Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[The_Naraotor]

Imagine that we get Goku, but as the Dragon Ball Evolution version.

Delete this post, this idea and your life we don't speak about this HERESY !

 

[BigMac1304]

Any new leaks?

 

[T3Z3R1]

Got done reading papageno's theory in PM,

And boy, It was so interesting post to read there. He have surprisingly good points of what's going on. He even explains how insiders are silence on the leak, and why grinch leak has to be real. I also found the reason why Sakurai left the E3 after the tournamet so quickly accurate, so while he was working on nerfs nad fixing bugs, he was also working on Banjo at same time!

 

[Fane]

drinking bear

FFFFFFF

Either a bad pun, and you should be ashamed, or a perfect typo, and should still be ashamed.

 

[Deleted member]

Delete this post, this idea and your life we don't speak about this HERESY !
View attachment 172989

*throws a Snickers*

 

[GoeGoe]

You want Goku, Goemon turns into a super sayian.
You want a wooden puppet, Sasuke is there with Goemon.
You want a vampire hunter, Goemon killed Dracula with one hit.
You want a luggage carrier, Goemon and Ebisumaru.
You want a giant robot, Goemon's buddy on call.. err blow.
You want a chain hitter, Goemon's kiseru.
You want a spender, Goemon throws gold. (about $300k per throw).
You want ballerina, mermaid, spear wigged, bomber, kabuki, yoyo master, bazooka master, katana master, fan master, phone master, shrink master, jet master.. the list goes on. All fail to compare.
Seriously, asking anything BUT Goemon is beyond me.

 

[larlargaming]

there ya go

thank you!!

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

there ya go

Hmm... Interesting watch...
I'm still a bit cautious though. I'm still on team neutral for now

 

[The_Naraotor]

Any new leaks?

The Nintenja are apparently in the wild flagging the video who speak about the leak.

 

[Wambo]

PapaGenos' theory is that Incineroar was dropped in the last minute in favor of Banjo after Sakurai had a meeting with Microsoft at E3 this year, which was supposedly why he rushed back after the tournament.

This is a nonsensical theory. The last few months of game development is usually spent on debugging. By that time in development, Incineroar was likely complete. You don't drop a character like that for something that you just decided on.

>Team of 100 people working on Ultimate
>Rushes back to start work on Banjo and fit him in

I mean, it makes sense. They can still debug and try to fit in a big boi like Banjo.

 

[Flyboy]

Who's yall's biggest pipe dream fighter? Mine would be Geralt of Rivia

Marina Liteyears and it's been like that since 1999.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

We also shouldn’t harass him.

Gamefaqs already does a pretty good job at doing that anyways.

Seriously, why has no one stopped him from going back there? There are better places to spread information.

 

[CosmicQuark]

>Team of 100 people working on Ultimate
>Rushes back to start work on Banjo and fit him in

I mean, it makes sense. They can still debug and try to fit in a big boi like Banjo.

I could potentially believe in the idea, but the timing is off. These characters take years to be worked on, and I don't think scrapping one will free up time to develop a character from scratch in 4 months, especially if by E3 all of the characters, Incineroar included, would have been nearly complete. I really don't see how that's possible.

 

[Fowlman11]

there ya go

Been waiting for this ALL DAY...

Thanks papagenos for sharing this information with us!!!

 

[mbvswb]

team real. all the way now

 

[Paperchampion23]

there ya go

All ready to say Papageno's is probably the most down to earth youtuber say "I".

 

[Atlas2398]

The feeling when sakurai might bring back considered characters like chorus kids and mach rider, but not plusle & minun


As for most wanted newcomers? Waluigi, Mew, Plusle & Minun, chorus kids

 

[TokuDoku]

Seems like Vergeben has gone crazy :/

https://imgur.com/a/Fir6x0w

Seen in reddit: https://imgur.com/a/Fir6x0w

Wasn't this before the banner leak?

 

[Polan]

papagenos video was interesting...

He believes the Grinch leak is real. He theorizes that Sakurai secured the rights for Banjo during E3, and rushed back to develop him. Believing Incineroar to be both low priority and a late addition, Sakurai cut him from the base roster to pour time and resources into Banjo. However, he also states that Incineroar has been saved for DLC, if that's the case.

I'm not sure if I totally believe it, but it is something. I still believe in Incineroar, but whether he is base of DLC is anyone's guess now...

that's not how game development works. that's not how any of this works.

 

[NotLiquid]

>Team of 100 people working on Ultimate
>Rushes back to start work on Banjo and fit him in

I mean, it makes sense. They can still debug and try to fit in a big boi like Banjo.

And outright remove a character that would've likely been complete at that time.

As I said - makes no sense. Game development is all about resource management. Adding another character in the game, four months before the game goes gold, having to be rebalanced against the entire rest of the cast - outright replacing another one that was most likely complete - is completely and utterly ridiculous. It's more likely that Banjo would've been saved for DLC if that was the case. Not to mention, it's highly unlikely that TPC would take kindly to that. There'd likely have to be a lot of license renegotiations just to get this to work. You don't really solve a deal like this in just a single meeting.

 

[papagenos]

I could potentially believe in the idea, but the timing is off. These characters take years to be worked on, and I don't think scrapping one will free up time to develop a character from scratch in 4 months, especially if by E3 all of the characters, Incineroar included, would have been nearly complete. I really don't see how that's possible.

my guess would be it has more to do with man power, characters might have had "teams" working on them or something and sakurai took people off that to add banjo. just speculating that of course i have no idea how they run development.

 

[SuperNintendoKid]

there ya go

Papa bless!

 

[doomedtacox]

PapaGenos' theory is that Incineroar was dropped in the last minute in favor of Banjo after Sakurai had a meeting with Microsoft at E3 this year, which was supposedly why he rushed back after the tournament.

This is a nonsensical theory. The last few months of game development is usually spent on debugging. By that time in development, Incineroar was likely complete. You don't drop a character like that for something that you just decided on.

I'm pretty sure they've been working on characters right down to the wire in previous titles. Apparently brawl was even delayed to get Sonic in.

 

[Darkurai]

I'm pretty sure they've been working on characters right down to the wire in previous titles. Apparently brawl was even delayed to get Sonic in.

Do you have a source for this?

 

[NotLiquid]

I'm pretty sure they've been working on characters right down to the wire in previous titles. Apparently brawl was even delayed to get Sonic in.

Brawl got delayed. Ultimate didn't.

 

[Fortnite4Smash]

YO, THAT PAPA GENOS VIDEO WAS ****ING FIRE!!!!! PUT GAMEXPLAIN AND INSIDERS ON THE SPOT!!

 

[lightdrago]

that's not how game development works. that's not how any of this works.

After reading the other comments, I now realize that theory is a bit ridiculous. Pokemon S/M may have come out a year after Smash, but Sakurai most likely saw the concept art already in 2015. Incineroar would have been complete by now, and cutting him to devote resources to Banjo would be asinine. I'm still a little iffy on the theory, but that is already a blow to it.

 

[papagenos]

I'm pretty sure they've been working on characters right down to the wire in previous titles. Apparently brawl was even delayed to get Sonic in.

this.

sonic delaying brawl three months was a huge part of us coming to this conclusion.

 

[JacobLeBeauOFFICIAL]

i dont get why he still uses ganefaqs they despise him there

To attempt to make it like he has reliable sources?

 

[greenluigiman2]

Some people speculated about ACP-PLV taking down a video on something completely unrelated to Smash (work environment) but I didn't really think much of it still.

I'm not taking sides, but this became a thing, so...

How is it unrelated? It's the same exact video people have pointed to as potential evidence for the leak being real, due to certain things matching up. Also, it's not ACP-PLV's Youtube channel, yet the video on them is the only one that got pulled from the channel. Regardless of whether or not it got pulled due to Smash comment spam or to hide evidence, it got pulled because of the Smash leak.

 

[Fenriraga]

there ya go

Hmmmmm.

I'm all for Team Real, but I'm really not sure how I feel about the Banjo Incineroar theory. 6 months to completely secure the rights to the character, get remixes, make the character, potentially make the stage, make the trailer, make the trophies, etc? While still making sure the rest of the game was going smoothly? And "all" it had to cost them was a character from their arguably most successful IP being moved to DLC? I know the Smash team is massive, but that still seems a bit off. I feel like the game was probably in its testing/debugging/polishing stage by the time E3 rolled around. Not impossible, but... still.

This isn't really a case of , as even when Brawl was delayed, we still had full gameplay of Sonic. He was playable at a demo for the game not even a month after. And the game was STILL delayed for him despite that. That's much different from him going back and immediately starting work on the character.

I absolutely don't believe PapaGenos would say this if he really didn't have stock in the possibility, but I dunno. I won't deny the possibility at least.

 

[ekc]

Look PapaGeno seems like a nice dude, and genuinely passionate about Smash, but a claim like the Smash x Banjo E3 conversation needs more information for me to jump on. It just sounds too crazy, and unhealthy for my hype to believe.

 

[Nekoo]

I'm pretty sure they've been working on characters right down to the wire in previous titles. Apparently brawl was even delayed to get Sonic in.

The difference is the workline between Melee to Brawl and Smash 4 to Ultimate.
Ultimate probably managed to get like 80% of it's roster back from Smash 4 more easily than Melee to Brawl or Brawl to Smash 4

It make absolutely no sense if the characters list was decided in 2015 that probably like, 3 years of work get thrown away, and EVEN MORE you replace A POKEMON for Banjo when you have Mach-Rider/Isaac/Chorus Kids etc... (no offense to their fans)

 

[Cahalan]

Sakurai would have known the impact and hype that Banjo would bring.

So cutting Incineroar (an newcomer to an already saturated series), isn't completely out of the picture.

 

[JacobLeBeauOFFICIAL]

Also 40 days until smash releases.

 

[FalconFire93]

So, out of these Capcom characters, rank them by how much you would wan to see them in Ultimate;

Dante
Leon Kennedy
Amaterasu
Phoniex Wright
Monster Hunter

1. Dante
2. Leon
3. Phoenix Wright
4. Amaterasu
5. Monster Hunter

But I’d like to add a few more:
6. Strider Hiryu
7. Arthur from Ghosts N Goblins
8. Firebrand from Demon’s Crest
9. Morrigan Aensland from Darkstalkers
10. Poison from Final Fight

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

my guess would be it has more to do with man power, characters might have had "teams" working on them or something and sakurai took people off that to add banjo. just speculating that of course i have no idea how they run development.

I'm curious about the context. Is that your speculation or speculation from a source? Or some kind of information that was uncovered?

That whole Banjo thing.

 

[Wambo]

Alright people, we need to start putting together a timeline of when and where Sakurai/Phil Spencer were at E3. We'll look at empty gaps and try to calculate how long a meeting like that would need to be.

 

[DiamondJoyride]

I could believe him adding Banjo at the last minute. Sounds like something that he might do.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I mean incineroar was either bait or got the same treatment as Chrom/chorus kid in smash 4

I mean that’s the simplicity route

Edit: oops forgot he could have ben put as dlc instead