Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Enchess]

Lists a bunch of Zelda characters including Groose of all things but skips on Vaati...

Vaati is the only recurring main character missing. I know Nintendo doesn't acknowledge him, by why the **** doesnt the Zelda fanbase either.

 

[KMDP]

As far as the Classics ( or 2D games in general ) go which is where Sonic's moveset is based on they play largely the same; in Sonic 2 they play exactly the same

Tails in Sonic 2 is sort of like Lucina if you take away the tipper mechanic difference.

Tails is technically shorter than Sonic, but the instances where it makes a difference are vanishingly rare (there are times when Tails being shorter actually works to his advantage in Sonic 2).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Anybody from Zelda? Careful what you wish for or you might get Tingle.

He's one of my favorite Zelda characters, so...

I just don't like him all that much in WW. The other games he's awesome in.

 

[Idon]

Vaati is the only recurring main character missing. I know Nintendo doesn't acknowledge him, by why the **** doesnt the Zelda fanbase either.

Because aint nobody played 4 Swords or Minish Cap.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

People who thinks FE has more characters due to bias are ignoring a lot.

It's mostly due to fortunate timing, ease of creation and developmental criteria.

Basically, half the Fire Emblem characters we get are really lucky.

 

[MainJPW]

I’d almost prefer Tails as a Sonic semi-clone/echo. I know him best from Sonic 2, and I really want to see orange-ball-with-tails spin dashes.

Just throw Peach’s float on and he’s good in my book.

Aww, I want Tails so bad. He’s my ‘most deserving’

Same. I don’t care if he’s a clone or unique, he’s been both ( though he’s usually Sonic with flight and lack of Insta Shield or Peel Out ) and honestly he used Spin Dash in more games than not so it probably wouldn’t feel right if he didn’t make use of it in his moveset. Would be cool if they threw in his arm cannon though.

I also just realized I said forward tilt twice. Windup Punch is the Forward Smash lol.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Because aint nobody played 4 Swords or Minish Cap.

Minish Cap is the best top down Zelda.

Fight me.

 

[RandomAce]

Anybody from Zelda? Careful what you wish for or you might get Tingle.

You can’t deny this sexy beast

As i huge Zelda fan, i've always been satisfied with the number of Zelda rep in smash. Just not really satisfied about some minor things (mostly related to respecting the source material) like the Dorf being a heavy hitter version of Cpt Falcon... i mean if he was like that in the games i'd understand but he never punches or kicks anyone, he mostly uses magic and a sword (or 2). Zelda's moveset is cool and all (not much to pick from in term of moveset in the LoZ games) but she's always been trash tier (just ask any Zelda main)(this could change with Ultimate tho).

About the Links, the only thing that bugs me is that Y and TLink are still too similar. OH! and Sheik should have a Deku Nut instead of that weird whip thing...

Every other Zelda newcomers would be extra icing on an already delicious cake.

Yeah, at this point Zelda feels “complete” in that sense with , , and .

However, I do like the idea of having someone else join the ranks though. Girahim is sadly an AT, but at least there’s Impa, who is sort of the 4th Zelda character, reoccurring in a lot of games.

 

[KingofKoopas]

Maybe the Big N should announce directs and other such things a week in advanced instead of the night before so we don't go crazy and cannibalize each other.

 

[Deleted member]

Minish Cap is the best top down Zelda.

Fight me.

Nah, best top down Zelda is A Link Between Worlds.
*cracks knuckles*

 

[ZephyrZ]

Imagine if Vaati was an echo of Captain Falcon, but with his gimmick being that he has a bunch of janky, inconsistent windboxes on his attacks instead of fire properties.

It'll never happen, but the thought still amuses me greatly. That'll be a character for my joke rosters.

Vaati is the only recurring main character missing. I know Nintendo doesn't acknowledge him, by why the **** doesnt the Zelda fanbase either.

3D Zelda games tend to get a lot more attention from the fanbase then post-ALTP 2D games since the 3D ones tend to be bigger and more ambitious.

Not to say that I didn't enjoy the Minish Cap.

 

[Idon]

Imagine if Vaati was an echo of Captain Falcon, but with his gimmick being that he has a bunch of janky, inconsistent windboxes on his attacks instead of fire properties.

It'll never happen, but the thought still amuses me greatly. That'll be a character for my joke rosters.
3D Zelda games tend to get a lot more attention from the fanbase then post-ALTP 2D games since the 3D ones tend to be bigger and more ambitious.

Not to say that I didn't enjoy the Minish Cap.

Yeah just, make every Zelda villain a Captain Falcon clone.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

People who thinks FE has more characters due to bias are ignoring a lot.

It's mostly due to fortunate timing, ease of creation and developmental criteria.

Basically, half the Fire Emblem characters we get are really lucky.

Literally 4 of them are marth, Corrin was kind of overkill being the only dlc first party newcomer but the choice is understandable.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Nah, best top down Zelda is A Link Between Worlds.
*cracks knuckles*

Maybe if your taste is bad.

 

[Makai Wars]

I'd like Vaati thanks to personal bias but it's kind of wild that we haven't gotten Midna on Wolf Link despite her enduring popularity and the potential of Midna herself. Zelda has also had a rotating cast of important characters like FE and Midna was as much of a main character as Rosalina or Lucina or Palutena, I really do wonder why she didn't make the cut and yet we have 3 characters from FE: Awakening.

 

[Ring-a-Sheep]

Literally 4 of them are marth.

I didn't know robin and ike were marth clones you could argue roy is a semi-clone

 

[Makai Wars]

I didn't know robin and ike were marth clones

 

[MainJPW]

Marth is a Marth clone confirmed.

 

[CosmicQuark]

The @Zinith mantra: "all leaks are fake until proven real".

Pretty much.

I think this is less appreciated than it should be. We only know if something is *true* when given official confirmation, and so we never know if a leak is real until it's been confirmed. We can say it's likely/plausible, unlikely/implausible. But the differentiation between rumors and leaks is leaks are early releases of information, whereas rumors are uncertain information (read: not necessarily false, just no means of corroboration/confirmation). So technically at this point we can't claim anything is a real leak until it's been confirmed, no matter how likely/plausible. It's only after the fact.

As an example, CoroCoro saying there's 108 stages--that's as almost as official as it can get. And the only reason we doubt it's authenticity is it seems to contradict with other sources of information that claim 103, including an interpretation from the August Direct, so it could be a typo, but then you'd expect a correction to avoid false advertisement. However, at this point, we can't claim it's an accidental release of information--until we know if it's true with it being confirmed (or deconfirmed). It's what can make speculation so frustrating--but fun when you accept the uncertainties and just enjoy the ride.

 

[Ring-a-Sheep]

roy is a semi-clone at best and chrom is an echo of roy, with some ike thrown in.

 

[Aurane]

Maybe if your taste is bad.

This ain't it, sensei.

 

[Makai Wars]

Marth is a Marth clone confirmed.

"4 of FE's reps are Marth"
Shocking news, Marth is Marth and is included in the official Marth lineup because he counts as a Marth.

roy is a semi-clone at best

Yes, of Marth.

 

[Deleted member]

Maybe if your taste is bad.

Are these the words of someone whose Mama has been feeding them bull**** all their life?

 

[Noipoi]

Marth is a Marth clone confirmed.

Marth has so many clones he became his own clone.

 

[MainJPW]

"4 of FE's reps are Marth"
Shocking news, Marth is Marth and is included in the official Marth lineup because he counts as a Marth.

I know, I’m just being a clown.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

He's one of my favorite Zelda characters, so...

I just don't like him all that much in WW. The other games he's awesome in.

He even has a less annoying version (technically it's Purlo but Aonuma stated it was a more 'realistic' representation of Tingle)

Minish Cap is the best top down Zelda.

Fight me.

Minish Cap is a freakin masterpiece.

Vaati is the only recurring main character missing.

Maybe i'm wrong but i assume it could be a 'Geno' situation where Capcom owns the character or something...

 

[Danpal65]

Minish Cap is the best top down Zelda.

Fight me.

Whole heartedly agree! Ezlo is fantastic, the Minish are adorable and I stand by the fact that after Ganon/Ganondorf Vaati is the best Zelda villain.

 

[Aurane]

Martha is a clone of Link's grappling hook.

 

[osby]

I love how "Marth clone" is the new "Landmaster"

 

[Shroob]

Maybe if Zelda actually had a re-occuring character besides the Triforce Trio.



Honestly, I 'get' why Sakurai doesn't pick certain fan favorite Zelda characters... mostly because they'll be in that one game, and never again.



We're most likely never going to have another Zelda game with Midna.

We're most likely never going to have another Zelda game with Ghirahim.

We're most likely never going to have another Zelda game with the 4 Champions.


Etc


The closest thing that can even come close are Skull Kid and Tingle, and Skull Kid just barely, being an NPC/enemy in 2 of his games.



TINGLE is the closest thing to an actual solid Zelda-character with multiple appearances over multiple timelines.




The difference with Fire Emblem is said characters are the protagonist, and Pokemon are Pokemon.

 

[RandomAce]

Thinking about the Fire Emblem roster, we probably would’ve gotten around 4, maybe 5 if you count want to include Chrom into the count as an echo.

ultchrom:

But you maybe wondering, who the 5th one is? And who is Chrom supposed to be echoing? Well that is:

Leif

You see, while was fortunate enough for being available at the time. Roy wasn’t the character that was originally going to clone Marth. Turns out, Sakurai during development wanted to include Leif as the clone for Marth, it was only when he want to IS to get permission when he found out about Roy and went with him instead.

Thinking about, I wish Sakurai sticked with Leif. He looks awesome and distinct with his Brown hair and White outfit, and would’ve worked well with the reverse tipper mechanics as he’s more “younger” than Marth.

 

[Ring-a-Sheep]

Yes, of Marth.

Roy's return in smash 4 made him much more distinct from marth to the point where he is what lucas is to ness, literally the only FE char 100% derivative of marth right now is lucina

 

[Schnee117]

Martha

Why did you say that name?!

 

[Swamp Sensei]

You see, while was fortunate enough for being available at the time. Roy wasn’t the character that was originally going to clone Marth. Turns out, Sakurai during development wanted to include Leif as the clone for Marth, it was only when he want to IS to get permission when he found out about Roy and went with him instead.

Believe it or not, that's actually not true.

 

[Deleted member]

Alright, joking aside, Minish Cap is fun. It’s not my favorite but the game is pretty good. I’d probably rate it as my third favorite 2D Zelda.

 

[Idon]

Thinking about the Fire Emblem roster, we probably would’ve gotten around 4, maybe 5 if you count want to include Chrom into the count as an echo.

ultchrom:

But you maybe wondering, who the 5th one is? And who is Chrom supposed to be echoing? Well that is:
View attachment 169052
Leif

You see, while was fortunate enough for being available at the time. Roy wasn’t the character that was originally going to clone Marth. Turns out, Sakurai during development wanted to include Leif as the clone for Marth, it was only when he want to IS to get permission when he found out about Roy and went with him instead.

Thinking about, I wish Sakurai sticked with Leif. He looks awesome and distinct with his Brown hair and White outfit, and would’ve worked well with the reverse tipper mechanics as he’s more “younger” than Marth.

OH COME ON, I WOULD'VE WAY PREFERRED LEIF.
GODDAMMIT, WHY DID THE ADVERTISEMENT SMASH OC GET IN.

 

[Danpal65]

Maybe if Zelda actually had a re-occuring character besides the Triforce Trio.



Honestly, I 'get' why Sakurai doesn't pick certain fan favorite Zelda characters... mostly because they'll be in that one game, and never again.



We're most likely never going to have another Zelda game with Midna.

We're most likely never going to have another Zelda game with Ghirahim.

We're most likely never going to have another Zelda game with the 4 Champions.


Etc


The closest thing that can even come close are Skull Kid and Tingle, and Skull Kid just barely, being an NPC/enemy in 2 of his games.



TINGLE is the closest thing to an actual solid Zelda-character with multiple appearances over multiple timelines.




The difference with Fire Emblem is said characters are the protagonist, and Pokemon are Pokemon.

Outside of Ganon/Ganondorf Vaati is the only other villain to make multiple appearances, even if they haven't all been in his Wind Mage form. That's why I think it is a crime he's so overlooked.

 

[Deleted member]

Thinking about the Fire Emblem roster, we probably would’ve gotten around 4, maybe 5 if you count want to include Chrom into the count as an echo.

ultchrom:

But you maybe wondering, who the 5th one is? And who is Chrom supposed to be echoing? Well that is:
View attachment 169052
Leif

You see, while was fortunate enough for being available at the time. Roy wasn’t the character that was originally going to clone Marth. Turns out, Sakurai during development wanted to include Leif as the clone for Marth, it was only when he want to IS to get permission when he found out about Roy and went with him instead.

Thinking about, I wish Sakurai sticked with Leif. He looks awesome and distinct with his Brown hair and White outfit, and would’ve worked well with the reverse tipper mechanics as he’s more “younger” than Marth.

Uhh...Do you have a source for that story? Cause I don’t remember hearing about this at all.

 

[Shroob]

Outside of Ganon/Ganondorf Vaati is the only other villain to make multiple appearances, even if they haven't all been in his Wind Mage form. That's why I think it is a crime he's so overlooked.

Isn't Vaati in a bit of a Geno scenario, or am I wrong?

Every game that Vaati's been in was partly made with Capcom, no?

 

[Aurane]

Why did you say that name?!

Because I have auto correct on and I didn't feel like editing it.