Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[N3ON]

A major reason why people thought the music theory had substance is because the AC remix got purposely held back until after Isabelle's reveal. There's absolutely no way that wasn't planned. I don't think it's fair to glance at the surface of this theory and call anyone who believed it "impressively delusional" when it's already proven to have at least a little substance to it.

Regardless of the FE track, I still believe the Music Theory has substance. We might not be getting one track per series like we had thought (meaning newcomers can no longer be narrowed down), but I fully expect new upcoming tracks to go along with any newcomers revealed around that time. In other words, if we get a Pokemon rep, I feel safe in saying we'll also get a Pokemon remix shortly after.

That's not the theory though, because the theory existed to help indicate which series would and would not receive new representation. Tracks being tied to a character is just a building block, but one useless for speculation without the former element, as the key "process of elimination" part is gone.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

But those characters could still be in, Music Theory changed nothing about their chances. Positively or Negatively.

They’re still possible, but their chances and expectations are further down the ground than the respect Lucina and Female Robin had for Chrom before he met Captain Falcon

This "credible source" doesn't actually change the end result. It being wrong just prevents unnecessary false expectations

false expectations has been apart of this entire Smash Ultimate wait (with only Verge being a piece of hope and happiness), but compared to a majority of the rest, the music theory was actually working well

Also unrelated...but why do you always seem negative (not even a “thinking real” kind of thing, just something negative)

Nobody is willing to even consider the chances of smaller series like Golden Sun normally. Eliminating the big or already represented franchises from consideration is the only way people here are even open to the possibility of anything else.

See: me repeatedly being told that I should give up on hoping for another Nintendo IP (yes, I know it's unlikely, and yes, this is a disappointing roster if we don't get it)

Exactly

What's your dream? That Medusa can be a semi-clone or that her number is 69?

Well Sakurai is gonna have to choose between Medusa or Viridi as the 69th unique character

 

[Enchess]

A major reason why people thought the music theory had substance is because the AC remix got purposely held back until after Isabelle's reveal. There's absolutely no way that wasn't planned. I don't think it's fair to glance at the surface of this theory and call anyone who believed it "impressively delusional" when it's already proven to have at least a little substance to it possibly being true.

Regardless of the FE track, I still believe the Music Theory has substance. We might not be getting one track per series like we had thought (meaning newcomers can no longer be narrowed down), but I fully expect new upcoming tracks to go along with any newcomers revealed around that time. In other words, if we get a Pokemon rep, I feel safe in saying we'll also get a Pokemon remix shortly after.

If you saw my post on qualities of useful predictors, the issue with that is the adjusted theory no longer makes predictions on what is in the game, only what's in the blog. Only the willingly blind music theory detractors denied that we'll get a remix with unique newcomers and said it was pure coincidence. Of course we will likely get a song with each unique newcomer. But if we can get multiple songs per franchise on the blog, we can no longer use this to predict game content.

 

[PsySmasher]

Or maybe it means not everybody gives a damn about Fire Emblem, a franchise which owes it's popularity in the west to Smash in the first place

Over-represented. Three characters was enough, especially when Zelda, Nintendo's #3 most important franchise, only has 6 compared to Trash Emblem's 7.

Taste is subjective. You like anime waifu simulator, I don't. Ain't no reason to throw shade at each other over it.

*Posts about not throwing shade at FE fans*
*Throws shade at FE fans*
*Looks at profile pic*

...

 

[Pyra]

image for those too lazy to check the post

I can't see the character behind that honkin' nose

 

[Luigi The President]

That was the intention, yes. Congrats, you get a cookie!



Nah, I just don't need four more Marths added to the damn roster when characters who actually matter in the grand scheme of things aren't there mate



Nah, I just don't like the style of game Fire Emblem is. Nor do I care about it's dry, lazy, lousily-written stories or bland, fetish-friendly characters.

"bland, fetish-friendly characters"

oh so now the BNHA stan is gonna preach to us

 

[Idon]

A slow, heavy hitting Celica just wouldn't be right.

Who's to say Celica secretly wasn't eating all that food when she offered it to Mila?

 

[Waluigi is not getting in]

That was the intention, yes. Congrats, you get a cookie!



Nah, I just don't need four more Marths added to the damn roster when characters who actually matter in the grand scheme of things aren't there mate



Nah, I just don't like the style of game Fire Emblem is. Nor do I care about it's dry, lazy, lousily-written stories or bland, fetish-friendly characters.

"Fetish friendly characters" Ironic you say that considering your profile pic

 

[Capybara Gaming]

*Posts about not throwing shade at FE fans*
*Throws shade at FE fans*
*Looks at profile pic*

...

At no point did I ever say I disliked anime

Fire Emblem is just a slog to get through. *yawn* Trying to play one just makes me want to go to sleep.

 

[Deleted member]

Friendly reminder, useful predictors (using as blanket term for theories and leaks) have some features:
1 - They follow a clear pattern (with leaks the pattern is "the characters ___ said", so true by default on leaks)
2 - They have a logical explanation for why the pattern might be intentional (trivially true for leaks, strongly true for box and music theory, imo weakly true for blog theory)
3 - They make predictions that can later be used as evidence for/against them (was true for music, got killed by it. There's a problem here for blog. Too much wiggle room to the point you can't tell if pattern holds)

Spoiler

The strongest predictors are those that are strongest in these categories. #1 is a huge issue for almost every "similar" theory people brought up to discredit box or music theories, which is why box/music theorists feel like opponents are being willfully dense sometimes.

#2 for leakers, despite being trivially true, is much much stronger for leakers who can explain logically how they obtained info. More believable the explanation, the stronger the leak is as a predictor. For theories, #2 is another crucial difference between music/blog/box theories and strawmen theories. Sure, there are other patterns people can find, but unless you can provide solid reasoning for why they are intentional like music/blog/box, you are just proving you don't understand music/blog/box by using those as counters.

#3 is obviously the reason Verg is by far the strongest predictor so far. We have gotten results using him as a predictor. This so far is a to be seen on box/blog. For music, it was actually a strong point in favor, especially with the delay on Isabelle's music. The theory predicted strong coupling between music and reveals and that delay showed that the two are almost certainly not decoupled, even if Music Theory is deconfirmed. Ironically, the strongest of these three aspects of predictors for Music Theory became it's weakest aspect, so much so that's it's completely sunk at this point.

TL;DR - please keep in mind that music/blog/box theories aren't just arbitrary patterns and (up till now for music) they actually had merit in other categories in which we can judge predictors.

I can agree...to an extent. Box Theory has many interesting ideas behind it and that is why I am entertaining it as a plausible scenario, but to claim predictions and opinions on a subject as evidence? I dunno, I guess I have a different definition of evidence than some, then. To me, evidence is irrefutable proof that cannot reasonably be argued with and is corroborated by something, which speculation and opinion is not.

Probability and chance are concepts that are based off of individual bias and speculation. Person A can say something has a "50% chance" to happen, while person B can say there's a "100% chance". Neither one can really be right due to the nature of chance being a pretty loose and subjective concept for most things in the first place, and can only be verified if something corroborated by factual proof is presented.

To each their own, I suppose.

 

[CannonStreak]

That's not the issue. They're closer then, say, .

The problem is that they don't share fightong styles. A slow, heavy hitting Celica just wouldn't be right.Oh boy, this again.

Sonic fans are manchildren, Pokemon fans are mindless zombies, and FE fans are thirsty weeaboo trash. Or so the stereotypes say.

I agree with what you said about Sonic fans, except I am far from being a manchild myself. I am much more mature than many of those in the Sonic fanbase, not counting those who are not manchildren, so no offense to them. Plus, not every Sonic fan is a manchild.

Just wanted to point that out.

 

[Cosmic77]

Sonic fans are manchildren, Pokemon fans are mindless zombies, and FE fans are thirsty weeaboo trash. Or so the stereotypes say.

To be fair, the Japanese version of Fates didn't do the series any favors. Kinda hard to defend IS not pushing obnoxious fanservice when they include a special feature that allows you to literally breathe into the face of your favorite waifu.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Nah, I just don't like the style of game Fire Emblem is. Nor do I care about it's dry, lazy, lousily-written stories or bland, fetish-friendly characters.

Spoken like someone who only knows FE from the worst parts of Awakening and Fates.

You don't have to like FE, but can you at least be a nice person about it? No need to get so nasty.

 

[Pazzo.]

Two things can be true at once.

Fire Emblem can be an important series to both Nintendo and Smash and be an anime waifu simulator.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

"Fetish friendly characters" Ironic you say that considering your profile pic

A superhero with a badass power and an incredible mind is fetish-friendly how?

 

[Schnee117]

Nah, I just don't like the style of game Fire Emblem is.

Not surprised you don't like something where you have to actually think about what you're doing.

 

[Potato_]

"bland, fetish-friendly characters"

oh so now the BNHA stan is gonna preach to us

I like MHA, and to be fair, yeah.

Momo's costume has a canon reasoning as to why it's like that, same with Midnight. But that **** is blatant fanservice, I'll admit it.

Also, none of you are going to get him to change his opinion on this. No point in doing this AGAIN and cluttering the thread with another pointless argument.

 

[Captain Fun]

Not gonna lie, the people salty about FE give me life. The more the merrier, I say.

 

[Chandeelure]

Kirby fans are Chads.

 

[Luigi The President]

I like MHA, and to be fair, yeah.

Momo's costume has a canon reasoning as to why it's like that, same with Midnight. But that **** is blatant fanservice, I'll admit it.

She's not even 18 lol but I'm sure stating that an underage character wearing a skimpy outfit like that is creepy AF will cause some sort of discourse so whatever

I also enjoy MHA. Need to catch up on it. But let's not act like MHA fans are somehow more "holy" then the Degenerate Fire Emblem Fools

 

[Pyra]

"bland, fetish-friendly characters"

oh so now the BNHA stan is gonna preach to us

leave My Hero Academia alone

 

[lightdrago]

A superhero with a badass power and an incredible mind is fetish-friendly how?

You’ve seen her hero outfit right? It’s not a hard connection to make.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Drop the Fire Emblem debate. This is just getting into flaming territory.

Also, please respect other people's opinions. That includes not trying to rile up others with clearly exaggerated hatred towards a series. You don't have to like a series. Don't try and start an argument over it, however.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

I like MHA, and to be fair, yeah.

Momo's costume has a canon reasoning as to why it's like that, same with Midnight. But that **** is blatant fanservice, I'll admit it.

And notice how my profile pic is neither Midnight nor Momo in her hero costume

Not surprised you don't like something where you have to actually think about what you're doing.

Favorite games: Overwatch, Kingdom Hearts 2, Smash Bros.

But by all means, tell me how the games I play are completely mindless and I don't have to think about what I'm doing

 

[Luigi The President]

leave My Hero Academia alone

If you truly love something, then it's good to criticize it.
MHA's one of the best animes I've seen in a long time. Still very open to criticism.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

My Hero Academia is best anime ever. No one talks trash about it when I'm around!

 

[Noipoi]

At no point did I ever say I disliked anime

Fire Emblem is just a slog to get through. *yawn* Trying to play one just makes me want to go to sleep.

Buddy, it's not that important.
Chill out man it's just video games. There's no need to be upset.

 

[Luigi The President]

Anyway.

Let's just go back to a Sora vs Geno debate I'm tired. Which one should be the Square Enix rep

 

[ZephyrZ]

To be fair, the Japanese version of Fates didn't do the series any favors. Kinda hard to defend IS not pushing obnoxious fanservice when they include a special feature that allows you to literally breathe into the face of your favorite waifu.

I'm not defending IS, I'm really not a huge fan of a lot of their decisions. I hate that that feature exists, and I know there's many other FE fans who do as well - the backlash within the FE community when it first got shown was nasty.

I'm defending myself, and all other FE fans out there, who like the franchise for reasons other then the waifu bait. There's a lot of us.

Edit: The mod post wasn't up yet when I typed this. I'll drop it now.

 

[Waluigi is not getting in]

A superhero with a badass power and an incredible mind is fetish-friendly how?

Because she has to flash her **** to use said abilities

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Anyway.

Let's just go back to a Sora vs Geno debate I'm tired. Which one should be the Square Enix rep

Geno since Sora is actually a Disney rep not Square Enix.

 

[N3ON]

Anyway.

Let's just go back to a Sora vs Geno debate I'm tired. Which one should be the Square Enix rep

Crono

 

[Luigi The President]

Geno since Sora is actually a Disney rep not Square Enix.

ACKACKACK HERE IT COMES FELLAS

Crono

Respect actually

 

[Fastblade5035]

Anyway.

Let's just go back to a Sora vs Geno debate I'm tired. Which one should be the Square Enix rep

Cooking Mama

 

[Capybara Gaming]

You’ve seen her hero outfit right? It’s not a hard connection to make.

Gee it's almost like a character can actually be well-written and still be attractive

I like Momo as a character, not because of her body

 

[Pazzo.]

Why can't we be Thirsty Weeaboo Trash?

As far as I'm aware, all Fire Emblem fans have a bit of the weeb inside them.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeesh, I think I'm gonna call it for a while. This FE nonsense has nastiness going on on both sides, and it's really disappointing to see some are actually insulting people's intelligence for not liking the things they like.

If you like FE, cool. If you don't also cool. Why jump at each other's throats for personal taste in a video game of all things?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Cooking Mama

Cooking Mama feels more like she'd be an assist trophy tbh then a playable character.

 

[AugustusB]

image for those too lazy to check the post

That is an actual good picture.

Can't seem to find it anywhere in the immediate google search. Still looking in Deviant art (God help me)

Also comparing this to Sonic's render on the website...I think the fur texture is the same detail.

IDK gang...I'll say this is interesting. Do I believe it? Not yet I dont.

 

[Waluigi is not getting in]

leave My Hero Academia alone

Hunter x hunter 2011 is better