Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[PLATINUM7]

Mario could easily justify having two movesets because it's Mario, arguably the world's most iconic video game character. There are a lot of characters in the game that could have two versions of the same character. In fact, I'd rather have Classic Link, Twilight Link and Wild Link in and unique over some of the other oddball choices people throw around these days. That way, I can pick my favourite version of the character.

To each their own I guess.

I'd rather see unique characters with unique movesets. 2 Links on the roster is enough for me.

 

[Radical Bones]

So the Satellaview Helmet and Suit came out for Odyssey, as well as a baseball outfit.

Now Satellaview will get a minor fanbase on Smashboards and eventually we'll all be screaming that they MUST be included.

To each their own I guess.

I'd rather see unique characters with unique movesets. 2 Links on the roster is enough for me.

Yeah, I can see that point of view too and there are a few characters I'd still want to see before we go down that path. But if it's between a fully updated Toon Link to reflect WW and Spirit Tracks or that character from that Gameboy Colour Printer Korean Exclusive game* who would be soooo unique I'd rather the refreshed Toon Link.

*not a real game.

 

[Starcutter]

Come on, she’s already in Mario Kart, man! The least we need is overrepresentation.

I'm sorry, are you saying that having Isabelle in both Mario Kart and Smash would be "overrepresenting" Isabelle as a character?

I don't get it. Is Inkling getting overepresentated too?

 

[Radical Bones]

I'm sorry, are you saying that having Isabelle in both Mario Kart and Smash would be "overrepresenting" Isabelle as a character?

I don't get it. Is Inkling getting overepresentated too?

I say cut all characters who's ever been in more than one game aside from Smash. To much representation, man.

 

[Skeeter Mania]

I'm sorry, are you saying that having Isabelle in both Mario Kart and Smash would be "overrepresenting" Isabelle as a character?

I don't get it. Is Inkling getting overepresentated too?

I'm just a bit cautious because with Sm4sh, Fire Emblem got more exposure than in the previous two games combined.

But as far as this IP, Animal Crossing already gets good enough rep in Smash starting with Resetti being a Melee trophy you can only get if you have a save file of the original AC. Resetti also being an annoying Assist Trophy also kinda pushed the game to wider familiarity. Aside from that, two of the three AC stages we have in Smash are extremely popular in competitive play. And how about that K.K. Slider?

Maybe just add Isabelle, but no one else. Then we'd have a breakout situation very similar to Fire Emblem.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I'm just a bit cautious because with Sm4sh, Fire Emblem got more exposure than in the previous two games combined.

But as far as this IP, Animal Crossing already gets good enough rep in Smash starting with Resetti being a Melee trophy you can only get if you have a save file of the original AC. Resetti also being an annoying Assist Trophy also kinda pushed the game to wider familiarity. Aside from that, two of the three AC stages we have in Smash are extremely popular in competitive play. And how about that K.K. Slider?

Maybe just add Isabelle, but no one else. Then we'd have a breakout situation very similar to Fire Emblem.

1. Animal Crossing is not as popular as Fire Emblem
2. Animal Crossing doesn't have as much viable fighters as Fire Embelm

I think we're safe for now

 

[Twin Shot]

So the Satellaview Helmet and Suit came out for Odyssey, as well as a baseball outfit.

Now Satellaview will get a minor fanbase on Smashboards and eventually we'll all be screaming that they MUST be included.



Yeah, I can see that point of view too and there are a few characters I'd still want to see before we go down that path. But if it's between a fully updated Toon Link to reflect WW and Spirit Tracks or that character from that Gameboy Colour Printer Korean Exclusive game* who would be soooo unique I'd rather the refreshed Toon Link.

*not a real game.

Honestly, I think the Satellieview mascot duo will be the games “peripheral/wtf” character.

We’ve had:
Melee - Mr. G&W (Game and Watch Portables)
Brawl - ROB (Robotic Operating Buddy)
3DS and Wii U - Duck Hunt (Zapper)

All of the above reference old school Nintendo peripherals and combines them with references to games that incorporate said perils to make a new character out of an existing concept.

The Mario hat thing was really what got me thinking about it. Maybe the throwback in Oddessey is there for a reason - who knows, maybe the Nintendo online paid service will have some similar functionality included to make it even more relevant.

 

[Opossum]

I'm just a bit cautious because with Sm4sh, Fire Emblem got more exposure than in the previous two games combined.

But as far as this IP, Animal Crossing already gets good enough rep in Smash starting with Resetti being a Melee trophy you can only get if you have a save file of the original AC. Resetti also being an annoying Assist Trophy also kinda pushed the game to wider familiarity. Aside from that, two of the three AC stages we have in Smash are extremely popular in competitive play. And how about that K.K. Slider?

Maybe just add Isabelle, but no one else. Then we'd have a breakout situation very similar to Fire Emblem.

Animal Crossing is one of Nintendo's larger series. It absolutely dwarfs half the Nintendo franchises that already have playable characters. It's nowhere near in danger of being "overrepresented."

 

[Hinata]

I say cut all characters who's ever been in more than one game aside from Smash. To much representation, man.

From my calculations, that'd leave us about 5 characters.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

If we want Overrepresenting, Fire Emblem comes to mind

*puts on flame suit*

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I say cut all characters who's ever been in more than one game aside from Smash. To much representation, man.

That just leaves us with

too depending on weather you count the Game & Watch line as a singular game or not

 

[BluePikmin11]

1. Animal Crossing is not as popular as Fire Emblem
2. Animal Crossing doesn't have as much viable fighters as Fire Embelm

I think we're safe for now

That's looking at the series from a very narrow perspective, being honest here. Especially considering the sales of AC triumph FE global sales by three times:

To say there are not any remaining viable AC fighters is not considering that Villager was made into a fighter for SSB4, despite the character not generally being combat appropriate, applying the gameplay aspects of AC into the moveset. While characters like Tom Nook nor Isabelle might seem like they don't have potential because of Villager 'representing the entire series gameplay', they still have their personalities, large fanbases, AND moveset potential (When you base and imagine their movesets based on their characterization in the games ((merchant and mayor for example))) to warrant their playability in Smash.

 

[Hinata]

That just leaves us with

too depending on weather you count the Game & Watch line as a singular game or not

We also get , since his only appearance was Xenoblade 1.

 

[Skeeter Mania]

Not even him. He also appears in a compilation pack of the first two Mother games.

 

[Icedragonadam]

I avoided talking directly about cuts with thing I mentioned is characters I hope don't get cut. Might as well In my opinion say who are the most likely characters in danger to me.

The three Mii Fighters & Cloud.

The Mii Fighters. While it was intended to be a create your own fighter like few of the other fighting games, it didn't work quite as well in Smash as it does in the other fighting games. You can't even use them online. Although I'm not buying a Switch yet(still expensive where I live), but from what I heard the miis presence is overall much more downplayed in the Switch era compared to the wii era, with Mario Kart 8 Deluxe a Wii U port having the most involvement of miis so far.

Now Cloud. He's a fun character to play as but being 3rd party already makes him in danger like the other 3rd party characters. However Cloud is in more danger simply because of the lack of content Final Fantasy has in Smash. Only 2 tracks, only trophies are Cloud. Seems like Square Enix was pretty stingy in terms of copyright.

Of course the game got a announced a few weeks ago so it's too early to say. But those 4 are from my observations right now. Since we don't know what kind of sequel the Switch game will be(ground up or Splatoon 2/Xillia2 type sequel).

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

That's looking at the series from a very narrow perspective, being honest here. Especially considering the sales of AC triumph FE global sales by three times:

To say there are not any remaining viable AC fighters is not considering that Villager was made into a fighter for SSB4, despite the character not generally being combat appropriate, applying the gameplay aspects of AC into the moveset. While characters like Tom Nook nor Isabelle might seem like they don't have potential because of Villager 'representing the entire series gameplay', they still have their personalities, large fanbases, AND moveset potential (When you base and imagine their movesets based on their characterization in the games ((merchant and mayor for example))) to warrant their playability in Smash.

I'll eat my sister if we get six Animal Crossing reps in this game

 

[Retroend]

There's 2 ports on the outside of the dock and one on the inside. You technically only need to plug in one of the adapter cables for the gc adapter to work, so I'd assume you could even plug in three if you wanted

gah im blind. thanks.

 

[Starcutter]

So, I made color alts for another character. This time, it's one of my choices, Rick.

Most of them are based off other animal buddies, the pink one is based off Pick (Rick'd Girlfriend) and the 7th one is based off a hamster I had as a kid. Obligatory Gameboy Kirby character color as well.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

While on the subject of alts here are some old Duck Hunt ones I made awhile back.

 

[New_Dumal]

I don't like that Isabelle is now the most commom character to promote Animal Crossing.Yes, I know that she's a Assist Trophy and is on Mario Kart 8. But I think Tom Nook would be much better as a Smash playable character.
Would be easy to give Villager another Final Smash,as dropping a lot of "leafs" and they transform into random furniture.

 

[Alice Margatroid]

Everyone talking about character cuts while I'm still salty they cut certain music tracks despite having the same stages from brawl>Sm4sh.

Like..why?

 

[Starcutter]

Everyone talking about character cuts while I'm still salty they cut certain music tracks despite having the same stages from brawl>Sm4sh.

Like..why?

I think if it had vocals they would have to do licensing things, those are expensive.

Otherwise, I don't know lol

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Just went out for Mexican dinner with a friend, and we talked about gaming and what not.

We decided that if Sephiroth ever ended up in Smash, One Winged Angel would have to be in, and his final smash would absolutely have to be his painstakingly long, minute and a half attack from Final Fantasy VII. Most troll pick ever

 

[SmashChu]

That face when the username checks out.

In all seriousness, I am basically in the same boat. The new IP stuff is fine, but going beyond that is a bit too niche or obscure for me as a "casual" Nintendo fan to get on board with. The only Nintendo character that I feel is missing, beyond the obvious, is Black Shadow. But we are probably never going to revisit F-Zero.

>Black Shadow

Really, thats your pick for an all-star? I would say there are bigger characters in his own game.

Usually, when people say there aren't any Nintendo characters, its that they set the bar overly high or don't have the creativity to think about some. Here is some areas they can still draw from.

• Mario in General as ever character in this series is better known that a lot of video game series
• Zelda has too few characters, especially now that BoTW was a success and the game had a host of characters that even got amiibo
• Star Fox is well known by the main stream, so you could add Slippy and Peppy down the road (Slippy could work now if based off StarFox Guard)
• Interestingly, Kirby is possible, mostly as Japanese fans feel this series is underrepresented (similar to Zelda over here)
• Pokemon
• Isabelle - one of the biggest characters not in Smash.

And I'm saying top-tier characters, nit just who they can pick. I think this list is a good example of what the average player will be familiar with. So there is a lot of areas they can draw from. Additionally, people would argue that Inklings would be All-stars now, so new characters will always draw interest even as the pool of older characters shrinks

 

[Pacack]

In regards to Alph as a clone, there's always the possibility of flying Pikmin being added outside of just the up-b.

I like the idea of Olimar having Red, Blue, and Yellow and Alph having White, Purple, Rock, and Flying. Maybe also give Olimar Bulbmin.

Purple Pikmin could be made to have a shaking effect (maybe causing a trip) and Rock Pikmin could break shields. Flying Pikmin could go directly horizontal instead of having an arch.

With those three changes, Alph could easily be the trickier version of Olimar.

 

[Deleted member]

Thought I would post this here.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I doubt Sakurai would go this direction with a Rhythm Heaven character, but it's still cool nonetheless.

I love Kevin's work. Definitely follow him on Twitter if you get the chance.

To call any recurring Nintendo character "scraping the bottom of the barrel" is bogus in all honesty.

We're far from running out of options.

Exactly. Smash is not running out of characters, fans are just unimaginative. Having an erroneous assumption doesn't make it true.

We did the same thing during pre-Smash 4, asking who was left and asumed that there's a small pool of characters that would have a shot and that Sakurai would never pick outside the box. I mean after all, he would totally include the expected Ridley, third Dee-Kay "rep" (god I hate this word, thanks speculah), Chrom, and 5th gen Pokémon, mostly Zoroark. Guess what? We got none of them and instead saw Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, Robin, Duck Hunt, etc. All of which are solid choices that merits their spot. These are characters that most of us ruled out when we saw they didn't fit fictional criteria we made up based on fan-made patterns (remember when people thought there was a pattern that meant Krystal was in Smash 4?) and they all got in. Of the eighteen additions, only six were commonly predicted those being Little Mac, Mega Man, Palutena, Shulk, Pac-Man, and Bowser Jr. But the rest were seen as unlikely additions, most of which were reveiled or not talked about prior to their confirmation. Then came DLC which except for Mewtwo and arguably Lucas, wre sen as less than likely. We saw characters like Wolf, King K. Rool or Dixie Kong and Captain Toad as inevitable because of fan demand or "muh recency" and got three third-parties and one of the rare examples of pure advertisement in Corrin.

In speculation, we make the assumption that they are unlikely or impossible becuase they don't fit our expectation of what is the proper Smash character. We rule out characters lke Daisy, Pauline, Dillon, and Tails because they don't fit conventional wisdom but who is to say that Sakurai won't find one, two, three, or even all four of being worthy inclusions? I may not think they are getting in but unless there's a reason to believe that future installments won't allow the opportunity for a character to be reconsidered, like possibly characters without a future, one would be a fool to totally rule out someone base on past events. New game appearance allow for new opportunites to get in (and not just because it's a new showing).

Just because the traditional big-name characters like Inklings, King K. Rool, and Ridley are dwindling doesn't mean that the franchise is fixing to run out of steam. To do so implies that Sakurai is so unimaginative that he is getting desperate to include the last "worthy" characters before the impending Smashpocalypse, which is not true. Not to mention the Switch is an incredibly successful console that looks to be a renaissance for Nintendo and that means new opportunities for franchises to become just as beloved as our Mario, Zelda, and Metroid. Arms alone offers several potential playable characters, one that I would hope Sakurai or a new director takes advantage of in future installments. Maybe they won't be in the base game but they would be fools not to make Spring Man at least DLC.

The past game, and even more strongly this game, the speculation fan base have been paranoid about the impending Smashpocalypse when we reach the limit of the character roster and that even if Smash sells like gangbusters on consoles that moves like molases, that it's totally going to die this game. This of course ignore that if it were to perish, there would be serious internal problems within Nintendo.

When a farmer has planted a beautiful oak tree, he places the new seed elsewhere.

It's hard to predict the amount of newcomers when we don't really know the true nature of the game, like how much of it is derived from Smash 4? I don't mean as in it's a port, because it's pretty obvious by now that it isn't, but that doesn't mean it isn't borrowing more stuff from its predecessor than any past installment has done before. If it does borrow a lot of stuff then that's uncharted territory for us, not only in regards to predicting the amount of newcomers (and new content in general), but also as far as cuts go. If no or very few cuts are made do we really expect the roster to near the 70s? It seems like a bit of a crazy number, and it'd be very difficult to balance.

My guess would be ~10 newcomers, clones excluded, but that's purely a gut feeling. I think an ARMS character and Decidueye are very likely, and we're probably getting another 3rd party character too, but beyond that it's hard to say.

As for your second question, absolutely. I think this game is coming out at a fantastic point in the Switch's lifespan, it really can take full advantage of future releases to keep the console's incredibly strong momentum going. I'm expecting it to get continuous DLC for longer than Smash 4 did, although characters might not come out at as fast a pace seeing that a lot of Smash 4's early DLC were veterans and semi-clones, and we've kind of run out of those.

Interesting point there. I want to ask for those more into fighting games than I am, how often do pieces of DLC come out in intervals be it both free and paid?

Given that Geno of all characters was a third-party character who was not just considered but wanted by Sakurai, star-power doesn't really matter that much for third-parties and the assumption that a third-party has to be iconic to make it in doesn't work anymore.

Except that he didn't make it. Until Geno actually gets in, in no ways should this be used as an argument that Shovel Knight and Shantae are shoe-ins because of a bunch of fans screamed for them on the Ballot.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

How do you all feel about Tethu from Ever Oasis making it into the roster? I haven't played it, but I've heard good things about it. Plus I like his design.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

In regards to Alph as a clone, there's always the possibility of flying Pikmin being added outside of just the up-b.

I like the idea of Olimar having Red, Blue, and Yellow and Alph having White, Purple, Rock, and Flying. Maybe also give Olimar Bulbmin.

Purple Pikmin could be made to have a shaking effect (maybe causing a trip) and Rock Pikmin could break shields. Flying Pikmin could go directly horizontal instead of having an arch.

With those three changes, Alph could easily be the trickier version of Olimar.

I can see Alph being a clone in this game just because it was the original plan and so many people want it that way.

The logical thing to do would to give Olimar Red, Yellow, Blue, Purple, & White. And give Alph Red, Yellow, Blue, Rock, & Winged. And then both of them have the jet pack from "Hey! Pikmin" as a recovery.

Alph could be slightly shorter and faster and the Winged Pikmin can perform Kirby's Up throw.

 

[Hinata]

If they bring back 8-player Smash, and have DLC again, they better give us at least 8 DLC characters this time.

It bothers me so much that the Wii U version could support 8 players, but we only had 7 DLC characters.

 

[Starcutter]

Everyone talking about character cuts while I'm still salty they cut certain music tracks despite having the same stages from brawl>Sm4sh.

Like..why?

I just remembered they cut Checker Knights from the Halberd stage.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

So, I made color alts for another character. This time, it's one of my choices, Rick.

Most of them are based off other animal buddies, the pink one is based off Pick (Rick'd Girlfriend) and the 7th one is based off a hamster I had as a kid. Obligatory Gameboy Kirby character color as well.

Why not all the animal friends together as one fighter? As a matter of fact, that could very well actually be a newcomer in the next game.

 

[Starcutter]

Why not all the animal friends together as one fighter? As a matter of fact, that could very well actually be a newcomer in the next game.

Do you know how much work it would take to make 8 recolors for 3 characters?

Answer: a long time

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Do you know how much work it would take to make 8 recolors for 3 characters?

Answer: a long time

Oh. I didn't mean why don't you make it. I was just sayin is all.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

With all these alternate colors, it would be an excellent time to post a link to the Palette contest but that would be against advertising rules :3

I’ll post one of the color swaps I made soon. I’m currently making 16 color swaps for each character.

 

[Arcadenik]

If not Ridley why not Motherbrain?

Mother Brain would be a lot more unique than Ridley.

We already have a dragon. We don’t have a brain in a jar.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

This Tom Nook Vs Isabelle fight is silly.

How about both?

Animal Crossing deserves 3 reps more than Fire Emblem deserves to have almost the same amount of characters present as Mario and Pokemon.

Do you know how many people unironically play Animal Crossing as a gamers that I would have never ever ever suspected? The answer is tons.

I'm talking big burly muscle dudes who go hard on FPS and Madden sitting down with a 3DS. People have this notion that AC is just for female gamers, but lol no.

 

[Ghirahilda]

With all these alternate colors, it would be an excellent time to post a link to the Palette contest but that would be against advertising rules :3

I’ll post one of the color swaps I made soon. I’m currently making 16 color swaps for each character.

OMD I'm so excited to see them! I really love seeing those things!

 

[TheLastJinjo]

This Tom Nook Vs Isabelle fight is silly.

How about both?

That's not much less silly.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

That's not much less silly.

They're just as important to AC. And rep things Villager simply can not.

Again Animal Crossing is mega-watt. That **** is HUGE. 3 reps is far far far from pushing it.

 

[Starcutter]

With all these alternate colors, it would be an excellent time to post a link to the Palette contest but that would be against advertising rules :3

Oh, you mean the contest where they are currently accepting Mario recolors in 300x300 PNG format? The one that ends submissions for Mario colors on April 3rd? You are indeed talking about the one that already has 5 different submissions, correct?

Yeah, it's a shame we can't advertise it, it's a lot of fun.