Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Will]

Legendary Hero Decks also contain a Destiny HERO deck. That and tons of Neos stuff makes it a good time to unban. How else can you easily search Malicious, etc.?

Use his bootleg brother Solid

 

[Deleted member]

Gen 6 is my least favorite Generation and Gen 1 is heavily overrated.

And I have the high ground.

Sun and Moon had a better plot than Black and White.

Debatable, because BW's makes me nostalgic.

 

[osby]

A gen 7 Pokemon that's actually in the game.

That actual kids play.

Is this really a big deal? I don't see a problem with it, maybe except bedroom eyes.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The issue with Firewall is just how many loops it causes because of its infinite recursion.

In Japan, they banned every single "Tribute a monster to burn" card except for Catapult Turtle due to it getting errata'd to be once per turn.

Let's be fair; Those cards really need the errata anyway. Firewall isn't the entire reason they have to go. If any loop is possible like that, those burn cards will be the only reason it even can remotely work. They were problematic for the game with or without Firewall.

Use his bootleg brother Solid

Nah, those cards are eh. The fact they couldn't just give us a Destiny Call like E-Emergency Call is kind of dumb. But that's what it is.

 

[Shroob]

Legendary Hero Decks also contain a Destiny HERO deck. That and tons of Neos stuff makes it a good time to unban. How else can you easily search Malicious, etc.?

I'll take, "Cards that'll be hit next list for 200", Alex.

 

[Noipoi]

I don't even care about cutscenes, I like story in my Pokemon games, I just want the hand holding to be taken down a notch.
If I say I know how to catch Pokemon then give me some Pokeballs and leave me be.

 

[Will]

I'll take, "Cards that'll be hit next list for 200", Alex.

Oh come on, if anyone's gonna get hit before Malicious it's Shadow Mist.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Man you guys must be totally starved at this point.

I hope there's an announcement tomorrow or Tuesday for all your sake otherwise I can't imagine how much more this community can go on.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Thinking back on it, Gen 6 didn't actually have a whole lot of good to it. It was fun at the time but I think I was just really liking the mega evolution thing that I didn't even realize it doesn't even have that many pokemon in it that I really like. And I never liked the villains.

At least Gen 7 has tons more pokemon I actually like in it. And Golisopod, Araquanid, Buzzwole, and Wishiwashi making it into some of my top favorite pokemon lists

 

[Shroob]

Oh come on, if anyone's gonna get hit before Malicious it's Shadow Mist.

Heroes already kinda suck. Malicious is thrown in whenever a deck can run Armageddon Knight/Grepher as free Link Fodder for Isolde.

 

[KMDP]

And here I am thinking that Pokemon just can't work as an open world game.

Check out Pokémon Crystal Clear by Shockslayer.

It's a Pokémon Crystal Rom Hack altered to be "Open World"; you can pick your starting town (out of Pallet or New Bark), all non-optional roadblocks have been removed (e.g. the bush blocking Diglett's Cave is gone; water routes have ways to circumvent them, such as the Ferry System or Bridges, the Magnet Train is open from the start, etc), Trainer levels scale with the number of badges you have up to a point (though Wild Pokémon don't, to my knowledge), you can tackle Gyms in any order (any order, you can also rematch gyms by "talking" to the gym statues). Unfortunately, all the Plot-based Sidequests were removed, but that was a requirement of the game's set-up (certain places, like the Bellsprout Tower, were turned into late game areas).

It might take some doing to find, because Shockslayer took down his site, but it was a very interesting experience.

 

[Will]

Heroes already kinda suck. Malicious is thrown in whenever a deck can run Armageddon Knight/Grepher as free Link Fodder for Isolde.

**** that's true, I don't know if he'd really get hit though. It isn't really a Level Eater-tier problem.

 

[Zinith]

Is this really a big deal? I don't see a problem with it, maybe except bedroom eyes.

Well take a look at that design and then take a look at the official Pokedex entry...

Yeah...

 

[Ring-a-Sheep]

Well take a look at that design and then take a look at the official Pokedex entry...

Yeah...

They knew exactly what they were doing when creating salazze and you can not tell me otherwise.

 

[osby]

Well take a look at that design and then take a look at the official Pokedex entry...

Yeah...

On the one hand, Pokedex entries being weird is nothing new. On the other hand...

Yeah...

 

[Jchrono95]

So I take it nothing much has happened considering Pokemon has been a large part of discussion for at least 2 pages now

 

[Idon]

So I take it nothing much has happened considering Pokemon has been a large part of discussion for at least 2 pages now

You can also take it that nothing much WILL happen for the next month until we get news.

Until then, enjoy your millionth fan-roster and digressive conversations, because there's not much else to discuss.

 

[KMDP]

They knew exactly what they were doing when creating salazze and you can not tell me otherwise.

They also knew what they were doing when they created Tsareena.

 

[92MilesPrower]

All I can say about this Pokémon discussion is this: at least nobody here is trashing the new Pokémon themselves and spouting nonsense such as “Gamefreak is running out of ideas for Pokémon.” There’s still so many ideas they potentially have for new Pokémon, and I can think of a good number of animals yet to be used as Pokémon that’d be cool to see: Gorilla (Oranguru is an Orangutan), Hammerhead Shark, Swordfish, Stegosaurus, Hummingbird, Dung Beetle, and Platypus.

 

[Idon]

They also knew what they were doing when they created Tsareena.

Literally "Step-on-me Queen"

 

[Jchrono95]

You can also take it that nothing much WILL happen for the next month until we get news.

Until then, enjoy your millionth fan-roster and digressive conversations, because there's not much else to discuss.

Yeah I know I just like checking in to see if I'm wrong on the lack of news front, cause that'd be nice

 

[Noipoi]

They also knew what they were doing when they created Tsareena.

And Primarina, and Tapu Lele, and Pheromosa...
Gen 7 was the Poke-waifu generation.

 

[Ring-a-Sheep]

They also knew what they were doing when they created Tsareena.

i hate that tsareena reminded me of thiccorita

 

[osby]

All I can say about this Pokémon discussion is this: at least nobody here is trashing the new Pokémon themselves and spouting nonsense such as “Gamefreak is running out of ideas for Pokémon.” There’s still so many ideas they potentially have for new Pokémon, and I can think of a good number of animals yet to be used as Pokémon that’d be cool to see: Gorilla (Oranguru is an Orangutan), Hammerhead Shark, Swordfish, Stegosaurus, Hummingbird, Dung Beetle, and Platypus.

All I can say is, I really liked the last gen. They all feel weird and colourful, like tropical plants and animals should be.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Man you guys must be totally starved at this point.

I hope there's an announcement tomorrow or Tuesday for all your sake otherwise I can't imagine how much more this community can go on.

I was starved before the Direct announcement, and that continued during the delay, and then the actual Direct (imho) was barely filling. The good news is we'll likely know within a month who everyone in the base is. 'Til then, making fun of fake leaks and pointless digressions will help scrape by.

EDIT: I'm a genwunner, so I have nothing to add to this particular discussion. And I can acknowledge the new mons do nothing for me personally given how I grew up with Pokemon, then stupidly declaring new mons are objectively bad. It's all subjective, and I grew up with Pokemon in the nineties.

 

[Eru13]

All I can say about this Pokémon discussion is this: at least nobody here is trashing the new Pokémon themselves and spouting nonsense such as “Gamefreak is running out of ideas for Pokémon.” There’s still so many ideas they potentially have for new Pokémon, and I can think of a good number of animals yet to be used as Pokémon that’d be cool to see: Gorilla (Oranguru is an Orangutan), Hammerhead Shark, Swordfish, Stegosaurus, Hummingbird, Dung Beetle, and Platypus.

Garchomp is a hammerhead shark and Psyduck is more of a platypus than a duck

But yeah, there are plenty of animals/plants/fungi/non-living things that could make a great pokemon

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

But like, did it really do anything differently than Platinum or Emerald or the like? Last I checked, people love those.

Oh boy. Now you've done it.

I can't necessarily speak for Emerald, but the you can't compare Platinum to Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon in terms of differences between games, because it's completely different.

Here's only some of the stuff Platinum did (Emerald did some of this as well):

• Sped up the slow-as-hell combat from Diamond and Pearl
• Increased Pokémon diversity across the region, allowing new team combinations and increased access to the new Sinnoh evolutions, some of which were surprisingly difficult to obtain in Diamond and Pearl
• Revamped the Pokémon and movesets of Gym Leaders, Plasma Admins, and the Elite 4 and Champion to make them more difficult
• Buffed AI overall throughout the game to increase difficulty
• Altered the order in which you take on Gym Leaders to streamline mid-game
  • This is a huge change. In DP you go from Eterna to Veilstone without a Gym Fight, then you go to Pastoria, and then back to Hearthome, where you've already been. In Platinum, you go from Eterna to Hearthome, then to Veilsone, and then to Pastoria, which makes a lot more sense
• Altered the story to include Giritina and the Distortion World and added some new battles, like Cyrus 3
• ADDED THE BATTLE FRONTIER, a post-game treasure trove of challenging content alongside the Battleground, which allowed you to rematch Gym Leaders, Partners, and the Rival (who actually has the highest leveled Pokémon if fought enough times, more so than Red)

Here's a full list of changes from Serebii if you want to look it over. Platinum (and Emerald) expanded upon the original two games and created a definitive experience.

What did Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon do?

• Added the Rainbow Rocket post-game arc, which takes all of an hour or two to finish
• Added some new Ultra Beasts and expanded the post-game quest to capture them
• Altered trials to make them more difficult and added Ultra Necrozma, the pinnacle of bull**** difficulty spikes fair game design
• Increased Pokémon variety somewhat across the region, but didn't really shake things up
• Slightly altered Pokémon and movesets of Kahunas, Rival, Elite 4, and Champion, but not nearly to the extent of Platinum and Emerald; overall difficulty is largely retained
• Altered the story and made it worse by removing Lillie and Lusamine's arc and replacing it with the Ultra Recon Squad, who just are just kind of there and don't do anything.
• Didn't fix any of the problems of the original game, such as the lengthy tutorials or hand-holding (which is actually upped just a little bit)
• Removed the Zygarde Cube sidequest and moved it to post-game

Here's a full list of changes from Bulbapedia. You'll see that the changes aren't nearly as much as Platinum, and don't alter too much of the original games.

I'm not mentioning new forms or moves as both Platinum and Ultra Sun/Moon did that (Distortion Giratina, Shamin-S, Rotom's Five Forms; Necrozma Dawn/Dusk/Light, Lycanroc Dusk).

The changes in Ultra Sun and Moon largely don't add anything on from the original Sun and Moon, especially because some content from the original games are removed. The story being altered is a tragedy because one of the strongest things Sun and Moon had going for it was it's story. Comparatively, the changes in Platinum and Emerald add on to their base games to create a new, better experience.

It's even less excusable because Game Freak already successfully pulled off a sequel game/alternate story with Black 2 and White 2, which were phenomenal re-imaginings of the Unova region, and hit most of the points that Platinum and Emerald did. Compared to it's peers, Ultra Sun and Moon are just lazy and disappointing.

 

[KMDP]

All I can say is, I really liked the last gen. They all feel weird and colourful, like tropical plants and animals should be.

Speaking of Pokémon being appropriate to their region: One thing that's kind of weird in hindsight...

Why are Emboar and Samurott based on Asian cultural references? (Zhu Baije and a Samurai, respectively) You'd think that the first (official/main-line) American region would get Western-based starters. *shrug*

Oh boy. Now you've done it.

I can't necessarily speak for Emerald, but the you can't compare Platinum to Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon in terms of differences between games, because it's completely different.

Here's only some of the stuff Platinum did (Emerald did some of this as well):

• Sped up the slow-as-hell combat from Diamond and Pearl
• Increased Pokémon diversity across the region, allowing new team combinations
• Revamped the Pokémon and movesets of Gym Leaders, Plasma Admins, and the Elite 4 and Champion to make them more difficult
• Buffed AI overall throughout the game to increase difficulty
• Altered the order in which you take on Gym Leaders to streamline mid-game
  • This is a huge change. In DP you go from Eterna to Veilstone without a Gym Fight, then you go to Pastoria, and then back to Hearthome, where you've already been. In Platinum, you go from Eterna to Hearthome, then to Veilsone, and then to Pastoria, which makes a lot more sense
• Altered the story to include Giritina and the Distortion World and added some new battles, like Cyrus 3
• ADDED THE BATTLE FRONTIER, a post-game treasure trove of challenging content alongside the Battleground, which allowed you to rematch Gym Leaders, Partners, and the Rival (who actually has the highest leveled Pokémon if fought enough times, more so than Red)

Here's a full list of changes from Serebii if you want to look it over. Platinum (and Emerald) expanded upon the original two games and created a definitive experience.

What did Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon do?

• Added the Rainbow Rocket post-game arc, which takes all of an hour or two to finish
• Didn't fix any of the problems of the original game, such as the lengthy tutorials or hand-holding (which is actually upped just a little bit)
• Increased Pokémon variety somewhat across the region, but didn't really shake things up
• Altered trials to make them more difficult
• Slightly altered Pokémon and movesets of Kahunas, Rival, Elite 4, and Champion, but not nearly to the extent of Platinum and Emerald; overall difficulty is largely retained
• Altered the story and made it worse by removing Lillie and Lusamine's arc and replacing it with the Ultra Recon Squad, who just are just kind of there and don't do anything.
• Added some new Ultra Beasts and expanded the post-game quest to capture them
• Removed the Zygarde Cube sidequest and moved it to post-game

Here's a full list of changes from Bulbapedia. You'll see that the changes aren't nearly as much as Platinum, and don't alter too much of the original games.

I'm not mentioning new forms or moves as both Platinum and Ultra Sun/Moon did that (Distortion Giratina, Shamin-S, Rotom's Five Forms; Necrozma Dawn/Dusk/Light, Lycanroc Dusk).

The changes in Ultra Sun and Moon largely don't add anything on from the original Sun and Moon, especially because some content from the original games are removed. The story being altered is a tragedy because one of the strongest things Sun and Moon had going for it was it's story. Comparatively, the changes in Platinum and Emerald add on to their base games to create a new, better experience.

It's even less excusable because Game Freak already successfully pulled off a sequel game/alternate story with Black 2 and White 2, which were phenomenal re-imaginings of the Unova region, and hit most of the points that Platinum and Emerald did. Compared to it's peers, Ultra Sun and Moon are just lazy and disappointing.

Hmm... *nod nod*

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Sun and Moon had a better plot than Black and White.

S/M has a charming cast of characters, but the story itself isn't much to write home about imo, it doesn't fully explore the themes that are actually interesting (at least in the original, didn't get US/UM), and the pacing isn't very good imo.

I really like B/W's story as it tackles an issue that's related to the very core concept of the series and makes it the absolute focus of the game, and while its characters aren't as colorful as S/M's they still complement the story extremely well. The only disappointment is that it all just turns out to be another elaborate scheme for world domination, would have liked if they just went all the way in making Ghetsis an extremist. Despite that I think it's the only mainline Pokémon game with a genuinely good story, granted it's still not up there with the Mystery Dungeon: Explorers games.

Also, if Roy Koopa goes over my head I'll apologize in advance .

 

[Androobie]

Honestly, this seems a bit like the Blaze Fenix situation. How many cards are on the banlist because of how they interact with Blaze Fenix? All while Blaze Fenix itself remains untouched, despite being the common thread linking them all. Same with Firewall Dragon. It enables much more bull**** than just a Cannon Soldier OTK, getting rid of Cannon Soldier is just going halfway because something else will just rise to replace it since it was never the true root of the problem in the first place. Firewall Dragon can always find something else to loop and abuse.

 

[Deleted member]

And Primarina, and Tapu Lele, and Pheromosa...
Gen 7 was the Poke-waifu generation.

~Poke-Waifus~

Pokemon will never be waifus. Just friends.

Also so much bashing on USUM. USUM was not perfect, but it is not lazy.
Yes, the long unskippable cutscenes can annoy, but be patient and enjoy it.

USUM is not the best, but not the worst.

 

[Noipoi]

You'd think that the first (official/main-line) American region would get Western-based starters. *shrug*

Well to be fair, one of the starters was a pig.

 

[Deleted member]

The thing is, I actually enjoyed SM more, not going to lie.

Probably because I was just used to the whole thing already when I got USUM.

I did not bother to finish all of the quests.

What I am doing in Pokemon right now is trying to get a shiny starter in Diamond and Heart Gold.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Also so much bashing on USUM. USUM was not perfect, but it is not lazy.
Yes, the long unskippable cutscenes can annoy, but be patient and enjoy it.

USUM is not the best, but not the worst.

Can you tell me how the games weren't lazy?

Please, I'm sincerely interested, especially because they had the least amount of changes between games. Like, I paid $40 to essentially replay Sun and Moon.

Also the unskippable cutscenes were a problem with Sun and Moon as well, so we can fault Ultra Sun and Moon for not fixing that problem.

 

[Deleted member]

Can you tell me how the games weren't lazy?

Please, I'm sincerely interested, especially because they had the least amount of changes. Like, I paid $40 to essentially replay Sun and Moon.

Also the unskippable cutscenes were a problem with Sun and Moon as well, so we can fault Ultra Sun and Moon for not fixing that problem.

Dude, to make that game was hard.

Sure it was not a new idea, but thinking of all of those Ultra Beasts, new worlds, tons of different stories and all of that.

Honestly the game was not lazy. Also sure a lot of cutscenes but those cutscenes took effort.

They can not just copy SM and add things. They probably had to start from scratch.

 

[Luigi The President]

Remember when this was the Smash discussion thread

 

[Noipoi]

Remember when this was the Smash discussion thread

Not really, no.

 

[Zinith]

Remember when this was the Smash discussion thread

It goes through "Pokemon" phases from time to time. Nothing big

 

[Deleted member]

Pokémon is fun to talk about. Also Gen 7 > Gen 6. TRUTH RIGHT HERE.

Remember when this was the Smash discussion thread

No, this is Patrick.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Can you tell me how the games weren't lazy?

Please, I'm sincerely interested, especially because they had the least amount of changes. Like, I paid $40 to essentially replay Sun and Moon.

Also the unskippable cutscenes were a problem with Sun and Moon as well, so we can fault Ultra Sun and Moon for not fixing that problem.

I can't speak to USUM as I haven't played it--personally, I try to never call a game lazy given how much development goes into even the most mediocre games. Cash-ins work for me, though. It's how I feel about LGPE. Remakes of $30 games, with removed features, the added features come from a free phone game, and is technically $110-170 if you want to catch 'em all. I'm amazed they're even getting away with that, but I'm not the "target audience" so I try not to complain too much and allow those who like it, enjoy it, even if I can't figure that out. But then looking back, particularly that South Park parody, that's kind of been Pokemon's primary criticism since the nineties--but back then I was a kid, and sold on them easily. It's just a shame, as a Genwunner, LGPE would seem perfect for me, on paper.

EDIT:

It goes through "Pokemon" phases from time to time. Nothing big

We need more Yoshi phases.