Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Nekoo]

Why do people believe these weird "source" tweets? Sources can be lying. Sources maybe don't know anything. Sources maybe ... leak false information because Nintendo asked so.

Because said source have no affiliation to Nintendo at all.
He's a KHInsider and Persona Central Translator and Writer. Who happens to have source in games there and there (after looking back, he had stuff about DMC5 and other **** too)
For once an Insiders decide to come clean after so many people complain about the others just dismissing the tweet. That's why we are giving him our attention for now

 

[Deleted member]

https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSw...a_summary_of_everything_from_the_smash_leaks/
Came across this on Reddit and under evidence against is this

iirc, the one on the left was made after the leak, lol.

 

[Ring-a-Sheep]

Why do people believe these weird "source" tweets? Sources can be lying. Sources maybe don't know anything. Sources maybe ... leak false information because Nintendo asked so.

Pretty sure the mystic dude is credible, but Nekoo probably knows more than me

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I think I realised one fundamental reason why some folks want the leak disproved so badly: Banjo-Kazooie.

For some time, thanks to "insiders", people ended up believing that Steve would be in the game, despite the fact that only some sort of Minecraft content has been confirmed (could be a stage, a trophy, or even just a song). This leak showing B-K front and center doesn't fit their narrative of Steve getting in before they do, so they try to deny it as hard as possible.

@Noipoi became our new "Brawl in the Family"

I think...

Did Noipoi start drawing a Smash webcomic?

 

[Zinith]

Did Noipoi start drawing a Smash webcomic?

He made a comic involving Pac-Man, Mr. Game & Watch and Inklings. Then he made a DeviantArt account.

Then tehponycorn made the "Brawl in the Family" compliment

 

[Deleted member]

You've got the wrong box. The box the theory is based off of won't release until the game does, and we'll probably know the entire roster by then.

Aw damn I just want box theory to die already

 

[Mehdow]

And what about the "Heroes vs Villains"? I mean, they added Ridley and K.Rool in a "good > bad > good > bad" trend,...but now we have just "good" characters.... All this only can lead to a single question:

Spoiler: spoiler

where is my boi Skull Kid?

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

It would actually cover the elements that Isaac probably wouldn't, Earth, Wind & Fire Water, Wind and Fire.

That said, I think it's unlikely. It'd be a fair amount of work for an item that isn't a Poke ball or AT.

Well the weird situation here is if we go off the Grinch leak Isaac is using Growth. However that is mixing leaks which isn't always smart.

I love the idea of it being different spells, at least 3-4. Specifically because I don't understand why we would get two sprout based items (it's very similar to the healing field and could cause confusion for new users). If the sprout isn't the "main" spell and instead is just one that can show up it makes more sense.

Now what this means for what the item could do, I have no idea lol.

 

[Ring-a-Sheep]

And what about the "Heroes vs Villains"? I mean, they added Ridley and K.Rool in a "good > bad > good > bad",...but now we have just "good" characters.... All this only can lead to a single question:

Spoiler: spoiler

where is my boi Skull Kid?

His fate as mach rider's new bike has been sealed, it may be sad but theres nothing we can do

 

[CosmicQuark]

I think I realised one fundamental reason why some folks want the leak disproved so badly: Banjo-Kazooie.

For some time, thanks to "insiders", people ended up believing that Steve would be in the game, despite the fact that only some sort of Minecraft content has been confirmed (could be a stage, a trophy, or even just a song). This leak showing B-K front and center doesn't fit their narrative of Steve getting in before they do, so they try to deny it as hard as possible.



Did Noipoi start drawing a Smash webcomic?

I think there's many reasons for people to doubt this leak, including myself even though I'm leaning on real. Too many characters, blurry and far away enough to hide bigger problem areas, the person noted in the leak haven't worked for the company we know has ties to Bandai Namco in 2 years (though works for a very similar company, not known to be associated with games). And I feel like there are a lot of holes, whether you believe it's real or fake, which is not surprising it's as controversial as it is. And, so, I say it's likely, I find the evidence for it compelling, but nothing conclusive.

 

[The Snitch Studio]

And what about the "Heroes vs Villains"? I mean, they added Ridley and K.Rool in a "good > bad > good > bad",...but now we have just "good" characters.... All this only can lead to a single question:

Spoiler: spoiler

w h e r e i s s k u l l k i d ?

Smash Ultimate never had a Heroes VS Villan theme, its because that all the heroes have been chosen, Sakurai is looking at the back catalogue and is possiblely adding more Villains.

 

[Antimatter042]

You know...I was thinking and I realized something with Mystic's Tweet

There was a problem fetching the tweet

"But the poster is off and isn't what we've seen"

I was thinking...could it be possible that Nintendo send a Mural design that isn't 100% complete to the Design company, for them to make the items, until production where they would give the real mural, JUST to be sure that if X group of Characters is leaked (here, the 7 one) it's the fault of X source (here the design production)

And that the Insiders have seen Another design of the mural with others Characters and Incineroar that could, for Exemple be planned for an early date? For Exemple next direct?

Remember. He did say that the leaked Mural have Characters that are actually in but isn't what he saw

Honestly as a largely Team Real proponent right now, I'm really doubting anymore characters than what we're currently seeing at least for the base roster. This line of thinking reminds me too much of people thinking the ESRB leak still had some locked characters on the screen because Mewtwo wasn't there (something I was guilty of at the time). Nintendo probably put out fake fighter names and I do believe Incineroar was one of them, but I can't get my head around the ridiculous roundabout plan Nintendo would've had of sending an incomplete banner only to send the finished one later. What would be their endgame with this strategy? If it's preventing someone getting leaked then they've done a less than stellar job of that and should've just sent the Isabelle one. If they're protecting someone else's IP from being leaked (like Disney for example if Sora were to be involved) then sending a mockup without Shadow, Ken or Geno would've been the courteous thing to do. Let's not go into conspiracy theories with this.

tl;dr Even on Team Real, expecting more than the banner's lot as a base roster is just wishful thinking right now.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

And what about the "Heroes vs Villains"? I mean, they added Ridley and K.Rool in a "good > bad > good > bad" trend,...but now we have just "good" characters.... All this only can lead to a single question:

Spoiler: spoiler

where is my boi Skull Kid?

Meh. Would rather have Medusa anyway, for more villain franchise variety.

 

[Zinith]

And what about the "Heroes vs Villains"? I mean, they added Ridley and K.Rool in a "good > bad > good > bad" trend,...but now we have just "good" characters.... All this only can lead to a single question:

Spoiler: spoiler

where is my boi Skull Kid?

The lack of that theme hurts my boi's franchise more because now he's now the only OG 8 without an exclusive villain/rival in the roster...

 

[Nekoo]

Honestly as a largely Team Real proponent right now, I'm really doubting anymore characters than what we're currently seeing at least for the base roster. This line of thinking reminds me too much of people thinking the ESRB leak still had some locked characters on the screen because Mewtwo wasn't there (something I was guilty of at the time). Nintendo probably put out fake fighter names and I do believe Incineroar was one of them, but I can't get my head around the ridiculous roundabout plan Nintendo would've had of sending an incomplete banner only to send the finished one later. What would be their endgame with this strategy? If it's preventing someone getting leaked then they've done a less than stellar job of that and should've just sent the Isabelle one. If they're protecting someone else's IP from being leaked (like Disney for example if Sora were to be involved) then sending a mockup without Shadow, Ken or Geno would've been the courteous thing to do. Let's not go into conspiracy theories with this.

tl;dr Even on Team Real, expecting more than the banner's lot as a base roster is just wishful thinking right now.

That is something I agree with completely. But the fact that he do say "Isn't what we've seen" makes me think insiders do have a VISUAL proof that Incineroar is here. That's what makes me confused.

He could have said it differently, but he clearly say that the banner doesn't Match-up what the insiders saw.

 

[Zinith]

The "Insiders" term almost comes off as a political talking point, like "Deep State"

 

[I_DON'T_KNOW_YOU!]

The only visual leaks that have not been disproven 100% are-

and

And now we have "insiders" claiming Incineroar is still in. The explanation(s) being either the character is DLC or the banner is incomplete.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Smash Ultimate never had a Heroes VS Villan theme, its because that all the heroes have been chosen, Sakurai is looking at the back catalogue and is possiblely adding more Villains.

Exactly. When you start running out of big name protags, you start to explore other areas.

The lack of that theme hurts my boi's franchise more because now he's now the only OG 8 without an exclusive villain/rival in the roster...

Make that OG 12, Ness and Falcon still have bupkis there.

 

[MSmariosonic]

At least Ken's in either way

 

[CosmicQuark]

Just finished watching Nintendo Life's video. Like--what?! I was pretty much with him, even though his initial criticisms were "too perfect" (uh huh), but then he uttered the phrase "even I could do this."

No, these people very well couldn't. Obviously, it's possible someone, of the seven billion people in the world, could make this leak as good as it is, which is why it's compelling but not conclusive. But nobody saying they could, actually could--it's completely dismissing the complexity and effort that was involved in order to fake something of this magnitude. I believe P Paperchampion23 had a really good post detailing all the requirements (as others have). There are many reasons this could have been faked as well, but the "I could make that" meme is the most baffling (I'll let folks like Artsy Omni get a pass on that one, though "within an hour" strains credulity).

 

[Game2018]

On the subject of Mach Rider... There's this.
Warning: Slightly NSFW.
https://imgtc.com/i/Bg7Cys6.jpg

No one knows where this is from, but there's an official Nintendo trademark down below if you look carefully, so it's pretty much official. I think this confirms Mach Rider is indeed female?

Regardless, do you want him to be male or female in this game?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

On the subject of Mach Rider... There's this.
Warning: Slightly NSFW.
https://imgtc.com/i/Bg7Cys6.jpg

No one knows where this is from, but there's an official Nintendo trademark down below if you look carefully, so it's pretty much official. I think this confirms Mach Rider is indeed female?

Regardless, do you want him to be male or female in this game?

Doesn't matter which, as long as they use actual pronouns that don't refer to Mach Rider as "they".

 

[-crump-]

I just woke up (unfortunately), anything I missed over the last 8-ish hours?

We’re still talking about the Grinch leak so I assume it’s still kicking to some extent...

 

[CantGetRidOfTheRidley]

And now we have "insiders" claiming Incineroar is still in. The explanation(s) being either the character is DLC or the banner is incomplete.

I think the most likely is "insiders" are either fed false information (canary), or trying to make a guess that (was) perceived as safe and sticking with it.

 

[Nap_]

You know...I was thinking and I realized something with Mystic's Tweet

There was a problem fetching the tweet

"But the poster seems off and isn't what we've seen"

I was thinking...could it be possible that Nintendo send a Mural design that isn't 100% complete to the Design company, for them to make the items, until production where they would give the real mural, JUST to be sure that if X group of Characters is leaked (here, the 7 one) it's the fault of X source (here the design production)

And that the Insiders have seen Another design of the mural with others Characters and Incineroar that could, for Exemple be planned for an early date? For Exemple next direct?

Remember. He did say that the leaked Mural have Characters that are actually in but isn't what he saw

If it's true (Mark "IF") then the question is WHEN the sources saw such thing. If they saw it long ago then it could be that Incineoar or whoever just get cut for the base game and then is like the Smash 4 leak with old news. I won't get surprised if in the final steps of the game development someone is left for DLC or something like that.
But at this point I´m feeling that any theory about this leak, in a way or another, is pure mental gymnastics, a ton of faith is needed. It must be a easy answer around there but I can't see it right now, this is too much with the info that we know. It's hard to believe that a lekaer (or a team) is the greatest criminal mastermind dropping a lot of baits and false clues, with access to a pro print service, usurping a French man identity, an advanced photoshop user and I don't know what else. Or to be proven true, all the insiders must be wrong with false or outdated info, believing in a pure bomb for the final reveals, Incineroar or even more fighters getting cut... It's insane. ****, the box theory was easier. At least I'm enjoying this leak, it's full of colors.

 

[Saelind Genesis]

Here's my two cents on what the **** is going on and could explain everything.

The Grinch leak is real and Incineroar and Sora are the very first DLC characters that are in early production. Incineroar was decided earlier on to not be part of the base roster and because of that, it was leaked that he would be in the game so that's making people confused.

I can also confirm that Decidueye is scientifically better than Incineroar in every single possible way.

 

[The Snitch Studio]

Guys, I think I found a solid reason why people believe this leak is real...and it's pretty funny...

This proves one of my theories, people believe this leak because they have fan wanted characters, some don't even provide solid evidence in these comments, it's just 'If it hadn't had Shadow I'd think it would be fake', now that is kinda sad.

If this leak had Tails, I still wouldn't believe. At least that theory has been Comfirmed.

I'm just going to put this here...

 

[Ring-a-Sheep]

Guys, I think I found a solid reason why people believe this leak is real...and it's pretty funny...

View attachment 172246
This proves one of my theories, people believe this leak because they have fan wanted characters, some don't even provide solid evidence in these comments, it's just 'If it hadn't had Shadow I'd think it would be fake', now that is kinda sad.

If this leak had Tails, I still wouldn't believe. At least that theory has been Comfirmed.

I'm just going to put this here...

View attachment 172247

I didn't know some rando's youtube comments mattered so much

 

[SmashingXan2]

Guys, I think I found a solid reason why people believe this leak is real...and it's pretty funny...

View attachment 172246
This proves one of my theories, people believe this leak because they have fan wanted characters, some don't even provide solid evidence in these comments, it's just 'If it hadn't had Shadow I'd think it would be fake', now that is kinda sad.

If this leak had Tails, I still wouldn't believe. At least that theory has been Comfirmed.

I'm just going to put this here...

View attachment 172247

Yes, that's the OOONNNNLLLLYYY reason people believe it. Not the evidence seen on this thread. Nope, this one random YouTube comment has provided the sole reason. Congrats Sherlock

 

[The Snitch Studio]

I didn't know some rando's youtube comments mattered so much

Its better looking at the whole scale of the community instead of the minority. I've seen plenty of people on Twitter say the same thing,

Yes, that's the OOONNNNLLLLYYY reason people believe it. Not the evidence seen on this thread. Nope, this one random YouTube comment has provided the sole reason. Congrats Sherlock

I meant some, sorry if It looked like it meant everyone as a whole. Whoops

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Its better looking at the whole scale of the community instead of the minority. I've seen plenty of people on Twitter say the same thing,

I meant some, sorry if It looked like it meant everyone as a whole. Whoops

Okay, but YouTube comments tend to be, um, not smart. Just throwing that out here.

 

[Saelind Genesis]

Guys, I think I found a solid reason why people believe this leak is real...and it's pretty funny...

View attachment 172246
This proves one of my theories, people believe this leak because they have fan wanted characters, some don't even provide solid evidence in these comments, it's just 'If it hadn't had Shadow I'd think it would be fake', now that is kinda sad.

If this leak had Tails, I still wouldn't believe. At least that theory has been Comfirmed.

I'm just going to put this here...

View attachment 172247

Yeah, uh... a lot of people also seem to deny the leak because it seems too good to be true.

So no. That is not a good point. Like. At all.

 

[praline]

On the subject of Mach Rider... There's this.
Warning: Slightly NSFW.
https://imgtc.com/i/Bg7Cys6.jpg

No one knows where this is from, but there's an official Nintendo trademark down below if you look carefully, so it's pretty much official. I think this confirms Mach Rider is indeed female?

Regardless, do you want him to be male or female in this game?

Why would people not want another badass female?

 

[ExitWound]

oh my god guys, a reputable source just sent me this screenshot of the current cs

grinch leak confirmed

 

[Chrollo.]

Mystic’s tweet is interesting. It seems like nobody actually knows what the **** is going on (Which was honestly obvious). I wonder if other insiders also had other sources that its real but they’re sticking to their guns about Incineroar. I found it interesting too that Verge never outright shot the leak down either like he has done with past “leaks”, he just said it conflicts with his information. Spawn Wave also went from shooting it down to being unsure within a few hours. I wouldn’t be surprised if Nintendo sent the sentinels out to try to clean this up which is why everybody is so confused, but it seems like visual evidence has been sent around the insiders that seems to fall some place in the middle of Incineroar and the Mural.

 

[Zinith]

oh my god guys, a reputable source just sent me this screenshot of the current cs

grinch leak confirmed

R.I.P. Random

F

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

You know...I was thinking and I realized something with Mystic's Tweet

There was a problem fetching the tweet

"But the poster seems off and isn't what we've seen"

I was thinking...could it be possible that Nintendo send a Mural design that isn't 100% complete to the Design company, for them to make the items, until production where they would give the real mural, JUST to be sure that if X group of Characters is leaked (here, the 7 one) it's the fault of X source (here the design production)

And that the Insiders have seen Another design of the mural with others Characters and Incineroar that could, for Exemple be planned for an early date? For Exemple next direct?

Remember. He did say that the leaked Mural have Characters that are actually in but isn't what he saw

Hmmm... Either that, or the mural is half faked....
I think it's likely that Geno, Isaac, Ken, and Chorus Kids are in...
Just not so sure about the others...

 

[SoccerStar9001]

So any progress on Team Real vs Team Fake?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Why would people not want another badass female?

The thing is that, unlike Samus, MR was never properly established as being strictly female for long. Besides, people have an easier time expecting a Mad Max-esque character.

 

[Robertman2]

I'd ognore Mystic. They're very much a broken clock is right twice a day leaker. Still waiting on that W101 Switch port they promised at E3