Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Nethermoosen]

one board is not indicative of what the response would actually be see this board for examples. every board is insular and ignores how the vast majority would react or expect. i remember we had a discussion on this board about whether saber would qualify and she does as a video game character for sure.

Thank you for improving my vocabulary. For everyone else who also doesn’t know:

 

[Deleted member]

"Illumination suffers huge losses in theaters with their Grinch movie after a ploy involving Super Smash Bros"

If it wasn't for the Grinch hoax, I'd have forgotten they were remaking the Grinch, and now I have to see it.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

But then wouldn't it make the most sense to get a Dragon Quest rep than Sora? DQ11 is on the way to Switch. It's a really really long way before KH3 is realized on the Switch. No matter how updated (They said it's mostly the screen) it won't compete with a PS4 or a Pro for that matter. So as DQ it'll take some time to dev.

So now a Dragon Quest character makes the most sense?

Do you just not like Sora or something?

 

[SuperSceptile15]

*face palm* It's a door opener :/

Cloud's inclusion has nothing to do with Geno. He's Cloud freaking Strife. Sakurai knew how much hype his inclusion would lead to. It wasn't a ploy to get Geno in the next game. I swear some Geno fans are a bit delusional. Let's be real, how many people have even played Super Mario RPG? It's all a big bandwagon.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

But yeah, Cloud has no real history with Nintendo. He's FFVII too, not generic Final Fantasy. They specify this with both his design and actual game he's from.

And that’s gonna change next year

And does yoga while runs in circles.

Villager managed to fear something for once

The only part missing was showing shouting, "Chrom! I have a plan! It's--" before getting wiped away.

Had she been able to share her plan in time, everyone would have been safe and having a party instead.

What about Male Robin? Or does he just die while talking about his top scalings

 

[TheCJBrine]

Made a Piranha Plant thumbnail:

Spoiler

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

And that’s gonna change next year

Which still doesn't matter, because the character was added despite having no real history with Nintendo.

It's never been a requirement. Can it help? Yeah, sometimes. It's why Geno still works well, but it's fan requests that are getting Sakurai to try and actually get him in. Not so much history. Of course, it's still up to SE to say yes.

 

[SuperiorYoshi87]

Nintendo history was never a major requirement when it came to 3rd Parties: Cloud, Bayo, Ryu/Ken edit: Can't forget Snake

But neither is relevancy: Ices, G&W, Ness, Pitt, Captain Falcon, K.Rool, Ridley

The last two especially are examples of characters getting in not for their relevancy to their respective franchises or even their likelyhood of reappearance in the future (As far as we can tell K.Rool is dead to the Donkey Kong series), it was based on fan demand

Sakurai isn't just basing his picks on the biggest names of the time, if anything PP is also an example of that

K. Rool is going to return to the DK series no doubt. There's no way Nintendo doesn't bring him back after the massive fan demand.. not to mention the reaction to his Smash inclusion...

Besides the info that BKuppa got from the guys over at DK Vine really explains the deal with K. Rool.. he'll be back.

 

[VGPhaze]

...I guess now is a good time to ask who you guys plan to use when the base game releases, since we know the roster now and had some time to decompress

Super excited to try out K. Rool after seeing more gameplay of him.

Love Isabelle’s fishing rod and can’t wait to try her.

I’ve always been a fan of wtf characters and Pirhana Plant is my favorite one so far. I LOVE how stupid it looks when it runs. It makes me laugh, and I can’t wait to try it out.

Ice Climbers were my original favorites in melee when I first played the game, and Diddy is looking as good as ever so they are on my list.

Finally I can’t wait to try out all of the other characters who weren’t in smash 4. But the ones above will probably be who I focus on, plus potentially Shulk and Pokémon Trainer.

 

[Nekoo]

And who said it has anything to do with number of fans? Ok then, Dragon Quest fans are far greater than Sora's . Dragon Quest rep it is!

I see nothing wrong with that

R.O.B and Piranha fans were especially far greater than both Sora and DQ fans.

Ah yes.
The famous smash bubble, but I'm not going into that discussion because this is going to use the "echo chamber" argument.

 

[Thinkaman]

Geno is always the most awkward to talk about.

He's a 22-year-old relic from a single game in which he wasn't even on the box.

But he's also the coolest ever and Sakurai is on the record as actively wanting/trying to put him in.

Putting Geno in makes no sense, but of course I want him and hope for it to happen. I'm just not super surprised when it doesn't.

 

[Deleted member]

So now a Dragon Quest character makes the most sense?

Do you just not like Sora or something?

I mean, I think both Sora and a Dragon Quest character are possible. I think it could go either way.

 

[RyuhoFox]

The demo events are weird to me. They are doing a bunch of them but they all seem so limited in where they end up(most being in places where people already had the chance to play anyway from what I can tell).

 

[Robertman2]

For the purpose of what we're considering, an Atlus rep from those series of games, absolutely. I would think Joker from P5 would be the pick to represent the series.

good choice

insert plug for my joker support thread here

 

[Flyboy]

Does anyone know if Dark Samus's alts have been seen? I'm praying for a SA-X skin.

 

[Noipoi]

...I guess now is a good time to ask who you guys plan to use when the base game releases, since we know the roster now and had some time to decompress

Exit: "Illumination suffers huge losses in theaters with their Grinch movie after a ploy involving Super Smash Bros"

I wanna get good as Inkling and Incineroar first and foremost.

Off screen deaths could potentially be...

trying to deflect the beams of line by twirling his flail only to get disintegrated. looks ok it horror as he too succumbs.

gets on his bike and takes off and manages to dodge a few only to get slammed by two

is sleeping on a rock; far away from the fight.

tried to greet the beam of light by saying “HI IM DAISY!“ only to meet an abrupt end.

attempted to use his mass of Waddle Dees and Doos to protect him but they all meet their same girsely fate.

biked away, laughing as if he'd already won. He didn't.
was already planning his next reincarnation.
was cowering in absolute terror.

 

[GoeGoe]

What constitutes a "Nintendo desire?" A character wanted by Nintendo? A character wanted by fans of Nintendo? But then what constitutes a "fan of Nintendo?" See how such a vague term can be confusing? It seems like you just came up with a buzzword to avoid valid points against your arguments.

While he may love the fans, Sakurai first has a duty to serve Nintendo and get them the most profit possible. Sure, his status gives him wiggle room to include less popular characters, but he's ultimately going to go with what will make the most amount of people happy. It's not like Sakurai's going to back out of a deal if he doesn't get Geno, he's going to go for the next best character. For Sm4sh, it was Cloud, and for Smash Ultimate, it'll be either Sora or Lara Croft.
I think he's come to terms with not getting Geno because he's likely already been denied permission to use him as a playable character repeatedly. For all we know he may have gone for someone with more wide popularity and passed Geno entirely despite his own bias.

Geno just isn't likely, as much as he is desired by the core Smash Bros. fanbase. And even then, the core fanbase is nothing but a loud minority.

Also in terms of KH on Switch the very least they can do is port Kingdom Hearts 1.5 + 2.5 HD Remix. Portable Kingdom Hearts (that isn't a spinoff) is a huge selling point in of itself.

A Sakurai's.
Most profit done already by Cloud. Time for Geno. If not then next is a DQ rep, not Sora.
Yes, cause KH and TR were always on Nintendo consoles.
I'm glad you said "I think", that's all to it then.
And Sora fans are the quite majority, right?
As if the fans will fill their to do list.

 

[「 Derk 」]

Nailing down 5 dlc is really hard to do. I feel bad for Sakurai since he has to actually make the decision on 5 because there is soooo many options.

I'd like to see something like:
- Literally any final fantasy character to go with cloud. Yuna with her aeons or a dressphere mechanic to work something like pokemon trainer would be pretty cool. Everyone had their eyes on Sora atm though which I would be 100% behind my boy showing up!
- Shantae seems like she could have a fun moveset to work with. Incorporating the animal forms and such. She is a fan favorite also.
- Banjo, Crash, Spyro, or Rayman. I think any of these 4 would please a lot of people. Especially banjo after the grinch stuff.
- A Zelda rep. It's been too long since they received any form of support for such a notable series. Any of the champions from BotW would be cool. Impa is a core to the series, Midna was well received also.
- One character voted for by another ballot.

 

[SuperSceptile15]

Geno is always the most awkward to talk about.

He's a 22-year-old relic from a single game in which he wasn't even on the box.

But he's also the coolest ever and Sakurai is on the record as actively wanting/trying to put him in.

Putting Geno in makes no sense, but of course I want him and hope for it to happen. I'm just not super surprised when it doesn't.

Yeah. I can see why he has some fans. Geno Whirl was this "epic" and "awesome" move that did lots of damage and could one-shot one of the bosses. He also shoots bullets and cannonballs out of his arms. I can certainly see the potential, but there are just too many other characters that are more popular and deserving than him.

 

[Misery Brick]

You seem to have the assumption that your explanation of my staement is what you've written, that's not true.
Insane.. explode.. !! Ok. you could've said "I'm a Sora fan". But hey, I'm not a Geno fan but I won't call him a nobody. If so then Sora is a nobody too, I don't see a Sora costume in Smash. Why do you diss other's wishes? You like Sora, fine. So does Geno fans, they like Geno.

I wouldn't go that far at all.
I mean Sora and KH has an extremely huge fanbase, that completely dwarfs Geno.
This is mostly because Kingdom Hearts is attached to one of the most recognized companies in the world:
Disney.

Also, that's a false equivalency. Many popular characters haven't received Mii costumes, so that's saying those are lesser in popularity or recognizability compared to someone like Ray 01, who's from a pretty obscure series.

Geno has one appearance in a relatively small Mario game, while Sora hails from one of Square Enix's biggest selling series.
That's not trying to disparage supporters, it's just objective fact.
I'm down for Geno making it in the game, it's just he is considered a niche and obscure character.

 

[ThreeT]

I keep hearing people say that they didn't see this Spirit so they have a chance to be playable. Like people, we haven't seen even a fraction of the spirits we will get in this game. Don't jump to conclusions so quickly. I won't be surprised if just about all popular Nintendo characters end up having a spirit.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Which still doesn't matter, because the character was added despite having no real history with Nintendo.

It's never been a requirement. Can it help? Yeah, sometimes. It's why Geno still works well, but it's fan requests that are getting Sakurai to try and actually get him in. Not so much history. Of course, it's still up to SE to say yes.

It does matter though...not beforehand or when it comes to requirements, but when it comes to somebody wanting to use the “has no history with Nintendo” or “FF7 was never a Nintendo game” as an excuse for why he shouldn’t be in the game...he’s got the one thing he used to be targeted for to be used as an advantage

 

[ZephyrZ]

I keep hearing people say that they didn't see this Spirit so they have a chance to be playable. Like people, we haven't seen even a fraction of the spirits we will get in this game. Don't jump to conclusions so quickly. I won't be surprised if just about all popular Nintendo characters end up having a spirit.

At the risk of strawmaning, "spirits deconfirms characters" is the new "music theory deconfirms characters".
Mewtwo had a trophy in Smash 3DS, and then a second, higher quality fighter trophy was added if you got the DLC.

There's a really good chance they aren't showing current fighter spirits yet because they're the reward for clearing classic mode. They are the replacement for trophies, after all.

 

[Sigran101]

All I'm hoping for for DLC is Geno and Joker. I don't have any delusions about my other most wanted making it. If by some miracle Ray got in alongside them though I'd never need to buy another smash game.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It does matter though...not beforehand or when it comes to requirements, but when it comes to somebody wanting to use the “has no history with Nintendo” or “FF7 was never a Nintendo game” as an excuse for why he shouldn’t be in the game...he’s got the one thing he used to be targeted for to be used as an advantage

Which nobody was making that argument here.

The argument is that only Nintendo relevant characters should be added. Cloud was not Nintendo relevant and was added. That's the point.

 

[Weeman]

Sora is probably the choice that makes the most sense in terms of character popularity. It's just the intricate ties to Disney that Kingdom Hearts naturally has, that put him a weird spot for prediction.
Dragon Quest is in a spot similar to Monster Hunter, where the series makes tons of sense to have represented in the game in some form, but actually choosing a character from it is probably awkward since it doesn't have some kind of clear cut main character.
Geno is Geno.

Maybe our Square rep is actually Crono HELL YEAH CHRONO TRIGGER MUSIC YEAAAAAAAAAAHHH

 

[Arcadenik]

So now a Dragon Quest character makes the most sense?

I mean, Piranha Plant proved that generic enemies can get in Smash.

And Slime is a generic enemy that also happens to be the mascot of Dragon Quest.

 

[TheCJBrine]

At the risk of strawmaning, "spirits deconfirms characters" is the new "music theory deconfirms characters".
Mewtwo had a trophy in Smash 3DS, and then a second, higher quality fighter trophy was added if you got the DLC.

There's a really good chance they aren't showing current fighter spirits yet because they're the reward for clearing classic mode. They are the replacement for trophies, after all.

I wonder if there will be Spirits of Final Smashes...?

Y'know, Spirits seem cool, but it was nice reading trophy descriptions about different characters and such...

 

[Captain Shwampy]

>big the cat spirit fight
>its purple incineroar with little green greninja

 

[TheCJBrine]

>big the cat spirit fight
>its purple incineroar with little green greninja

Froggy!

 

[Thinkaman]

Also, I don't think people realize how impressive it was for Geno to get a Runner Up Award aka a Mii costume.

Very few characters (only 32) earned costumes, and of those:

• 5 are now full fighters
• 9 are assist trophies
• 8 are featured on stages or Final Smashes

That's right, a majority of former NPC Mii Costumes are now in the game. Most of these characters are iconic avatars of their series.

But not only did Mr. 22-years-old one-shot Geno get to hang with this crowd, he led it. He was the only one given a "newcomer" introduction in a Direct.

There's just something about Geno, man. I dunno what it is.

 

[blackghost]

Nailing down 5 dlc is really hard to do. I feel bad for Sakurai since he has to actually make the decision on 5 because there is soooo many options.

I'd like to see something like:
- Literally any final fantasy character to go with cloud.

cloud belongs with his lover nemesis sepiroth. you can still get sora and have sepiroth. he has music, he has a stage, and has the recognition and will sell like crazy.

 

[Idon]

Sora is probably the choice that makes the most sense in terms of character populalrity. It's just the intricate ties to Disney that Kingdom Hearts naturally has, that put him a weird spot for prediction.
Dragon Quest is in a spot similar to Monster Hunter, where the series makes tons of sense to have represented in the game in some form, but actually choosing a character from it is probably awkward since it doesn't have some kind of clear cut protagonist.
Geno is Geno.

Maybe our Square rep is actually Crono HELL YEAH CHRONO TRIGGER MUSIC YEAAAAAAAAAAHHH

For Monster Hunter, just use the titular Monster Hunter with the flagship Rathalos armor. It's what Capcom advertises in literally everysingle one.

 

[cothero]

Or maybe he just felt like putting in Piranha Plant cause he thought it'd be funny

TBH I think this is the most likely scenario

Let's be honest here, PP moveset is godlike. Of all Mario generic enemies, he was probably the most realizable in terms of movepool - Petey Piranha as final smash fits perfectly. Even Waluigi couldn't have a better moveset, in my opinion.

 

[GoeGoe]

Cloud's inclusion has nothing to do with Geno. He's Cloud freaking Strife. Sakurai knew how much hype his inclusion would lead to. It wasn't a ploy to get Geno in the next game. I swear some Geno fans are a bit delusional. Let's be real, how many people have even played Super Mario RPG? It's all a big bandwagon.

Prove it.
Also, who said I'm a Geno fan? XD
With or without the SNES mini?

 

[ThatOneAnon]

Geno is always the most awkward to talk about.

He's a 22-year-old relic from a single game in which he wasn't even on the box.

But he's also the coolest ever and Sakurai is on the record as actively wanting/trying to put him in.

Putting Geno in makes no sense, but of course I want him and hope for it to happen. I'm just not super surprised when it doesn't.

I honestly do believe the Squeenix rep is Geno. It could be Sora, it could be a DQ rep, but after that Piranha Plant fakeout I'm convinced.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Putting my money on Geno for a Squeenix rep.

 

[GoeGoe]

Ah yes.
The famous smash bubble, but I'm not going into that discussion because this is going to use the "echo chamber" argument.

Something just flew over your head.. did you see it?
It was a joke *forehead slap*

 

[Untouch]

https://www.redbubble.com/shop/dragon quest?
I mean, when people say that DQ doesn't have a prominent character.... don't they?

 

[Dragoncharystary]

So I avoided smashboards all of yesterday in fear that it would become crashboards. Going to give a quick summary of my thoughts on the direct: I was a little disappointed at first because none of the characters I supported made it in (Shadow really was just a slap in the face), but I quickly got over it because the two characters we did get on the base roster look pretty cool.

I will post on Vergeben, DLC, and other things later but I wanted to post on something I'm pretty sure hasn't been really touched on yet, and that is the appreciation of non playable roles, specifically Assist Trophies and Poke-Balls. I think this is going to go underappreciated when the game launches but one should realize that since trophies are now gone, being an Assist Trophy or Poke-Ball means that much more. They are now some of the lucky few that get 3D models in the game. Not only that but they still get to fight alongside everyone else on the field of battle which is way more than many other characters can say.

Just look at how far Assist Trophies have come. In Brawl, they began as a group of mostly complete nobodies from games like Japan exclusive GBA games. One would pop up every so often and it would be really just an annoyance more than anything else because you could never do anything to fight back. Now those limitations on Assist Trophies have been broken and they are much closer to actual fighters. The Assist Trophy roster could make an all-star fighting game roster themselves. Every character I've supported since the beginning with the exception of Bandanna Dee (DeeLC anyone?) and Captain Toad (stage element) was deconfirmed as an AT somewhere along the way but I honestly am really happy that they are still in the game in such a prominent role and I must thank Sakurai for thinking of my characters and their fans.

I encourage you all to do the same for your favorites that were deconfirmed. Really, ATs and Poke-Balls are a pretty big deal.