Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Hinata]

My question about Gen 8 is.... how are they going to implement the Ultra Beasts?


Like, I LOVED the Ultra Beasts, but, they're REALLY bizarre, even for Pokemon's standards.


The way they did it in USUM was perfect where you just 'went' to their homeworlds.... Are we going to have an ayylmao invasion in every Pokemon generation postgame from this point onwards?

The same way they implement all their cool ideas in games past the ones they debuted in. A passing mention in the post game that you could easily miss, and then they'll just kinda exist in the world from that point on.

They did it with Mega Evolutions post Gen 6, and they'll probably do it with Alolan forms too.

 

[Shroob]

***** I will school you with my Ojama ABC Buster Dragon de-
View attachment 168690
are you ****ing for real

Pft, my Pendulum Magician deck has been hit three times now, and all my cards value ****ing tanked.


Know true pain.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

So we are waiting now for 10EST for a possible direct announcement? Sinec the Big House 8 didnt reveal jack squat?.

Pretty much. If nothing is announced tomorrow or Tuesday then I expect we won't get anything until Late October most likely the final Smash Direct which would be wise to prevent the entire roster being leaked in November.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

They could possibly have an open world pokemon where stronger tiered pokemon are technically around to find early on but add roadblocks in catching them like making them significantly stronger or make it so they can only be caught by Ultra Balls or something

 

[Will]

Nope. Think of it this way.
in Pokemon you usually travel through routes to get to cities to fight gyms, right? All I want is for those routes and forests and cities and whatever to be bigger, with a sidequest here and there. Not a huge sandbox collection game, just more to esplore.

Actually, there's more to it than "open world" for me. Rather than having a large ass region to trek through, I just want to be able to do any city in any order that I please. I mean, that's still "open". Nefarious organizations will obviously still be a thing and still be scripted in certain parts, but I at least want to choose where and when.

 

[Idon]

I wonder if Z-moves are gonna be a thing from now on like Mega Evolution is.

Honestly, not a fan of them. They really felt copy-pasted. I'd rather a cool transformation that changes a character radically than a supermove that's copy-pasted across the entire cast.

Of course, I'm a bigger fan of just giving older pokemon new evolutions, but gen 4 seems to be the last gen gamefreak wants to do that.

 

[AndreaAC]

Well considering Meltan is Gen 7 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

xD It is? Oops.

 

[amazonevan19]

Having a pokemon game in a similar vein to BoTW where you still have a story to go through and a definite progression to do is what I like. BoTW still had a plot path but it didn't matter which order you did the legendary beasts in. I think when we're all saying "open world pokemon" we don't necessarily mean I can go catch mewtwo at the start of the game. We're wanting a Xenoblade like world to explore and the freedom to tackle the story in whatever order we wish to.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I wonder if Z-moves are gonna be a thing from now on like Mega Evolution is.

Honestly, not a fan of them. They really felt copy-pasted. I'd rather a cool transformation that changes a character radically than a supermove that's copy-pasted across the entire cast.

Of course, I'm a bigger fan of just giving older pokemon new evolutions, but gen 4 seems to be the last gen gamefreak wants to do that.

If they continue Z moves, they really should make seperate special and physical z moves. It doesn't make sense to use Z-Hyper Beam and have the pokemon doing a running tackle at the opponent

 

[Deleted member]

The team that worked on USUM wasn't the core Pokemon development team, they were instead working on Gen 8, that's where that comes from

Huh. Either way, development seems to be longer than usual mainline Pokemon games, that's for sure.

 

[Wyoming]

Pokemon's progression and level system don't really lend themselves to an open world.

The entirety of Pokemon's evolution, growth, moves and such are all designed on linear progression. Like, some Pokemon are objectively better than others. If the game is open world, what's stopping the player from stacking the deck, so to speak, and just throwing themselves at powerful Pokemon until they happen to catch it by chance, immediately after they start and then trivializing game balance in general.

BotW prevents this by having the same reward no matter what, or the reward never being too powerful to crush the progression of the player. Pokemon's problem is better solved by having more extra side paths, postgame and harder extra trainers then just going full open world. Give places to explore that only give rare Pokemon or items, or maybe just some tiny bits of lore or character development to find.

To me its like suggesting Metroid, Star Fox or F-Zero go open world. It shows a lack of understanding of the main elements of the series.

Nah for Star Fox's case it should definitely be an open world space explorer. It is 2018 and they built a vast world full of characters, planets, and weapons only to toss em aside.

 

[Noipoi]

The same way they implement all their cool ideas in games past the ones they debuted in. A passing mention in the post game that you could easily miss, and then they'll just kinda exist in the world from that point on.

They did it with Mega Evolutions post Gen 6, and they'll probably do it with Alolan forms too.

Nooo! Regional variants were so cool! I hope they do more, but knowing Gamefreak...

Actually, there's more to it than "open world" for me. Rather than having a large *** region to trek through, I just want to be able to do any city in any order that I please. I mean, that's still "open". Nefarious organizations will obviously still be a thing and still be scripted in certain parts, but I at least want to choose where and when.

That'd be really cool.

 

[Will]

Pft, my Pendulum Magician deck has been hit three times now, and all my cards value ****ing tanked.


Know true pain.

Actually OjamABC is playable with only one A-Assault, it's just way harder to spam ABC Dragon and/or Link Monsters. Jokes are really on you for cashing out on the mainstream hype. I've living off the bronze medal prize pretty good. Really the only deck I've had fun with since Gren Maju.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

They could possibly have an open world pokemon where stronger tiered pokemon are technically around to find early on but add roadblocks in catching them like making them significantly stronger or make it so they can only be caught by Ultra Balls or something

Then you get the Xenoblade problem. Having strong enemies around the lower level areas.

A lot of people love that, but a lot of people hate that too.

It works in Xenoblade since the playerbase is older and can thus figure out that they aren't supposed to fight the creature.

Considering Pokemon is also played by kids, they can't do that.

 

[Deleted member]

Generation 8 talk?

One word:

Whatever they do, I will love the game and sleep with it all night.

Also, I am fine with any Open World game, really.

 

[Shroob]

Actually OjamABC is playable with only one A-Assault, it's just way harder to spam ABC Dragon and/or Link Monsters. Jokes are really on you for cashing out on the mainstream hype. I've living off the bronze medal prize pretty good. Really the only deck I've had fun with since Gren Maju.

Hey now. I was playing 'em back when Zoodiac was meta. We were the trash deck until they hit Zoo.


But yeah, they hit A due to ****ing Firewall Dragon and Cannon Soldier causing an FTK, **** sucks.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Then you get the Xenoblade problem. Having strong enemies around the lower level areas.

A lot of people love that, but a lot of people hate that too.

It works in Xenoblade since the playerbase is older and can thus figure out that they aren't supposed to fight the creature.

Considering Pokemon is also played by kids, they can't do that.

If they are beaten up enough they should eventually learn to avoid it

 

[Swamp Sensei]

We're wanting a Xenoblade like world to explore and the freedom to tackle the story in whatever order we wish to.

But that isn't even close to what Xenoblade is.

Aside from X, Xenoblade is VERY linear.

 

[domriver]

Open World Pokemon RPG? Online?
Yes please.

 

[Will]

Nooo! Regional variants were so cool! I hope they do more, but knowing Gamefreak...


That'd be really cool.

I mean, think about it, the only real things that connect the plot and your way to becoming the region champion is the champion itself maybe coming down once in a while to wag their fingers at the villain and say "that's wroooooong". Otherwise I think you could totally become champion first and then catch the holy boxart pokemon later if you wanted to. Maybe it could be literally the first thing you could do, who knows?

 

[Zinith]

I will get Gen 8 Pokemon for the sole reason that it's a 1st party game on the Switch

 

[Danpal65]

Huh. Either way, development seems to be longer than usual mainline Pokemon games, that's for sure.

For sure and that makes me insanely happy. One of the most damaging things t the Pokemon franchise has been it becoming an annual thing.

 

[Hinata]

I expect with that whole Zeraora fake leak either tomorrow or late tonight I get a Smash video with the this title in my recommended:

LEAKED Smash Ultimate Characters?! PREDICTED BLOG & ISAAC DECONFIRMED? WITH EVIDENCE

Not quite the right title, but when you're right, you're right.

 

[Will]

But that isn't even close to what Xenoblade is.

Aside from X, Xenoblade is VERY linear.

It's linear until you have all those expiring side quests that you forgot about and you dont know when it's gonna expire or not so you do it like immediately before the region in question probably gets their **** wrecked.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

What happened to the amazing Tree Gelbman .

***** makes some of the most laughable jokes on here. I remember that one time when she made an origin story for Wii Fit Trainer, priceless.

Thanks.

But....

I'm a dude-y dude duderson.

 

[Noipoi]

I will get Gen 8 Pokemon for the sole reason that it's a 1st party game on the Switch

There's guaranteed to be at least one new reptile Pokemon, lucky you!

 

[amazonevan19]

Gen 1 was no pushover. And broadly speaking, kids in the 80s and 90s learned not to do stupid **** that made them die. Through trial and error you figured out strategies to beat the game.

Why can't a core series game do the same? Other than the fact that Lame Freak wants to dumb down Pokemon so that a two year old can play it, and make everyone else suffer in the process.

IK this is sounding like "back in my day" kind of **** but here I think it really is relevant. GF thinks they have to make Pokemon games easier so everyone can enjoy them, but it only makes the experience braindead easy. Really they should be either making easy-normal-hard modes or skippable tutorials - ask us at the start if we've played a pokemon game before and then ratchet up the difficulty if you hit "yes."

 

[Will]

Hey now. I was playing 'em back when Zoodiac was meta. We were the trash deck until they hit Zoo.


But yeah, they hit A due to ****ing Firewall Dragon and Cannon Soldier causing an FTK, **** sucks.

Zoodiac ancient times? Boy I was playing pure Ojamas then (and also trains but whatever).
Sucks for you, I hated Pendulum Magicians. I'm surprised they only waited a year before starting to hit Link monsters for bans.

 

[Zinith]

There's guaranteed to be at least one new reptile Pokemon, lucky you!

Not only that, but they somehow manage to get less subtle somehow...

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Pokemon's progression and level system don't really lend themselves to an open world.

The entirety of Pokemon's evolution, growth, moves and such are all designed on linear progression. Like, some Pokemon are objectively better than others. If the game is open world, what's stopping the player from stacking the deck, so to speak, and just throwing themselves at powerful Pokemon until they happen to catch it by chance, immediately after they start and then trivializing game balance in general.

BotW prevents this by having the same reward no matter what, or the reward never being too powerful to crush the progression of the player. Pokemon's problem is better solved by having more extra side paths, postgame and harder extra trainers then just going full open world. Give places to explore that only give rare Pokemon or items, or maybe just some tiny bits of lore or character development to find.

To me its like suggesting Metroid, Star Fox or F-Zero go open world. It shows a lack of understanding of the main elements of the series.

Thx for satisfying my curiosity. I thought the same about LoZ before BotW... turn out i was pleasantly surprised. I get that it must be hard to temper with the original mold of a serie as popular as Pokemon without losing the main elements, it's a risky move. I'll keep this 'open world' pokemon game idea for my dreams, where no restrictions apply

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Gen 1 was no pushover. And broadly speaking, kids in the 80s and 90s learned not to do stupid **** that made them die. Through trial and error you figured out strategies to beat the game.

Only reason it wasn't a pushover was cause it was borked.

Other than that it was fairly easy.

That's the thing folks.

Every Pokemon game ever has been easy.

 

[Shroob]

Zoodiac ancient times? Boy I was playing pure Ojamas then (and also trains but whatever).
Sucks for you, I hated Pendulum Magicians. I'm surprised they only waited a year before starting to hit Link monsters for bans.

They actually can't ban Firewall Dragon because the anime company 'owns' it, so they're banning everything around it to try to stem the bleeding.

 

[Deleted member]

An example of a true open world game would be Mario 64 and Minecraft. A ton of exploration.

Places where you do quests and explode a 3D world.

If I am wrong, please prove me as wrong as possible.

Also are those haters really hating on USUM?

USUM was a fun game.

 

[Will]

Only reason it wasn't a pushover cause it was borked.

Other than that it was fairly easy.

That's the thing folks.

Every Pokemon game ever has been easy.

oh geez do i get slack for dying a lot in mystery dungeon games then

They actually can't ban Firewall Dragon because the anime company 'owns' it, so they're banning everything around it to try to stem the bleeding.

isn't konami the ones making the anime

 

[Hydrualic Hydra]

They actually can't ban Firewall Dragon because the anime company 'owns' it, so they're banning everything around it to try to stem the bleeding.

*cries in D/D/D
At least we're finally getting High Flame Genghis.

 

[amazonevan19]

But that isn't even close to what Xenoblade is.

Aside from X, Xenoblade is VERY linear.

Did you read the rest of my post? The part before what you snipped? I discussed how BoTW did it and how I'd like that to be what Pokemon emulates.

I only used Xenoblade as an example of what I want the world to look like - aesthetically and in terms of size. Not in terms of the storyline progression which, as you note, is largely linear sans sidequests you can do.

Basically the perfect Pokemon game for switch would have a BoTW like progression scheme where I can tackle the gyms/challenges/whatever generational gimmick in any order I want, with a world the size of Xenoblade's.

 

[Noipoi]

Not only that, but they somehow manage to get less subtle somehow...

I honestly like Salazzle because Poison and Fire is an awesome typing.
But I certainly know why other people like Salazzle...

 

[Shroob]

oh geez do i get slack for dying a lot in mystery dungeon games then


isn't konami the ones making the anime

They publish the game, but Shonen Jump and whoever has the rights to the anime technically 'own' it last I remember. It's why Shock Master took two entire years to be banned, because Shonen Jump 'owned' the rights to the card.

 

[Will]

Speaking of Pokemon.

Remember this? Because I remember it.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I really don't see how people see Salazzle as sexy.

It is not human enough. Looks like a feminine lizard, but just that - a lizard