Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[vaanrose]

To clarify this isn't exactly right. This poster started with the leaked roster as a reference and experimented mostly with the amount of minute character movements required, only doing a bit of bg painting. They didn't make a clean background or do the kind of full recreation you're implying. And I think their points about how counterintuitive a lot of the faker's decisions would have to be still stand. If it is a fake (which I agree, is still undeniably possible) the faker elected to make their job needlessly more difficult over and over again.

Getting a clean background is actually the easiest part. Photoshop's content aware tools are magic as far as that's concerned. I have to do this kind of foreground object removal to get a clean background plate all the time. Cutting out and moving the characters is the hard part. And he cut out all the characters from the banner and placed them over the top of their new location in the leaked banner.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

Random PSA:
"Everyone is Here" means all veterans are back, nothing more.

So characters like Waluigi or you favorite not making it in don't count against this.

----​

 

[Idon]

I demand everyone take a break for page 6666 and only type in bold, red caps.

I've already got the perfect game to talk about when that happens:

And yes...
before anyone asks...
This is, in fact, where the "Featuring Dante from the Devil May Cry^TM Series" meme comes from.

 

[MainJPW]

For real.

How people handle how much they like the game's roster is their business. If their behavior becomes too toxic for discussion just have mods infract or ban them if it goes too far. That's literally what they're there for.

But otherwise the hype policing just comes off as a bunch of soccer moms.

I was kinda saying the same thing back before K. Rool was revealed. I thought he was in for sure then someone tells me to lower those expectations and I say:

Don’t tell me what to do, please.

 

[Z25]

The best thing about the leak? Even if real or fake we will never understand the wild af circumstances that led to this leaks creation and the ride and memes will never end

 

[Megadoomer]

I find it surreal that, if the Grinch leak is true, then this would be our roster:

Spoiler

If you showed that to anyone a few years ago, you'd be mocked for saying that every veteran would return, let alone half of the newcomer choices. (the idea of Metroid getting four characters, on its own, would get you labeled as a fanboy/fangirl)

Then again, the same thing could be said about Vergeben's leaks, or even the roster that has been officially confirmed as of now. No matter what the outcome of all of this is, whether we get Kencineroar, the seven characters from the Grinch leak, or something entirely different, this December is going to be crazy.

Also, we are going to have our hands full with unlocking dozens upon dozens of characters.

 

[gloop898]

Is the leak image not just tilted a bit? It's so close that claiming this guy made it himself seems odd; the space of Battlefield next to the line seems tilted compared to the official one.

If I'm understanding correctly, you're asking why the black line in the leak is curved/titled. I believe this is because it's been perspective corrected, or something along those lines. I'm not entirely sure. Omni released a photoshop file where he lined up the banners and he seemed to line them up pretty well. So I don't think the black line being curved/titled would discredit this.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is where the clips got spliced together or at least close ya?
I could see the tower slightly to the left if that is the case.

I don't remember exactly, but I don't think the picture of the characterless banner was stitched together. I believe it's all fully there in the image. I'm not 100% sure though.

 

[StarLight42]

What is everyone talking about "what things were posted" or "just another coincidence?" Sorry the messages are going fast. What's going on?

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Random PSA:
"Everyone is Here" means all veterans are back, nothing more.

So characters like Waluigi or you favorite not making it in don't count against this.

----​

Finally, someone understands

 

[Akiak]

why does everyone insist on arguing over something that cannot be proved.

team real, you will never find any damning evidence that proves it real.

team fake, you will never find any damning evidence that proves it fake.

you know why? because nintendo is the only source that can confirm or debunk the rumor. i'm not saying you can't take sides in the argument, but nobody should have the end goal of proving/debunking the leak because it is impossible as much as some would like to believe its possible.

Actually I disagree

I think the leak can be proven or disproven, it doesn't even take that much

For example, if we can find any part of the empty background banner of the leak that shows that the leaker would've needed access to the E3 background and couldn't have simply deduced what was behind the characters, then suddenly the leak is pretty much proven real (because we're all assuming that he didn't know/have access to the E3 banner)

If however this isn't the case, and everything seems to point in the direction of the leaker taking the website banners and working from there, then that'll point quite strongly in the other direction

However I don't think this would be hard proof of it being fake... 100% hard proof would be something like a contradiction between the leak and officially released material, or an obvious mistake which Nintendo wouldn't make.

Artsy Omni has made some tentative progress with regards to comparing the banners (check his twitter) although it'll take a bit of time if you want to consider every different iteration of the website's banner

I think it's actually quite peculiar that no hard proof has come through yet for either side... Usually this isn't the case

I see lots of people throwing "proof" around constantly but it always ends up being inconclusive when you look at it more closely

 

[Waluigi is not getting in]

I keep seeing around people from team real, who are so defensive when interacting with people from team fake. Almost getting offended, and accusing team fake of having a superiority complex, even.

I just want to say, that I think most people from team fake, me included, are not trying to ruin people's fun and hype. We don't enjoy bringing hopes down. But I feel like it's necessary, we just want people to not be disappointed. Honestly, I wish the leak was real. But I am putting effort in finding proof that it's fake for myself, because I don't want to get crushed if the leak turns out to be fake. But at the same time, I feel like helping others realize it's fake, can also prevent them from being incredibly disappointed. If the leak magically turns out to be real? I'd take all the "we told you so", I don't care, because I'd be happy too because I'd have Banjo & Kazooie in the game and that's all I care about.

tl;dr: People from team real, relax. We're not your enemy. We just want to save everyone from a crushing disappointment.

Now this is something that annoys me. One side acting acting like saints while the other side is the devil. Stop. Both sides are equally emotional. I hate pretending like one side needs to be called out.

 

[KMDP]

People keep talking about avoiding disappointment like it's the freaking bubonic plague...is it really THAT bad to be disappointed that an already amazing video game may not be as perfect as it could be? Is that disappointment so gut-wrenchingly awful it must be fought tooth and nail to be avoided?

This is coming from a Team Cautiously Optimistic member, btw. I'm not telling you it's wrong to feel that way, but is skirting disappointment at the unfulfillment of a theoretical situation really so bad? I'm just trying to understand that frame of mind, because to me it seems pretty harmless.

For real.

How people handle how much they like the game's roster is their business. If their behavior becomes too toxic for discussion just have mods infract or ban them if it goes too far. That's literally what they're there for.

But otherwise the hype policing just comes off as a bunch of soccer moms.

Glad some people here feel the same way I do.

 

[Dcas]

What is everyone talking about "what things were posted" or "just another coincidence?" Sorry the messages are going fast. What's going on?

I found this image on 4chan, which was deleted just some minutes after:

 

[CaptainAmerica]

You say this like you're positive Incineroar isn't in the game. I wouldn't be so sure yet.

True, we don’t know if this is final. Or fake. I’m just spitballing here. I wasn’t expecting more than 5 characters more total though, so it just feels like reaching. But the only thing I’ve proven is that Sakurai and I have very different views.

Honestly, the only characters I’m sure aren’t in are the ones in my wishlist.

 

[OurBoyRoy]

I keep seeing around people from team real, who are so defensive when interacting with people from team fake. Almost getting offended, and accusing team fake of having a superiority complex, even.

I just want to say, that I think most people from team fake, me included, are not trying to ruin people's fun and hype. We don't enjoy bringing hopes down. But I feel like it's necessary, we just want people to not be disappointed. Honestly, I wish the leak was real. But I am putting effort in finding proof that it's fake for myself, because I don't want to get crushed if the leak turns out to be fake. But at the same time, I feel like helping others realize it's fake, can also prevent them from being incredibly disappointed. If the leak magically turns out to be real? I'd take all the "we told you so", I don't care, because I'd be happy too because I'd have Banjo & Kazooie in the game and that's all I care about.

tl;dr: People from team real, relax. We're not your enemy. We just want to save everyone from a crushing disappointment.

Yes, unfortunately this is the kind of situation that brings out people's biases in the extreme. It's good you're aware of your own. If you want to find proof it's fake because you don't want to be disappointed, that's not an objective viewpoint either, but that's just being human. Banjo has been my dream character and I'm basically right there with you.

The most important thing is people admitting they might be incorrect and being civil while looking for and presenting evidence.

 

[vaanrose]

Assuming Omni lined the two pictures up correctly, which I believe he did. The position of the tower in the background doesn't line up with the black line.
So while an interesting argument it doesn't really seem to be correct.

You can see the shape of the mountain right above and to the left of tower is still present. It's lined up. Oh, and that mountain is visible in the filled banner, too.

 

[Nekoo]

And Another stance from Imran-

He seems absolutely DEAD set on it being fake, and explained the Banjo-Kazoie copyright stuff

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

And Another stance from Imran-

View attachment 172434

He seems absolutely DEAD set on it being fake, and explained the Banjo-Kazoie copyright stuff

To be fair he said ten years right?
Nuts & Bolts came out in 2008 while the original Banjo Kazooie came out in 1998...
He very well might be on to something
Not saying it means the leak is fake, but still

 

[vaanrose]

Is it just me or is Daisy's dress kind of covering a bit of Greninja's head?

View attachment 172429

You're not seeing things, Greninja's ear does appear misshapen, but this is the kind of thing easily attributable to compression.

 

[TheCJBrine]

And Another stance from Imran-

View attachment 172434

He seems absolutely DEAD set on it being fake, and explained the Banjo-Kazoie copyright stuff

This is gettin' weird with other insiders claiming at least part of it could be true.

 

[StarLight42]

Godamn, another coincidence.

Either is PURE luck, a super farfetchd fake or everything makes sense.

I'm not getting it? Some guy can just say a smash direct is coming on the 8th the same day as the grinch and then delete it right after

 

[AugustusB]

And Another stance from Imran-

View attachment 172434

He seems absolutely DEAD set on it being fake, and explained the Banjo-Kazoie copyright stuff

Dang, he seems super heated in this.

Which is understandable given the circumstances going around...

Boy we need news soon or something if we want to make it to the next direct.

 

[FalconFire93]

I was kinda saying the same thing back before K. Rool was revealed. I thought he was in for sure then someone tells me to lower those expectations and I say:

Don’t tell me what to do, please.

Exactly, I like using this for reference.

 

[Cosmic77]

And Another stance from Imran-

View attachment 172434

He seems absolutely DEAD set on it being fake, and explained the Banjo-Kazoie copyright stuff

Those comments remind me why most reliable sources are staying under the radar. Regardless of what they say or do, people get hostile.

 

[Luigi The President]

And Another stance from Imran-

View attachment 172434

He seems absolutely DEAD set on it being fake, and explained the Banjo-Kazoie copyright stuff

Imran's pissed lol

BK copyright stuff doesn't really need to be bought up lol, there's like 4 other pieces of "copyright evidence" folks can use

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Actually I disagree

I think the leak can be proven or disproven, it doesn't even take that much

For example, if we can find any part of the empty background banner of the leak that shows that the leaker would've needed access to the E3 background and couldn't have simply deduced what was behind the characters, then suddenly the leak is pretty much proven real (because we're all assuming that he didn't know/have access to the E3 banner)

If however this isn't the case, and everything seems to point in the direction of the leaker taking the website banners and working from there, then that'll point quite strongly in the other direction

However I don't think this would be hard proof of it being fake... 100% hard proof would be something like a contradiction between the leak and officially released material, or an obvious mistake which Nintendo wouldn't make.

Artsy Omni has made some tentative progress with regards to comparing the banners (check his twitter) although it'll take a bit of time if you want to consider every different iteration of the website's banner

I think it's actually quite peculiar that no hard proof has come through yet for either side... Usually this isn't the case

I see lots of people throwing "proof" around constantly but it always ends up being inconclusive when you look at it more closely

My point is that there is no way of proving this 100% real or 100% fake. You can assume that the leak wouldn't contradict officially released material, but you can't know for sure. Nintendo has the power to make changes to their games and promotional material. Unless someone in here works for Nintendo, nobody can determine what the leaks legitimacy is. You can lean towards it being real and fake, but you can't definitively say either way. People make assumptions like Nintendo wouldn't do this, they wouldn't do that, meanwhile they have no idea what goes on behind closed doors. None of us do. The reason why I'm even making this post is because people seem to be driven by a goal that they can definitively say what the leak's credibility is, meanwhile that isn't the case and is only causing unnecessary drama and conflict.

 

[TheCJBrine]

So, does this not mean anything...?

https://streamable.com/4e374

It looks like he would've actually needed the E3 banner...

 

[CrunchyCHEEZIT]

And Another stance from Imran-

View attachment 172434

He seems absolutely DEAD set on it being fake, and explained the Banjo-Kazoie copyright stuff

what a ****ing manchild, lmao.
i'm sure ill get yelled at for bullying the poor defenseless insider but seriously, anyone acting this desperate and assured that they're right is a damn joke.

 

[Heartz♥]

Imran's pissed lol

BK copyright stuff doesn't really need to be bought up lol, there's like 4 other pieces of "copyright evidence" folks can use

Although, I am pretty curious to see how he reacts if the leak is confirmed.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Imran's pissed lol

BK copyright stuff doesn't really need to be bought up lol, there's like 4 other pieces of "copyright evidence" folks can use

hate to be that guy, but Rhythm Heaven got it's trademark in 2008, when the game was about ready to hit the states... it being renewed 10 years later makes easy sense, imo...

 

[Nekoo]

Imran's pissed lol

BK copyright stuff doesn't really need to be bought up lol, there's like 4 other pieces of "copyright evidence" folks can use

Honestly every Insiders are pissed because they keep being harassed and people rubbing that leak on their face as their new Messiah while already ****ting on their reputation before it could even be proved fake or real.

Imagine living the past 48 hours with this in all website/social media you're in.

 

[mynameisBlade]

I keep seeing around people from team real, who are so defensive when interacting with people from team fake. Almost getting offended, and accusing team fake of having a superiority complex, even.

I just want to say, that I think most people from team fake, me included, are not trying to ruin people's fun and hype. We don't enjoy bringing hopes down. But I feel like it's necessary, we just want people to not be disappointed. Honestly, I wish the leak was real. But I am putting effort in finding proof that it's fake for myself, because I don't want to get crushed if the leak turns out to be fake. But at the same time, I feel like helping others realize it's fake, can also prevent them from being incredibly disappointed. If the leak magically turns out to be real? I'd take all the "we told you so", I don't care, because I'd be happy too because I'd have Banjo & Kazooie in the game and that's all I care about.

tl;dr: People from team real, relax. We're not your enemy. We just want to save everyone from a crushing disappointment.

With the way that things work in the Smash community nowadays, there is no way that everyone escapes this being mentally unscathed. The leak not being 100% proven fake YET is the main reason that Nintendo is in trouble from this real/fake leak happening in the first place. It is the most convincing, ground-breaking, non-typical and DAMN NEAR PERFECT for most IF TRUE leak that has surfaced thus far.

Whether it is proven to be real or fake, there will undoubtedly be hatred on either side. The better outcome at this point is for it to be real. Otherwise, Nintendo and especially Sakurai will get flak for no reason, other than giving us LESS than what is in the leak. It has gained so much traction, that it is now a lose lose for Sakurai if it is proven real or fake.

Basically, if its real..... no more surprises from Sakurai (except maybe still Inciniroar).... (leaks were the exact thing he was interviewed about where he told us they are really trying to avoid it happening this time around). However, if its fake... Sakurai's thought process could be the following: Haha, that's what you get for believing in that leak; or Damn, now I have to go out there and reveal how much LESS they really are getting... Maybe I should have put all those in.. **This is just my opinion btw. I want to stress that!**

What I'm getting at is THIS REALLY must suck for Sakurai either way. No escape for him. WE however, CAN plan for the worst ahead. He is mentally doomed no matter the outcome, especially if surprising us means that much to him. (assuming Grinch is real of course). Stay on your toes. Be cautious and courteous to others and their beliefs until we ALL know the truth, and whatever that truth might be.... I hope that the majority of us can find joy in things we already have and not be ungrateful about things that we don't..

 

[Luigi The President]

Honestly every Insiders are pissed because they keep being harassed and people rubbing that leak on their face as their new Messiah while already ****ting on their reputation before it could even be proved fake or real.

Imagine living the past 48 hours with this in all website/social media you're in.

Insiders can be in the wrong too my man. Not saying Imran necessarily is but it gets tiring seeing them all being smug as hell and going "Well I Can't Tell You Why...."
Makes sense? Sure, but it'd be nice to have a bit less snark, you know.

But that's just me, hey.

 

[Paperchampion23]

You can see the shape of the mountain right above and to the left of tower is still present. It's lined up. Oh, and that mountain is visible in the filled banner, too.

Damn so it might pan out then?

 

[xjthegulpin]

Person 1: Well mannered debate with Person 2 on why it could be fake
Person 2: Well mannered debate with Person 1 on why it could be real
Person 3: “omgggg this community is so toxxxiiccc this is why I HATE our community because we can’t stop FIGHTINGGGG”

Anyways how was y’alls day? Did y’all try the chicken? I thought it was lovely.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I don't understand the insiders, though.

Is it not possible that their information could not be final as they believed...?

 

[Chandeelure]

Hey guys, did you finally find Bandana Dee in the clouds?

 

[StarLight42]

Yikes. Imran is really banking on this being a fake. papagenos

 

[Luigifan18]

The Ninten-jas take no prisoners.

Dude I feel bad if this guy's life was destroyed by some bloke.

"Did you leak the roster?"
"No, of course I didn't! *deletes account for seeking employment*"

I can imagine how awkward all of Eric's future job interviews are going to be.

"So Mr. Brichard, tell me about a time where you experienced hardship in your job and how you overcame it?"

"I leaked the Smash Bros Ultimate roster and deleted my LinkedIn".

And Omni did show a curious point against the Leak... Suprising. Go ahead and look at the whole thread.

How to definitively prove whether or not the background in the leak was done by painting out the characters: take all known versions of the banner and erase the characters, like so: pic.twitter.com/ld6NhCuaky

— Omni Jacala @☁️ (@artsyomni) October 26, 2018

Basically, he explained how it could have been done, and how, by PURE COINCIDENCE, the only part that have error between all Battlefield version/E3 empty version and the Leak one are the spots where the characters's are still hiding stuff between version, and where the leaker would have to guess if this is fake.

I am now envisioning some neckbeard sitting in a dimly-lit lair, twirling a handlebar mustache, and muttering "Ah, they are starting to see through my ruse. No matter, the damage is done. The life of my hated archrival, Eric Brichard, is permanently ruined!!! MUAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!"

 

[Union of Darkness]

And Another stance from Imran-

View attachment 172434

He seems absolutely DEAD set on it being fake, and explained the Banjo-Kazoie copyright stuff

I'm inclined to agree on the copyright issue since he probably knows more about it than us.