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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Diem

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If spirits mode is indeed a story mode where it's a crossover story like SSE

and the grinch leak is real

imagine how amazing that story is gonna be with all these legends
I'd believe that if Sakurai was working himself to the absolute bone, because he was already overworking himself in Brawl due to the size of SSE just with far less characters.

But Sakurai's said that his work schedule is healthier than it's ever been this game, which makes me think that any kind of story mode is off the table. It'll probably be more akin to Adventure Mode from Melee, or The Great Maze at the end of SSE, with no story, cutscenes, or any kind of plot, but some kind of progression through various worlds and environments.
 

Chrono.

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So has there been any discussion on the Chad Ganondorf leak as corroborating evidence in favor of Grinch? Because to me that's easily the strongest evidence for as it predicts the exact same roster of 7 different characters well before the Grinch leak came to light, but I barely ever see anyone mention it.
It could easily be the same person.

Like I could see someone starting to work on the banner and once they were close to finishing, post the "leak" to 4chan, finish the art and the rest is history.
 

andres22

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Mod Edit: Image removed. Keep it back on-topic, please.
...
 
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CosmicQuark

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Mother****ing Leaker also provided 2 very clear shots of the game though
I think that's missing the point. The point is to argue against the idea the personality of the leaker matters too much (e.g., Verge, Verge, Verge), not a defense of the leak itself. The two leaks can weakly be compared to each other, but I think it's fairly obvious the ESRB leak was much better and was far more conclusive. Whereas I find the Grinch leak compelling but not conclusive.
 

FixedFun

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I'd believe that if Sakurai was working himself to the absolute bone, because he was already overworking himself in Brawl due to the size of SSE just with far less characters.

But Sakurai's said that his work schedule is healthier than it's ever been this game, which makes me think that any kind of story mode is off the table. It'll probably be more akin to Adventure Mode from Melee, or The Great Maze at the end of SSE, with no story, cutscenes, or any kind of plot, but some kind of progression through various worlds and environments.
All the CGI cutscenes tell me they won't make a full story mode, they're just using those resources for the Nintendo Directs.
 

staindgrey

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Well they might as well get use to it because their characters will be sharing the same spotlight in game.
In game and announcement trailers are two totally different things from a marketing standpoint. Nintendo has to woo them in with a promise of increased buzz around their product. Capcom, for instance, might not want Ken overshadowed on social media by being announced at the same time as Geno.

We just need to remember when we imagine these things that we're talking about corporate executives, marketing managers getting paid six figure salaries and rooms full of lawyers discussing exactly how and when and what can be used/sold. And they can be very strict about it. (Or they can also not. We'll see, if the leak turns out to be true somehow.)
 

vaanrose

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So the text leak was Sep 29.

I heard rumblings early on that this snapchat story is a few weeks old? Anybody have a source on that?
 

PhilosophicAnimal

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SPROUT MEGAPOST

So, in a Wendy's promotional video, we saw this -



OH, THE PASTABILITIES

Many seem to think this is a Growth-related item from Golden Sun. Here is a Dark Dawn version for clarification -



This could be the case. It has been proposed that these could be use to grow climbable vines, and ladder attacks are a promoted feature.


NEW TEAM HEALER?



It's been suggested that this is, perhaps, a new team healing item. I do not agree with this. What we saw was a 1v1, and in the 3DS & Wii U versions, team items do not spawn EVEN WHEN TEAM MODE IS SELECTED for 1v1. They only spawn with 3+ players.

Additionally, while many items have been redesigned, this would be an extremely drastic redesign that goes from a floating, stationary orb we've seen for 2 entries to a ground-planted sprout with an orb that does not have streaks like Team Heal has.

NEW HEALING ITEM?

This has also been proposed as a possible explanation. One aspect that is NOT being discussed about this item is that it would need to be plucked in order to make sense, and my hypothetical proposition is that it may have a similar effect to the Healing Field item if pulled. This is, however, pretty redundant since this item -



...Can presumably just be thrown down. It should be noted that despite the visual similarities between the sprouts, this item has gone unchanged. It is advertised on the Smash website as-is, has been seen in demo footage, and was shown in a Nintendo Direct.

Additionally, I've seen it suggested that a sprout would have to be associated with healing. However, this may not necessarily be the case, as Villager has a sprout, and a sprout icon exists in the Wii U item quantity slider. It is as much associated with healing in Smash as it is with tree growth and menu options.


OTHER IDEAS



Probably not since Ramblin' Evil Mushrooms exist, but it's worth considering.



I'm not sure how this would function since in-transit the item is seed-based. It would make sense if the item spawned as a deku-nut like item, got thrown, latched on and sapped, but spawning as a sprout doesn't go in line with this.



The Flora Sprout from Super Paper Mario was used for mind control. Not a terrible suggestion, in my opinion, since maybe you could throw it and if it connects your opponent's controls are reversed, but it would be very unusual to see a random, one-off Super Paper Mario reference with only a vague backing concept.



This item has been spotted in Ultimate already, but an underrated possibility is that a Sprout is simply an ALTERNATE of this. Grass is considered a capsule item, much like crates, party balls, and capsules - and some of those have alternates. However, my issue is that grass does NOT have a bubble surrounding it in Smash Ultimate based on the image that surfaced. It would be redundant if it wasn't an alternate in the same vein as present Crates or sci-fi barrels.

VERDICT

It would seem to be redundant if it were simply another healing item when the Healing Field almost supersedes any purpose it might have, especially in tandem with existing healing items like the tomato, heart, & so forth. There are some options from other games, but they range into being obscure, or impractical, unless the Sprout item itself is just visually weird.

I honestly do think that it could be an item you pull that grows vines to climb. Would that automatically make it a Golden Sun item? No, it could hypothetically be Mario-related instead, though that's more associated with stems. If it exists, would it confirm Isaac? Not necessarily, since items like Lip's Flower exist, though between that and the speculation over the Rathalos image, I'd have to concede that Isaac's chances would greatly increase if an item similar to something from his games is in after his AT and most Golden Sun references were outright removed in Smash 4.

Now, if we keep making assumptions, do we assume the leak is true if this somehow confirms Isaac? I think it should be looked at skeptically. If Isaac is in, we'll know based on his mural position, as is the case with ANY character announcement. Isaac being in doesn't confirm the Grinch Leak, but I'd agree it would start to tilt pretty heavily in favor of it, and it would be confirmed/debunked by the time the mural updated since we know where to look for Isaac.

I currently don't know what to think, as is the case with the actual mural/Grinch Leak itself, though the mural details Vaanrose has shown make me lean fake.
Wait...I was under the assumption that the sprout was off the ground, floating in a bubble. Are you saying it's planted? Because it doesn't look like it...
 

Cutie Gwen

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Is it possible this is all a giant elaborate 4Chan fake with multiple people behind it?

The thought briefly crossed my mind because of how intricate this web has been woven and how a lot of it's details have originated from there.
It's certainly possible, we have people who have shown ludicrous dedication to **** like this, including making physical fake NX controllers when we were still wondering what the hell that was
 

SuperNintendoKid

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I'm normally opposed to judging a leaker's credibility based off of their personality but oh my gosh that post reeks so hard of being a 4Chan troll. I just can't take that thing seriously.
what you may or may not know is that the french in the snapchat post also is really rude to nintendo just like the chad dorf leak

which could mean they're the same person, or at least have a similar distaste for nintendo. maybe im overthinking it, but it's just a thought
 
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Chrono.

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It's certainly possible, we have people who have shown ludicrous dedication to **** like this, including making physical fake NX controllers when we were still wondering what the hell that was
Probably not the same deal but similar enough, but Google 4chan vs Shia LeBeauf.

The internet is weird and very dedicated to weird things.
 

Calane

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You know, I was thinking.

Is there a chance that the supposed "Growth" item could just be this guy about to sprout out of the ground like in Ocarina of Time?

sprout.gif


I doubt it, but it's just a thought. Sorry if someone already brought this idea up.

(I really hope the item's from Golden Sun, though).
 

Chiroz

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I could buy this, but the big difference between the banners is that the leaked one is missing stuff. The entire castle structure over the waterfall, for example, is replaced with nothing in the leaked banner. So, for this theory to be true, the decision would be instead to remove detail, and only in the places where detail was obscured by the crowd.
I think the theory here is that the banner was made in full back in 2016 and the banner we are seeing on the table is that really really old banner. Then as they cut characters in order to make the newer versions in 2018 there was a lot of empty space. "Oh ****, look at all that empty space behind Zelda..., add in some castle behind her". So the banner we have now would be the final version.

The problem I see with this theory is that most additions are not even viewable in any of the versions we currently have of the banner. Like the island that dissappeared is not viewable in any version whatsoever. Most of the sections that are actually visible (the ones they could foreseeable add a castle to fill up) are actually identical and have nothing added. So if something was decided to be added, they decide it to add it where it would make no difference to the any of the versions.

That is unless we are getting several more versions that might show those sections in the near future. Also why is a 2016 banner next to promotional art of a 2018 movie? Not an impossible theory, but extremely improbable in my opinion.

That said, they could be planning to release a "Just Battlefield" artwork for people to buy or use as a desktop image, and if that's so then that banner background was probably updated many times throughout it's lifetime, meaning there definitely would be a "first draft" and a "final version" of it that could have castles added behind characters where they will never be seen on the banner.
 
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Das Koopa

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Wait...I was under the assumption that the sprout was off the ground, floating in a bubble. Are you saying it's planted? Because it doesn't look like it...
Mute City SNES is an awful stage visually. What you're seeing is the Sprout sitting on a car that is a platform - it's just hard to distinguish.
 

Michael the Spikester

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Whether the banner leak is real or fake. I'm certain Isaac's in due to the item.

Some may point out to the Lip item yes but that item has been in Smash since Melee whereas its first appearing in this game. That and Nintendo renewed the Golden Sun franchise. Coincidence?

Combined with the fact he's also among the most heavily demanded characters of the Big 5 being King K. Rool (Confirmed), Ridley (Confirmed), Geno and Banjo.
 

FirestormNeos

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Smashdown 5v5 - Your top 5
:ultzss::ultmewtwo::ultganondorf::ultmetaknight::ultike:

Uh, I'm a bit bored so I'll expand on @drag0nscythe's idea. List your top 5 favorite and least favorite characters in SSBU. Explanations are fine, but not needed.

Favorite: :ultlink::ultgreninja::ultlucario::ultmewtwo::ultsonic:

Least Favorite: :ultdaisy::ultpeach::ultinkling::ultisabelle::ultwario: (this all could change)

What about you?
Favorite: :ultsamus::ultsnake::ultkirby::ultinkling::ultdaisy:
Least: tbh there's only one nintendo character I genuinely ****ing hate, and if Nintendo is smart, they will never appear in another video game ever again except to be retconned into an irredeemable monster that dies painfully. So when I say :ultlittlemac::ultolimar::ultduckhunt::ultfox::ultlucas:, it's purely out of indifference toward these characters as opposed to actual negativity.
 

CosmicQuark

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Does anyone know who made that creepy detailed Steve model?
No, but I'd rather not keep seeing this **** on here. I've been pretty clear my feelings about the character, but this toxic bull**** is really putting a downer on what should be pretty fun speculation surrounding what I consider to be an interesting leak. I'd rather people be celebrating the things they like about the leak, rather than rubbing it into people's faces. If the shoe was on the other foot (and there's a non-zero probability it could), and they posted that **** with the leaked characters, they'd be assholes too.

EDIT: Thanks mods
 
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Diem

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All the CGI cutscenes tell me they won't make a full story mode, they're just using those resources for the Nintendo Directs.
There's a lot of people out there who think it's the opposite, and that the CGI trailers mean that there will be a story mode. Despite the fact that for Smash 4, the CGI trailers meant that there wasn't one, for reasons clearly explained: Sakurai didn't like that SSE's cutscenes were posted online, so instead they used those resources to make the CGI trailers that would go online anyways. Putting a huge amount of effort into trailer CGI when it could be better used for the in-game CGI makes little sense.

And I've tried explaining it to those people, but consensus I got in return was literally "but we ultimate though." So there's going to be a lot of disappointed people for that alone when the Direct comes out.
 

Kirbunny431

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View attachment 172212
Near the end of september based on timestamp.

It's kind of hard to say how it contributes.
Could be the same person.
Could be the person who made the banner is piggybacking off this leak.
Could be 2 different people leaking the same real information. This could ply into what Tansut said about there being a real leak out there. Of course, this isn't necessarily it.
One thing that sticks out to me about this is that the post just sort of...showed up in a thread about another "leak." On the eve of E3, I decided to dig through GameFAQs out of boredom and found a leak discussion thread. I dismissed it as fake and continued to read further into the thread, at which point Loz18 appeared and mentioned, among other things, Zelda's ALBW design. It's like he decided to post in the thread just to be like "uh, no, I'm right, look at me." We all know he went off the deep end after E3 and I realize that this doesn't prove anything, but I could totally foresee someone wanting similar attention and spilling all of his knowledge in a thread about a completely separate leak.

Actually, now that I think about it, I have to wonder how this 4chan poster obtained so much secret information at once. He claims to know of not only the roster, but also bosses and characters who got cut in the middle of development. Exactly how many people would be privy to that information? Very few, I'd assume. Papagenos' source apparently heard whispers of all these characters, but the sheer amount of info here gives me pause.
 

staindgrey

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Smashdown 5v5 - Your top 5
And you can include the leaks (that includes Incineroar)
:ultdaisy::ultlucina::ultyounglink::ultzelda::ultrobin:

This is assuming I get used to Daisy, because I've been practicing Smash 4 Peach and... I just... don't... like her...........

Also, Corrin is surprisingly fun and I hate it.
 

Das Koopa

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I could buy this, but the big difference between the banners is that the leaked one is missing stuff. The entire castle structure over the waterfall, for example, is replaced with nothing in the leaked banner. So, for this theory to be true, the decision would be instead to remove detail, and only in the places where detail was obscured by the crowd.
I think a point that has gone unmentioned a lot is that, as far as I can tell, the castle in the background is plainly visible in multiple iterations of the background. You see see it behind Zelda. Now, let's say a leaker faked this by taking existing mural art - how would he even miss it?

I'm not saying this does anything one way or the other since this is purely speculative, but it'd be a huge mistake to miss existing material and not even attempt to fake what we don't see.
 

mbvswb

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So what are the chances Ultimate gets datamined and we find most of the DLC characters? I'm assuming little to none
 

Paperchampion23

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I know you're referring to the infamous smear, but it's important to me it's made clear to anyone reading this that the clouds have not changed in any of the official banners.

Here is E3, 8.8, Current.



As for the smear itself, explanations have been given for that on both sides of the argument.
Yes, thats exactly what I'm talking about. The "smear" is different in both the blank background and the actual character banner in the leak. The fact that it didn't change, but changed in the leak, and is completely visible is my entire point. Its not hidden behind a character. It was changed even though many other clouds are the same to a T, yet this particular one was changed.

It could be a smear though, as for many other things on the leak. Its a 100p poor image lol.

Mother****ing Leaker also provided 2 very clear shots of the game though
Mother****ing leaker also intentionally leaked Smash 4. Grinch/Snapchat leak was not intentional allegedly.
 
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perfectchaos83

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One thing that sticks out to me about this is that the post just sort of...showed up in a thread about another "leak." On the eve of E3, I decided to dig through GameFAQs out of boredom and found a leak discussion thread. I dismissed it as fake and continued to read further into the thread, at which point Loz18 appeared and mentioned, among other things, Zelda's ALBW design. It's like he decided to post in the thread just to be like "uh, no, I'm right, look at me." We all know he went off the deep end after E3 and I realize that this doesn't prove anything, but I could totally foresee someone wanting similar attention and spilling all of his knowledge in a thread about a completely separate leak.
It's also something that happens on 4chan a lot.

I think a point that has gone unmentioned a lot is that, as far as I can tell, the castle in the background is plainly visible in multiple iterations of the background. You see see it behind Zelda. Now, let's say a leaker faked this by taking existing mural art - how would he even miss it?

I'm not saying this does anything one way or the other since this is purely speculative, but it'd be a huge mistake to miss existing material and not even attempt to fake what we don't see.
The one behind Zelda is a different castle than the one behind Bowser/Ike.
 

cothero

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Whether the banner leak is real or fake. I'm certain Isaac's in due to the item.

Some may point out to the Lip item yes but that item has been in Smash since Melee whereas its first appearing in this game. That and Nintendo renewed the Golden Sun franchise. Coincidence?

Combined with the fact he's also among the most heavily demanded characters of the Big 5 being King K. Rool (Confirmed), Ridley (Confirmed), Geno and Banjo.
Also this:

rat.jpg
 

Chrono.

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View attachment 172212
Near the end of september based on timestamp.

It's kind of hard to say how it contributes.
Could be the same person.
Could be the person who made the banner is piggybacking off this leak.
Could be 2 different people leaking the same real information. This could ply into what Tansut said about there being a real leak out there. Of course, this isn't necessarily it.
"Iaac btfo" is the highlight of that post.
 

staindgrey

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So what are the chances Ultimate gets datamined and we find most of the DLC characters? I'm assuming little to none
Assuming Sakurai (and Nintendo in general) takes the same approach to DLC as he has in the past, none.

All DLC for Smash 4 after Mewtwo and Lucas was worked on after the game's release.
 

grizby2

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TIN FOIL HAT (and story) TIME: thinking about that banner leak made me think of something.

what if it was ME, that found that banner art? what would I do?

surely, if anyone knew I was responsible for the leak, I would be canned from my job (and probably worse). but I would want people to KNOW it was real, so how could I do that without getting in trouble myself? the answer: a SCAPE GOAT.

now of course, I can't have someone I currently work with be the scape goat... that'd be too dangerous, if an investigation came around, it would be limited to the people who currently work with me and myself included, id be in my own blast radius. but what if it was someone who DID work in the same place but at a different time? someone who I still knew the full name to, who had no interest in smash bros, who didn't know me specifically, and who hadn't worked with me in two years?

perfect. make a fake account, post the video, and observe the chaos. there will be people who think its fake due to the man being absent from the company for so long, thus making the leak seem pretty shady, (not preferable) but at least no damage is done to me, and the info is now floating freely, with the culprit (me) getting a clean get-away...:evil:



but i'll get some plastic surgery just in case.
 

Michael the Spikester

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So what are the chances Ultimate gets datamined and we find most of the DLC characters? I'm assuming little to none
Wait did that happen with Sm4sh? If so I thought hacking only could decode the database of scrapped characters as Brawl had shown with the Forbidden Seven.
 

CosmicQuark

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I think a point that has gone unmentioned a lot is that, as far as I can tell, the castle in the background is plainly visible in multiple iterations of the background. You see see it behind Zelda. Now, let's say a leaker faked this by taking existing mural art - how would he even miss it?

I'm not saying this does anything one way or the other since this is purely speculative, but it'd be a huge mistake to miss existing material and not even attempt to fake what we don't see.
I agree. While I feel like speculating about the background may be too nitpicky for my tastes, it can still tell us something about the validity of this leak. The problem is, it's mostly inconclusive. I feel like the stuff missing behind the characters is slightly balanced with the stuff the leaker probably shouldn't have missed if they were faking it, and I can see reasons for leaving out detail for a panoramic stand. On the other hand, it would have been conclusive had there been a macro-detail hidden behind one of the characters in the Grinch leak. It's why overall, I find the nitpicks of the background are a little compelling, but not conclusive.
 

vaanrose

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I think a point that has gone unmentioned a lot is that, as far as I can tell, the castle in the background is plainly visible in multiple iterations of the background. You see see it behind Zelda. Now, let's say a leaker faked this by taking existing mural art - how would he even miss it?

I'm not saying this does anything one way or the other since this is purely speculative, but it'd be a huge mistake to miss existing material and not even attempt to fake what we don't see.
Not the castle behind Zelda. That one is on the leak. The castle behind Bowser. That one isn't visible in any of the different banners, because Bowser and Ike always cover it up completely. And it's missing on the leak.
 

FixedFun

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Wait did that happen with Sm4sh? If so I thought hacking only could decode the database of scrapped characters as Brawl had shown with the Forbidden Seven.
Funny that the only scrapped character found in Smash for Wii U, was a Rhythm Heaven one (with the filename called Rhythm)
 

SuperSmashLover

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So what are the chances Ultimate gets datamined and we find most of the DLC characters? I'm assuming little to none
Anyone who follows the Splatoon series would like a word with you XD I think it is very much possible for this to happen.

Using the Splatoon example, there was a point in time where hackers were able to generate a stage during ONLINE PLAY that had not yet been released to the public in a free update for Splatoon 2

https://youtu.be/ZsaergzjDEk?t=11 for reference
 
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