.

 

[osby]

There are quite a couple of impossible things in this universe.

Not really, everything is possible, just some have very small chances of happening.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Kingdom Hearts is getting into Smash if Sora makes it.

Kingdom Hearts is a Disney crossover.

If Sakurai is going to add it. He's not going to forget that.

This is a man who only adds a franchise if he feels he's been faithful to it.

He's not going to erase Disney. It just doesn't seem his style.

So you guys are either going to have to accept that to get Kingdom Hearts you'll be getting Disney elements or there's a strong chance it never gets in because Sakurai isn't willing to erase them.

Then we aren’t getting Sora.

Sakurai doesn’t want characters who did not
originate in a video game in smash. Donald and Goofy do not.

Riku does. Kairi does. Roxas does. They’re more likely than Donald and Goofy.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Fortnite got Thanos, Smash can get Sora.

First of all, Thanos is a Marvel character. And though Disney gets a say so Marvel gets the final word. Marvel Entertainment is a far more grounded corporate company than Disney.

Secondly, do you want to Sora to be available to play for a month, online only, then pulled from the game? No. Timed licensing deals are FAR easier to justify than what we all want for Sora.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Kingdom Hearts Union Cross also uses Disney Worlds as simple backdrops, and the movie based on it doesn't have any Disney in it as far as I know.

The only Kingdom Hearts game where Disney was truly involved in the story was Kingdom Hearts 1. From there on Disney worlds became backdrops for the main plot of the game (i.e. Organization 13) to unfold.

And yet the Disney of it all is how Square continues to tease each new major installment in the franchise.

You guys for some reason are severely downplaying just how much Disney is the reason why KH continues to thrive and it's honestly weird.

No one is even saying that the original elements don't matter or matter less, but rather it's strange that a bunch of people with Sora avatars seem to think a man who loves to remain faithful to a game is going to erase every element of Disney from a Disney crossover just to get the main character in despite the fact Disney is written all over the series and it's success.

If I know Sakurai he's just not going to be able to ignore the Disney of it all.

 

[Calane]

Did someone say ARGUMENT? I love those!

I'm pretty sure the statement about the leak that ruffled Square Enix's feathers was made around the same time Spawn Wave hinted at Sora. Don't quote me on that though. Which leak do you believe it was?

Well, I've been thinking hard about it for a while, and to me the only thing that makes sense is the LeakyPandy rumor. Yes, I know they are not credible, but I personally don't think being wrong before means you're going to be wrong forever. I'm not saying I believe it, but it does line up pretty well with what we know so far. I'll try to explain what I mean:

- I believe it lines up perfectly with the supposed leak happening around September/October, and the rumor itself was very quickly dismissed due to the person (people?) it came from, so most everyone just sort of overlooked it and threw it in the trash right away. People don't trust LeakyPandy, and I'm sure it's for very good reason. I don't know enough about them to really have an opinion myself.

- Spawn Wave claimed something similar. I actually hear that he claimed it first and that LeakyPandy is just taking Spawn Wave's rumor and spouting it as their own. Though, if that were the case, I don't see why LeakyPandy would add stuff to it that wasn't in the original rumor. If the rumor turns out being true, but nothing they added to it did, then it would just worsen their reputation when they could have just played it safe by claiming exactly what SW said and leaving it at that. If they're lying and trying to ride the success of someone else's rumor, then they aren't being very smart about it. I get the impression that they're trying to better their poor reputation, so I would think they wouldn't want to take an insane risk like that. This makes me think that LP and SW probably received this information from different sources.

- The information in the "leak" seemed to be rather specific and odd if it were all just made up. Saying things like "The plan is having the reveal ride the hype of the franchise being awarded as best in genre this year", "Marketing is concerned the game will stay just as a nominee due to possible resistance from the jury as a political move against the game", and "historically, Game Awards judges have favored U.S. made games, so uncertainty rises as what could get nominated in this category is somewhat loose so, while nomination of the franchise is very much guaranteed, the award isn't" doesn't sound like info someone would make up just because. It reads like it's from someone involved in SE's marketing or maybe even someone involved in setting up the VGAs or something like that. It kind of paints this picture that they want to make the announcement of this franchise's arrival into Smash a pretty big deal. If they really want to hype up DQ and its entry into smash, info like this leaking out would definitely upset the company. It's not the strongest argument, but it's something to consider, I think.

- I once saw someone on here say that it's probably fake because making a DQ announcement at what's mostly a "western focused event" would be weird, or something along those lines. However, to me, this makes the rumor seem even more risky for someone to put out. Especially LeakyPandy who seems to want to improve their image, I think. DQ is a very risky franchise to hint at being in Smash for various reasons, especially for someone who wants to appear legitimate and hopefully seem right due to a lucky guess or something. To hint that a DQ character will be announced at the Game Awards of all things, it just doesn't seem like a smart thing for a fake leaker to do. This tells me that they may have actually heard this info from somewhere, and that they truly believe it whether it tuns out being true or false. Due to the circumstances surrounding it at the moment, I'm starting to think that there may be some truth to it, even if some of it is wrong.

- I believe Vergeben pointed out how they knew that a Square Enix character would be DLC before that had even been confirmed to be the case. This probably doesn't mean anything, but it's still interesting to note. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe even Vergeben was sure if the SE rep was DLC or not. It could be argued that they just took Spawn Wave's rumor, but I already explained why I'm doubtful that this is the case.

- Lastly, it has yet to be proven false. In fact, they actually got Skull Kid not being playable right. The closest it's gotten to being disproved so far is Skull Kid not being a boss, but instead an AT. However, Rathalos proves that it is indeed possible to be both, so it'd be impossible to confirm it right or wrong until someone plays through "World of Light" and finds out.

It's all very interesting, but the main thing holding it back is LeakyPandy's track record. It really gets me thinking, but I'll admit that I'm someone who's always overthinking things. It's probably nothing and they're just playing with my poor DQ-loving heart.

Sorry for the long-winded post.

I hope I don't anger anyone by entertaining the thought that LP could be right, even though they're not credible.

 

[Robertman2]

That's what we've heard. But it's Bison, not Tyson.
There're instances of market familiarization like Rockman going for Mega Man. But I still don't get the angrey Kirby faces.. anger in everything, why?

still close enough for a lawsuit. And market appeal

people seem surprised by this. who would this mandatory 1st party Nintendo character even be?

I dunno. Bandana Dee is the only notable character I can think of. Or Savy Stylist.

So this is Games and More...
View attachment 175568
Seems to Remove:

• All Stars
• Target Blast
• Homerun Contest
• Stage Builder
• Master Orders
• Crazy Orders
• Character Costumization
• Trophies

Seems like Ultimate's Single Player is going to be shallow.

More like Sakurai trimmed the fat. Good riddance to all these modes outside of Home Run Contest

 

[Zippo]

Something that probably wasn't intentional but I think is neat:

The very first trailer of Smash 4 took place in the same boxing ring that we see in the Incineroar/Ken trailer:

And now, 5 years later, we're back here again, with the last new reveal before it's sequel launches:

it really does feel like bookends.

 

[Deleted member]

I’m not trying to be pessimistic at all, honestly, it you gotta realize that we’re not talking about a little studio that can get things done ASAP with negotiations. We’re talking about the literal biggest entertainment conglomerate in the world. The biggest. A company comprised of multiple subsidiaries that does multi-billion dollars worth of revenue through toys and movies, and they don’t outsource to make their toys either. They have a department for that.

You see, Kingdom Hearts itself is a miracle. It really is. Disney will NOT allow Sora in Smash unless they make money off of it for years and years to come. You have companies coming to Disney every day offering chunks of their stock to just be able to license a single character onto their product. Nintendo is NOT going to offer Disney a chunk of their stock, an exclusive toy deal, an exclusive film deal, etc. for good reason. But Disney REQUIRES that. In their mind if they aren’t making a LOT of money from it, they’re losing money on it.

Sakurai has a lot of pull in the industry but does he have enough pull to change Disney from the inside out? I don’t think so.

Well, there goes all my hope for Sora. It's like anytime I put faith into people's characters like Isaac and Shadow there's always some way to get them ****ed lmao

I guess when it comes to Square, there can only be one character I have in mind, and it's Geno. Does Sora have much more of a pull? Of-****ing-course, but I didn't know that the whole legality rabbit hole would be this deep.

 

[Nethermoosen]

And yet the Disney of it all is how Square continues to tease each new major installment in the franchise.

You guys for some reason are severely downplaying just how much Disney is the reason why KH continues to thrive and it's honestly weird.

No one is even saying that the original elements don't matter or matter less, but rather it's strange that a bunch of people with Sora avatars seem to think a man who loves to remain faithful to a game is going to erase every element of Disney from a Disney crossover just to get the main character in despite the fact Disney is written all over the series and it's success.

If I know Sakurai he's just not going to be able to ignore the Disney of it all.

I feel like his origin as a Disney owned character is pretty Disney. So is his keychain.

Disney is as important as you say. No one downplayed that. But again, Sakurai is not cool with characters who don’t originate from games. If you know Sakurai, you know that.

 

[Robertman2]

A trailer with Sora showing up, then all of a sudden he's shot by a beam. He looks behind him, and there's Geno.

That's pure hype energy right there.

That's some crap fanfiction you got right there. Most people would be at Sora's treatment in the trailer, and rightfully so

 

[SuperSceptile15]

When an imposter of Rex gets into Smash but not the actual Driver:

 

[Shroob]

I mean, hey, I'd be down with Dragon Quest too.


.........Hey, what if this DLC cycle is literally just 'mooks'.



What if was a warning?


Think about it.


Piranha Plant? DQ Slime? Creeper? We're all sitting here thinking "It's Steve", but....... the Creeper is the FACE of Minecraft, bar none, and if can ****ing work....

 

[Robertman2]

Also watch as we not only get Sora, but Sakurai keeps the Disney references. Up to and including Donald and Goofy in Sora's final smash.

 

[Zinith]

So what's all this hullabaloo about Sora? I know of Spawn Wave saying he'll be revealed at the VGAs but what has everyone saying he's in all of a sudden?

 

[SuperSceptile15]

A trailer with Sora showing up, then all of a sudden he's shot by a beam. He looks behind him, and there's Geno.

That's pure hype energy right there.

More like anti-hype.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I feel like his origin as a Disney owned character is pretty Disney. So is his keychain.

Disney is as important as you say. No one downplayed that. But again, Sakurai is not cool with characters who don’t originate from games. If you know Sakurai, you know that.

I also know Sakurai to be a man who is capable of change and how his thought process also changes.

Numerous fighters in the series now directly counter what the man has said before.

Villager, Ridley, even to a degree Bayonetta, etc, etc.

 

[Ezclapper]

One thing to mention about Sora though, A Disney executive has come out to say Sora would be fine for smash so there must be an agreement in place if he was to be in the game. So i don't really understand why people are still making this argument.

 

[Nethermoosen]

I also know Sakurai to be a man who is capable of change and he's showed just that.

Numerous fighters in the series now directly counter what the man has said before.

Villager, Ridley, even to a degree Bayonetta, etc, etc.

Well, I hope you’re right. It would be kind of amazing to see them perform trinity limit.

Now, if only we could be sure he is even getting in. Lol

 

[Robertman2]

also technically dracula originated from a book not castlevania

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I’m not saying Sora is impossible, I mean nothing is impossible, but if Sora gets in then we better not EVER ask Sakurai for anything EVER again because, if Sora got in, that means that he probably just sold his soul to the damn devil. The dude is a mad man so Sora COULD happen. COULD. It would take a, nay, multiple miracles of perfect negotiation for it to happen though.

Is it really worth THAT much trouble to get Sora when you can get just as good of a reaction from someone like Banjo or Geno? I dunno.

 

[Idon]

also technically dracula originated from a book not castlevania

Yeah, but Dracula is royalty free, like Greek mythology, which is what KI's built off.

 

[Bee Card]

Not really, everything is possible, just some have very small chances of happening.

Even our boi Isaac to be in the game finally ? I think there's 0% chances...

 

[Nethermoosen]

One thing to mention about Sora though, A Disney executive has come out to say Sora would be fine for smash so there must be an agreement in place if he was to be in the game. So i don't really understand why people are still making this argument.

Reasonable doubt. Wrapping our heads around what we really just don’t know. Pessimistic views emerging from a fear of crushed hopes. Keeping expectations in check. Some of us just don’t want to see the community go to shambles if it doesn’t happen. Some just don’t want him in. Banjo was also said to be okay for smash.

The human condition, man. Freaking whack.

 

[Bee Card]

Reasonable doubt. Wrapping our heads around what we really just don’t know. Pessimistic views emerging from a fear of crushed hopes. Keeping expectations in check. Some of us just don’t want to see the community go to shambles if it doesn’t happen. Some just don’t want him in. Banjo was also said to be okay for smash.

The human condition, man. Freaking whack.

Isn't Sora a property of SE ?

 

[NineS]

You know, something just hit me.
Vergeben's leaked character is a Square Enix character, but...

Is Sora actually a Square Enix Character?
He's technically owned by Disney, isn't he? Would that make him a Disney character?

I know the games that he stars in are made by Square Enix, but he's owned by Disney. Is Sora a Square Enix character in the same vein that Bayonetta would be a Platinum Games Character? Or is he a Disney character in the same vein that Geno is a Square Enix character, despite starring in a Mario Game published by Nintendo?

I'm not trying to say he's not likely, or that Geno is. It's just a realization that hit me.
Is Sora a Square Enix character, despite being owned by Disney?