Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Kuon]

Let's play a game...
Let's just say you were Sakurai, and you were planning the base roster for Super Smash Bros Ultimate.
What changes would make in terms of Newcomers?
Rules:

You are free to replace as many characters as you like, but:
If you replace or , you need to replace them with an echo fighter
If you replace or, you need to replace them with a first or second party character
If you replace or , you need to replace them with another first or second party echo
If you replace , you need to replace her with a first or second party semiclone
If you replace ,you need to replace him with another third party character
No character that debuted after 2016


Here's what i would do...
Replace with

EDIT: Wow, I'm getting lot's of hate for this change... too bad, it's my roster

So the roster would look like

I'd replace with

I'd replace with

I'd replace with

I'd replace with

Come and get it. Come at me

 

[GoeGoe]

KirbyWorshipper2465 Woah! Didn't notice Master Higgins and PC Kid in your sig. before. I'm all in for that. You know what you're doing.
I think Sparkster, Marina and Rash should be part of that too.

 

[JacobLeBeauOFFICIAL]

I think it just seems like mode content is light. If you think about it, it's actually more than Wii U's it's just that the dev time for those modes were allocated to different things:

-The core Smash mode has a ton of options and new modes now
-Spirits is a rework for events, and is a hub for different modes, not just Spirit Battles
-WoL is straight up Adventure Mode
-Classic seems to be tailored for each character, meaning special conditions and battles for each of the 74 fighters.
-Multi-Man stuff is still there

The only thing that seems to have been unfortunately gutted was All-Star, which is a shame. However, it was probably out of necessity: I don't know how well the old All-Star mode format would have worked with 74 fighters, with the end number being 80 by the time DLC is all said and done...

No stage builder, no trophies, no stadium modes...I hope they get readded in some form.

 

[Izayoi]

I find it incredibly weird that Ike and Marth were updated with their Heroes voices but Roy wasn't.

The full roster demo might've been done a while back and maybe voice acting wasn't finished by the time they shipped the demo.


It might be the reason why Robin still has Chrom as a Final Smash.


I could be wrong though.

 

[SargeAbernathy]

I really like how you're explaining your thoughts. I was with your previous post until you talked about Plant because I love him as a surprise newcomer, but your elaboration makes a lot of sense. I don't have a ton to add, just that I like your tone a lot and you raise some great concerns about things you weren't on board with without going into mad spirals of rage about why this is the worst thing to ever happen.

Great stuff.

Thank the people who asked me for checks on my opinion. I was harsh there, because I admit I felt a little hurt by it. But people on the board willing to engage in healthy debate can have a profound affect. I'm understanding why Piranha is becoming beloved, and I'm glad people are willing to understand why it was initially a frustration.


Thank you for the response.

 

[zabimaru1000]

Vergeben's still doubling down on a 2nd SE character as DLC.

Spawn Wave, a guy with a currently perfect leak record, says he's coming at next month's VGAs.

I'm pretty confused about this. I know Spawn Wave has been talking about VGA related news but I don't think they've ever said anything about Sora.

 

[staindgrey]

I like him.
I just like... a lot of people way more than him.

Said the collective Smash community in near-unison.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

The only thing that seems to have been unfortunately gutted was All-Star, which is a shame. However, it was probably out of necessity: I don't know how well the old All-Star mode format would have worked with 74 fighters, with the end number being 80 by the time DLC is all said and done...

Yeah, would have been a pretty hefty challenge, so I ain't mad.

KirbyWorshipper2465 Woah! Didn't notice Master Higgins and PC Kid in your sig, before. I'm all in for that. You know what you're doing.
I think Sparkster, Marina and Rash should be part of that too.

Will do add Spark and Rash, as soon as my current requests (Duke Nukem, Papyrus & Sans) are done. I can add Marina in the meantime, as slim as her chances are.

 

[Idon]

I'd replace with View attachment 175373
I'd replace with View attachment 175374View attachment 175380 View attachment 175382 and View attachment 175387
I'd replace with View attachment 175378
I'd replace with View attachment 175384 and View attachment 175385

Come and get it. Come at me

Ya get ONE, SON.

 

[Will]

I believe the logic was:
Spirits that are of playable characters cannot be equipped.
Ergo, if a spirit is equippable, it cannot be playable.

If we knew what spirits weren't equippable, that would spoil the whole DLC, implying they're all first parties.
Ergo, it cannot be determined by what spirits can or cannot be equipped because DLC is optional and what you can equip wouldn't influence the actual character presented because you have the choice to not play them.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

I'm pretty confused about this. I know Spawn Wave has been talking about VGA related news but I don't think they've ever said anything about Sora.

He's hinted at him a couple times

I think he's the punching bag because a lot of us here aren't really attached to the newer pokemon. If this were Charizard, he has nostalgia on his side. Incineroar is virtually an unknown to people who didn't play Sun/Moon (or didn't pick his evolution chain as their starter) because the original 151 are the Pokemon that are constantly marketed.

It's not so much that people hate Incineroar. It's that he's the easiest one to replace with someone else because there's no emotional attachment there for many users. I have nothing against Pokemon. I just don't care for Incineroar. I can't even name his middle evolution.

Torracat, By the way...

 

[Nekoo]

Can we stop with the spirits deconfirming characters thing? Explain to me how Mewtwo being a trophy didn't deconfirm him but spirits deconfirm characters.

Mewtwo wasn't planned at the begining unlike the DLC for Ultimate

 

[theromfather]

I’m still hyped for this game but I feel like it was rushed. So many modes and trophies discontinued. Spirits mode uses 2D stickers which is clearly a way to cut development time. I’m glad we got all these fighters and even though the fake grinch leak diminished the hype a bit, I just can’t help but think that they did rush to get this game out. I wish they would have delayed it or not even announced it as early as they did so they could have taken more time to flesh the game out a bit more.

Gonna miss stadium events , sandbag , stage builder, etc. Maybe I’m in the minority here but I really liked all that stuff. Of course trophies too...

Oh well it is what it is. I’m excited for the game to come out either way. But there’s a whole lot of deconfirming goin on in these parts and I guess it could be interpreted as Sakurai wanting to focus solely on the fighting mechanics being optimized more than anything else.

 

[Deleted member]

Y'know, I wonder if the Switch Pro Controller could serve as a replacement for the Gamecube controller?

 

[Cosmic77]

On the spirits thing, Sakurai specifically said there are "fighter spirits" which can't be equipped and are only there for cosmetic purposes, he then bought a Daisy fighter spirit, so yeah, anything with a spirit that's actually equippable with it's exact name (no super sonic, naked snake or wii fit poses but the actual characters) is mostly deconfirmed

Two Spirits sharing a name? Almost as crazy as having two Mewtwo trophies with the exact same name.

Look, I don't know how Sakurai implemented possible first-party DLC characters into Ultimate. Maybe he thought Spirits would be a soft way of disconfirming a character. Maybe he didn't even give it a second thought and added unrevealed DLC characters as Spirits just for the heck of it. Regardless, I really don't see how we can come up with a conclusive answer on this, especially when there are instances like the Smash 4 trophies and background Toon Link that make a person want to avoid jumping to hasty conclusions. Clearly this is something that could be worked around if it was needed.

You can either base your arguement on the Spirit's presence meaning something, or the Spirit's presence meaning absolutely nothing. Both are opinions, neither are absolute.

 

[Will]

I’m still hyped for this game but I feel like it was rushed. So many modes and trophies discontinued. Spirits mode uses 2D stickers which is clearly a way to cut development time. I’m glad we got all these fighters and even though the fake grinch leak diminished the hype a bit, I just can’t help but think that they did rush to get this game out. I wish they would have delayed it or not even announced it as early as they did so they could have taken more time to flesh the game out a bit more.

Gonna miss stadium events , sandbag , stage builder, etc. Maybe I’m in the minority here but I really liked all that stuff. Of course trophies too...

Oh well it is what it is. I’m excited for the game to come out either way. But there’s a whole lot of deconfirming goin on in these parts and I guess it could be interpreted as Sakurai wanting to focus solely on the fighting mechanics being optimized more than anything else.

We don't know all the modes that have been cut though. I don't think they've been translated.

 

[Hydrualic Hydra]

Yeah, because he's referred to as Kaptain K. Rool in that game. And Super Sonic is Super Sonic, not Sonic.
These are empty names, aliases for current fighters and other forms that they use consistently in their series. It means literally nothing.


No it isn't, this is the exact opposite.
Conductor Link was used to prove Toon Link wasn't in the game because well, he was there.
Geno is a spirit, and therefore by your logic, Geno isn't going to be playable in the game because well, he's there.

To your first point, again, once we actually get a non-Fighter Spirit that is LITERALLY just the plain fighter character, then you'll have a leg to stand on with this argument.

And to your second, do you even read what you type before you post it? Conductor Link is a different Link from Wind Waker's Toon Link, he did not deconfirm regular Toon Link coming back. The Kaptain and Super Sonic are not JUST the plain fighter, they are alternate forms or interpretations.

And as far as the Geno point you weirdly brought up, as far as we know, being a Spirit is the same as being a Trophy, and Mewtwo and Lucas' trophies didn't deconfirm them from DLC in Smash 4 (though I doubt Geno now that his only chance is DLC).

 

[Kuon]

Ya get ONE, SON.

Sorry, I got a little too excited. I changed it to one

 

[staindgrey]

Torracat, By the way...

Aw. That's a cute name. Not as cute as Litten, which is perfect, but I like it.

To be clear, I empathize with you. Daisy was all I really wanted if I could only pick one character, and immediately after I got her, I saw the collective community say, "Wait. Her?" She's constantly replaced in these fan games too. I feel you.

We all like what we like.

 

[theromfather]

We don't know all the modes that have been cut though. I don't think they've been translated.

Check GameXplain. They uploaded a video translating the highlights of the Sakurai video a little while ago.

Link: Here

 

[SlickWylde]

No stage builder, no trophies, no stadium modes...I hope they get readded in some form.

I somewhat agree with stadium modes (though I never liked them and only did them when it let me unlock stuff faster tbh), I don't really see a need for Stage Builder anymore, since we have so many stages in the game (plus they're 99% garbage and can't be played online). Trophies- whatever, I know some people like them so I get it, but I always thought they were a waste of time.

To me it seems like the changes made to the main smash mode are much more important, since most of us (not all, but most) will be spending pretty much all our time doing that. So I think this makes the game better for me, not worse.

 

[Deleted member]

I’m still hyped for this game but I feel like it was rushed. So many modes and trophies discontinued. Spirits mode uses 2D stickers which is clearly a way to cut development time. I’m glad we got all these fighters and even though the fake grinch leak diminished the hype a bit, I just can’t help but think that they did rush to get this game out. I wish they would have delayed it or not even announced it as early as they did so they could have taken more time to flesh the game out a bit more.

Gonna miss stadium events , sandbag , stage builder, etc. Maybe I’m in the minority here but I really liked all that stuff. Of course trophies too...

Oh well it is what it is. I’m excited for the game to come out either way. But there’s a whole lot of deconfirming goin on in these parts and I guess it could be interpreted as Sakurai wanting to focus solely on the fighting mechanics being optimized more than anything else.

I get being sad those modes are gone (I was pretty upset about it at first), but I've given it a lot of thought and I've come to the conclusion that for me personally, I'm kinda glad things turned out this way. I feel like Smash Wii U's biggest downfall was that the development time was used on all the wrong things by trying to cram in as many different things as possible. This game, however, feels much more focused in what it's trying to do, and as a result, the modes we do have feel more polished and worth playing.

 

[LetterO]

I'm still not convinced Spirits deconfirm characters. When the game launches, pretty much every 1st Party will be found to be represented and unless they want to go with a Suspiciously Specific Denial(imagine if only Elma's spirit was missing out of all Xenoblade characters), they aren't gonna let us deduce what characters are DLC based on missing Spirits. If we wanna go this route, then really, only unrepped 3rd Parties will be fair game.

Yeah, it's like if Nintendo spoiled the roster based on boxart. They wouldn't ever let us do that

 

[Mellowy Yellow]

Sorry pokemon fellas, but I'd replace with Geno. ( Yes, it still haven't gotten over it )

 

[Deleted member]

Also, here is my rankings of all the newcomers, unique and echo:

Uniqe:
#1.
#2.
#3.
#4.
#5.
#6.

Echo:
#1.
#2.
#3.
#4.
#5.

 

[Louisacommie]

Zelda has not had a unique newcomer since 2001

 

[CommanderZaktan]

Here's what I want for DLC
Banjo Kazooie
Bandana Dee
Edelgard
Sceptile, Decidueye, or the 8th gen Grass starter
Geno

 

[yeahmattm8]

I honestly think Elma will be DLC, Sakurai made a point of not being able to include Rex due to the roster already being decided on and with Xenoblade Chronicles X coming out a bit before the smash ballot it would make much more sense for it to be her. He's stated he enjoyed playing the 2nd game and with the fact he even included Shulk and the mii costume shows he considers the series as relevant and important. Also unlike smash 4 with mii costumes being tied in with specific newcomers they aren't even going to be dlc and if so Rex would have been perfect for Elma and it could even be a teaser for her. The fact he'd go through the length of this for Xenoblade makes me think she's a shoe in.

 

[The_Naraotor]

I'm still not convinced Spirits deconfirm characters. When the game launches, pretty much every 1st Party will be found to be represented and unless they want to go with a Suspiciously Specific Denial(imagine if only Elma's spirit was missing out of all Xenoblade characters), they aren't gonna let us deduce what characters are DLC based on missing Spirits. If we wanna go this route, then really, only unrepped 3rd Parties will be fair game.

King K.Rool would like a word with you he is a spirit as well as a playable character.

 

[yeahmattm8]

I honestly think Elma will be DLC, Sakurai made a point of not being able to include Rex due to the roster already being decided on and with Xenoblade Chronicles X coming out a bit before the smash ballot it would make much more sense for it to be her. He's stated he enjoyed playing the 2nd game and with the fact he even included Shulk and the mii costume shows he considers the series as relevant and important. Also unlike smash 4 with mii costumes being tied in with specific newcomers they aren't even going to be dlc and if so Rex would have been perfect for Elma and it could even be a teaser for her. The fact he'd go through the length of this for Xenoblade makes me think she's a shoe in.

Also others will probs just be steve, banjo, waddle dee and the square rep

 

[staindgrey]

I’m still hyped for this game but I feel like it was rushed. So many modes and trophies discontinued. Spirits mode uses 2D stickers which is clearly a way to cut development time. I’m glad we got all these fighters and even though the fake grinch leak diminished the hype a bit, I just can’t help but think that they did rush to get this game out. I wish they would have delayed it or not even announced it as early as they did so they could have taken more time to flesh the game out a bit more.

Gonna miss stadium events , sandbag , stage builder, etc. Maybe I’m in the minority here but I really liked all that stuff. Of course trophies too...

Oh well it is what it is. I’m excited for the game to come out either way. But there’s a whole lot of deconfirming goin on in these parts and I guess it could be interpreted as Sakurai wanting to focus solely on the fighting mechanics being optimized more than anything else.

Here's a question I'd like to pose to you and anyone else who's sad to see the stadium events go:

Would you pay for a stadium DLC to get those back, if it were offered?

 

[Kuon]

I'm still not convinced Spirits deconfirm characters. When the game launches, pretty much every 1st Party will be found to be represented and unless they want to go with a Suspiciously Specific Denial(imagine if only Elma's spirit was missing out of all Xenoblade characters), they aren't gonna let us deduce what characters are DLC based on missing Spirits. If we wanna go this route, then really, only unrepped 3rd Parties will be fair game.

And that's exactly what I expect dlc to be: unrepped third party characters

 

[theromfather]

I get being sad those modes are gone (I was pretty upset about it at first), but I've given it a lot of thought and I've come to the conclusion that for me personally, I'm kinda glad things turned out this way. I feel like Smash Wii U's biggest downfall was that the development time was used on all the wrong things by trying to cram in as many different things as possible. This game, however, feels much more focused in what it's trying to do, and as a result, the modes we do have feel more polished and worth playing.

Yeah seems like the focus was mostly on the fighting and I’m sure balancing out that huge roster is a pain during development. So far I’m liking the pace of the game from what I can see on video anyway and I’m sure it’s gonna play well because the bulk of development focused on the core mechanics as opposed to extra features.

 

[Will]

Mewtwo wasn't planned at the begining unlike the DLC for Ultimate

Ain't gonna repeat myself twice.

View attachment 175386

If we knew what spirits weren't equippable, that would spoil the whole DLC, implying they're all first parties.
Ergo, it cannot be determined by what spirits can or cannot be equipped because DLC is optional and what you can equip wouldn't influence the actual character presented because you have the choice to not play them.

To your first point, again, once we actually get a non-Fighter Spirit that is LITERALLY just the plain fighter character, then you'll have a leg to stand on with this argument.

To each his own.

And to your second, do you even read what you type before you post it? Conductor Link is a different Link from Wind Waker's Toon Link, he did not deconfirm regular Toon Link coming back. The Kaptain and Super Sonic are not JUST the plain fighter, they are alternate forms or interpretations.

What? Nobody thought Toon Link was deconfirmed when Spirit Tracks Link was -----------> first <---------------- shown?
If only we had someone as living evidence to prove that wasn't the case! Oh wait, I was literally there.
It's not me "not reading what I post", it's you not knowing your history.

And as far as the Geno point you weirdly brought up, as far as we know, being a Spirit is the same as being a Trophy, and Mewtwo and Lucas' trophies didn't deconfirm them from DLC in Smash 4 (though I doubt Geno now that his only chance is DLC).

Comparing is a sin? Take me to the sixth circle of hell then.

 

[Idon]

Y'know, I wonder if the Switch Pro Controller could serve as a replacement for the Gamecube controller?

AHahaha
Nope. Absolutely not.
They're as ingrained to Smash as fightsticks are ingrained to fighting games.
Plus, there will always be a market for wired controllers for people that dislike charging/changing batteries and dislike syncing controllers up, especially in the case of tournaments where you bring your own controller and have to switch out set to set. It's part of the reason why the Wii U gamepad was banned iirc.0

 

[Deleted member]

...Well ****, I guess The Game Awards is gonna be 11-0. ****ing RIP 10-0 insanity, BUT STILL THIS WILL BE INSANE TO SEE 10-0.

 

[Will]

Yeah, it's like if Nintendo spoiled the roster based on boxart. They wouldn't ever let us do that

Box theory never spoiled the roster, it spoiled the amount of base characters left.

 

[osby]

Zelda has not had a unique newcomer since 2001

Cool

Also, here is my rankings of all the newcomers, unique and echo:

Uniqe:
#1.
#2.
#3.
#4.
#5.
#6.

Echo:
#1.
#2.
#3.
#4.
#5.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>

 

[Cosmic77]

Zelda has not had a unique newcomer since 2001

And on the topic of that, Mipha wasn't seen as a Spirit yet.

Just sayin'. You guys really want a Zelda character, and you're acting like you'll accept anyone at this point. If that's true, then you'll have no issue with fish girl, right?

 

[Kuon]

Here's a question I'd like to pose to you and anyone else who's sad to see the stadium events go:

Would you pay for a stadium DLC to get those back, if it were offered?

If it's to get stage builder back, I'd pay $100 for it!