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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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amazonevan19

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Honestly, if moving forward we're gonna start barring characters that are one offs, then who's left to add? Everyone who has a major recurring role is already in Smash and has been for a long time. Half of the roster are all one offs or niche characters. By this logic, Geno, Rex and Pyra, Skull Kid, Bandana Dee, and many more should never get in. The argument that one-offs are fine for certain franchises only really doesn't make sense to me, and needlessly limits who you could ever add.
I take issue with the assessment that Bandana Dee is niche or one-off. He's been a pretty damn big deal in the Kirbyverse for a while now.

Other then that, though, I agree with this post. Characters like Roy were put in specifically to advertise forthcoming games and honestly his smash identity has overtaken what he was originally put in for. Sakurai can put in whoever the hell he wants for whatever reason he wants and I'm sure it'll turn out great.
 

P.Kat

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Which Smash character would you give a hug to?
Pichu, welcome back home pal
Side note: Ike is a protagonist in 2 FE games actually.
Side side note: sheik most likely got in primarily due to it being OoT Zelda's gimmick. Had it been ALttP Zelda or TP Zelda, Sheik probably never would've made it. Sheik and Roy are probably the luckiest in terms of timing.
Thank goodness for that otherwise we would have only one ninja characters in Smash.
 

DaybreakHorizon

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Honestly, if moving forward we're gonna start barring characters that are one offs, then who's left to add? Everyone who has a major recurring role is already in Smash and has been for a long time. Half of the roster are all one offs or niche characters. By this logic, Geno, Rex and Pyra, Skull Kid, Bandana Dee, and many more should never get in. The argument that one-offs are fine for certain franchises only really doesn't make sense to me, and needlessly limits who you could ever add.
It doesn't really limit anything.
  • Rex & Pyra represent the modern Xenoblade series, and it's success on the Switch system. Xenoblade is also one of Nintendo's up-and-coming series, so it'd make sense for them to push it.
  • Bandana Dee has been appearing in Kirby games for the last 7 years, most of which he's appearing in a prominent role
  • Geno just has raw fan demand
  • Skull Kid just...kinda doesn't. His cavalry more than likely showed up too late, and at this point he's not recent enough to include based on relevance. If fan demand keeps up he could be DLC though, but I doubt it.
Side note: Ike is a protagonist in 2 FE games actually.
Side side note: sheik most likely got in primarily due to it being OoT Zelda's gimmick. Had it been ALttP Zelda or TP Zelda, Sheik probably never would've made it. Sheik and Roy are probably the luckiest in terms of timing.
This is a great point, and explains this side of my argument well.
 
D

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Not necessarily. I already explained Pokémon and Fire Emblem in my original post, but here are the rest:
  • Mario is an iconic series and to be honest, all of the characters outside of maybe Rosalina warrant inclusion. Even then, Rosalina has made appearances in other Mario games besides Galaxy, such as 3D World.
  • DK is perfectly fine. Donkey Kong is iconic in general, Diddy represents DKC, and K. Rool has raw fan demand on his side.
  • Metroid is also perfectly fine. Samus is iconic in general, Zero Suit Samus could maybe be seen as a one off, but I think she got lucky more than anything. Ridley has raw fan demand, and Dark Samus was both easy to make and represents Prime.
  • The Smash Fire Emblem bunch are highly popular, and have been playable and/or referenced in many games outside of their original ones. The entire Outrealms in Fire Emblem Awakening, Outrealms Encounters specifically for the Smash Bunch in Fates, and the Illusions in Shadows of Valentia. Additionally, they're pretty popular in Fire Emblem Heroes as well, with all of them having many alts (though the same could be said about characters like Lyn, Celica, Hector, etc.).
It's not cherrypicking, it's different circumstances for different series. The fact is that Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf are the only important characters in the Legend of Zelda franchise, and anyone else is scraping the bottom of the barrel.
So what you're saying is that Zelda, one of Nintendo's biggest franchises only really surpassed by Mario and Pokemon, isn't iconic? I mean, to each their own, but I'm gonna have to disagree hard on that one. Skull Kid is the face of a game that is loved throughout both the franchise and gaming as a whole, people are still gushing over Midna to this day, and smaller characters like Tingle and the like have their followings as well.

If FE characters getting bit parts in other games means anything, then it should go the same way for Zelda. BotW references a whole bunch of characters and settings with its story and DLC, there are easter eggs for the other Zeldas all over it's own games and other Nintendo games, and most of these "bottom of the barrel" characters were playable in Hyrule Warriors. All of this fits the criteria you set up for FE, so why can't it work with Zelda? Why is FE special, especially when (and no offense to FE fans, I like it too) Zelda eclipses it 10 to 1?
 

DarthEnderX

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All this Zelda debate is really ridiculous.

The simple fact is, Impa and Tingle are the only other Zelda characters that keep making repeat appearances in the series. Skull Kid is cool and all, but he's a one-off villain. It's not some great travesty if he doesn't get added.
 
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TheCJBrine

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Rosalina's a franchise staple by now though.
Still feels like cherry-picking when she's based off her one major role, her other appearances being cameos, a secret character, and spinoffs.

I'm not against her, I just don't get it. While Skull Kid is only a major character in Majora's Mask, the same Skull Kid is in OoT, possibly TP, and definitely HW (even if the other characters there are just as important, like all the Mario spinoffs).
 
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DaybreakHorizon

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So what you're saying is that Zelda, one of Nintendo's biggest franchises only really surpassed by Mario and Pokemon, isn't iconic? I mean, to each their own, but I'm gonna have to disagree hard on that one. Skull Kid is the face of a game that is loved throughout both the franchise and gaming as a whole, people are still gushing over Midna to this day, and smaller characters like Tingle and the like have their followings as well.

If FE characters getting bit parts in other games means anything, then it should go the same way for Zelda. BotW references a whole bunch of characters and settings with its story and DLC, there are easter eggs for the other Zeldas all over it's own games and other Nintendo games, and most of these "bottom of the barrel" characters were playable in Hyrule Warriors. All of this fits the criteria you set up for FE, so why can't it work with Zelda? Why is FE special, especially when (and no offense to FE fans, I like it too) Zelda eclipses it 10 to 1?
Honestly, I kinda get why people seem to act like characters are the only/best way to represent things.

That doesn’t mean it’s true.

As @Frostwraith said, characters have to start at a base. This is a video game that has to function. Randomly throwing things from a game into a fighting moveset just really doesn’t speak to game design with Smash, or actively ignores it. The moves have to make sense, they have to be cohesive and serve a sort of purpose.

Characters themselves represent the games they come from. That’s kinda the point of adding characters from all these popular games. However, I still truly believe that the idea of “reps” is silly and out of context.

Characters, in my humble opinion, should represent themselves first. They should do things they’re known for, but that also flow into one cohesive moveset. This probably shouldn’t change too drastically between titles, as you want players who like the play style to not be all that deterred from playing that character. This is why I always play Mario, no matter the Smash i’m playing.

When you have options of stages, music, assist trophies, regular trophies, and items, I think it’s silly to put all the weight of representation of games themselves on characters when really, there’s so much more to those games than the characters.

Zelda is nothing without Hyrule, everyone knows that. Sure, the characters are the focus, but Zelda is also a game with several different art styles and settings. Smash should honor that rather than making moves themselves reflect games they come from.

Otherwise, we’re looking at a Link that can also use the Ocarina, a Toon Link with a Leaf Glide, or any character with Z targeting, which may sound good in theory, but may not translate well or balance well in Smash.

Just something to think about. Just because a character CAN do something or represent something doesn’t mean it would work well or make sense in the context of Super Smash Bros.
Thank you Scoliosis Jones Scoliosis Jones for such a great argument.

The Legend of Zelda's representation in Smash is different than that of other series. It gets a **** ton or representation through stages, items, assist trophies, regular trophies, etc. It certainly is one of Nintendo's greatest series, but all of it's iconic characters are already in the game. Hyrule Warriors is a spinoff made specifically for fans of the Legend of Zelda, and I could make the same argument for the FE bunch with Fire Emblem Warriors.
 
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Chrono.

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Still feels like cherry-picking when she's based off her one major role, her other appearances being cameos, a secret character, and spinoffs.

I'm not against her, I just don't get it.
Mario isn't a franchise that gets main entries all the time, so for Rosalina to make so many appearances, both playable and not, in spin offs should be more than enough.
 

amazonevan19

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So what you're saying is that Zelda, one of Nintendo's biggest franchises only really surpassed by Mario and Pokemon, isn't iconic? I mean, to each their own, but I'm gonna have to disagree hard on that one. Skull Kid is the face of a game that is loved throughout both the franchise and gaming as a whole, people are still gushing over Midna to this day, and smaller characters like Tingle and the like have their followings as well.

If FE characters getting bit parts in other games means anything, then it should go the same way for Zelda. BotW references a whole bunch of characters and settings with its story and DLC, there are easter eggs for the other Zeldas all over it's own games and other Nintendo games, and most of these "bottom of the barrel" characters were playable in Hyrule Warriors. All of this fits the criteria you set up for FE, so why can't it work with Zelda? Why is FE special, especially when (and no offense to FE fans, I like it too) Zelda eclipses it 10 to 1?
Not to speak for tehponycorn but that's not what he was saying at all.

He's saying that each character he's discussing is iconic for their series (and for many of them, gaming as a whole). Is skull kid that way for Zelda? Hell no. He's important in MM and was in OOT and kind of in TP and that's it. He's certainly one of the bigger characters in the franchise but compared to Zelda, Link, and Ganondorf? Get outta here. The simple fact is, Zelda doesn't have many characters that are important enough throughout the whole series to be deemed worthy enough of the title "iconic."
 

Scoliosis Jones

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No character besides the true mascot Nintendo characters need to be in Smash. That’s overused and definitely not properly applied to certain characters.

I like Rex and Pyra, and I think they should be one Smash because they’d be fun. Do they NEED to be in? Not necessarily.

Whatever happened to a character being fun as a great indicator?

Granted, fun can be seen in different ways by different people. But I think what they can do is more fun then this:

“This character is, in my entirely non-objective opinion, more important than a lot of other characters that people talk about. This character has the chance to represent x, y, and z about the series!”

Ok that’s great. But make me want to play the character. Otherwise, it’s a tough sell. These characters and what they do have to convince people, even the skeptics to want to play as them. That’s why characters have trailers to show off what they can do.

If a character mostly has the same motions for everything they do, it’s a tough sell. That’s why some things are highlighted and others aren’t.

Think about it. If you ask the average Smash fan what they like about it, they may just say the characters. But your average fan doesn’t argue about sales numbers, what console Snake started on, connections to Nintendo.

They talk mostly, if not entirely, about what they can do.
 
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D

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I dunno about y'all, but Metroid going from 2 to 4 reps now is actually kinda insane.

I now finally have a reason to play Samus, thanks to Dark Samus.
 

DaybreakHorizon

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Not to speak for tehponycorn but that's not what he was saying at all.

He's saying that each character he's discussing is iconic for their series (and for many of them, gaming as a whole). Is skull kid that way for Zelda? Hell no. He's important in MM and was in OOT and kind of in TP and that's it. He's certainly one of the bigger characters in the franchise but compared to Zelda, Link, and Ganondorf? Get outta here. The simple fact is, Zelda doesn't have many characters that are important enough throughout the whole series to be deemed worthy enough of the title "iconic."
giphy (1).gif


This is exactly what I'm saying.
 
D

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Not to speak for tehponycorn but that's not what he was saying at all.

He's saying that each character he's discussing is iconic for their series (and for many of them, gaming as a whole). Is skull kid that way for Zelda? Hell no. He's important in MM and was in OOT and kind of in TP and that's it. He's certainly one of the bigger characters in the franchise but compared to Zelda, Link, and Ganondorf? Get outta here. The simple fact is, Zelda doesn't have many characters that are important enough throughout the whole series to be deemed worthy enough of the title "iconic."
"Iconic" is a subjective term this fanbase seems to like to throw around a lot. If Smash only focused on iconic characters, them I sorry to say 70% of this roster has got to go. That means no Ridley, no K. Rool, no Wolf, no Ness, no to anyone who isn't a big Nintendo seller or a recurring character.

Look, I'm sorry if I'm coming off as offended or upset, I'm really not. However, this argument makes no sense to me. By the logic that you and tehponycorn are going by, you cut down any future new character options by a LOT. Everyone who is important to Nintendo is already in and has been since Melee. If a majorly popular, recurring throughout franchise merchandise and content characters like Midna and Skull Kid aren't important enough, what makes Bandana Dee more important? What makes the new FE Lord of the year character important? That's all I'm trying to say here.
 
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DarthEnderX

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Honestly, if moving forward we're gonna start barring characters that are one offs, then who's left to add?
More 3P characters that are actually more iconic and contributed more to Nintendo's success than half the Nintendo characters that are already in Smash.

So what you're saying is that Zelda, one of Nintendo's biggest franchises only really surpassed by Mario and Pokemon, isn't iconic?
Representation of a series likely has less to do with how iconic the series is, and more to do with how many iconic CHARACTERS the series has that can be added.

for example Metroid is a very iconic franchise, but there's barely two "characters" in the entire series.
 
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TheCJBrine

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Alright, I think I get it now.

Mario as a franchise is made up of mostly spinoffs nowadays, so characters can be taken from there.

Which makes sense; I don't see Sakurai caring whether or not he's taking from spinoffs or mainline games when it comes to characters.

I still think Zelda could get Tingle at the very least.
 

osby

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"Iconic" is a subjective term this fanbase seems to like to throw around a lot. If Smash only focused on iconic characters, them I sorry to say 70% of this roster has got to go. That means no Ridley, no K. Rool, no Wolf, no Ness, no to anyone who isn't a big Nintendo seller or a recurring character.

Look, I'm sorry if I'm coming off as offended or upset, I'm really not. However, this argument makes no sense to me. By the logic that you and tehponycorn are going by, you cut down any future new character options by a LOT. Everyone who is important to Nintendo is already in and has been since Melee. If a majorly popular, recurring throughout franchise merchandise and content characters like Midna and Skull Kid aren't important enough, what makes Bandana Dee more important? What makes the new FE Lord of the year character important? That's all I'm trying to say here.
If I understand it correctly, they are talking about the franchises or games themselves, not Nintendo as a whole.

Also, my two cents about the subject: I'm not absolutely against one-off side characters, but I think it's hard make a strong argument for them being essential for franchise 'repping', especially if we are talking about playable, unique fighters.
 

DaybreakHorizon

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"Iconic" is a subjective term this fanbase seems to like to throw around a lot. If Smash only focused on iconic characters, them I sorry to say 70% of this roster has got to go. That means no Ridley, no K. Rool, no Wolf, no Ness, no to anyone who isn't a big Nintendo seller or a recurring character.

Look, I'm sorry if I'm coming off as offended or upset, I'm really not. However, this argument makes no sense to me. By the logic that you and tehponycorn are going by, you cut down any future new character options by a LOT. Everyone who is important to Nintendo is already in and has been since Melee. If a majorly popular, recurring throughout franchise merchandise and content characters like Midna and Skull Kid aren't important enough, what makes Bandana Dee more important? What makes the new FE Lord of the year character important? That's all I'm trying to say here.
Do you even understand the argument?

I'm saying that Zelda has all of it's truly iconic characters in the game already. That's it. There are still iconic and popular characters for other series, just not Legend of Zelda. You're creating a slippery slope here by extending it to every franchise, which is fallacious.

And before you say Skull Kid is popular, may I remind you that his fan support didn't flare up until loz18 "leaked" him, which wasn't until August of this year. Before that his last major push was Pre-Brawl, and from there most fan demand for him died down until now. Even then his support has petered out due to loz18 being outed as a fraud.
If I understand it correctly, they are talking about the franchises or games themselves, not Nintendo as a whole.

Also, my two cents about the subject: I'm not absolutely against one-off side characters, but I think it's hard make a strong argument for them being essential for franchise 'repping', especially if we are talking about playable, unique fighters.

This is also what I'm saying.
 
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amazonevan19

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"Iconic" is a subjective term this fanbase seems to like to throw around a lot. If Smash only focused on iconic characters, them I sorry to say 70% of this roster has got to go. That means no Ridley, no K. Rool, no Wolf, no Ness, no to anyone who isn't a big Nintendo seller or a recurring character.

Look, I'm sorry if I'm coming off as offended or upset, I'm really not. However, this argument makes no sense to me. By the logic that you and tehponycorn are going by, you cut down any future new character options by a LOT. Everyone who is important to Nintendo is already in and has been since Melee. If a majorly popular, recurring throughout franchise merchandise and content characters like Midna and Skull Kid aren't important enough, what makes Bandana Dee more important? What makes the new FE Lord of the year character important? That's all I'm trying to say here.
It's all gucci; I get the passion for a character you really want. And again, not to speak for tehponycorn, but the reason I'm bringing up the term "iconic" is to drive home a particular point: saying that "x character should be in because of how important they are to a given franchise" is an argument that can only go so far and should only really be applied to particularly, truly important characters. And with regards to skull kid, my point is saying that he deserves to be in on that basis is incredibly lmao-worthy, as he really isn't as big a face for the franchise as his fans think he is. He's the face of Majora's Mask, sure. But Legend of Zelda broadly speaking? Again, get out of here.

Does that mean I want to cut 70% of the roster? Absolutely not. Characters like Roy, Ness, and Wolf give the roster a very nice flavor and additional characters to have fun with and explore. What it means is that fans of given characters at this point should realize how precarious it is to make arguments for inclusion based on relative importance to their franchises, when we already have almost all of the most important faces already in the game. Smash should be about the Nintendo all-stars first and foremost, and then anyone after that can be in based on fan demand and what Sakurai wants. We've already covered the bases on Zelda in terms of the truly "most important, most recurring" characters. That's my main point with skull kid: he's not a Zelda all-star, and any SK fan thinking along those lines as a reason for his inclusion are likely setting themselves up for disappointment.
 

DaybreakHorizon

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It's all gucci; I get the passion for a character you really want. And again, not to speak for tehponycorn, but the reason I'm bringing up the term "iconic" is to drive home a particular point: saying that "x character should be in because of how important they are to a given franchise" is an argument that can only go so far and should only really be applied to particularly, truly important characters. And with regards to skull kid, my point is saying that he deserves to be in on that basis is incredibly lmao-worthy, as he really isn't as big a face for the franchise as his fans think he is. He's the face of Majora's Mask, sure. But Legend of Zelda broadly speaking? Again, get out of here.

Does that mean I want to cut 70% of the roster? Absolutely not. Characters like Roy, Ness, and Wolf give the roster a very nice flavor and additional characters to have fun with and explore. What it means is that fans of given characters at this point should realize how precarious it is to make arguments for inclusion based on relative importance to their franchises, when we already have almost all of the most important faces already in the game. Smash should be about the Nintendo all-stars first and foremost, and then anyone after that can be in based on fan demand and what Sakurai wants. We've already covered the bases on Zelda in terms of the truly "most important, most recurring" characters. That's my main point with skull kid: he's not a Zelda all-star, and any SK fan thinking along those lines as a reason for his inclusion are likely setting themselves up for disappointment.
This as well. Next time please don't put words in our mouths, because that's not what we were arguing at all.
 

culumon

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Also gonna just say that being a one-off does not preclude a character from being iconic. Darth Maul appears in less Star Wars films than Ki-Adi-Mundi, but there's no question the former is substantially more iconic.
 

ZephyrZ

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From what I gather Celica literally made it into Warriors because she was one of the developer’s waifus. They didn’t even know about Echoes until much later, hence why her map is based entirely on Gaiden.
This this sounds absolutely like a BS rumor spread by salty fans who didn't like the final roster. Celica's design is still based of Echoes, even if her characterization and map were based off Gaiden, so I imagine what really happened is that communication between Echoes's and Warrior's development was limited, sort of how Sakurai didn't quite get Roy's personality right when developing Melee.
 

DaybreakHorizon

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This this sounds absolutely like a BS rumor spread by salty fans who didn't like the final roster. Celica's design is still based of Echoes, even if her characterization and map were based off Gaiden, so I imagine what really happened is that communication between Echoes's and Warrior's development was limited, sort of how Sakurai didn't quite get Roy's personality right when developing Melee.
There was no communication whatsoever between the Warriors and Echoes development teams until the very end. They intended on including Celica anyways as a cool nod to Gaiden, and then Nintendo approached the Warriors team and said "use the Echoes design," which they did.
 

ZephyrZ

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There was no communication whatsoever between the Warriors and Echoes development teams until the very end. They intended on including Celica anyways as a cool nod to Gaiden, and then Nintendo approached the Warriors team and said "use the Echoes design," which they did.
Hm, really? That seems like a kind of strange thing to do when they were so insistent on only representing Shadow Dragon / Awakening / Fates, but I'll believe you.

Anyway, the "she was one of the developer's waifus" is the part of that that really sounded suspicious to me. I've heard the same thing said about Sakurai with both Palutena and Bayonetta.
 

DaybreakHorizon

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Hm, really? That seems like a kind of strange thing to do when they were so insistent on only representing Shadow Dragon / Awakening / Fates, but I'll believe you.

Anyway, the "she was one of the developer's waifus" is the part of that that really sounded suspicious to me. I've heard the same thing said about Sakurai with both Palutena and Bayonetta.
Warriors had some weird development stuff go down.

Like, they intended for Navarre to be base game, but after seeing how popular Lyn was they just gave her his moveset and pushed him off for DLC. Pretty sure it was the same thing for Owain and Niles as well, except they just didn't get in the base game for some reason.

That game was an absolute mess. A fun mess, but a mess all the same.
 
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Akg0001

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Dixie Kong should be mentioned way more often here. Really important character with no role at the moment. Just think about how important she is!

She had so many appereances in dk games and is still relevant. Her past history and her present time are too big and too important!

Just my opinion but if chrom and dark samus are echo fighters, dixie kong HAS to get in at least as an echo fighter. Either base or dlc. She has to! No excuses!
 
D

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Do you even understand the argument?

I'm saying that Zelda has all of it's truly iconic characters in the game already. That's it. There are still iconic and popular characters for other series, just not Legend of Zelda. You're creating a slippery slope here by extending it to every franchise, which is fallacious.

And before you say Skull Kid is popular, may I remind you that his fan support didn't flare up until loz18 "leaked" him, which wasn't until August of this year. Before that his last major push was Pre-Brawl, and from there most fan demand for him died down until now. Even then his support has petered out due to loz18 being outed as a fraud.
Yes, it does. I'm not arguing that. What I'm trying to say is why should that stop Zelda from getting a new character when the same arguments you're using against it can easily be flipped onto literally any other franchise repped in this game or requested character?

Skull Kid being a recent thing in Smash speculation? Sure.

In the Zelda fandom? Yeah, characters like Midna, Skull Kid, Tingle, Impah, they've been popular for a while now.

...Y'know what? Let's just drop this. It's clear to me some like myself want more Zelda, some apparently do not. And that's fine. All this argument has literally turned into is a constant back and forth "Yuh huh!" and "Nuh uh!" and that is all that it's going to be because this whole thing is subjective anyways. I want more Zelda, others do not. That's fine and I am not offended, lol. Let's just move on to something else.
 

Flyboy

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It's a shame FE Warriors didn't have the variety of characters and history like Hyrule Warriors does. I wanted to play as people who weren't just Awakening and Fates and even having Camilla, Lyn, the usual suspects, and a few fun characters in it didn't entice me to pick it up. Hyrule Warriors had Marin of all people. Way cool.

Also the idea of a developer adding someone as a "waifu" doesn't...seem right. Same with the bias argument. Idk. Doesn't hold a lot of water with me.
 
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Lynn Eslie

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 11, 2018
Messages
107
Side note: Ike is a protagonist in 2 FE games actually.
Side side note: sheik most likely got in primarily due to it being OoT Zelda's gimmick. Had it been ALttP Zelda or TP Zelda, Sheik probably never would've made it. Sheik and Roy are probably the luckiest in terms of timing.
I disagree that Sheik would never have been included. Specifically in regards to Melee, it's quite possible that she was added primarily as "Zelda's gimmick," as you say. However, while Sheik can certainly be considered a one-off character, that has largely been strictly because of how popular Sheik is as a character. Sheik represents one of the most iconic moments in Nintendo/Gaming history, purely for the impact of the reveal. With the answer to her mystery being so prominent within the gamer lexicon, the persona of Sheik could no longer be utilized as an unknown story element. To further illustrate this, the legacy of Sheik can be seen in the persona of Tetra. (Also, for the record, the cut Toon Zelda character was planned to use a Smash-Unique Toon Sheik, rather than Tetra)

So, what can you do with an extremely popular character reliant upon mystique, when the mystery has been so wholly dispelled? Put them in games where the audience knowing who she is becomes largely irrelevant. Smash bros and Hyrule Warriors represent such opportunities, and both were readily taken.

If you think of Sheik merely as a one-off secondary guide character in Ocarina of Time, her continued inclusion may seem flimsy at best. However, if you think of her instead as a character representing one of the most iconic moments in gaming history, her position on the roster is quite firm.
 
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AugustusB

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 3, 2018
Messages
2,527
Location
Texas
Just to throw some numbers in this new argument.
Mario has 8 charcters, 19 stages
Zelda has 6 characters, 9 stages
Pokemon has 7 character, 7 stages
Fire Emblem has 7 characters, 3 stages

Still looking at the numbers for items and assist trophies.

Not trying to prove anything, just throwing things into the fire a bit.
 
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D

Deleted member

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Damn, RIP Vergeben. ZeRo out here telling us EVERYTHING before Ultimate comes out.

 
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