Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Guybrush20X6]

Today I learned they made a Dragon Ball Evolution game. Why.

Twas the era of all movies getting a tie-in game.

Even the flippin' DaVinci code.
Seriously.

 

[Pyra]

The Advent Calendar idea makes sense, but why would they start in November, rather than October? Aside from needing time to prepare all the mini-Directs, of course, but surely one or two of them would be ready to show by now.

When does an advent calendar span 2 months?

 

[DraginHikari]

Today I learned they made a Dragon Ball Evolution game. Why.

Because Marketing.

 

[osby]

Take a look at Bayo's face when she gets screen KO'd, and tell me if you like it. Funniest thing I've seen today.

I think they just didn't programmed her expressions yet but I still liked it. "Really? A Screen KO? Right in the middle of a match?" She fights with a prince against a pink blob and a plumber, she stopped giving a frick.

 

[Starbound]

I have an easier time believing Incineroar is leak bait rather than cut content.

I don't know how they could work on Banjo and finish it in 4 months unless they started before getting the approval from Microsoft.

Though I'm not sure how much I believe Incineroar is bait either.

 

[SeasideKingDumb]

I think the idea of Incineroar being outright cut is kinda a stretch. However, I think him possibly being moved to DLC isn't that farfetched of an idea.

We really have no idea how a typical Smash development cycle works, but if Incineroar wasn't completely finished by the time they wanted to finish him moving him over as a DLC character isn't that much of a stretch. Didn't something similar happen to Mewtwo and Lucas, where everyone assumed they'd be in the base game but they were DLC by the end of it?

Again I have no idea how Smash or game development in general works but out of the newcomers at least, just based on everything from character representation / ballot representation Incineroar sort of stuck out like a sore thumb compared to the other newcomers / characters on the leaked banner. I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't even Banjo that pushed him out of development and he just had his own design issues that couldn't be resolved in a timely manner.

 

[Enchess]

Eh, my quick takes:
-TPC can't force Sakurai to include a Pokemon if he doesn't want to. That makes no sense at all. If Sakurai hypothetically wanted to cut Incineroar, it's up to him, not them.
-Working in the games industry, papagenos theory isn't outrageous or impossible.
-Incineroar makes sense as bait if you think of bait from a different angle. Instead of being used to track leakers, it's used to keep a real leak from gaining traction. If every leaker bands together dismissing the real leaks cuz no Incineroar, it keeps it surprising to the public when those leaks are true.

Personal conclusion: it's a 50-50 toss up for me if banner is real. I lean towards real, but not strongly. If real, I give Incineroar a 1% chance. It doesn't make any sense for the banner to be incomplete when likely the printed materials won't be public until after full roster reveal. If fake, I give Incineroar a 90% chance.

 

[TheBlue10]

Good video papagenos ! Just watched it. Not sure I buy into the whole E3 meeting unless your source is actually saying that though. But interesting nonetheless.

I could see Banjo being a late minute addition though and maybe Incineroar always planned as DLC to hype up Gen 8 or seomthing (or just because of how well Pokemon sells)

Incineroar being used to hype up Gen 8 doesn't make any sense. He's a Gen 7 Pokémon, he'd only represent Gen 7.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Thats why he said it was a theory. The leak could still be 100% correct and Incineroar could still be 100% cut/DLC/whatever and nobody will ever know the true story until Sakurai decides to tell it.

Indeed. If Banjo's in, I'm 99% certain it was from the 2015 ballot, after Spencer's tweet, and resulted in the Nintendo/Microsoft relationship we are now seeing the reverberations of (collaborations like that, particularly rivals in a console space, must take years to develop behind the scenes). I think his chances are still fairly likely, I'm just not sure it's involved in the Incineroar situation.

 

[bountyhunta87]

Well in only a few days all this chaos will be over, as a matter of fact in the first few seconds of the next direct the world will burn...

 

[T3Z3R1]

You just reminded me this exists.

Why does this game exist? This is first time I learned that there's game version of that ****ty movie and it just look like tekken.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Today I learned they made a Dragon Ball Evolution game. Why.

Twas the era of all movies getting a tie-in game.

Even the flippin' DaVinci code.
Seriously.

Because Marketing.

At least they had the sense to keep it off of the big home consoles.

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly, this has been the wildest leak I've ever seen.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

As I personally believe the Grinch leak is real; I must say...

I can't wait to hear the way Xander Mobus belts out the name of each new fighter

- KEN!
- SHADOW!
- MACH RIDER!
- ISAAC!
- GENO!
- CHORUS KIDS/GLEE CLUB!

and of course

- BANJO AND KAZOOIE!

 

[Idon]

Incineroar being used to hype up Gen 8 doesn't make any sense. He's a Gen 7 Pokémon, he'd only represent Gen 7.

Malmetal for the long con.
You thought they were promoting let's go when really they were promoting Smash.

 

[TheBlue10]

Well in only a few days all this chaos will be over, as a matter of fact in the first few seconds of the next direct the world will burn...

Seems like that could be the case.

 

[hazza5557]

99% team real now thanks to Papageno’s video.

 

[SuperSceptile15]

I just realized that it's obvious why Toad isn't playable in Smash. All of the fighters in the Smash roster are their own characters, with the exception of Pokemon Trainer, Villager, Inkling, Robin, Mii Fighters, Wii Fit Trainer, and Corrin. These are avatar characters, hence why they each have male and female variations. Toad is not an avatar, either. It is a species. "But aren't Yoshi and the Pokemon just species, too?" First of all, Yoshi is the star of his own franchise. The Yoshi in Smash is directly based off the Yoshi that starred in Yoshi’s Island. As for the Pokemon, each of them are based off specific ones from the anime and movies. The Pikachu and Greninja in Smash are directly based off the ones used by Ash. The Jigglypuff in Smash is based off the same one from the anime that put people to sleep and drew on their faces. The Mewtwo in Smash is based off the antagonist from the first movie. The Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Chairzard in Smash all belong to the Pokemon Trainer who is based off of Red (Leaf for the female version). The Pichu in Smash is based off the one from the Pikachu and Pichu short. The Lucario in Smash is based off the one from the eighth Pokemon movie. Toad cannot be playable because it is not a specific entity. "But Toad was playable in SMB2 (USA)!" The Toad in that game didn’t have any unique abilities. It also had blue spots, which not every Toad has. When people see Yoshi in the roster, they know it is THE Yoshi from his franchise. If a Toad were to be playable, it would need to have a moveset based off of many different kinds of Toads, so nobody would know exactly which game that particular one came from. The only Toad that can really be considered his own character is Captain Toad, but he is already a background NPC in the New Donk City Hall stage. Perhaps Sakurai couldn't figure out how to give a proper moveset to a character that is incapable of jumping?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Well in only a few days all this chaos will be over, as a matter of fact in the first few seconds of the next direct the world will burn...

Anywhere between 3 and a half hours and 40 days

 

[Fortnite4Smash]

Eh, my quick takes:
-TPC can't force Sakurai to include a Pokemon if he doesn't want to. That makes no sense at all. If Sakurai hypothetically wanted to cut Incineroar, it's up to him, not them.
-Working in the games industry, papagenos theory isn't outrageous or impossible.
-Incineroar makes sense as bait if you think of bait from a different angle. Instead of being used to track leakers, it's used to keep a real leak from gaining traction. If every leaker bands together dismissing the real leaks cuz no Incineroar, it keeps it surprising to the public when those leaks are true.

Personal conclusion: it's a 50-50 toss up for me if banner is real. I lean towards real, but not strongly. If real, I give Incineroar a 1% chance. It doesn't make any sense for the banner to be incomplete when likely the printed materials won't be public until after full roster reveal. If fake, I give Incineroar a 90% chance.

Very plausible, the leaker who saw him could've been seeing a model that was made only to trick him and other leakers.

 

[Fane]

TBH the only character I see that would prove the leak 100% true just from the reveal is Mach Rider.

The rest are likely candidates regardless, and if we get any of them it'd be until we see the mural whether we know the leak is real or not.

 

[SushiRoll]

To add to this, I've been thinking about the relationship between the image leak and the text leak (the Chadondorf one). What could have happened is that the banner leak happened back in September (the text leak was posted on 4chan on 29 September IIRC) and shared among a limited number of people. One of the people who saw it, confident that it was real, decided to share it on 4chan but added a few made up additions of their own: cut characters and Spirits Mode bosses. I feel this could be the case as Eric or his friends are unlikely to know such information. The Chadondorf leaker may have added it to make the leak their own, even if it was false additions.

... At least I think that's how it could hypothetically have happened. Still not entirely sure (about 60/40 in terms of thinking its fake), but this could have been the case.

Yeah, we actually have no idea when that snap was taken, or how long it was on the internet before it gained mainstream attention.

 

[osby]

As I personally believe the Grinch leak is real; I must say...

I can't wait to hear the way Xander Mobus belts out the name of each new fighter

- KEN!
- SHADOW!
- MACH RIDER!
- ISAAC!
- GENO!
- CHORUS KIDS/GLEE CLUB!

and of course

- BANJO AND KAZOOIE!

Wait until Banjo gets the Olimar treatment in English localisation.

salty?me?no way

 

[Cosmic77]

The E3 meeting is a nice theory, but as others have already pointed out, Incineroar as DLC makes even less sense if this is true.

Realistically, Banjo would be DLC like Smash 4's third-parties while Incineroar would be base game. It just doesn't make any sense to prioritize Banjo when Incineroar would've been well under way by then, and that's not even mentioning the fact that Pokemon newcomers typically have an expiration date before they're irrelevant.

 

[_gold_]

With how much emphasis PapaGenos is putting on his source, I'm just waiting for it to come out that he's actually been talking to Phil Spencer himself.

What would be funny is if the leak turned out to be a fake.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Why does this game exist? This is first time I learned that there's game version of that ****ty movie and it just look like tekken.

I have no clue of why, but it uses a weird version of the budokai engine.

It's my unfortunate duty as a Dragon Ball nerd to learn of these things lmao.

 

[Noipoi]

Honestly, this has been the wildest leak I've ever seen.

Boxes, Music, Vergeben, The Grinch. This is gonna go down in history as the weirdest hype season for a Smash game ever. And I was part of it!

 

[Darkmoone1]

This is a very interesting development papagenos . And you know what....I believe you entirely on the fact of who we're dealing with here: Masahiro Sakurai.

Masahiro Sakurai, the man who developed Melee on a 13 month development period with a destructive lifestyle.
Masahiro Sakurai, the man who delayed Brawl for several months just so he can squeeze an additional 3rd party character at the last second.
And now Masahiro Sakurai, the man who sacrificed a potentially developed Pokemon character so he can make full use of a recent deal with another game industry giant.

No, this isn't generally how game development works. In fact, it's pretty sloppy. But it is how the guy himself works. If he sees an opportunity he goes for it no matter the challenge. So I do believe this is the case, if the leak is real.

 

[Mc.Rad]

I’m gonna be real here, we’ve hit tinfoil levels...

 

[Fortnite4Smash]

Wait until Banjo gets the Olimar treatment in English localisation.

salty?me?no way

whats wrong with olimar?

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

It looks like a cheetah. Chester Cheetah confirmed?

Cheetahman confirmed.

 

[Iridium]

Should I feel lucky that I wasn't around during the ESRB leak? Was it heated in here?

I wonder how bad was it.

 

[Royalty1702]

His spear is shorter than Roy's sword, he can't really add anything from this point of view.
In fact I'm almost convinced that he would fit better as MK's echo with a couple of twisted moves than a true newcomer

Besides the fact that BWD also has a parasol, who cares if Roy's sword is bigger? It's still completely different than a spear. Spears are made for thrusting and throwing, swords aren't.

 

[Starbound]

Incineroar being used to hype up Gen 8 doesn't make any sense. He's a Gen 7 Pokémon, he'd only represent Gen 7.

Unless we get like Ash-Incineroar next gen.

 

[ShadowGamer193]

I’m gonna be real here, we’ve hit tinfoil levels...

We all knew the Isabelle fan art couldn’t keep us sane forever

 

[Pakky]

there ya go

I believe you.

I honestly do, based on tiger boy being the only one with highly detailed artwork.

-Banjo trademarks and the splash it would cause at launch.

- Incineroar being DLC doesn't bother me when DLC though I hope its more of a situation.

-People seeing incineroar first-hand makes sense but I wonder if he was in a semi-finished state and or was he just a render of some kind?

Incineroar being used to hype up Gen 8 doesn't make any sense. He's a Gen 7 Pokémon, he'd only represent Gen 7.

Remember Ash Greninja?

I've said in the past that Battle Bond might not be a one time deal.

And if moving forward they decided to snuff out megas, that would be a ideal path,

 

[Fortnite4Smash]

I’m gonna be real here, we’ve hit tinfoil levels...

lol true, but honestly it is kinda mind boggling how real this leak seems, yet so many figures are refusing to believe it because "where's the ****ing wrestling cat"

 

[Kirbunny431]

I kinda like the theory that Incineroar is a Pokeball Pokemon with a reasonably detailed moveset. What if they cut together a quick, internal video of the newcomers and listed Incineroar as one of them? The leakers would have video evidence of Incineroar's presence in the game, but without enough context to realize that he was actually just a detailed summon.

As for Ken, I imagine he was just a sacrifice to add more legitimacy. Everyone expects him anyway, so it isn't a huge spoiler if his addition is leaked.

 

[GAINAX]

Sonic in Brawl was a very late inclusion, so it's possible Banjo could be developed in a short time window. Also, if Banjo was a last minute decision, it might explain why we've not had any new Smash news for a while. Especially if they're saving it all for a final Direct!

 

[Pyra]

I’m gonna be real here, we’ve hit tinfoil levels...

Just now?