Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Mutsukki]

Alright, I think the Smash talk is done. Here's what went down.

Notes from SpawnCast

• Surprisingly to fill in some guest gaps, Liam Robertson made an appearance. Felt weird having one info broker who got some things right with one that has a streak going on so far.
• That "wristband"? Reconfirmed that it isn't a wristband, it's an endcap.
• Spawn: "I don't get why this specific leak blew up. We've had leaks before and people just brushed it off."
• Spawn says the leak isn't correct - Not all of the characters are fake, some of them are real, but some are fake. Still strongly believes Incineroar is in the game, but remember that this isn't the main crux of Spawn's concerns.
• Nate severely doesn't believe it's real and knows characters that aren't on the banner. Nate: "Even if one character isn't in there, it's still considered fake." Multiple characters, though, by the way.
• Doesn't actually know if Banjo is in the game, feels 50/50. Hopes Isaac is in the game.
• "The internet wants Geno. The general public? Not so sure." - Spawn's general feelings on Geno, leak aside.
• The "banner" was on a 4chan leak in the end of September. Can't point out which one, though.
• There has now been so many conspiracy theories coming out now, they think it's so insane, especially the one with "getting paid by Nintendo". Spawn: "Hey yo, can we get paid for this?" lol
• Nate kinda spat some truth over everyone attacking insiders. It should go without saying, but this is seriously so stupid and sad. It shouldn't be said. It's insane how far this divide has gone. Please stop attacking people over ****ing video games.
• Liam Robertson thinks that a factor for Banjo not getting in is because "Nintendo is stubborn, conservative Japanese men and they'd bend to the white man and "muh pride"". I swear I am not ****ing joking.

Oh, and one more thing.

• Got asked about Sora @ The Game Awards. Weirdly enough moved from that ASAP from "What about Steve?"

I'm. Just. Saying.

I guess this just reminded me why I did not like Liam Robertson, credibility aside lol. Gaf-level ****ty person.

 

[Swaggy-G]

People might dismiss the "Nintendo is silencing the leak" as a conspiracy theory, but you have to admit that the relative silence from the so-called "insiders" is very strange.
Especially from Gamexplain? Are you really telling me that the guys that jump on any credible leak and overanalyze every detail would just make one ****ty three minute video that unceremoniously dismisses it because it's blurry? Then they covered the mystery sprout in a separate video, even said it might relate to Golden Sun, yet not ONCE mentioned the leak there? They also did a review of this week's Smash news, but once again, did not mention the ****ing leak. Even if they had definitive proof that it was real/fake, I feel like they would still play along for the youtube views it would bring. There is definitely something going on behind the scenes.

 

[ShadowGamer193]

I’m gonna say it. Ken, Inceneroar, and Steve? Probably the least hype characters possible. 2 are so predictable and, from what I’ve seen, there was no demand for Steve before Ultimate. It would be such a let down from the hype roster that was leaked to us. But they might be saying all of this as Damage Control.

 

[doomedtacox]

I think it's important to point out that it makes no sense for insiders to lie or obfuscate.

One, they're not getting paid by Nintendo.

Two, if they know they're wrong, it's gonna come back to bite them. Nobody is going to forget it if they lie.

Three, what do they really stand to gain? Feeling superior for a week or two? Seems like a no-win game.

They could still be wrong, but if that's the case it's not intentionally so. Conspiracy theories are baseless and breed hostility, the reality is always far more boring.

I'm pretty sure some of them do have deals with Nintendo, at the least they have working relationships with them (getting review copies of games, etc).

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

It wasn't me being sleepy this time.

I'm genuinely confused that the idea of Nintendo hypothetically pulling an Isaac trailer from the August Nintendo Direct angers you.

Not uoset if they did it, just that people try to turn a tragic event into a point of speculation for a video game. In my eyes it's the same as harrasing Eric about whether or not he did it. It's a game, not as important as his life, or a tragic event.

Sure it could have happened, but is it important? Not at all.

 

[monadoboy]

Snapchat is always a worse quality than your phone's camera (or so I'm told)

I did a test, tried my best not to fudge up the quality of the pictures. Big one is the camera, small one snapchat, no filters or anything.

Spoiler: big image

Done in a Galaxy S7. It kinda kills a lot of the quality, even the black cloth looks duller at a simple glance.

 

[CosmicQuark]

That's just out of context, he knows that there've been certain leaks that we might've brushed off, like the Sassy Geno leak or E3 leak, and is just surprised that this certain leak is getting traction is surprising. Though, that's with what Spawn said, Nate is a whole other case.

Alright then--I'll eventually get to hearing it myself so I understand the full context. Those are my initial reactions from reading your bullet points.

 

[Garteam]

The whole "general public does not want Geno" thing is kind of a dumb argument that can be widely applied to basically any character that doesn't have a large presence: "The general public does not want Ridley", "The general public does not want King K. Rool", "The general public does not want Dark Samus". If it was just characters that the general public wanted, we'd have a roster of solely of Mario characters, Pokemon characters, and a bunch of 3rd parties, as those are the brands with the greatest public awareness.

Also, did Liam Robertson seriously try to make a political argument about Banjo-Kazooie's inclusion? That might have worked if it was the 80s and there was large economic tensions between the United States and Japan. But in a world where Nintendo has collaborated with multiple large western companies and there's basically no fear over Japan's growing influence? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Not everyday I get to use my Political Science studies in Smash speculation.

 

[JacobLeBeauOFFICIAL]

Just reading this **** fills me with anger so much, and the fact this is from "insider". Shouldn't say that comment anymore because it makes sounds like if you are from tumblr.

Liam "Mario kart 8 deluxe and Splatoon 2 are fake" Robertson

 

[Sigran101]

I really think the mysterious new item is golden sun growth psynergy. Since they added the ladder attack, and not many stages have ladders, it would make sense to have an item that makes a ladder to make this feature more useful. The item couldn't just be a giant ladder because unless you could somehow pick it up, it would basically just be a ladder spontaneously appearing on the stage which would be weird. It makes much more sense to have an item that becomes a ladder once you throw/place it. This could be done with a vine block from Mario, but this makes just as much sense. I also can't imagine another application for a sprout in a bubble.

 

[Deleted member]

Alright then--I'll eventually get to hearing it myself so I understand the full context. Those are my initial reactions from reading your bullet points.

Trust me, seeing some of the reactions from my post is astounding and makes me wonder why I should make these summaries if people are just gonna glance over it with no cohesive thought at all. You're good.

 

[Nekoo]

• Got asked about Sora @ The Game Awards. Weirdly enough moved from that ASAP from "What about Steve?"

I'm. Just. Saying.

Even better.

The question was about Banjo, Steve and Sora.

Go check it back, he says a sneaky "Sora is the big one here" before quickly going to laugh at Steve and going to the Banjo stuff.

 

[Untouch]

Liam is one of the "big leakers" with the poorest track record, I think only Stealth is worse than him.

 

[ekc]

Unless PapaGeno comes out with his source, I'm going to rest on #TeamFake as much as it hurts my heart. It's healthier for my hype to think it's fake.

 

[The DanMan051]

Just reading this **** fills me with anger so much, and the fact this is from "insider". Shouldn't say that comment anymore because it makes sounds like if you are from tumblr.

You've got stuff like the Dragon Quest series composer having the orchestrated soundtrack in the 3DS release of VIII removed for the original midi one in the international release; that's the big example of Japanese game dev prejudice off the top of my head.
Did Liam inelegantly phrase it? Yes. But it's not like it's an absolute non-factor and is something people in general have claimed about Western-created characters and their chances of getting into Smash.

Well if the game has a story mode of any kind that'll lead Zero Punctuation to review it and give it a "Flame Bait" out of "This game isn't for me and is objectively bad because of it".

(Like his stuff normally but he's got an axe to grind on Smash.)

I'm curious; what's the deal here?

Alright, I think the Smash talk is done. Here's what went down.

Notes from SpawnCast

• Surprisingly to fill in some guest gaps, Liam Robertson made an appearance. Felt weird having one info broker who got some things right with one that has a streak going on so far.
• That "wristband"? Reconfirmed that it isn't a wristband, it's an endcap.
• Spawn: "I don't get why this specific leak blew up. We've had leaks before and people just brushed it off."
• Spawn says the leak isn't correct - Not all of the characters are fake, some of them are real, but some are fake. Still strongly believes Incineroar is in the game, but remember that this isn't the main crux of Spawn's concerns.
• Nate severely doesn't believe it's real and knows characters that aren't on the banner. Nate: "Even if one character isn't in there, it's still considered fake." Multiple characters, though, by the way.
• Doesn't actually know if Banjo is in the game, feels 50/50. Hopes Isaac is in the game.
• "The internet wants Geno. The general public? Not so sure." - Spawn's general feelings on Geno, leak aside.
• The "banner" was on a 4chan leak in the end of September. Can't point out which one, though.
• There has now been so many conspiracy theories coming out now, they think it's so insane, especially the one with "getting paid by Nintendo". Spawn: "Hey yo, can we get paid for this?" lol
• Nate kinda spat some truth over everyone attacking insiders. It should go without saying, but this is seriously so stupid and sad. It shouldn't be said. It's insane how far this divide has gone. Please stop attacking people over ****ing video games.
• Liam Robertson thinks that a factor for Banjo not getting in is because "Nintendo is stubborn, conservative Japanese men and they'd bend to the white man and "muh pride"". I swear I am not ****ing joking.

Oh, and one more thing.

• Got asked about Sora @ The Game Awards. Weirdly enough moved from that ASAP from "What about Steve?"

I'm. Just. Saying.

Interesting. Very interesting.

 

[StrawHatX]

People might dismiss the "Nintendo is silencing the leak" as a conspiracy theory, but you have to admit that the relative silence from the so-called "insiders" is very strange.
Especially from Gamexplain? Are you really telling me that the guys that jump on any credible leak and overanalyze every detail would just make one ****ty three minute video that unceremoniously dismisses it because it's blurry? Then they covered the mystery sprout in a separate video, even said it might relate to Golden Sun, yet not ONCE mentioned the leak there? They also did a review of this week's Smash news, but once again, did not mention the ****ing leak. Even if they had definitive proof that it was real/fake, I feel like they would still play along for the youtube views it would bring. There is definitely something going on behind the scenes.

Exactly. These are also the same people who had a thirty minute video discussing “Blog Theory” yet they only do a three minute video on the biggest Smash leak ever.

 

[JacobLeBeauOFFICIAL]

I’m gonna say it. Ken, Inceneroar, and Steve? Probably the least hype characters possible. 2 are so predictable and, from what I’ve seen, there was no demand for Steve before Ultimate. It would be such a let down from the hype roster that was leaked to us. But they might be saying all of this as Damage Control.

It's not "steve?", It's steve

 

[Deleted member]

Even better.

The question was about Banjo, Steve and Sora.

Go check it back, he says a sneaky "Sora is the big one here" before quickly going to laugh at Steve and going to the Banjo stuff.

This actually is true. I forgot to post that.

 

[P1ZZ4CHU]

People might dismiss the "Nintendo is silencing the leak" as a conspiracy theory, but you have to admit that the relative silence from the so-called "insiders" is very strange.
Especially from Gamexplain? Are you really telling me that the guys that jump on any credible leak and overanalyze every detail would just make one ****ty three minute video that unceremoniously dismisses it because it's blurry? Then they covered the mystery sprout in a separate video, even said it might relate to Golden Sun, yet not ONCE mentioned the leak there? They also did a review of this week's Smash news, but once again, did not mention the ****ing leak. Even if they had definitive proof that it was real/fake, I feel like they would still play along for the youtube views it would bring. There is definitely something going on behind the scenes.

Or maybe they just don't want to invite harrassment?

Because that's what this is all turning into. People are attacking other people over their opinion on a video game rumor. The last thing these people want to do is put their face on that grindstone again, especially when they're semi-public figures and have just about everyone with a temper and a Twitter account hurling threats their way.

 

[StarLight42]

so basically a bunch of conjecture and opinions that don't contribute anything we don't already know to the discussion and possibly solidifies the idea that Nintendo might be on damage control through certain people, and Liam being an idiot to top it all off.

dope, i don't know why anyone would take any of this with any weight. hoping for a Direct soon.

I'm gonna absolutely love it if Incineroar was leak bait.

 

[Pyra]

I... am not particularly convinced by any of that.
*shrug*

Maybe it's right maybe it's not.
I was already thinking the leak isn't exactly correct anyway, so whatever.

Anyway, it's getting late. I fully expect you all to still be talking about the same thing in the morning.

 

[lightdrago]

Trust me, seeing some of the reactions from my post is astounding and makes me wonder why I should make these summaries if people are just gonna glance over it with no cohesive thought at all. You're good.

I appreciate your summaries man. Saves me the time.

 

[ExitWound]

It's not "steve?", It's steve

It's not steve, it's steve minecraft

 

[Wambo]

• Got asked about Sora @ The Game Awards. Weirdly enough moved from that ASAP from "What about Steve?"

What ABOUT Steve?

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

I’m gonna say it. Ken, Inceneroar, and Steve? Probably the least hype characters possible. 2 are so predictable and, from what I’ve seen, there was no demand for Steve before Ultimate. It would be such a let down from the hype roster that was leaked to us. But they might be saying all of this as Damage Control.

That's just your opinion, they would be wicked hype for me...
This is why I hate possibly fake leaks like this, it over hypes expectations

 

[KMDP]

Not uoset if they did it, just that people try to turn a tragic event into a point of speculation for a video game. In my eyes it's the same as harrasing Eric about whether or not he did it. It's a game, not as important as his life, or a tragic event.

Sure it could have happened, but is it important? Not at all.

It's not important compared to the loss of life; but, what, people are just not to discuss the possibility at any point?

Also, putting aside the Earthquake thing, Isaac being in the game is as important to some people as Ridley or K. Rool being in the game is to others.

As for me? Am I sad that Isaac's trailer might have been pulled from the August Direct? Sure, I'm only human. Do I consider it more important than the loss of life caused by the Earthquake? Absolutely not.

 

[Deleted member]

What ABOUT Steve?

I'm pretty sure he had to think of some other character that is talked about to quickly get away from his hints on Sora.

 

[ShadowGamer193]

It's not "steve?", It's steve

That was supposed to be a question like “really?” Lol sorry for confusion.

 

[SAMation]

So any news today? I’ve been at NYC for the weekend and went to Nintendo store today, haven’t gotten to check on updates as often

 

[Dayseh]

I'm glad this leak has changed alot of expectations. A week ago it was Ken/Incineroar as locks but now everybody, even the insiders, are confused on who is coming. When the next direct starts with that first character trailer everybody gonna be on the edge of their seats like as close to the screen as possible.
Also I hope the trailer takes place in a generic place like the Greninja and Bowser Jr trailer so we don't know who the character is until the reveal

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

I'm pretty sure he had to think of some other character that is talked about to quickly get away from his hints on Sora.

I kinda want Sora, just to see Disney in the copyright. That would be a sight to behold

 

[T3Z3R1]

Liam "Mario kart 8 deluxe and Splatoon 2 are fake" Robertson

Funny thing is that she actually say that we should ignore and disregard the swtich presentation leak that was posted on 4chan AND said leak was very correctly.
So much for that "insider".

 

[alemerltoucanet]

Well, since Spawn Wave (and I believe maybe others? Correct me if I'm wrong) always says there's another character other than Incineroar, I'm guessing:
Shantae, Sora, or Bandana Dee (mainly because I think he's got a really good shot).
If I were to guess one though, Shantae.

 

[Deleted member]

Another full day gone. Any new consensus? I don't even remember what pg I was last here for. This thread has been moving at light speed.

 

[Deleted member]

Liam Robertson actually wants Goku in Smash.

Do you all now know why I've been pushing Spawn Wave as the only plausible info broker?

 

[Hydrualic Hydra]

Saddest thing is that the most important thing I learned from this podcast is that Liam Robertson is an unlikeable piece of human garbage,

 

[CosmicQuark]

Trust me, seeing some of the reactions from my post is astounding and makes me wonder why I should make these summaries if people are just gonna glance over it with no cohesive thought at all. You're good.

It's good to post the summaries--if anything I should have clarified those are my initial reactions from reading it. It is annoying how these insiders rehash the same speculation we do, without providing anything substantive, and that's what I got from a reading of the points. I understand why they can't reveal what they know--but their information could be flawed (from a source from a single source that's spread), outdated or based on faulty assumptions (e.g., assuming the banner is the full list of characters), then I have to go back to "wait and see" until something substantive comes up. It's nothing against them, personally.

 

[JacobLeBeauOFFICIAL]

It's not steve, it's steve minecraft

It's not steve Minecraft, it's sans undertale








Wait

 

[BeardyBennett]

The whole "general public does not want Geno" thing is kind of a dumb argument that can be widely applied to basically any character that doesn't have a large presence: "The general public does not want Ridley", "The general public does not want King K. Rool", "The general public does not want Dark Samus". If it was just characters that the general public wanted, we'd have a roster of solely of Mario characters, Pokemon characters, and a bunch of 3rd parties, as those are the brands with the greatest public awareness.

Also, did Liam Robertson seriously try to make a political argument about Banjo-Kazooie's inclusion? That might have worked if it was the 80s and there was large economic tensions between the United States and Japan. But in a world where Nintendo has collaborated with multiple large western companies and there's basically no fear over Japan's growing influence? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Not everyday I get to use my Political Science studies in Smash speculation.

Especially considering Dark Samus is Western-made right? Let alone the whole Prime trilogy being handled by Western devs. Aren't the new DKs also Western-developed? Someone else mentioned Shovel Knight. Plus, Westerners have designed a couple official Pokemon (Mandibuzz, Golurk for example).

 

[Jess. Alakasam]

It's not "steve?", It's steve

Nope his name is canonically written with a "?" look at the official blind boxes