Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[WolfCypher]

Uh, I'm a bit bored so I'll expand on @drag0nscythe's idea. List your top 5 favorite and least favorite characters in SSBU. Explanations are fine, but not needed.

Favorite:

Least Favorite: (this all could change)

What about you?

Fav


No

 

[Diem]

One thing that sticks out to me about this is that the post just sort of...showed up in a thread about another "leak." On the eve of E3, I decided to dig through GameFAQs out of boredom and found a leak discussion thread. I dismissed it as fake and continued to read further into the thread, at which point Loz18 appeared and mentioned, among other things, Zelda's ALBW design. It's like he decided to post in the thread just to be like "uh, no, I'm right, look at me." We all know he went off the deep end after E3 and I realize that this doesn't prove anything, but I could totally foresee someone wanting similar attention and spilling all of his knowledge in a thread about a completely separate leak.

Actually, now that I think about it, I have to wonder how this 4chan poster obtained so much secret information at once. He claims to know of not only the roster, but also bosses and characters who got cut in the middle of development. Exactly how many people would be privy to that information? Very few, I'd assume. Papagenos' source apparently heard whispers of all these characters, but the sheer amount of info here gives me pause.

I mean, the only consistently accurate leaker so far has been Vergeben, and even he is limited in what information his sources have access to. He called all the E3 information, plus Simon and Isabelle, but didn't know about anything else in the August Direct.

So any leak that spills out every single character should give people pause. It's clearly a very well-guarded secret, and the lengths that people will go to these days in order to make fake leaks and stuff are extraordinary.

Anyone remember the guy that spent $900 on a fake website promoting the reveal of Fallout 4, with attention to such details as the location of the server where the site was hosted and parts of the site's HTML code?

 

[MrHomelessHobo]

Not the castle behind Zelda. That one is on the leak. The castle behind Bowser. That one isn't visible in any of the different banners, because Bowser and Ike always cover it up completely. And it's missing on the leak.

That's enough to call this entire leak fake, shame.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Funny that the only scrapped character found in Smash for Wii U, was a Rhythm Heaven one (with the filename called Rhythm)

Weren't Alph (Who became a costume), Chrom, Heihachi, Ice Climbers and Takamaru also not intended?

 

[Trisepta]

I think a point that has gone unmentioned a lot is that, as far as I can tell, the castle in the background is plainly visible in multiple iterations of the background. You see see it behind Zelda. Now, let's say a leaker faked this by taking existing mural art - how would he even miss it?

I'm not saying this does anything one way or the other since this is purely speculative, but it'd be a huge mistake to miss existing material and not even attempt to fake what we don't see.

My guess would be that they only used the current banner for reference and didn't bother to look at past iterations of it. This would also explain that smudgy cloud above Bayonetta.

 

[ZephyrZ]

If the background had details taken out to make it easier to print, wouldn't they make less detailed versions of the character portraits to? That's where most of the image's complexity comes from after all.

 

[alemerltoucanet]

Who said it was a sprout, maybe it's a Stray Fairy
I'm obviously joking

Nah, it's an Ender Pearl from Minecraft.

 

[Das Koopa]

Not the castle behind Zelda. That one is on the leak. The castle behind Bowser. That one isn't visible in any of the different banners, because Bowser and Ike always cover it up completely. And it's missing on the leak.

Okay, so, I think I understand what you're referring to - there's two castles in the middle of the image. The larger one to the left obscured by Bowser/Ike is not present in the leak, but there's another one more rightward that's simply hard to see THAT IS on the leak, and thus is consistent with what we've seen on the non-E3 murals?

 

[staindgrey]

Whether the banner leak is real or fake. I'm certain Isaac's in due to the item.

Some may point out to the Lip item yes but that item has been in Smash since Melee whereas its first appearing in this game. That and Nintendo renewed the Golden Sun franchise. Coincidence?

Actually, it very well could be. The way these trademarks work, you have to renew them every few years (depending on what country, etc.) to keep them. While, in some cases, a company is totally fine with dropping one because they see no future benefit to keeping it (RIP Custom Robo), in most cases, the company in question considers the cost of the trademark worth it even if they aren't actively using it. Just in case they want to use it in the future.

If Golden Sun's renewal due date happened to be at the same time as Smash's speculation cycle, that is actually a total coincidence.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Not the castle behind Zelda. That one is on the leak. The castle behind Bowser. That one isn't visible in any of the different banners, because Bowser and Ike always cover it up completely. And it's missing on the leak.

This castle does kinda make me feel fake, because that is something someone who probably sat down and looked at the murals didn't even think to add.

 

[Chiroz]

I think a point that has gone unmentioned a lot is that, as far as I can tell, the castle in the background is plainly visible in multiple iterations of the background. You see see it behind Zelda. Now, let's say a leaker faked this by taking existing mural art - how would he even miss it?

I'm not saying this does anything one way or the other since this is purely speculative, but it'd be a huge mistake to miss existing material and not even attempt to fake what we don't see.

That castle could be there in the leak actually. That castle is used by those who are trying to defend the leak that say it wasn't in one of the official versions (but it was proven it was in all of the official versions, just that Zelda moved). It's too blurry to tell whether that castle is in the leak or not. There's another castle though that was on an island behind Bowser and was never viewable. That castle is not there, in fact that entire island is non-existent and even the waterfall has a very different shape on that spot.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Actually, it very well could be. The way these trademarks work, you have to renew them every few years (depending on what country, etc.) to keep them. While, in some cases, a company is totally fine with dropping one because they see no future benefit to keeping it (RIP Custom Robo), in most cases, the company in question considers the cost of the trademark worth it even if they aren't actively using it. Just in case they want to use it in the future.

If Golden Sun's renewal due date happened to be at the same time as Smash's speculation cycle, that is actually a total coincidence.

I'm still confident Isaac's in. The inclusion of that item had increased his chances honestly.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Uh, I'm a bit bored so I'll expand on @drag0nscythe's idea. List your top 5 favorite and least favorite characters in SSBU. Explanations are fine, but not needed.

Favorite:

Least Favorite: (this all could change)

What about you?

Most Favorites: / and /
Least Favorites: (nightmare)(can’t use)(>)(petty due to wanting Lyn and Celica) and (here due to not knowing **** about him)

 

[Paperchampion23]

I think a point that has gone unmentioned a lot is that, as far as I can tell, the castle in the background is plainly visible in multiple iterations of the background. You see see it behind Zelda. Now, let's say a leaker faked this by taking existing mural art - how would he even miss it?

I'm not saying this does anything one way or the other since this is purely speculative, but it'd be a huge mistake to miss existing material and not even attempt to fake what we don't see.

100% this.
This exactly is my point. If fake, the leaker has been so observant and attentive to detail with how they placed characters, fitting everything nicely and even adding art to characters who have been entirely shifted to reveal new portions of art they never had. Yet, they miss a huge ass castle behind Zelda that is plainly visible?

Not buying the fake story. The background is different because it is. Just like the ESRB had spelling errors in it. It just did.

 

[Tyrathius]

Actually, it very well could be. The way these trademarks work, you have to renew them every few years (depending on what country, etc.) to keep them. While, in some cases, a company is totally fine with dropping one because they see no future benefit to keeping it (RIP Custom Robo), in most cases, the company in question considers the cost of the trademark worth it even if they aren't actively using it. Just in case they want to use it in the future.

If Golden Sun's renewal due date happened to be at the same time as Smash's speculation cycle, that is actually a total coincidence.

The Golden Sun trademark actually happened a few years early though, and included some hardware (Switch stuff) not in previous versions. That's why people think it might have merit.

Granted, it could still be a coincidence.

 

[FixedFun]

Weren't Alph (Who became a costume), Chrom, Heihachi, Ice Climbers and Takamaru also not intended?

Only 'Rhythm' appears as a concrete file.

 

[Mutsukki]

Yes, thats exactly what I'm talking about. The "smear" is different in both the blank background and the actual character banner in the leak. The fact that it didn't change, but changed in the leak, and is completely visible is my entire point. Its not hidden behind a character. It was changed even though many other clouds are the same to a T, yet this particular one was changed.

It could be a smear though, as for many other things on the leak. Its a 100p poor image lol.


Mother****ing leaker also intentionally leaked Smash 4. Grinch/Snapchat leak was not intentional allegedly.

Mother****ing leaker got it from someone else who did not wish to leak it either, as it is with most of these things

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Only 'Rhythm' appears as a concrete file.

Ah gotcha.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I'm still confident Isaac's in. The inclusion of that item had increased his chances honestly.

It is looking good for Isaac, but let's not be too hasty. We aren't even certain it's supposed to be a Golden Sun item yet.

 

[staindgrey]

I'm still confident Isaac's in. The inclusion of that item had increased his chances honestly.

Oh, I didn't mean that as "Isaac's not in". I don't have a horse in this race. I never beat the original Golden Sun and can't remember **** about it.

I'm just saying that the renewal of their Golden Sun trademark likely has absolutely nothing to do with Isaac being a character in this game. Companies protect their IPs all the time even when they're not using them.

 

[UberPyro64]

I think it's become apparent that Banjo-Kazooie, Geno and Isaac are the new Big Three.

 

[PLATINUM7]

One thing that sticks out to me about this is that the post just sort of...showed up in a thread about another "leak." On the eve of E3, I decided to dig through GameFAQs out of boredom and found a leak discussion thread. I dismissed it as fake and continued to read further into the thread, at which point Loz18 appeared and mentioned, among other things, Zelda's ALBW design. It's like he decided to post in the thread just to be like "uh, no, I'm right, look at me." We all know he went off the deep end after E3 and I realize that this doesn't prove anything, but I could totally foresee someone wanting similar attention and spilling all of his knowledge in a thread about a completely separate leak.

Actually, now that I think about it, I have to wonder how this 4chan poster obtained so much secret information at once. He claims to know of not only the roster, but also bosses and characters who got cut in the middle of development. Exactly how many people would be privy to that information? Very few, I'd assume. Papagenos' source apparently heard whispers of all these characters, but the sheer amount of info here gives me pause.

Part of that is what I borught up when I first found it. I get really sceptical when people claim to know cut characters. A big part of contention back when Gematsu leak was a thing was there being debate about cutting Ness or Lucas.

Weirdly enough, there's some merit to the cuts mentioned. DK got a big boost in representation, MH does have content and had Mii costumes last game. Ray 01 could even be the reason for Sakurai buying the model and not necessarily Mach Rider.

On the other hand, I really have to wonder how likely a Custom Robo character would have been in the first place. Never really saw demand for one and the series seems dead with Nintendo not renewing the trademark.

 

[osby]

I think it's become apparent that Banjo-Kazooie, Geno and Isaac are the new Big Three.

I know he's deconfirmed (disconfirmed?), but nobody mentions Waluigi? Nice.

 

[perfectchaos83]

100% this.
This exactly is my point. If fake, the leaker has been so observant and attentive to detail with how they placed characters, fitting everything nicely and even adding art to characters who have been entirely shifted to reveal new portions of art they never had. Yet, they miss a huge *** castle behind Zelda that is plainly visible?

Not buying the fake story. The background is different because it is. Just like the ESRB had spelling errors in it. It just did.

You might be missing something here... Adding art to characters isn't gonna be hard, hell, with the quality the leak is in it doesn't even have to be good looking. The fact that that castle is missing is a huge red flag because absolutely nobody knew it was there until after the leak came out.

 

[staindgrey]

The Golden Sun trademark actually happened a few years early though, and included some hardware (Switch stuff) not in previous versions. That's why people think it might have merit.

Granted, it could still be a coincidence.

Yeah, I'm aware. I remember reading the article about it.

Trademark language is updated every time to reflect current and future possibilities. It's possible that Nintendo had a team toying with the idea of a Golden Sun sequel on Switch. It's possible they gave Sakurai the go-ahead to put him in Smash and wanted to update their trademark's language. It's also possible that the trademark was up, and when they sicked their lawyers on it, said lawyers inserted new language pertaining to Nintendo's current products to future-proof it.

I'm just saying it basically proves Isaac's in this game about as much as a trademark renewal for Dillon's Rolling Western.

 

[FixedFun]

Ah gotcha.

For curiosity, even Japanese websites believe that scrapped character is コーラスメン (Chorus Men) from Rhythm Tengoku Gold (DS), as it's one of those surprise characters no one expected.
And well, it's not like Ko Takeuchi's (art director of the Rhythm Heaven series) avatar doesn't resemble them. They are the Goombas of the RH series (see Play-Yan and Marshal)

 

[Chrono.]

I just gotta wonder, why Mach Rider when Excitebike is right there?

I know he's been a bit of a dark horse for years now, but he sticks out to me as a NES character just for the sake of having a NES character.

But I guess you could say the same for Ice Climbers at the time of Melee.

 

[CosmicQuark]

I think it's become apparent that Banjo-Kazooie, Geno and Isaac are the new Big Three.

Indeed. Banjo & Kazooie and Geno have been wanted since Melee, and are still very popular among the polls. Golden Sun came too close to Melee, but Isaac has certainly been wanted since before Brawl, and Isaac's been in the top 3 of many recent polls. I also think all three present a lot of unique movement options, and if all three are in the game along with Ridley and K Rool it would be awesome.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I just gotta wonder, why Mach Rider when Excitebike is right there?

I know he's been a bit of a dark horse for years now, but he sticks out to me as a NES character just for the sake of having a NES character.

But I guess you could say the same for Ice Climbers at the time of Melee.

I would assume is because Sakurai once considered Mach Rider for Melee.

 

[FixedFun]

I just gotta wonder, why Mach Rider when Excitebike is right there?

I know he's been a bit of a dark horse for years now, but he sticks out to me as a NES character just for the sake of having a NES character.

But I guess you could say the same for Ice Climbers at the time of Melee.

I'd assume Mach Rider has an orange alt color resembling the Excitebiker.

 

[Mutsukki]

I think it's become apparent that Banjo-Kazooie, Geno and Isaac are the new Big Three.

That's... kinda sad actually. I wouldn't put it past Sakurai being disheartened when he pulled basically all the stops for this one and put out the big favorites.

Of course, being an experienced developer he knows people will only crave more, but, like... seems like nothing's ever enough

 

[Idon]

I just gotta wonder, why Mach Rider when Excitebike is right there?

I know he's been a bit of a dark horse for years now, but he sticks out to me as a NES character just for the sake of having a NES character.

But I guess you could say the same for Ice Climbers at the time of Melee.

Because he's an echo fighter.

Okay, real talk, I'm going to guess it's because his aesthetic is a bit more appealing to a general audience having a gun with a biker aesthetic while Excite Biker is just a regular Motocrosser which, while unique, is less memorable.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I just gotta wonder, why Mach Rider when Excitebike is right there?

I know he's been a bit of a dark horse for years now, but he sticks out to me as a NES character just for the sake of having a NES character.

But I guess you could say the same for Ice Climbers at the time of Melee.

It might be bcause Sakurai wanted more women on the roster.

 

[Z25]

Yes, thats exactly what I'm talking about. The "smear" is different in both the blank background and the actual character banner in the leak. The fact that it didn't change, but changed in the leak, and is completely visible is my entire point. Its not hidden behind a character. It was changed even though many other clouds are the same to a T, yet this particular one was changed.

It could be a smear though, as for many other things on the leak. Its a 100p poor image lol.


Mother****ing leaker also intentionally leaked Smash 4. Grinch/Snapchat leak was not intentional allegedly.

the Snapchat wasn’t, but the chadondorf leak was. That’s what they where talking about. It has everyone in the grinch leak but came out a month ago.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I got a gut feeling Mach Rider might be an clone or play similar to Captain Falcon. Something about him or her gives me that vibe...

 

[Enchess]

I'm team real, and that lack of Castle is a pretty strong strike against the leak.

I just think there are explanations for it that are simpler to explain than some of the oddities if fake (Grinch still gets me, as does the similarities to APC videos that make me think if fake then the Marina connection wasn't intended, so why APC?)

 

[CosmicQuark]

I'd assume Mach Rider has an orange alt color resembling the Excitebiker.

I hadn't thought about that, but that would be amazing actually. I feel like Mach Rider presents more moveset possibilities, especially with the gun (which was potentially used as inspiration in that post by Sakurai). I believe his reasoning for not including Mach Rider back in Melee was he didn't know how to incorporate the bike--I think he's definitely capable of that now. It's why while I never considered Mach Rider a possibility, in hindsight, it makes perfect sense.

 

[Chrono.]

Because he's an echo fighter.

Okay, real talk, I'm going to guess it's because his aesthetic is a bit more appealing to a general audience having a gun with a biker aesthetic while Excite Biker is just a regular Motocrosser which, while unique, is less memorable.

I mean Excitebike is one of the most well known NES games out there, right with Duck Hunt and all.

But I do agree on the aesthetic reasons, that could probably be it.

 

[Z25]

Clearly Mach rider got in cause of her gun just like shadow.

Gotta sell it to those edgey teenagers.

 

[Zinith]

I got a gut feeling Mach Rider might be an clone or play similar to Captain Falcon. Something about him or her gives me that vibe...

I'd think out of ALL the characters to clone outside of their franchise, Captain Falcon would be the LAST one in consideration after that whole Ganondorf fiasco...