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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Cutie Gwen

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When ya got Battlefield V letting you play as a black female nazi, and most games nowadays have character customization (some even removing the option to be white in said customization like Mass Effect MY face is tired). When the biggest AAA Game coming out is The Last of Us 2. Which madea HUGE deal about its protag being lesbian.. And all of that still isn't enough? How about people just make the games they wanna make, and people buy the games they wanna play.. No?
The goal of diversity is not having primarily white people with a few non white people sprinkled around. Also Ellie was a lesbian since TLOU 1, I don't even like that franchise but even I know this. You're also implying like there's supposed to be a limit to non white people. I'm trying to give you the benefit of doubt here and assume you just dead ass typed it stupidly without knowingnthe implications but I'm struggling to do so the more you type terribad responses
 
D

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I may be biased here, but...

How does something not 'feel right?'

This is a game where Metal Gear's Snake can fight with an anime dragon-waifu hybrid and a singing pink ball against a literal potted plant. I think we're past things being out of place.

Besides, K.Rool's shown that Sakurai isn't a total xenophobe and will put in Western characters, and make them incredibly true to form. The Mayles brothers didn't even know it was coming.

I'm sorry, I just never understood the "Sakurai will never put in Western characters because he's super racist!" argument. He just hasn't yet; doesn't mean he won't.
And we already have western characters (Dark Samus, Diddy Kong and K.Rool).

Also, Shovel Knight.
 

Condenir

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Look at the bottom movie, it seems like a new cutscene with Link and Zelda in some sort of...dark zone?
Omg I was a firm believer in no more cutscenes...I need to HYPE responsibly because this is like making me FREAK
 

KingofKoopas

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The goal of diversity is not having primarily white people with a few non white people sprinkled around. Also Ellie was a lesbian since TLOU 1, I don't even like that franchise but even I know this. You're also implying like there's supposed to be a limit to non white people. I'm trying to give you the benefit of doubt here and assume you just dead *** typed it stupidly without knowingnthe implications but I'm struggling to do so the more you type terribad responses
And I'm trying to tell you that having characters for the sake of their race is tokenization.. Which if they added characters in for the sake of race you'd still be complaining and it would be because its tokenziation. Instead of telling creators what they should create, just buy the games you want to buy..
 

Kuon

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I may be biased here, but...

How does something not 'feel right?'

This is a game where Metal Gear's Snake can fight with an anime dragon-waifu hybrid and a singing pink ball against a literal potted plant. I think we're past things being out of place.

Besides, K.Rool's shown that Sakurai isn't a total xenophobe and will put in Western characters, and make them incredibly true to form. The Mayles brothers didn't even know it was coming.

I'm sorry, I just never understood the "Sakurai will never put in Western characters because he's super racist!" argument. He just hasn't yet; doesn't mean he won't.
I never said he was racist. I don't think he's racist. But we don't have any 3rd party IPs that have western playable characters, and I think Minecraft will be the first and only one.
 

Deathcarter

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There's a theory that dlc was decided back in 2015. At least that's kind of what it sounded like Sakurai said and why we may get Elma over Rex.
Elma's 1st Party though. He's not obligated to keep her on the project plan like he is with 3rd parties assuming he hasn't lied and actually started work on all the DLC characters already. That's why I feel as though we're not getting 1st Party DLC at all unless its an Octoling who's a bigger name than Rex or a promotional character for Pokémon Gen 8/FE Three Houses.
 

theromfather

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Why does every single thing out now have to be criticized due to an apparent lack of diversity? Diversity has its place but it doesn’t need to be forced into every single art medium imaginable. If it’s done by will of the creator then cool. But if not then that should be cool too. It’s bad enough we got Apu from The Simpsons being axed (a show about stereotypes of all types). Let’s stop trying to sway content creators to change their vision to make every single type of person feel accommodated for the sake of making them feeling accommodated. Besides, the game is diverse beyond skin tone, we got male and female characters ranging from plumbers, dinosaurs, to aliens Pokemon and frickin awesome plants.
 
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WaxPython

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You're also implying like there's supposed to be a limit to non white people.
If there's no limit and you remove all white people then that's not really being diverse now is it?

Would you still have a problem with that? Maybe not...

Japan are a foreign developer and we should be happy they make such great games for us to enjoy we have no business telling a foreign culture how they should be doing things.
 
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KirbyWorshipper2465

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Look at the bottom movie, it seems like a new cutscene with Link and Zelda in some sort of...dark zone?
Well then, looks like there could be a few interactions after all.

And we already have western characters (Dark Samus, Diddy Kong and K.Rool).

Also, Shovel Knight.
Plus the most speculated character right now (Steve) is from Denmark, so...
 

khfan93

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Dang it peoppe, can't we just hype over the gameplay footage coming out from the events? Forget the grinch leak, it's these arguments that are the Smash fanbase at its worst.
There's no argument here? We're just having a civil discussion. The idea that everyone needs to say the same thing or else we are "arguing" and that it's bad to do that is flawed.

Who are we to tell Japan what to do? They should have the freedom to make characters the way they want to it's a completely different culture to our own
No one is telling anyone what to do. I'm just making an argument that diversity is important in video games and therefore it would be better if Nintendo games were more diverse. Obviously Nintendo being a Japanese company means the games are made in a different culture, but they still are selling them in other cultures, so it's not as if they are immune to criticism. And I'm not saying criticism in the sense of "Nintendo bad," I'm saying that there are trends that have been noticed and I think that it would be better if they went against those trends.

And as others and myself have already pointed out, they already have started going against those trends. But it is still a thing where video games, in general, are not a very diverse medium, and could always stand to be more diverse.

I'm not saying anyone should not buy a game because it doesn't have a black character or an LGBT character or whatever. I'm not saying that people shouldn't make games about white men. I am just saying that diverse playable characters in games is a good thing and pointing out that games don't have as much diversity as they could is also a good thing.
 

Kuon

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And we already have western characters (Dark Samus, Diddy Kong and K.Rool).

Also, Shovel Knight.
I'm not talking about those characters. I'm talking about the potential characters that are from Western IPs. We have no playable Western series/IP characters (Skyrim, Doom, Minecraft) and I think Minecraft makes a lot more sense than Skyrim
 
D

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I'm not talking about those characters. I'm talking about the potential characters that are from Western IPs. We have no playable Western series/IP characters (Skyrim, Doom, Minecraft) and I think Minecraft makes a lot more sense than Skyrim
I can see Crash and Steve getting in (the first could happen later).
 

Ramen Tengoku

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I'm not talking about those characters. I'm talking about the potential characters that are from Western IPs. We have no playable Western series/IP characters (Skyrim, Doom, Minecraft) and I think Minecraft makes a lot more sense than Skyrim
I'm gonna agree with you there...
Minecraft is probably the biggest western third party game in Japan...
Steve just makes sense...
 

Will

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Diversity is important to video games, I can agree on that. Video games, however, take a long time to develop.
What you want isn't going to happen on an instant if they follow what people supposedly want.
 

khfan93

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If there's no limit and you remove all white people then that's not really being diverse now is it?

Would you still have a problem with that? Maybe not...

Japan are a foreign developer and we should be happy they make such great games for us to enjoy we have no business telling a foreign culture how they should be doing things.
No one here said anything about "removing all white people" from games.
 

Thinkaman

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I would suggest keeping this topic about Smash. If I were modding this particular topic, I'd have given out off-topic infractions for half of the last page.

If you are in the US, I would suggest putting all this politically-oriented energy towards voting in the major election that happens to occur in 3 days.

But this particular forum topic will not be discussing this further. Trust me, there is an entire internet out there that would love to argue with you about it--though I personally suggest you don't.
 

Kuon

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I can see Crash and Steve getting in (the first could happen later).
I think Crash is possible because of his 90s rivalry with Nintendo, and Minecraft makes too much sense not to happen, but I'm not gonna say that Crash has a very good chance, just that he has a chance
 

Flyboy

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I'm not talking about those characters. I'm talking about the potential characters that are from Western IPs. We have no playable Western series/IP characters (Skyrim, Doom, Minecraft) and I think Minecraft makes a lot more sense than Skyrim
This is a valid argument. I can't say I disagree, with the only caveat being the idea that Minecraft would make a cooler stage than character, but I also think that the player avatar would be fun, so yknow.

I just like seeing new characters in Smash!
 
D

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I'm gonna agree with you there...
Minecraft is probably the biggest western third party game in Japan...
Steve just makes sense...
Something funny is that before Spider-Man PS4, the best-selling western game in Japan was Crash Warped for PS1.
It took a Marvel game in 2018 to put Crash off that title.

The character is also a currently popular pick for the DLC reps in Japan, alongside Banjo and Sora.

Crash would also bring a lot of sales, maybe not as much as Steve, but still an important load of benefits.
 

Kuon

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I'm gonna agree with you there...
Minecraft is probably the biggest western third party game in Japan...
Steve just makes sense...
That he does. He makes so much sense, and we should all trust Vergeben. I don't want Minecraft either, but I think it's happening at this point
 

WaxPython

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There's no argument here? We're just having a civil discussion. The idea that everyone needs to say the same thing or else we are "arguing" and that it's bad to do that is flawed
Yeah I agree with this point. People are free to disagree and have civil discussions if everyone agrees a discussion forum would be a pretty bland place.

Many including myself are perhaps reluctant to talk about political issues in Nintendo games because we get enough about that in the media in the real world.

Don't think it is fair to crisisise another culture for the way they do things. That's just my opinion, game play is one thing but cultural differences well we aren't being forced to buy their game if we disagree on a personal level
 

Kuon

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This is a valid argument. I can't say I disagree, with the only caveat being the idea that Minecraft would make a cooler stage than character, but I also think that the player avatar would be fun, so yknow.

I just like seeing new characters in Smash!
Exactly. It would make more sense as a stage than a character, but a character makes sense too. Steve isn't too weird of a character when we have the likes of Piranha Plant and Mr. Game and Watch. Also, Mr. Game and Watch's movements are just as stiff as Steve's, so it's entirely possible. Of course, I don't want him in the game, but I accept the fact that it'll probably happen
 

Ramen Tengoku

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Something funny is that before Spider-Man PS4, the best-selling western game in Japan was Crash Warped for PS1.
It took a Marvel game in 2018 to put Crash off that title.

The character is also a currently popular pick for the DLC reps in Japan, alongside Banjo and Sora.

Crash would also bring a lot of sales, maybe not as much as Steve, but still an important load of benefits.
I think crash is a bit late for DLC...
The DLC seems to already have been planned, and with Rex not happening, I'm starting to doubt Crash's inclusion too.
 

BluePikmin11

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Me today: I want to write an immensely in-depth critique expressing my personal likes and numerous disappointments I had with the final Smash Ultimate Direct, from the perspective of a hardcore Smash Bros speculator. But, it is very difficult for me, as I am currently in a writer's block. The large number of disappointments I had from the Smash Direct is weighing down my motivation to write a proper critique. This is something that I feel will be interesting to write about/share, but I fear the backlash that will come from just sharing my honest opinion.
 

TMNTSSB4

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I mean, it might be just for the reveal trailers...
OR...there’s still story mode cutscenes (even if they’re not as long as the ones from SSE or Kid Icarus and are used sparingly like Fire Emblem games)
 

Slavic

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The shock of Piranha Plant has warped my reality of the possible. I wouldn't say I support a playable Steve, but I'm somehow at a point in my life where I'm not against him at all. There's really only one character I want in the game anymore (who has any shot at all, sorry KOS) and that's Elma, and the signs tentatively point in her direction for DLC without really anything against her so bring anyone else on board, it's a party now
 

Iridium

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One thing I've noticed from Ultimate gameplay in general is how fast the loading screen is. Seems like about a little less than 2 seconds, if I'm looking at it right.
 
D

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I think crash is a bit late for DLC...
The DLC seems to already have been planned, and with Rex not happening, I'm starting to doubt Crash's inclusion too.
I can understand your position.

But something that i learned supporting K.Rool, was to never give up, and keep trying.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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That he does. He makes so much sense, and we should all trust Vergeben. I don't want Minecraft either, but I think it's happening at this point
A necessary weasel, one would say. As much as people want Master Chief as THE first TP Western character from Microsoft, even he wouldn't get to be in before Steve.

That being said, I saw a kid show up interest in a big figure of Alex at EB Games yesterday, so I wonder if she could be in as an alt.
 
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