Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Kuon]

Man, I'll say. There's been some odd fan rosters posted on here before.

Yeah, and I'm sorry to some of the people who didn't get the characters they wanted or expected, but some of these characters people wanted just clearly had no chance at all

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I see, I didn't know that- Here in france it's just the short of japanese for I didn't though about it-
Sorry if I ever offended anyone

I don't think anyone took offense to it. It's even okay you didn't know this. It's definitely a dated slur that doesn't get tossed around much anymore and is particularly contained to one generation of people it would seem.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Showing your true colors I see. They're just talking about how ridiculous some people can be with their complaints.

I mean when the complaint is a lack of dark skin characters and people are dismissing it because "far left politics" when Animal Crossing fans were pushing for this for a while as the only way you could be black was to get a tan for SO long, you're coming across as needlessly aggressive

My Opinion: It is indeed a problem that should get addressed more ideally but not really Sakurai's fault cause of Japan's homogenous society. The fact Inklings and Villager are being addressed is very good

 

[Deleted member]

After seeing these posts about people's feelings on the direct, I think it was overall great. I have basically no complaints about it at all. A lot of the stuff they put in the game is stuff I've been dreaming of for years

I liked it too besides the Audrey II thing.

The new theme is fantastic.

 

[Aurane]

This thread is not being very piranhatastic.

 

[Deleted member]

This thread is not being very piranhatastic.

I didn’t like the character, tbh.

But i liked the rest of the Direct.

 

[NextChannelGames]

Characters I know who are dark/brown skin color that would be cool to see in Smash Bros.

- Tetra (Zelda: Wind Waker)
- Octling (Splatoon 2)
- Elma (Xenoblade X)
- Tom Nook (Animal Crossing)
- Doc Lowis (Punch Out)
- Off The Hook (Splatoon 2)
- Umbreon (Pokemon)
- Twin Nova (Arms)
- Goron (Zelda)

There’s still good characters too choose from, I think Tetra was in the files in Brawl right?

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

This thread is not being very piranhatastic.

you're not very piranhatastic

 

[Deleted member]

Characters I know who are dark/brown skin color that would be cool to see in Smash Bros.

- Tetra (Zelda: Wind Waker)
- Octling (Splatoon 2)
- Elma (Xenoblade X)
- Tom Nook (Animal Crossing)
- Doc Lowis (Punch Out)
- Off The Hook (Splatoon 2)
- Umbreon (Pokemon)
- Twin Nova (Arms)
- Goron (Zelda)

There’s still good characters too choose from, I think Tetra was in the files in Brawl right?

Never noticed that Tetra had dark skin.

 

[KingofKoopas]

I mean when the complaint is a lack of dark skin characters and people are dismissing it because "far left politics" when Animal Crossing fans were pushing for this for a while as the only way you could be black was to get a tan for SO long, you're coming across as needlessly aggressive

My Opinion: It is indeed a problem that should get addressed more ideally but not really Sakurai's fault cause of Japan's homogenous society. The fact Inklings and Villager are being addressed is very good

A large percent of the Roster is Visably Non-Human...

 

[Thinkaman]

Related to echo production: This (my previous post) is why Isabelle is not an echo. The entire point of echoes is to recycle programming, animation, and QA work. Isabelle has a full set of animations made from scratch, and several moves that require significant unique programming. (Particularly the Fishing Rod)

I'm sure it's valuable that they could reuse programming + QA for some moves, like her projectile normals, Pocket, Final Smash, and most of the code of her up-b. (Of course, lots of characters share code for various moves and specials, even characters who superficially have nothing to do with each other.) But the full amount of labor still had to be done to give Isabelle all unique movements for her signature personality.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Characters I know who are dark/brown skin color that would be cool to see in Smash Bros.

- Tetra (Zelda: Wind Waker)
- Octling (Splatoon 2)
- Elma (Xenoblade X)
- Tom Nook (Animal Crossing)
- Doc Lowis (Punch Out)
- Off The Hook (Splatoon 2)
- Umbreon (Pokemon)
- Twin Nova (Arms)
- Goron (Zelda)

There’s still good characters too choose from, I think Tetra was in the files in Brawl right?

See, Tetra's skin gets paler when she turns into Zelda

A large percent of the Roster is Visably Non-Human...

Congratulations you're ignoring the fact that it's addressed to the humanoid characters and that it's a criticism the video game industry has and not just Smash

 

[Flyboy]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I am not aware of anyone saying that she should be in because of her skin tone. But it would be a good thing representation-wise.

That's the thing.

I'm not saying "hey put these characters in because of diversity", I'm saying "I personally love these characters and want them in Smash, and the added benefit of diversity comes with".

There's a difference. Broadly speaking, representation matters, whether it does to you personally or not. I have the Smash Switch bundle, I'm getting the Fighters Pass, whether Elma is confirmed or not is not a huge deal to me even though she is my most-wanted plausible next to Phoenix Wright. But to have a cool character who is the most important character of a major Nintendo Wii U release who also is solid rep is only a good thing.

To use a non-Elma example, I'd be super happy if they made Doc Louis playable in a future game because he could be a trickier, heavier Little Mac, he's hilarious in the Wii Punch Out, and he's a fun recognizable character. It's also cool that he's a black man and all those factors combined would help him stand out and be a fun rep of a series I love.

It's really not that hard. I'm not gonna boycott a game over it, and I seriously doubt anyone is ACTUALLY doing that, people just like to stir ****. But does that mean the conversation is meaningless? No.

 

[Deleted member]

Related to echo production: This is why Isabelle is not an echo. The entire point of echoes is to recycle programming, animation, and QA work. Isabelle has a full set of animations made from scratch, and several moves that require significant unique programming. (Particularly the Fishing Rod)

I'm sure it's valuable that they could reuse programming + QA for some moves, like her projectile normals, Pocket, Final Smash, and most of the code of her up-b. (Of course, lots of characters share code for various moves and specials, even characters who superficially have nothing to do with each other.) But the full amount of labor still had to be done to give Isabelle all unique movements for her signature personality.

I find it this way too.

 

[KingofKoopas]

See, Tetra's skin gets paler when she turns into Zelda

Congratulations you're ignoring the fact that it's addressed to the humanoid characters and that it's a criticism the video game industry has and not just Smash

And youre ignoring the fact that it doesnt even matter! Does a Yoshi Fan gotta be a green ****ing dinosaur to play as Yoshi?

 

[Aurane]

Does a Yoshi Fan gotta be a green ****ing dinosaur to play as Yoshi?

Zinith true or nah?

 

[fogbadge]

Nope. No word on it. Probably via world of light or just hitting certain milestones.

hmm hopes it not to long before we find out

 

[Flyboy]

Related to echo production: This (my previous post) is why Isabelle is not an echo. The entire point of echoes is to recycle programming, animation, and QA work. Isabelle has a full set of animations made from scratch, and several moves that require significant unique programming. (Particularly the Fishing Rod)

I'm sure it's valuable that they could reuse programming + QA for some moves, like her projectile normals, Pocket, Final Smash, and most of the code of her up-b. (Of course, lots of characters share code for various moves and specials, even characters who superficially have nothing to do with each other.) But the full amount of labor still had to be done to give Isabelle all unique movements for her signature personality.

It makes me think of the Sm4sh DLC being somewhat based on existing characters.

I don't know if anyone here has played Fire Pro Wrestling World, but making custom wrestlers in that game is basically a programming experience in and of itself as you have to customize the entire moveset pool, the offensive and defensive stats, and then meticulously stat out the AI of a character, and THEN your cool-looking guy will actually fight how you want. Often times it's easier to just copy a downloaded or in-game guy, change the big moves, tweak a few numbers, and be satisfied.

Echoes are like doing the latter. That's how I understand it at least, yeah?

 

[Deleted member]

See, Tetra's skin gets paler when she turns into Zelda

Congratulations you're ignoring the fact that it's addressed to the humanoid characters and that it's a criticism the video game industry has and not just Smash

The thing with Tetra is that she doesn’t have to transform into Zelda in Smash, since Sheik already works as a separate character,

 

[Cutie Gwen]

And youre ignoring the fact that it doesnt even matter! Does a Yoshi Fan gotta be a green ****ing dinosaur to play as Yoshi?

So the fact that it's a problem for the ENTIRE VIDEO GAME INDUSTRY doesn't matter? You need to remember Smash isn't being singled out here

 

[Slavic]

before I even type up anything I just want to say merit schmerit, we've got Piranha Plant so intense justification of character choices should probably be toned down a little bit.

Anyways, here or anywhere the number of posts of people saying "x character should get in because they're x characteristic" is outweighed by the number of people saying that "x character should get in based on merit" 10:1 as an extremely conservative number (I'd say 100:1 just on impulse). It's an argument that simply isn't presented frequently but everyone likes to argue against, which makes for a weirdly heated conversation. People can like a character for their race or gender or sexuality, it can be a big part of the character, and can be part of why a character is picked for something. That's all fine. There's just a societal urge to strawman this for reasons that I'm not sure because my expertise is bugs not brains.

Also criticizing people for wanting to play as a character similar in some way to them is pretty rude, regardless of if it matters to you or not

but again merit and representation are both meaningless under our new plant overlords

 

[Will]

Are we still arguing about that resetera stuff?

Dude, I thought we unanimously agreed on the topic like 4 hours ago, why are people still on it?

 

[WaxPython]

Did someone just take a dump on Tetra as a character just because she's a disguise of Zelda?

Well then I trust they are in favour off removing Sheik then according to their logic?

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

This post ain't cool enough... delete

 

[WaxPython]

Are we still arguing about that resetera stuff?

View attachment 175331

Dude, I thought we unanimously agreed on the topic like 4 hours ago, why are people still on it?

Because some people disagree and feel the boycotters are justified

 

[Iridium]

I mean, in a Japanese game, you would expect to see characters made from Japan. If their general skin tone is light, then when a game is made, expect to see that often. This definitely applies to other regions too, but this is ridiculous.

To think that we would complain about diversity in a franchise that already is diverse in more ways that just characters. We have playable characters, ATs, music, Spirits and even background/support characters who/which can be unique when it comes to race or anything of the sort.

There's reasons why I don't like diversity talk when it comes to Smash, and that's because it already is diverse to me. Playable characters isn't all Smash has to offer, so don't just look at that.

 

[khfan93]

And youre ignoring the fact that it doesnt even matter! Does a Yoshi Fan gotta be a green ****ing dinosaur to play as Yoshi?

The discussion is not whether or not you need to have x characteristic to play as a character with x characteristic. I'm a dude but any opportunity I get I choose a female player character.

The argument some of us are making here is that games should be more diverse and Nintendo games should be more diverse because diversity and representation is a good thing. That's all.

 

[Aurane]

We need more SSBU Piranha Plant fanart. All I got is a couple goods pics, like this out of context flame symbol thing.

 

[monadoboyy]

Mobile game which Nintendo didn’t even dip into until last year,

FEH is from February last year, which means it was planned since at least 2016. Dragalia is two months old tops, but the relationship between Cygames and Nintendo probably is a bit older than that

Still not confident Kat's in and I won't really be upset if she or 'x' character doesn't get in, but she'd be a pleasant surprise for me

 

[Deleted member]

We need more SSBU Piranha Plant fanart. All I got is a couple goods pics, like this out of context flame symbol thing.

No.

We need more Audrey II montages with him.

 

[JacobLeBeauOFFICIAL]

I just realized something...spirits technically makes Sonic have red eyes...sonic.exe also has red eyes...GUYS??

 

[KingofKoopas]

So the fact that it's a problem for the ENTIRE VIDEO GAME INDUSTRY doesn't matter? You need to remember Smash isn't being singled out here

When ya got Battlefield V letting you play as a black female nazi, and most games nowadays have character customization (some even removing the option to be white in said customization like Mass Effect MY face is tired). When the biggest AAA Game coming out is The Last of Us 2. Which madea HUGE deal about its protag being lesbian.. And all of that still isn't enough? How about people just make the games they wanna make, and people buy the games they wanna play.. No?

 

[Deleted member]

I just realized something...spirits technically makes Sonic have red eyes...sonic.exe also has red eyes...GUYS??

Prepare for Hyper-realistic blood.

 

[Thinkaman]

It makes me think of the Sm4sh DLC being somewhat based on existing characters.

The Smash 4 newcomer DLCs were super original and detailed, surely the most complex characters in the game.

This is how long it took to explain them (not including stage, music, amiibo or anything else--just gameplay) in their respective Directs:

• Ryu - 3:15
• Corrin - 3:30
• Cloud - 4:00
• Bayo - 6:30

All those numbers dwarf other newcomers, including the DLC returning characters. The closest are Little Mac, and Rosalina who took 2:30 and 1:45 respectively.

 

[JacobLeBeauOFFICIAL]

Prepare for Hyper-realistic blood.

SOMEONE MOD THIS IN WHEN IT RELEASES

 

[Amiibo Doctor]

Dang it peoppe, can't we just hype over the gameplay footage coming out from the events? Forget the grinch leak, it's these arguments that are the Smash fanbase at its worst.

 

[Flyboy]

The Smash 4 newcomer DLCs were super original and detailed, surely the most complex characters in the game.

This is how long it took to explain them (not including stage, music, amiibo or anything else--just gameplay) in their respective Directs:

• Ryu - 3:15
• Corrin - 3:30
• Cloud - 4:00
• Bayo - 6:30

All those numbers dwarf other newcomers, including the DLC returning characters. The closest are Little Mac, and Rosalina who took 2:30 and 1:45 respectively.

Right, I didn't mean to imply they were low-effort at all, just that you have to start somewhere and (forgive me, I'm not THAT up on my Smash knowledge) from what I understand those characters used some barebones basics as a starting ground, thus making at least the earliest stages slightly simpler than fully making someone from scratch.

Like, I'm probably wrong here because I'm a casual, just trying to understand it all.

 

[khfan93]

Because some people disagree and feel the boycotters are justified

That's a misrepresentation of the ongoing discussion. We are just discussing the importance of diversity and representation in video games. No one in this thread is advocating for boycotting or saying those advocating for boycotting or right, it's just that the discussion was spurred by the mention thereof.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Dovahkiin wouldn't happen. I don't think Sakurai would want Skyrim in Smash. It just doesn't feel right.

I may be biased here, but...

How does something not 'feel right?'

This is a game where Metal Gear's Snake can fight with an anime dragon-waifu hybrid and a singing pink ball against a literal potted plant. I think we're past things being out of place.

Besides, K.Rool's shown that Sakurai isn't a total xenophobe and will put in Western characters, and make them incredibly true to form. The Mayles brothers didn't even know it was coming.

I'm sorry, I just never understood the "Sakurai will never put in Western characters because he's super racist!" argument. He just hasn't yet; doesn't mean he won't.

 

[WaxPython]

games should be more diverse and Nintendo games should be more diverse because diversity and representation is a good thing

Who are we to tell Japan what to do? They should have the freedom to make characters the way they want to it's a completely different culture to our own