Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[osby]

Reminder that Sakurai stated that he was referring to the ballot for the roster.

That part is obvious but it's still not clear which extend this carries until every character reveals. Smash For DLC also seemed to focus on requested characters until Corrin.

Also, is it just me, or this thread is more chill than usual tonight?

 

[Robertman2]

jiggypuff.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Reminder that Sakurai stated that he was referring to the ballot for the roster.

True, but I kinda doubt that he's only choosing characters solely from ballot results.
Sakurai likes surprises, doesn't he?

jiggypuff.

What do you mean by that exactly?

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Shulk was, from my experience, sort of middle of the road in terms of popularity, he was definitely popular, but not a top of the pile inclusion at all, I can name at least 6 characters that consistently outperformed him in polls and what not, maybe even expand that by two or three depending on which period of the game's speculation we're talking about.

I think this was why his fanbase was pretty levelheaded aswell, it just hit that sweetspot where his thread saw a lot of activity, but not so much that it attracted a lot of drama or wildfires would spread like crazy. His fanbase was pretty much Smash 4's answer to the Brawl Isaac fanbase in that regard, except Shulk actually made it in.

 

[Pyra]

jiggypuff.

Banjo Kazooie confirmed

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I can personally see Sakurai pulling out a few that he wants for himself. The majority is from the ballot but a few picks for himself say like someone from Kid Icarus win-win basically.

 

[Thinkaman]

My boi ESAM disagrees.

That's... great? I'm gonna continue to stick to ESAM for Pika advice and Mr. E for Marcina, but if you wanna do the opposite I can't stop you.

A least Ike is looking like a literal combination of his Brawl and SSB4 incarnations, his absurd strength and range from Brawl and his comboing and scary aerials from SSB4, meaning he's likely to be a monster this time around.

Yeah, it's hard to make too many guesses early (and we have a collective history of overrating heavy characters based on demo play), but Ultimate Ike does look, well, ultimate.

 

[Diem]

It's still amazing to me that characters like managed to end up playable. It's almost hard to believe, but then Ultimate seems to be about fulfilling the seemingly unrealistic requests. Who really expected all to end up being part of the base roster for this game when it was first announced, particularly in comparison to characters deemed "safer" for the base roster pre-Ultimate announcement like Spring Man and Rex?

Spring Man and Rex were already not happening if only because their games came out in 2017, two years after Ultimate started development. Same reason why Octolings aren't in the game; their significance comes primarily from Splatoon 2, particularly its Octo Expansion from a few months ago, which is way after Ultimate's roster was decided.

People would make the argument "Oh, but they could share information behind the scenes to work on it while the game is in development," but that's a really dangerous thing to do. Say they decided to change Rex's design in XC2 before the game released (unfortunately they didn't). Then the Ultimate team would have to spend time making those changes, which would take unnecessary time and resources. Or say a move or gameplay mechanic is changed, but it was used for one of the character's moves. Now they have to redo an entire move, which is the worst possible thing to happen, short of the game straight up being canceled. There's just so many variables that can change when you're working with something that isn't finished yet, so it's always safer and smarter to do things that have been finished so you have a solid and consistent reference to work from, rather than one that can change at any time and is out of your control, and Sakurai knows this.

The only two times they've started work on characters prior to their game's release were Roy and Greninja. Roy was because they could just make him a Marth clone, and Greninja because it's freaking Pokemon, the most profitable media franchise in history. ARMS and Xenoblade aren't nearly that caliber.

 

[shinhed-echi]

On the overall scale, Smash 4 has had the most hype reveals for me personally.

I mean dang. That's quite a few.

Brawl for me only had:
Which was still great. But ... yeah. I don't get it when people say Smash 4 reveals were underwhelming.

And well... in Ultimate so far I got:
and I've grown to like after seeing him in action.
(not counting the hype of having back)

 

[PsySmasher]

So is anybody thinking if maining a newcomer? I'll try everybody out but I'm very interested in . Adding a heavy to my team would let me have an alternative style to throw others off. Also interested in , for the same reasons.

I mostly play heavy characters, so I'll put a lot of time into . I'm not completely sold on 's moveset yet, so we'll see what happens with that.

I'm also considering picking up , since she seems like a better version of Samus. I also tend to play as most of the villains.

 

[amazonevan19]

Planning on labbing with
May try for fun

RN I expect to main but there's a lot of new characters, and changes to old characters too...so many choices!!

And I'm obviously going to insta main Shadow for life if he makes it, no question.

 

[osby]

On the overall scale, Smash 4 has had the most hype reveals for me personally.

I mean dang. That's quite a few.

Brawl for me only had:
Which was still great. But ... yeah. I don't get it when people say Smash 4 reveals were underwhelming.

And well... in Ultimate so far I got:
and I've grown to like after seeing him in action.
(not counting the hype of having back)

Overall Smash For newcomers were more hype for me but I'll wait until final reveals to make the last decision, though returning Brawl veterans is a big treat.

Though, I kinda feel like last game did a better job at selling the newcomers but it might be just me, were pretty impressive, even though Sakurai only talked about half of them.

 

[Robertman2]

Spring Man and Rex were already not happening if only because their games came out in 2017, two years after Ultimate started development. Same reason why Octolings aren't in the game; their significance comes primarily from Splatoon 2, particularly its Octo Expansion from a few months ago, which is way after Ultimate's roster was decided.

People would make the argument "Oh, but they could share information behind the scenes to work on it while the game is in development," but that's a really dangerous thing to do. Say they decided to change Rex's design in XC2 before the game released (unfortunately they didn't). Then the Ultimate team would have to spend time making those changes, which would take unnecessary time and resources. Or say a move or gameplay mechanic is changed, but it was used for one of the character's moves. Now they have to redo an entire move, which is the worst possible thing to happen, short of the game straight up being canceled. There's just so many variables that can change when you're working with something that isn't finished yet, so it's always safer and smarter to do things that have been finished so you have a solid and consistent reference to work from, rather than one that can change at any time and is out of your control, and Sakurai knows this.

The only two times they've started work on characters prior to their game's release were Roy and Greninja. Roy was because they could just make him a Marth clone, and Greninja because it's freaking Pokemon, the most profitable media franchise in history. ARMS and Xenoblade aren't nearly that caliber.

Lucario was likely started before Diamond and Pearl game out, same with Robin.

 

[Fenriraga]

So is anybody thinking if maining a newcomer? I'll try everybody out but I'm very interested in . Adding a heavy to my team would let me have an alternative style to throw others off. Also interested in , for the same reasons.

is not only my favorite newcomer by a wide margin, but him and Simon's kit looks like it's gonna be pretty effective. So unless Geno gets added, he's gonna be the newcomer I focus on most.

 

[Cosmic77]

I can personally see Sakurai pulling out a few that he wants for himself. The majority is from the ballot but a few picks for himself say like someone from Kid Icarus win-win basically.

Bandana Waddle Dee would be the best win-win character.

(1) Sakurai gets a character from his own franchise.
(2) Fans get another character that did well on the ballot.
(3) BWD won't recieve any major backlash because he has somewhat consistent popularity.

So is anybody thinking if maining a newcomer? I'll try everybody out but I'm very interested in . Adding a heavy to my team would let me have an alternative style to throw others off. Also interested in , for the same reasons.

and for sure. Possibly if I like the rest of her moveset.

I was thinking about if he was good, but his moveset doesn't look too promising.

 

[Tiltedssb]

What would blow Smash 4's reveals out of the water. Like getting all of those non-nintendo characters from nowhere. What would seal this or these reveals as nuts??

 

[Michael the Spikester]

This is also why Steve? may have a shot too since Sakurai loves Minecraft.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Lucario was likely started before Diamond and Pearl game out, same with Robin.

Lucario made his debut in the 2005 movie Pokémon: Lucario and the Mystery of Mew (same year the Brawl roster was finalised) and Awakening was released in the same year the roster for Smash 4 was finalised.

 

[shinhed-echi]

So is anybody thinking if maining a newcomer? I'll try everybody out but I'm very interested in . Adding a heavy to my team would let me have an alternative style to throw others off. Also interested in , for the same reasons.

So far, I'm sticking to but I'm replacing with . And then I'll see with whom among I fare better.

I'm also extremely tempted to use . If either of my blue boys don't work for me as I hope, I'll slide him up to main. Because with Trainer, it should either be full dedication, or just for fun. Mastering 3 characters (in 1) is going to be a lot of work.

 

[CosmicQuark]

In terms of hype pre-game I got:

Brawl:
Wii U:
Ultimate: (No hype newcomers... yet, hopefully)

However I am excited for returning, and will enjoy playing as again. I think I might like , but I'll have to try him out to get a feel, and I'll try out to see if I like them. Though, I'll certainly be trying out everyone, those are the highlights for me so far.

 

[Diem]

I'm also considering picking up , since she seems like a better version of Samus.

Over in the Dark Samus thread, we've been scratching our heads trying to figure out what the differences are between Samus and Dark Samus. So far the only conclusive difference is that most of Samus's attacks that do fire damage are instead electric damage for Dark Samus, which means that they do more hitstun, but also apparently mean they're easier to DI out of (I think, I don't know how this stuff works too well). So that's either a buff to her combo ability or a nerf, it's hard to say.

The hope is that Dark Samus is floatier/has better air mobility than Samus, but that means her physics will be totally different, which is a major balancing change that probably wouldn't happen for an Echo Fighter. I'm eager to test out the differences the day the game comes out so we can know for sure.

Whatever the case, I was willing to settle for even just an alt costume, given how unlikely Dark Samus was in the first place. I'll definitely take an Echo Fighter with minimal gameplay differences.

Lucario was likely started before Diamond and Pearl game out, same with Robin.

Awakening came out a year and a half before Smash 4's release, so they might've cut it close, but they had plenty of time to work on the character after the game was out. As for Lucario, he debuted in a movie that came out in 2005, almost three years before Brawl was released, and which is probably the main reason he was chosen for the game in the first place.

 

[SonicMario]

Sonic's always going to be my #1. The only thing that could happen that could make that not the case is if Tails ever makes it. But I don't expect that to happen until at least DLC.

Even in that case, Sonic would be a solid #2 and I would alternate commonly between Sonic and Tails. But just use Tails a good amount more since he is my favorite Sonic character.

 

[osby]

This is also why Steve? may have a shot too since Sakurai loves Minecraft.

People tend to forget Sakurai loves a lot of video game stuff. Like "Kid Icarus, Fire Emblem, Star Fox, Kirby, whatever bias" is a thing but it's obvious he fanboys for characters like Little Mac, Simon or Mega Man, too.

 

[Cosmic77]

What would blow Smash 4's reveals out of the water. Like getting all of those non-nintendo characters from nowhere. What would seal this or these reveals as nuts??

What would blow Smash 4's reveals out of the water? I thought that was done right after Mr. "Too Big for Smash" got revealed.

But seriously, if Ridley didn't sell you on Ultimate having the better newcomers, K. Rool should've finished the job.

 

[NextChannelGames]

Nice, page 5700!! Now where’s that Smash Direct coming?

Also, is there anything you guys like to see come back to Smash? Like I would love to see the stickers and the Brawl’s Arcade Trophy mode come back. (Forgot the name)


I thought these guys are pretty much hype characters already.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

What would blow Smash 4's reveals out of the water. Like getting all of those non-nintendo characters from nowhere. What would seal this or these reveals as nuts??

One image for ya,

He'd be the first indie character.
He'd be our first western third party and could possibly open the door to other ones such as Crash and Banjo...
Microsoft owns him, meaning if he got in, Banjo probably wouldn't be too far behind

He kinda strikes three birds with one stone if you get what I mean.
He might not become the most hype reveal, but he'd definitely be among the most groundbreaking

 

[osby]

What would blow Smash 4's reveals out of the water? I thought that was done right after Mr. "Too Big for Smash" got revealed.

But seriously, if Ridley didn't sell you on Ultimate having the better newcomers, K. Rool should've finished the job.

They didn't but I can see why people can think like that. Though I still wonder why did they choose Ridley for E3 reveal, his popularity isn't global like Simon or K.Rool.

 

[CosmicQuark]

What would blow Smash 4's reveals out of the water? I thought that was done right after Mr. "Too Big for Smash" got revealed.

But seriously, if Ridley didn't sell you on Ultimate having the better newcomers, K. Rool should've finished the job.

It depends on where you're coming from as a fan. As someone who never played Metroid, I'm glad a long-awaited fan character got in, even if it doesn't appeal to me personally. Similarly with King K Rool--I had Donkey Kong 64, but couldn't play it because I didn't have the expansion pak. In another universe, I'm more hyped for King K Rool than I am for Banjo. Dems the roll of the dice, particularly in a version with limited newcomers.

EDIT:

They didn't but I can see why people can think like that. Though I still wonder why did they choose Ridley for E3 reveal, his popularity isn't global like Simon or K.Rool.

I think it's fitting given E3 is more Western-centric. Sakurai did try to time the reveal of the August Direct for Japanese audiences. I think it makes sense in that regard, though my curiosity is if we don't have that many newcomers left, why front-load all the reveals.

 

[PsySmasher]

One image for ya,

He'd be the first indie character.
He'd be our first western third party and could possibly open the door to other ones such as Crash, and Banjo...
Microsoft owns him, meaning if he got in, Banjo probably wouldn't be too far behind

He kinda strikes three birds with one stone if you get what I mean.
He might not become the most hype reveal, but he'd definitely be among the most groundbreaking

It's kind of funny that a good chunk of people in the Smash community would probably be more excited for the new possibilities for characters instead of Steve himself getting in.

 

[KingofKoopas]

What would blow Smash 4's reveals out of the water. Like getting all of those non-nintendo characters from nowhere. What would seal this or these reveals as nuts??

Would have to be something absolutely none of us was expecting at all.. something no leaker has leaked, no speculator as theorized, and none of us could ever predict.. what was the name of that Sin and Punishment character again?

 

[Yoshisaurus Rex]

Would have to be something absolutely none of us was expecting at all.. something no leaker has leaked, no speculator as theorized, and none of us could ever predict.. what was the name of that Sin and Punishment character again?

The only character that comes to mind is Kratos.

I was gonna put Saki but Ramen beat me to it.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

why front-load all the reveals.

It kinda makes sense from a marketing standpoint. You wanna make sure your customer buys your game? Get the most hype worthy stuff out of the way that way, they'd be more content with getting the game...

Would have to be something absolutely none of us was expecting at all.. something no leaker has leaked, no speculator as theorized, and none of us could ever predict.. what was the name of that Sin and Punishment character again?

Saki, I believe...

 

[Fenriraga]

Man, you know what I'm NOT looking forward to?

The inevitable "newcomer who ends up being low tier that everyone makes fun of". I remember people insisting Sonic was the worst character in the game back in Brawl, despite being decidedly mid tier. Just people going "Lol, you all wanted this character so bad and he ended up being trash, that's so funny to me for some reason, why do you play their horrible ass lol"

"...Because I go to torunaments to have fun?"

"LMAO this isn't about fun it's about WINNING pick someone other than low tier trash"

I'm especially worried for and considering their status as big boys is already a detrament.

 

[Pyra]

Man, you know what I'm NOT looking forward to?

The inevitable "newcomer who ends up being low tier that everyone makes fun of". I remember people insisting Sonic was the worst character in the game back in Brawl, despite being decidedly mid tier. Just people going "Lol, you all wanted this character so bad and he ended up being trash, that's so funny to me for some reason, why do you play their horrible *** lol"

"...Because I go to torunaments to have fun?"

"LMAO this isn't about fun it's about WINNING pick someone other than low tier trash"

I'm especially worried for and considering their status as big boys is already a detrament.

makes me remember the good ol' days of spanking people with pichu

 

[KingofKoopas]

The only character that comes to mind is Kratos.

I was gonna put Saki but Ramen beat me to it.

Kratos would be too divisive even if it was possible. Plus which one, Angry Boi or Old Man?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Master Chief and....*Sigh* as much as I hate to say it Goku would also blow the internet up too.

 

[osby]

Man, you know what I'm NOT looking forward to?

The inevitable "newcomer who ends up being low tier that everyone makes fun of". I remember people insisting Sonic was the worst character in the game back in Brawl, despite being decidedly mid tier. Just people going "Lol, you all wanted this character so bad and he ended up being trash, that's so funny to me for some reason, why do you play their horrible *** lol"

"...Because I go to torunaments to have fun?"

"LMAO this isn't about fun it's about WINNING pick someone other than low tier trash"

I'm especially worried for and considering their status as big boys is already a detrament.

I'm not looking forward for tournaments and tier lists to start for this exact reason.

Also, can people make their mind? Are you going to make fun of people for using low tier characters or shame them for using top tier characters?
Or be a decent human being and let everyone play who the **** they want?

 

[KingofKoopas]

Master Chief and....*Sigh* as much as I hate to say it Goku would also blow the internet up too.

In all the wrong ways..

 

[Cosmic77]

They didn't but I can see why people can think like that. Though I still wonder why did they choose Ridley for E3 reveal, his popularity isn't global like Simon or K.Rool.

Well, E3 takes place in NA. Not a huge suprise that Nintendo wanted to get the ball rolling with someone the West really wanted, as that's where a majority of Smash's sales come from.

Although, K. Rool probably could've been just as effective. Simon, though? Even though he's a third-party, he's not even close to the same level of hype as the other two.

It depends on where you're coming from as a fan. As someone who never played Metroid, I'm glad a long-awaited fan character got in, even if it doesn't appeal to me personally. Similarly with King K Rool--I had Donkey Kong 64, but couldn't play it because I didn't have the expansion pak. In another universe, I'm more hyped for King K Rool than I am for Banjo. Dems the roll of the dice, particularly in a version with limited newcomers.

EDIT:


I think it's fitting given E3 is more Western-centric. Sakurai did try to time the reveal of the August Direct for Japanese audiences. I think it makes sense in that regard, though my curiosity is if we don't have that many newcomers left, why front-load all the reveals.

Smash 4 had more newcomers than any prior Smash game, and yet that game had my least favorite list of additions.

Ultimate might have a smaller cast of newcomers, but I feel like it's done a pretty decent job of following quality over quantity. Yeah, I know everyone is different, but it's nice seeing all these highly requested characters finally get in Smash. Smash 4 just didn't have that same appeal. Felt like every other character was either someone Sakurai himself wanted, or someone who got in because of relevancy. Not many blatant fanservice characters.

 

[Pyra]

Master Chief and....*Sigh* as much as I hate to say it Goku would also blow the internet up too.

In all the wrong ways..

I'll throw a Goku party and plaster these kinds of posts over my wall to look at as party favors


I'm joking, but I also genuinely would like Goku.

Edit: What a way to start a page