Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Nekoo]

Why do people put so much stock in e-celeb opinions? Especially ones that are completely unrelated to the source?

To be fair, Serebii knew stuff about the Brawl Roster.

And there a reason that this meme exist you know.

 

[dezeray112]

What’s the current status of the banner leak?

Judging by the recent events, it almost feels like a see-saw in which it goes either to the legit or fake side.

 

[amazonevan19]

At this point, the wave of insiders coming out against it can be seen one of two ways.

It's really fake, OR they're pissed/doing damage control for Nintendo

Seeing as papageno apparently has a source in Microsoft vouching for the leak, I'm willing to bet Incineroar was leak bait and the insiders are furiously scrambling to figure out what's going on to save their reputations.

It's ok guys, you missed this one. Can't know everything

 

[Deleted member]

Sorry about the false alarm guys :/

 

[MainJPW]

Dragon Ball Z Budokai Tenkaichi 3 be damned

Still salty over Kid Chi-Chi over Adult Chi-Chi. And Kid Kuririn.

 

[Deleted member]

One of two options:

-Box theory is true, we end with Kencineroar and the Grinch is just Joker brought to the real world.

-The leak is real

 

[Iko MattOrr]

AGAIN IF the roster was decided in 2015, this picture can be old.

It can be old, but it's still unlikely. Those murals are probably assembled when they need to, since it's an easy process (they have the artworks and the background, they only have to place them). And anyway, it's something that Nintendo, or Sora would do, not a random company that makes cardboard promotional material.

Even if the picture was that old, there was no reason to design promotional material with all the characters back in 2016, you see that the arts used in promotional material from the E3 to now aren't complete, and Nintendo wouldn't spread the final roster to random companies.

Also, there is the Grinch movie. I know nothing of movies and cinema, but I doubt a final promotional render of the movie was avaliable back in 2016.

I'm not an expert in law or anything, but this is what I think:
I think the company is saying the thruth, or at least, if they are lying it will come out soon. I think that there are documents and stuff to prove if they actually worked for Nintendo or anything, and if something legal will happen soon, they will probably come out.
If the leak was real, probably Nintendo would have forced them to not say anything on the subject, and that post wouldn't have been made in the first place.
Also, if they have no evidence of what they are saying and there is evidence of the opposite (documents, contracts etc.), what's the point of lying in a public, official claim if the thruth is inevitably going to come out sooner or later? It would put them in even bigger troubles IMO.
I think they are not lying, I think they have nothing to do with the leak.
The only way I can see them posting that claim if the leak is real, is if Nintendo said them to do so in order to hide the fact that they worked for them and making the public think that the leak is fake until the game is released.
Though I think it's not the case, because a leak like this already happend (ESRB) and Nintendo never tried to lie and hide it, and also I'm not even sure if lying like that is even legal when there are proofs that you are spreading false informations (contracts, documents), well, unless they are working for Nintendo illegally, something that's impossible IMO.
The best thing to do if the leak was real, would have been to just shut up, on Marina PLV's side as well.

 

[osby]

Someone mentioned a “story mode-like trailer” for potentially revealing the newcomers, and it made me realize something: If Spirits ends up being a story mode, how will certain characters even work/fit in? Will everyone be in it? We have and , and why would Mario change into scrubs for a level, and clearly we can’t have 3 Links meeting or there’s gonna be a time paradox. Plus, how do you even incorporate characters like in a story mode? I can’t see her randomly coming out of the blue to save Sonic’s butt, or just casually doing exercise and then realizing “I need to go save the world” when a villain suddenly appears. She’s a fitness instructor, not a warrior or adventurer or anything like that.

I mean, I guess do it like what Brawl did with and (make them weird plot point characters), , and (secret characters) or (they're just there).

 

[Flamingbird]

Lol I’m SOOOO glad that silly squirrel didn’t make it into this faker than fake leak.

 

[FalcoXP]

Nintendo should do a splatfest voting poll like this:

TeamReal or TeamFake?

And when the poll is closed, show the next direct date.

 

[Abha]

My favorite thing about scenario 2 is that someone thought "how do I make this actually worth discussing? Oh duh, stick a Grinch render in there."

I already told you that the Grinch took a selfie and is riding the infamy wave to promote his upcoming movie.

 

[Deleted member]

Not to be controversial or anything but I trust Joe in regards to leaks more than anyone in this thread so....
#TeamFake :V

 

[T-Hell]

To be fair, Serebii knew stuff about the Brawl Roster.

And there a reason that this meme exist you know.
View attachment 171938

What is Serebii's take on the leak though? I can't find anything.

 

[VGPhaze]

In the Metroid lore, she's specified as female, however considering she's a reincarnated, humanoid, Phazon-corrupted metroid that looks like Samus simply because it ripped the Phazon Suit off of Samus to give itself a corporeal form and not actually a clone of Samus herself, it is technically genderless. We could argue that maybe the original metroid that Dark Samus came from was female and use that as a basis, but that was never explicitly stated in the lore, so either way works. I consider Dark Samus genderless but I think it's easier to refer to her as a "she".

tl;dr semantics

oh, you're all right, my bad.
I SWEAR the blog post originally wrote her description as an "it", but they've changed it to "she" now.

 

[Jchrono95]

So anything new since yesterday? Just woke up

 

[Confirmation]

The funny thing is, this does sound like the reverse of how we treat Box Theory. If people weren't believing that one because "it was too disappointing to be true", then perhaps it might be just as strange that I wouldn't believe the Grinch leak for the opposite reason. Well, if it weren't for historical precedence.

The reason "too good to be true" is the counter here is simple: when was the last time the final true leak actually pleased everyone?

Was it in Smash 4? Because I don't remember being pleased by the ESRB leak. I remember thinking "Why would you put Dr. Mario back? Why would you put Dark Pit??" And let's not forget everyone who couldn't stand the idea of Duck Hunt getting in over all the hopefuls. Or Corrin, later on in the DLC season, a decision not even Cloud Strife could counterbalance.

Was it in Brawl? I definitely don't remember anyone being happy with that. I remember reading "Why does it end at Wolf??", "What tf is a Toon Link?" and numerous arguments denying the existence of R.O.B. Was it in Melee? I legitimately have no experience in this case, but I don't imagine Mr. Game & Watch and Marth originally fulfilling everyone's dreams.

Even Ultimate, when its contents were leaked onto 4chan prior to the E3 Direct, seemed to suffer from this. Just Daisy and Ridley? Enough ported content to make people question if it was a port? What far cry from the Melee and Brawl reveal trailers was this? (This isn't to say it was bad in the slightest, but that what we got is so different from what we expected that a leak of its contents alone could not please people as much as the actual presentation itself did.)

So why does the Grinch leak just so happen to please almost everyone? Just look at this list. Isaac and Geno for the longtime hopefuls. Chorus Kids for the Smash 4 fans who wanted to see them. Mach Rider for those who expect a retro character. Banjo-Kazooie for the Rare crowd. Ken and Shadow for their respective bases. Even I'd be happy if it turned out to be true, finally seeing Banjo-Kazooie get into Smash; you'd have to be exclusively supporting the likes of indies, BWD, and Waluigi to be upset with what the Grinch leak promises. Sure, one could say Mach Rider and Chorus Kids would count as controversial choices, but they're well balanced out by everyone else, and disappointing unexpected final leaks are never balanced out by hype ones.

So let me repeat: when was the last time the final real leak actually pleased as many people as this one does?

No matter what evidence people have for or against this, there's still the fact that getting this many popular reveals still being kept secret when we're only a little more than a month away from release has only two possible explanations:

1. Sakurai has magically conjured a whole year's worth of work (at the very least) out of thin air to cram five unique newcomers into a game already worried about 70+ characters, 100+ stages, a mysterious green mode important enough to take a quarter of the main menu, and god knows how many copyrights. Also, he is even worse at spacing out characters than we could have suspected, despite being an unofficially-recognized hypemaster.

2. A leaker is reaching as far as he can for maximum infamy, because evil is willing to put in the work if it means they win, and people always prefer to believe things that make them happy.

Anyway, vent over. This is the last time I want to say anything about this thing.

This game has been billed as for the fans, so the last reveal being of a different nature than others is completely reasonable.

Remember that Smash 4 had a *larger* roster of completely new characters on top of dealing with the nightmare that probably was the 3ds version.

People used "disappointing enough to be true" and referenced ESRB for Box, not "too disappointing to be true". They're opposite ends of the hope/belief spectrum.

Again, a game called "special" built to please the fans actually pleasing most fans? Unimaginable.

 

[FalcoXP]

I'm not Team Real, Team Fake, or Team Inbetween. I'm Team This Game Is Already Great As Is And Everything Else Is Extra Icing On The Cake When Revealed.

Same. Mah boy Snake is in so im already happy with the current roster lol

 

[SoccerStar9001]

Nintendo should do a splatfest voting poll like this:

TeamReal or TeamFake?

And when the poll is closed, show the next direct date.

God imagine Nintendo doing the Smash Ballot with Splatfest.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

So anything new since yesterday? Just woke up

Nope, the leak is still in the air...

 

[Deleted member]

GUYS I THINK THIS MIGHT BE LEGIT TOO?!

(please don't hurt me)

 

[Nekoo]

What is Serebii's take on the leak though? I can't find anything.

I posted it I think one or two pages ago.
He believe that the smash community is bat**** crazy, and got mobbed for saying that the Leak is fake
He then pushed his stance on the leak saying that the burden of proof should be to prove it legit, not to prove it fake.

TL;DR he don't buy it

 

[Deleted member]

Again, a game called "special"

It took until the stupid Grinch leak, but someone finally got this "right!"

 

[Potato_]

Not to be controversial or anything but I trust Joe in regards to leaks more than anyone in this thread so....
#TeamFake :V

Where did Joe comment on the leak? I do trust his word quite a bit as well so I'm curious.

 

[amazonevan19]

If the leak is fake ik I'm going to be extremely disappointed and never trust anything ever again. Damn the leak for getting my hopes up.

Oh well. We'll know soon enough, and at least this made stuff interesting. I just hope and pray it's real because it's going to be hype as **** if it is.

Maybe because of the leak, Nintendo will consider some of these fighters as DLC?

 

[CrunchyCHEEZIT]

The funny thing is, this does sound like the reverse of how we treat Box Theory. If people weren't believing that one because "it was too disappointing to be true", then perhaps it might be just as strange that I wouldn't believe the Grinch leak for the opposite reason. Well, if it weren't for historical precedence.

The reason "too good to be true" is the counter here is simple: when was the last time the final true leak actually pleased everyone?

Was it in Smash 4? Because I don't remember being pleased by the ESRB leak. I remember thinking "Why would you put Dr. Mario back? Why would you put Dark Pit??" And let's not forget everyone who couldn't stand the idea of Duck Hunt getting in over all the hopefuls. Or Corrin, later on in the DLC season, a decision not even Cloud Strife could counterbalance.

Was it in Brawl? I definitely don't remember anyone being happy with that. I remember reading "Why does it end at Wolf??", "What tf is a Toon Link?" and numerous arguments denying the existence of R.O.B. Was it in Melee? I legitimately have no experience in this case, but I don't imagine Mr. Game & Watch and Marth originally fulfilling everyone's dreams.

Even Ultimate, when its contents were leaked onto 4chan prior to the E3 Direct, seemed to suffer from this. Just Daisy and Ridley? Enough ported content to make people question if it was a port? What far cry from the Melee and Brawl reveal trailers was this? (This isn't to say it was bad in the slightest, but that what we got is so different from what we expected that a leak of its contents alone could not please people as much as the actual presentation itself did.)

So why does the Grinch leak just so happen to please almost everyone? Just look at this list. Isaac and Geno for the longtime hopefuls. Chorus Kids for the Smash 4 fans who wanted to see them. Mach Rider for those who expect a retro character. Banjo-Kazooie for the Rare crowd. Ken and Shadow for their respective bases. Even I'd be happy if it turned out to be true, finally seeing Banjo-Kazooie get into Smash; you'd have to be exclusively supporting the likes of indies, BWD, and Waluigi to be upset with what the Grinch leak promises. Sure, one could say Mach Rider and Chorus Kids would count as controversial choices, but they're well balanced out by everyone else, and disappointing unexpected final leaks are never balanced out by hype ones.

So let me repeat: when was the last time the final real leak actually pleased as many people as this one does?

No matter what evidence people have for or against this, there's still the fact that getting this many popular reveals still being kept secret when we're only a little more than a month away from release has only two possible explanations:

1. Sakurai has magically conjured a whole year's worth of work (at the very least) out of thin air to cram five unique newcomers into a game already worried about 70+ characters, 100+ stages, a mysterious green mode important enough to take a quarter of the main menu, and god knows how many copyrights. Also, he is even worse at spacing out characters than we could have suspected, despite being an unofficially-recognized hypemaster.

2. A leaker is reaching as far as he can for maximum infamy, because evil is willing to put in the work if it means they win, and people always prefer to believe things that make them happy.

Anyway, vent over. This is the last time I want to talk about this thing.

i mean... not everyone. this is, in fact, far from everyone.

you've conveniently ignored pretty much everyone that wanted incineroar, bandana waddle dee, skull kid, elma, rex and pyra, a new f-zero character, shantae, porky, sora, krystal, ashley, waluigi, shovel knight... the combined amount of people who didn't get the character they wanted will almost always outnumber the people who got what they wanted, even if the characters we got and might be getting are perceived as being the be-all-end-all most popular characters. this is exactly why you never see a final roster that pleases everyone. with this type of thing, it is literally impossible to please everyone.

also, the roster was decided in 2015. these newcomers weren't decided at the last minute, my guy, lmao. you should recognize that the "its just too big/too good!" argument is completely vapid and lousy point to make if you consider how Sakurai and Nintendo has been marketing this game. It's supposed to be ridiculously massive because its ULTIMATE. it is likely going to be sakurai's last time working on Smash, don't you think breaking expectations is something he'd wanna strive for if he intends to go out with a bang?

is he seriously gonna go out with a bang on... what, incineroar and ken? get real.

leak or otherwise, this roster is nowhere near as impossible as you think it is.

 

[Pyra]

Not to be controversial or anything but I trust Joe in regards to leaks more than anyone in this thread so....
#TeamFake :V

What about me?
I have the power of God and anime on my side.


So, Haruhi Suzumiya is the newcomer that'll break the leak.

 

[Untouch]

So anything new since yesterday? Just woke up

A lot.
The printing company came out and said they have nothing to do with Smash promotion and that Eric hasn't worked at the company for 2 years.
People have traced him to another company but it seems to have nothing to do with Illumination or Smash at all.
Eric has come forth and said it wasn't him (obviously), so there's a chance it was someone impersonating them to avoid getting caught.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I think I'm going all in on it being real.
But not as a joke this time.
I've got nothing to lose- and I'm not afraid of people wrong. I don't know why anyone would be.

"BUT DON'T CRY TO ME WHEN YOU'RE DISAPPOINTED"
***** do you know who i am
i'm not gonna be disappointed

I've got a few hunches, but that's besides the point.

Remember fellas, hype irresponsibly and totally forget about it when the game comes out just like everyone else

Screenshot it and do whatever you want if/when the leak turns out to be bogus.
I welcome I-told-you-so's. Brings out the special kinds of people.



I'm going to actually do background research on this stuff for once when I get home, but I probably won't share much information. If I find anything out, it'll probably be posted on 4chan in a blurred, tilted image.

This is the ideaology I'm taking behind my stance, but I'm saying team fake. I don't really care too much about any of the characters, and while I'd perfer 7 more than 3 more, I just don't see it happening. We'll see!

I will continue to believe that the final result is a combination of leaks and predict something like Ken, Incineroar, Geno final direct, with a Banjo & Kazooie dlc reveal at VGA (mostly due to papagenos source).

 

[SoccerStar9001]

GUYS I THINK THIS MIGHT BE LEGIT TOO?!
View attachment 171943
(please don't hurt me)

*Aims Nuke at GothFluttershy*

 

[Porygon2]

They’re contracted and it’s nintendo biggest game of the year. History says that’s how Nintendo handles Smash Bros (as they did with 4)

You're responding to a misunderstood claim. All the talk of "marketing" is moot considering the company specifies that it produces packaging and decor - little about active "marketing" per se. For all we know, it might be a middle man between two other middle men that is just printing something because it happens to have cheap resources in that part of France.

Nintendo doesn't have monolithic control over every minutiae of their business - a Google search will reveal this. "Duplium Corp" has printed for Nintendo, "Primera Technology" and "Imaginators" list Nintendo as a client. To say nothing of the fact that this might be a one-off job that doesn't warrant advertising Nintendo as a client, or that the company might not see advertising its clients as a priority.

I don't use this as an argument in favor or against - just to say this whole issue is being blown out of proportion short of getting the company to actually comment, which is just irresponsible considering the "leaker" might already be suffering blowback.

 

[Abha]

It took until the stupid Grinch leak, but someone finally got this "right!"

Who is this "Special" guy? All I know is this is gonna be the Ultimate Smash game!

 

[Deleted member]

*Aims Nuke at GothFluttershy*

AW FUDGE

 

[ThatOneAnon]

At this point, the wave of insiders coming out against it can be seen one of two ways.

It's really fake, OR they're pissed/doing damage control for Nintendo

Seeing as papageno apparently has a source in Microsoft vouching for the leak, I'm willing to bet Incineroar was leak bait and the insiders are furiously scrambling to figure out what's going on to save their reputations.

It's ok guys, you missed this one. Can't know everything

So those insiders really ARE paid shills, if that’s the case.

 

[osby]

GUYS I THINK THIS MIGHT BE LEGIT TOO?!
View attachment 171943
(please don't hurt me)

Wow, middleschool me's dream crossover.

 

[Hydrualic Hydra]

The two main things selling me on this are the situation and some miscellaneous factors on the full fighter panorama.

The situation itself is so complex and absurd that, as xpnc put it, it's essentially nearly impossible for this whole thing to be a sham. The extent of detail, amount of work done, intense legal implications, and absolute absurdity of it is just too much for me to say 'Wow, that one guy had a lot of time on his hands.'

Second, the panorama has a few bits of genuine thought put into it that really feel like smart touches. All of the Miis being finally regrouped makes sense and looks much better than Gunner just off doing her own thing. Additionally, the positioning of Mach Rider, the oldest newcomer, right next to Inkling, the newest newcomer, puts a smile on my face, that this really is a game spanning all of Nintendo history. That, plus the honestly obscure decision to have Isaac using Growth, and for the Conductor to be alongside the Chorus Kids, feels more and more like true Sakurai attention to detail, rather than just INFINITY RESEARCH by one guy with some time to kill. Plus, Greninja and Roy (and a few others?) having more details shown than before.

At the end of the day, I can very easily concede that the empty panorama is sketchy, but otherwise I see nothing at all concrete pointing to this being fake. My true gut instinct is that this is real, and I will happily take that instinct to this leak's grave because it's just so damn good. I can't be mad if it's fake, it's so well done and creative if it is.

 

[Deleted member]

What about me?
I have the power of God and anime on my side.


So, Haruhi Suzumiya is the newcomer that'll break the leak.

Well, I have the power of anime and Joe Serebii on my side!

 

[Wambo]

Why are we dissing Steve?

Almost nobody in the Smash community actually wants Steve. Especially me, because this is like the only game left that's mostly oriented towards Boomers.

Seriously, I was presented with the possibility of Geno, Banjo, and Mach Rider in the same game. I NEED this to be a reality.

 

[CosmicQuark]

At this point, the wave of insiders coming out against it can be seen one of two ways.

It's really fake, OR they're pissed/doing damage control for Nintendo

Seeing as papageno apparently has a source in Microsoft vouching for the leak, I'm willing to bet Incineroar was leak bait and the insiders are furiously scrambling to figure out what's going on to save their reputations.

It's ok guys, you missed this one. Can't know everything

I'd say it's possible, though there's insiders/journalists whose reputation doesn't rely on Incineroar who are being... oddly aggressive in debunking these (e.g., Gamexplain), without providing any good evidence or reasoning. I dunno, but what I do know is that insiders/experts--can also be wrong. So, unless they provide good evidence or reasoning, I have to rely on what I have.

 

[Deleted member]

Wow, middleschool me's dream crossover.

Wait, seriously?! We are now friends

 

[JoyStar]

*nasally nerd voice* Well, actually, Joe Merrick was wrong on 2 things throughout his career, therefore, he's unreliable

Not gonna lie, I mentally read that in the voice of Know-It-All Kid from The Polar Express.