Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Idon]

Popularity = Money

Isn't that the point? I mean just imagine how much people will be buying Banjo if he makes DLC.

Two big hurdles:

One: He's popular here, sure and to anyone even remotely interested in Smash, but you'd be hard-pressed to find SMRPG popular with either the dedicated RPG community or the wider casual community at large. I've

Two: Even with his popularity, Geno himself isn't attached to anything Square Enix can actually profit from. SMRPG, is an old niche game that doesn't have any sequels or re-releases, existing on only older hardware that is unlikely to be accessed legally today. SE aint getting cash from that, so unless Square Enix decides to actually do something with specifically just Geno and/or Mallow, (or collab with Ninty for SMRPG2) they're basically useless for SE to use now, Nintendo bribes or not.

 

[T3Z3R1]

Can't wait until the final Smash Direct after which we'll be hugging each other and discussing how much we love each other after the drought has ended for at least a solid week and I mean this genuinely

At least, we will be free from the hell that was smash info drought since final smash direct will likely have all of informations in it and even final roster too!

 

[TheCJBrine]

Two big hurdles:
One: He's popular here, sure and to anyone even remotely interested in Smash, but you'd be hard-pressed to find SMRPG popular with either the RPG community or the wider casual community at large.

Two: Even with his popularity, Geno himself isn't attached to anything Square Enix can actually profit from. SMRPG, is an old niche game that doesn't have any sequels or re-releases, existing on only older hardware that is unlikely to be accessed legally today. SE aint getting cash from that, so unless Square Enix decides to actually do something with specifically just Geno and/or Mallow, they're basically useless for SE to use, Nintendo buckaroos or not.

Do they get a portion of SNES Classic sales since it has SMRPG...?

Or is it a DK64 situation...?

plus there's still young Mario fans probably thinking he looks cool if they see him.

 

[Thinkaman]

Geno is a good case study in prioritizing your sources. Everything about Geno--a 22-year old one-off character owned by an anal third party who wasn't even on the box of his one game--would suggest he'd be the last character to put in Smash. But we know for a fact that Sakurai explicitly wants him, even managing to get the Gunner DLC costume in 4, so that single fact takes priority.

Geno would legitimately be a big love letter to the hardcore fans, while most of the gaming public will obviously say "who?" The press would eat it up though.

 

[Luigi The President]

It's also factually respectful for him to be base as he'd be with his filled out trinity in King K. Rool and Ridley.

Which does not matter to Squenix I'm sure. I agree with you though.

Two big hurdles:

One: He's popular here, sure and to anyone even remotely interested in Smash, but you'd be hard-pressed to find SMRPG popular with either the dedicated RPG community or the wider casual community at large. I've

Two: Even with his popularity, Geno himself isn't attached to anything Square Enix can actually profit from. SMRPG, is an old niche game that doesn't have any sequels or re-releases, existing on only older hardware that is unlikely to be accessed legally today. SE aint getting cash from that, so unless Square Enix decides to actually do something with specifically just Geno and/or Mallow, (or collab with Ninty for SMRPG2) they're basically useless for SE to use now, Nintendo bribes or not.

I think you're really underestimating Mario RPG here. It's definitely got an abundance of fans with dedicated RPG players.

 

[Shroob]

Which does not matter to Squenix I'm sure. I agree with you though.


I think you're really underestimating Mario RPG here. It's definitely got an abundance of fans with dedicated RPG players.

Look how well that works for Mother 3.

 

[TheAJJohnson]

Bro just give us Zekenator in smash, screw rex and pyra

You're getting a like not necessarily because I agree, because of Zeke is amazing.

 

[Luigi The President]

Geno is a good case study in prioritizing your sources. Everything about Geno--a 22-year old one-off character owned by an anal third party who wasn't even on the box of his one game--would suggest he'd be the last character to put in Smash. But we know for a fact that Sakurai explicitly wants him, even managing to get the Gunner DLC costume in 4, so that single fact takes priority.

Geno would legitimately be a big love letter to the hardcore fans, while most of the gaming public will obviously say "who?" The press would eat it up though.

This is one of the reasons he's so amazing to me.

In a more logical word this guy would come after Paper Mario, Waluigi, Toad, Birdo, Petey Piranha, and King Boo for a Mario rep and only THEN would he be considered.

But the fact is fans love him SO MUCH they've kept him alive for over a decade and their love has caused him to even get a Mii costume and Sakurai's own attention.

Beautiful. The BEST way to "thank" the hardcore Smash fans is Geno imo.

 

[TheCJBrine]

SMRPG is on Wii U VC and the SNES Classic, but I dunno if SE get's profits from those rereleases despite owning a portion of the game's characters, and the SNES Classic being Nintendo's own property...

 

[Luigi The President]

SMRPG is on Wii U VC and the SNES Classic, but I dunno if SE get's profits from those rereleases despite owning a portion of the game's characters...

Squenix owns the whole damn game I'm pretty sure I do think they'd get profits

 

[LetterO]

If Geno gets in, it's literally the underdog story of a bunch of fans banding together to get an obscure character they really enjoy into Smash.

I love it.

 

[Thinkaman]

While I disagree that Super Mario RPG is super-relevant in 2018 (it just isn't), it was admittedly very influential in gaming history and sold roughly ~5x that of Earthbound in both Japan and the US on the same platform.

 

[Dyllybirdy]

Super Mario RPG was never originally released on the SNES in Europe. This always pisses me off, I had to buy an NTSC SNES, just so I could play it (and some other j-rpgs...)

 

[Potato_]

Look how well that works for Mother 3.

And that's a Nintendo property as well.

While I do think Geno is a strong possibility, I do get the argument that there's not much incentive on Square's part for using him (beyond the obvious "hey get your character in Smash!"). Which of course makes everything a bit more complicated and uncertain.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Squenix owns the whole damn game I'm pretty sure I do think they'd get profits

I didn't realize they owned the whole game; I expected Nintendo to own part of it at least due to Mario.

That's good news, though.

 

[Good Guy Giygas]

Do you guys think that if Geno's added, it could lead to either a resurgence of the character and/or potentially a new Super Mario RPG?

 

[alemerltoucanet]

If Geno gets in, it's literally the underdog story of a bunch of fans banding together to get an obscure character they really enjoy into Smash.

I love it.

It'd be beautiful at that as well.

 

[Shroob]

If Geno gets in, it's literally the underdog story of a bunch of fans banding together to get an obscure character they really enjoy into Smash.

I love it.

Can't the exact same thing be said of K.Rool?


He was a character who hadn't been in a game proper in ten years and Nintendo themselves wanted to retire.

 

[shinhed-echi]

So how do yall think Amiibo will work in Ultimate. I mean, should a

I'm pulling for a Erdrick/DQ 4 Protag Echo/ DQ 5 Protag Echo/ DQ 8 Protag Echo/ DQ 11 Protag Echo.

How's that?

I llike that! Those are easily overlooked when it comes to the reps for the series.
I'll be happy with ANY of them. But it's easier for me to root for Erdrick, Eight, Luminary, and Descendant (personal choice) since each of them has a specific important role to play. (Most iconic in Japan, most iconic worldwide, most recent, first protagonist).

 

[LetterO]

Can't the exact same thing be said of K.Rool?


He was a character who hadn't been in a game proper in ten years and Nintendo themselves wanted to retire.

K. Rool is still way more popular and recognizeable than Geno.

Main villain from a popular franchise vs Obscure character from one obscure game back in the 90s

 

[Luigi The President]

Do you guys think that if Geno's added, it could lead to either a resurgence of the character and/or potentially a new Super Mario RPG?

Now, a resurgence of the character I'm shaky on. Depends if Nintendo can get a hold of him for other projects and if that's worth it.
A new Mario RPG is entirely different. I feel like no, but at the same time...no idea.

Can't the exact same thing be said of K.Rool?


He was a character who hadn't been in a game proper in ten years and Nintendo themselves wanted to retire.

Different extents anymore

K. Rool was a prominent, main villain for a long-ass time, of one of Nintendo's main franchises

Geno is a one-off side character from a Mario spinoff made by a third party

Represents entirely different scopes

 

[SigmaMewtwo]

Do you guys think that if Geno's added, it could lead to either a resurgence of the character and/or potentially a new Super Mario RPG?

I hope so, especially with how Nintendo and Square-Enix are on much friendlier terms now than they were not more than a couple of years after SMRPG's original release. Being one of my favorite games on the SNES, I'd love that so much.

It would actually be amazing to get a proper sequel to the Mario RPG that spawned both the Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi series, not gonna lie.

 

[Idon]

Do they get a portion of SNES Classic sales since it has SMRPG...?

Or is it a DK64 situation...?

plus there's still young Mario fans probably thinking he looks cool if they see him.

I just don't believe that that's enough to justify him. His two re-releases were ports put on either enthusiast-focused hardware like the SNES classic or not very successful hardware like the Wii U. Either way the time has long since passed for it to gain any meaningful sales or promote any franchise at all.

Young Mario fans that are interested in Geno would find it very difficult to actually play his games unless they're willing to go out and buy a SNES Classic or use their old Wii U's Virtual Console. Ultimately, I'd see them going toward's Nintendo's own brand of RPGs instead like M&L or PM.

Who knows, maybe Daishiro Okada's actually super on board with this.

 

[NineS]

If Geno gets in, it's literally the underdog story of a bunch of fans banding together to get an obscure character they really enjoy into Smash.

I love it.

Biased here, but either Ridley or K. Rool would be the bigger underdog stories if you ask me.

Sakurai actually stated he thought Geno would be cool. At least K. Rool got a Mii Fighter costume.

Meanwhile, Ridley was denied his inclusion although considered and joked about since Brawl, possibly Melee but I'm unsure of that. Not to mention, Sakurai said Ridley was too big, only for him to include him afterward.

Ridley is called "Captain America" in Japan. If that's not an underdog story for Smash, I don't know what is.

But if you're determining how much of an Underdog a character is by their obscurity... Then, Pit in Brawl?

 

[AugustusB]

The way I see DLC working for Ultimate (at least a big chunk of it) is going to go like this.

-Base game is for the fans. This is incredibly apparent with how Sakurai and his team is building up the game. EVERYONE IS HERE! Little touches to the game that are a luxury to the fan base (Customize Rules at the beginning, Stages get picked first, Chargeable Final Smashes, minor fighter tweeks, 800+ music tracks, 103 (+?) Stages) He did not have to do this, but clearly, Sakurai is listening to the fans.

-Relevancy means NOTHING: Look at . No one was gonna expect him to make the game, But lo and behold. People, who don't know who he is, are HYPE for his inclusion. (I asked around work and random people I met at comic book stores and what not and I get 'he looks cool' or 'I remember him!')

With that out of the way, I see a scenario like this happening.

Geno base, Sora DLC - More people know who Sora is. He will sell like hot cakes to the people wanting them in Smash.

(My Dream, we'll see) Banjo & Kazooie base, Steve? DLC - The biggest boom would be this I feel. 'A former Nintendo character comes back to Smash!'. Now tell me that is NOT an exciting news headline for people to read? Again, people know who Steve? is. More hot cakes to be sold.

This is a rant on my part and an opinion. However you slice it, this game will be amazing for a LONG time.

EDIT: Nothing is a strong word for relevancy. The gist is our voices are being heard for the first time it seems. How long until they fall on deaf ears again? I am not certain.

 

[Luigi The President]

Biased here, but either Ridley or K. Rool would be the bigger underdog stories if you ask me.

Sakurai actually stated he thought Geno would be cool. At least K. Rool got a Mii Fighter costume.

Meanwhile, Ridley was denied his inclusion although considered and joked about since Brawl, possibly Melee but I'm unsure of that. Not to mention, Sakurai said Ridley was too big, only for him to include him afterward.

Ridley is called "Captain America" in Japan. If that's not an underdog story for Smash, I don't know what is.

Gonna review what I said about K. Rool a bit;

Ridley is the main antagonist of one of Nintendo's most prominent series and has been for decades

Geno is...as I said and feel redundant repeating, a side character from a Mario spin-off from a third party developer

 

[BrytonJ]

I like Geno quite a bit. From my brief and incomplete time with SMRPG the impression I got was that Geno is a pretty serious character, driven and motivated by a holy mission, but then like, he's also from magic rainbow world where wishes come true which is kind of a great combination.

 

[Luigi The President]

I like Geno quite a bit. From my brief and incomplete time with SMRPG the impression I got was that Geno is a pretty serious character, driven and motivated by a holy mission, but then like, he's also from magic rainbow world where wishes come true which is kind of a great combination.

Geno is KINDA serious but in a very dweeby manner. He's a dork above all imo.

 

[amazonevan19]

Why does everyone call leakyPANDY leakyPANDA? Im pretty sure that zeke's blade is Pandoria not Pandaoria

If a leaker can't get their leaks right, they can't expect me to care about getting their name right.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Here, let's do a mental excercise.

Think of Metroid. Think of the essense of Metroid. What you like about the worlds, the music. Everything!

Think of the characters.

are probably the first few you think of. probably shows up if you go a little further.


Now think of DK.

jump out for sure. follows close behind.

How about Zelda?
all jump to mind immediately with being lumped in there (due to being the same people).

Pokemon?
all instantly come to mind, with showing up later and maybe by association.

Let's try Mario!









How many characters did you think of before eventually coming to Geno?

Geno's problem isn't a lack of interest or potential. It's that he's essentially a historical footnote in a series with a pantheon of regularly used and beloved characters.

He's overshadowed by several characters in his own series to the point where people can easily be hardcore Mario fans, and never know who Geno is. This is something never had to deal with. If you were a DK or Metroid fan, you at least knew who those two were. Can you honestly say the same for Geno?

Geno's still got a shot, sure. But I'm honestly skeptical of his chances. He's truly unlike the majority of characters in Smash and doesn't have developmental shenanigans to sneak on by like .

 

[Thinkaman]

Can't the exact same thing be said of K.Rool?

He was a character who hadn't been in a game proper in ten years and Nintendo themselves wanted to retire.

Yup. I always thought K. Rool was a weird, if still understandable and possible, legacy choice.

He was on a lifeline of relevance--not even making the "B-team", always a C-tier trophy or Mii outfit cameo. But still there, hanging on.

I always considered K. Rool a frankly stupid character design. I didn't find him memorable or likeable in any of his games, and the whole concept seemed ridiculous and jumbled. Is he a king? A pirate captain? Why is a fat crocodile in charge? Why does he hate Donkey Kong? Crocodiles don't even eat bananas! There was a charm to Bowser and DDD that K. Rool totally lacked.

But, K. Rool serves the unique role of a villain for DK in Smash, which no one else can do. (All the other DK villains are even stupider) And he looks fun to play! I'm excited to have an ultra-fat heavy with physics very different from DDD. So even if you think they character is as dumb as I do, I think you'd agree that the game benefits from his inclusion.

 

[NineS]

The way I see DLC working for Ultimate (at least a big chunk of it) is going to go like this.

-Base game is for the fans. This is incredibly apparent with how Sakurai and his team is building up the game. EVERYONE IS HERE! Little touches to the game that are a luxury to the fan base (Customize Rules at the beginning, Stages get picked first, Chargeable Final Smashes, minor fighter tweeks, 800+ music tracks, 103 (+?) Stages) He did not have to do this, but clearly, Sakurai is listening to the fans.

-Relevancy means NOTHING: Look at . No one was gonna expect him to make the game, But lo and behold. People, who don't know who he is, are HYPE for his inclusion. (I asked around work and random people I met at comic book stores and what not and I get 'he looks cool' or 'I remember him!')

With that out of the way, I see a scenario like this happening.

Geno base, Sora DLC - More people know who Sora is. He will sell like hot cakes to the people wanting them in Smash.

(My Dream, we'll see) Banjo & Kazooie base, Steve? DLC - The biggest boom would be this I feel. 'A former Nintendo character comes back to Smash!'. Now tell me that is NOT an exciting news headline for people to read? Again, people know who Steve? is. More hot cakes to be sold.

This is a rant on my part and an opinion. However you slice it, this game will be amazing for a LONG time.

I wouldn't say the game is entirely for the base fans, this is the Switch we're talking about here. The characters they're adding though are definitely scoring points with old hardcore fans and new ones alike.

As for relevancy? Saying it means NOTHING is an oversight. It's less important than before, sure, but relevancy still plays a small role.
Just because a character is irrelevant it doesn't hurt their chances or means they won't get in... But just because a character is relevant, or was at the time of 2015-2016, it doesn't necessarily mean it means nothing to them either.

 

[kylexv]

Today is October 23rd.

It is also the 4th anniversary of the 50 Fact Extravaganza

 

[AugustusB]

Geno is KINDA serious but in a very dweeby manner. He's a dork above all imo.

Favorite line he ever said...

"YO SMITHY!" Out of character and just all around great.

 

[Luigi The President]

Here, let's do a mental excercise.

Think of Metroid. Think of the essense of Metroid. What you like about the worlds, the music. Everything!

Think of the characters.

are probably the first few you think of. probably shows up if you go a little further.


Now think of DK.

jump out for sure. follows close behind.

How about Zelda?
all jump to mind immediately with being lumped in there (due to being the same people).

Pokemon?
all instantly come to mind, with showing up later and maybe by association.

Let's try Mario!









How many characters did you think of before eventually coming to Geno?

Geno's problem isn't a lack of interest or potential. It's that he's essentially a historical footnote in a series with a pantheon of regularly used and beloved characters.

He's overshadowed by several characters in his own series to the point where people can easily be hardcore Mario fans, and never know who Geno is. This is something never had to deal with. If you were a DK or Metroid fan, you at least knew who those two were. Can you honestly say the same for Geno?

Geno's still got a shot, sure. But I'm honestly skeptical of his chances. He's truly unlike the majority of characters in Smash and doesn't have developmental shenanigans to sneak on by like .

That's the thing. Fan interest is the only reason Geno survives. The fact that it's gotten him through 22 years, I feel, should really be enough to get him in Smash. Will it happen? Don't know. Hope so.

 

[Good Guy Giygas]

I hope so, especially with how Nintendo and Square-Enix are on much friendlier terms now than they were not more than a couple of years after SMRPG's original release. Being one of my favorite games on the SNES, I'd love that so much.

It would actually be amazing to get a proper sequel to the Mario RPG that spawned both the Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi series, not gonna lie.

Yea I'd be interested to see if they'd consider making a proper sequel since they ended making their own RPG series with Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi. If nothing else, perhaps they could team up with SE again to make a new Paper Mario and include Geno in it as mainstay character.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

-Relevancy means NOTHING: Look at . No one was gonna expect him to make the game, But lo and behold. People, who don't know who he is, are HYPE for his inclusion. (I asked around work and random people I met at comic book stores and what not and I get 'he looks cool' or 'I remember him!')

With that out of the way, I see a scenario like this happening.

Geno base, Sora DLC - More people know who Sora is. He will sell like hot cakes to the people wanting them in Smash.

(My Dream, we'll see) Banjo & Kazooie base, Steve? DLC - The biggest boom would be this I feel. 'A former Nintendo character comes back to Smash!'. Now tell me that is NOT an exciting news headline for people to read? Again, people know who Steve? is. More hot cakes to be sold.

This is a rant on my part and an opinion. However you slice it, this game will be amazing for a LONG time.

It hasn't been so for so long after all.

Came back years after their titular game.
andcame back nearly two decades after the GBC game
Same as Ice Climbers

I can go on.

And before people says why they're different from K. Rool because some of them are retros as this trend for Smash. If you really get down to it relevancy doesn't really matter with fiction as a whole since Rocko and Invader Zim are returning with TV specials years after their cancellations.

Or the fact that Ribbon and Adeleine returned in Star Allies with their last appearance having been Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards. Heck pretty certain many characters throughout fiction has been absent for a decade or more and eventually returned. It isn't only exclusive to Smash yo.

 

[Potato_]

Gonna review what I said about K. Rool a bit;

Ridley is the main antagonist of one of Nintendo's most prominent series and has been for decades

Geno is...as I said and feel redundant repeating, a side character from a Mario spin-off from a third party developer

Yeah but I get his point about Ridley. This is a character that was legit touted as "not possible" for the longest time, denied twice by Sakurai, and the butt of jokes for years. Even with his relevance to Metroid, he was seen as an impossibility.

Despite all that though, he's managed to make it in, with basically all the odds against him.

Geno would also be an underdog, moreso than Ridley for sure. But that doesn't make Ridley's story any less of an underdog one.

 

[shinhed-echi]

These guys did not get a new game post appearance.
Got a game after inclusion.
3rd party companies have their own agenda-
Development hell.

 

[NineS]

Gonna review what I said about K. Rool a bit;

Ridley is the main antagonist of one of Nintendo's most prominent series and has been for decades

Geno is...as I said and feel redundant repeating, a side character from a Mario spin-off from a third party developer

A character Sakurai actually likes.
I honestly felt Geno was more likely than Ridley at E3 up until Ridley was revealed. At least Geno fans had the fact Sakurai stated to like him, and the Mii Outfit to hold on to.

Ridley supporters though? The guy himself said he probably wouldn't make it in due to being too big, something we were all sick of for a pretty long time, and all we had to hold onto was the hopes that Sakurai would change his mind as he did with Villager and Pac-Man.