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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Cosmic77

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Because adding unique characters means commiting a lot more time and resources to them.
So... Again, I don't see what you're getting at. If Midna and Skull Kid are popular and iconic, why would them being a one-shot and a NPC be an issue? It doesn't make sense for Sakurai to feel more comfortable with a playable flavor-of-the-month FE protagonist than a non-playable but iconic Zelda character.

If there's a specific reason for Sakurai not adding a Zelda character, it has to be either poor timing or the inability to create a unique moveset. I doubt there's an equation he follows that states "one-shot + NPC = can't be playable in Smash".
 

JustCallMeJon

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The chance of having a reveal depends if the Big House 8 is sponsored by Nintendo. Evo is sponsored by Nintendo and because of that, it revealed Smash Direct.

If Nintendo did not sponsored THB8, then the chance is impossible. If Nintendo sponsored it, it is possible yet rather unlikely as so many majors were sponsored by Nintendo yet it didn't reveal anything.
 
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amazonevan19

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Yeah but this Zelda is cuter and has more personality so who gives a ****. Sorry, but really. That's a straight up buff in my eyes.
Unpopular opinion time...but I really prefer TP Zelda for Smash, and perhaps my biggest gripe with Link Between Worlds was the character design. Idk, something just doesn't look right having a more cartoony Zelda next to BoTW Link. TP Zelda next to OoTish Link looked a lot better, but that's JMO
 
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It's clear Sakurai is looking very closely into the Zelda area. Every character got major redesigns and Young Link is making a return. If there's anytime for a Skull Kid reveal, it's now.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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"Representation" in Smash is not only about characters. Zelda has a ton of items, stages, assists, etc. My guess is that whatever choosing process Sakurai and co. use also includes those to balance the game's content.
Given that, it's a bit funny how Tingle went from a stage obstacle to an AT, then back to a stage obstacle again.

Who's going to give the Link bad news?
Depends on which Link the bad news should be broken to. :4pacman:
 

osby

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Unpopular opinion time...but I really prefer TP Zelda for Smash, and perhaps my biggest gripe with Link Between Worlds was the character design. Idk, something just doesn't look right having a more cartoony Zelda next to BoTW Link. TP Zelda next to OoTish Link looked a lot better, but that's JMO
I really like new Zelda we got too, but I'd be lying if I say I won't miss the old Zeldas.
 

AugustusB

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So what is everyone's plans for when you get the game? Will you try to unlock characters as fast as possible?
Do you have friends in mind to play with once its released?

I plan to unlock as many characters as I can and then meet up with friends and play all weekend.

Also if Spirits is a multiplayer story mode, Definitely have a friend in mind to go through that.
 

Frostwraith

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Okay, so what do you gentlemen think is the reason for Sakurai not putting anyone new from Zelda yet? I'm honestly curious about some second opinions.
1. Sakurai giving priority to other characters from other franchises (i.e. Donkey Kong and Metroid, or other unrepresented franchises).
2. Most Zelda characters unfortunately having very few appearances outside of recurring characters like Link, Zelda, Ganon(dorf), Impa or Tingle, so they pretty much depend on either relevancy or fan demand. Yes, Sheik did get in the roster but she was mainly added as a transformation gimmick for Zelda and it just so happened that Ocarina of Time was still the biggest Zelda release at the time Melee was in development.
3. Sakurai might not simply be able to come up with movesets he feels like they work within Smash. Hyrule Warriors could provide with a lot of ideas but it's also a fundamentally different game than Smash is and also took a lot of liberties with many of the characters in it, and I think to a larger extent than Smash does, and what works for Hyrule Warriors doesn't necessarily work for Smash (and vice versa, obviously).
4. And speaking of fan demand, there isn't really a unified fan demand for who the next Zelda character is. At least, Metroid and Donkey Kong fans were set on having Ridley and K. Rool in the game, with Dark Samus and Dixie Kong support being much smaller in comparison. With Zelda, there are people supporting Impa, Tingle, Skull Kid, Midna, Ghirahim, Tetra, etc. to the point there is no big front runner on what is the most fan demanded Zelda character for Smash.

In case anyone brings up Fire Emblem:
1. The series hardly has any recurring characters outside of Anna, who isn't really a major character in any of her appearances. All of the characters in the game are protagonists of their own games, except maybe Lucina, but even so she's still a major character in Awakening with even a DLC storyline focusing on her not to mention her sheer popularity within the FE fandom.
2. A lot of the characters are derivative from one another. Just consider the fact that it has two echo fighters and one of them is an echo of a character who himself started as a clone and is still a semi-clone, so that's 4 characters with a variation on the exact same moveset. Even Ike and Corrin, who are more unique, still have a lot of similarities with Marth, Roy, Lucina and Chrom by having a lot of similar moves and overall design.

Creating a Smash character is much more than slapping moves and see if they work. That would be trying to build a pyramid from the top as opposed to from the base. Sakurai has stated multiple times that he works on characters from a general concept then works on the specifics. In other words, all the moves need synergy with each other and line up well with the main idea behind the character's design.
 
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TMNTSSB4

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People still think that making Smash characters is simply slapping moves and references onto a nice new model of the character when it's been said many times, even by Sakurai himself, that designing a character is a lot more work than that. Can't say I'm surprised, sadly.
If only it was easy...for Sakurai especially
 

Guybrush20X6

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Hey guys, I'm LaxChris and I run a channel on youtube. I found a pretty interesting leak on 4chan that I for some reason feel could actually happen, it would be mighty cool if you all took a look before my video finishes rendering
Heya.

Much as I'd love Roll in as an echo, I'm not sure about this one. Most leakers are people who heard from Nintendo employees, not the people theselves.
 

osby

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"Representation" in Smash is not only about characters. Zelda has a ton of items, stages, assists, etc. My guess is that whatever choosing process Sakurai and co. use also includes those to balance the game's content.
I feel like this is a really unappreciated part of Smash.
 

amazonevan19

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It's clear Sakurai is looking very closely into the Zelda area. Every character got major redesigns and Young Link is making a return. If there's anytime for a Skull Kid reveal, it's now.
Or Impa.

Or Toon Zelda.

Or Ganon.

Or one of the champions.

Hate to break it to you, but the only thing Skull Kid has going for him is the Moon assist trophy. Admittedly a pretty decently big thing going for him but still. Aside from that I don't really think SK would be on Sakurai's radar. You know who would have been on Sakurai's radar in 2015? The champions.

And don't tell me about chairs; those mean nothing. :p

I am not sure if we are going to get another Zelda rep but if we do, SK has serious competition with other characters and I frankly don't see him winning out.

Heya.

Much as I'd love Roll in as an echo, I'm not sure about this one. Most leakers are people who heard from Nintendo employees, not the people theselves.
And nearly every leak that claims to be from an Nintendo employee winds up fake.

Practically no one is going to risk their job and life over a leak like that.
 
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Or Impa.

Or Toon Zelda.

Or Ganon.

Or one of the champions.

Hate to break it to you, but the only thing Skull Kid has going for him is the Moon assist trophy. Admittedly a pretty decently big thing going for him but still. Aside from that I don't really think SK would be on Sakurai's radar. You know who would have been on Sakurai's radar in 2015? The champions.

And don't tell me about chairs; those mean nothing. :p

I am not sure if we are going to get another Zelda rep but if we do, SK has serious competition with other characters and I frankly don't see him winning out.
Skull Kid is the next most popular character in the Nintendo community. And like you said he has evidence to back him up which literally none of the other characters you mentioned have. Also isn't Ganon part of Ganondorf's final Smash.
 

Opossum

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As the resident Goron Moron, I say add Daruk. :p
 

Mc.Rad

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"Representation" in Smash is not only about characters. Zelda has a ton of items, stages, assists, etc. My guess is that whatever choosing process Sakurai and co. use also includes those to balance the game's content.
Besides I don’t have to bring up the... example do I?
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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Or Impa.

Or Toon Zelda.

Or Ganon.

Or one of the champions.

Hate to break it to you, but the only thing Skull Kid has going for him is the Moon assist trophy. Admittedly a pretty decently big thing going for him but still. Aside from that I don't really think SK would be on Sakurai's radar. You know who would have been on Sakurai's radar in 2015? The champions.

And don't tell me about chairs; those mean nothing. :p

I am not sure if we are going to get another Zelda rep but if we do, SK has serious competition with other characters and I frankly don't see him winning out.
Or, as usual, no one in there could win.


Which I wouldn't mind too much, since other series need the love pronto anyways.
 

Imadethistoseealeak

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Do we even know if Nintendo is involved with Big House at all?
The chance of having a reveal depends if the Big House 8 is sponsored by Nintendo. Evo is sponsored by Nintendo and because of that, it revealed Smash Direct.

If Nintendo did not sponsored THB8, then the chance is impossible. If Nintendo sponsored it, it is possible yet rather unlikely as so many majors were sponsored by Nintendo yet it didn't reveal anything.
I don't know about sponsoring but Nintendo is definitely involved as Ultimate will be playable and it's also advertised on the official Smash Bros. Website.

I'm looking into the sponsor thing now...
 

DevaAshera

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Unpopular opinion time...but I really prefer TP Zelda for Smash, and perhaps my biggest gripe with Link Between Worlds was the character design. Idk, something just doesn't look right having a more cartoony Zelda next to BoTW Link. TP Zelda next to OoTish Link looked a lot better, but that's JMO
Good news then, Zelda's design is from A Link to the Past with elements of Link Between Worlds. The English announcement got it wrong (Sakurai said Triforce of the Gods, not Triforce of the Gods 2).

I really don't think this Zelda looks 'cartoony', at least not any more then BotW Link does.
 

JoyStar

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Maybe it was them being NPCs with one appearence, at least for characters like Midna or Skull Kid. Tingle... well, that should be obvious.

To be fair, Skull Kid appeared in OOT, was the main antagonist in MM, and there was a Skull Kid in TP though probably a descendant of the original.
 

osby

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Let's be honest.... people care more about representation through characters than anything else especially for the bigger series.
I mean, their loss. I don't envy people counting squares in the CSS to judge the game.

EDIT: Okay, this is a bit harsh, but again, some people should appreciate the content other than fighters more.
 
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Union of Darkness

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Hey guys, I'm LaxChris and I run a channel on youtube. I found a pretty interesting leak on 4chan that I for some reason feel could actually happen, it would be mighty cool if you all took a look before my video finishes rendering
I do not approve of your clickbait videos about text posts from 4chan. Consider changing your up your content.
 

Ramen Tengoku

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since other series need the love pronto anyways.
Like a certian someone, someone, If you catch my drift...
To be fair, Skull Kid appeared in OOT, was the main antagonist in MM, and there was a Skull Kid in TP though probably a descendant of the original.
The thing with Skull Kid is that what makes him famous is Majora, which was only in one game. Therefore, he's technically a one-off character...
 

amazonevan19

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Skull Kid is the next most popular character in the Nintendo community.
[citation needed]

And even assuming that's true, it's not like SK is *the* consensus pick of Zelda fans a la K Rool and Ridley for their respective fanbases. The support is strewn across a whole host of Zelda characters.

And like you said he has evidence to back him up which literally none of the other characters you mentioned have. Also isn't Ganon part of Ganondorf's final Smash.
His AT isn't around just like Shadow's isn't around. Both could wind up bosses or just cut entirely as opposed to being fighters. (Say it ain't so!!!) So he may have evidence but it's not surefire at all.

And sure, a pig Ganon form is part of Ganondorf's final smash but classic Ganon could still be given his own slot. It's up to Sakurai if he wants him in or not.

Overall I feel SK fans overestimate his chances based on tenuous interpretations of what Sakurai is going for with this game. Now watch him make base roster :p IF he makes it, I think it's by way of DLC at this point; maybe as a Zelda DLC pack with SK/Impa/ or SK/a champion, or all of those together if Sakurai really wants to be accused of series bias :p
 

Cosmic77

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Let's be honest.... people care more about representation through characters than anything else especially for the bigger series.
Well, characters are the biggest way to promote a series. I haven't seen anyone claim FE has been treated poorly for having only three stages and a fewer number of ATs and items than KI, AC, and (surprisingly) EarthBound.
 

Nekoo

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RE Sora having the "best" odds of getting in the game rn: Disney, by giving approval of Sora, has to essentially write off on every single thing in the game (Bayonetta, violence, characters with guns, waft, and pretty much any other thing that can be deemed offensive). So that's what I think is what will make Sora getting in almost impossible
Would have been truth if Disney was the one to decide his representation and not Nomura.
Too bad it's not the case and Disney only have the Legal paper work but Nomura decide what is okay or not for Sora. :bobomb:

Also lol'd at true gun representation. Carrabian's world say hi-
 

amazonevan19

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I think a big part of the hyper focus on characters is not only that they're obviously the most visible way to represent a series, but the simple fact that a large swath of the fanbase only plays competitively or with no items on. These people tend to be the most prominent and vocal on websites like smashboards and thus form a "smash bubble" within the broader community. And since they almost never see items while playing or play through the other game modes casually very often, they really only get exposure to who's in the roster.

Long as I'm talking items, I think Alex Kidd would be fantastic AT representation for Sega. I don't feel he deserves to be a fighter (though I wouldn't mind him being in a Sega DLC pack or something with Shadow and Tails), but he'd be a perfect candidate for an AT to represent the pre-Sonic days of Sega/video game history.
 

Frostwraith

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If we look at Zelda representation outside of characters, you have:
1. The series with the biggest amount of stages, next to Mario. In Ultimate, it's the only franchise to have all of its Smash stages return while getting a brand new stage.
2. Each stage is from a different game and is unique to itself, each with a different scenario and mechanics. Mario that has a lot of stages based on similar concepts, like the many SMB-style Mushroom Kingdom stages with ? blocks and the like and two Peach's Castle stages, Donkey Kong has a lot of jungle stages, Pokémon has 2 stadiums and Kalos League is essentially Pokémon Stadium 3 mechanically, Kid Icarus has Skyworld and Palutena's Temple is basically Skyworld XL, Metroid has a lot of stages with rising lava, Fire Emblem has two stages set in some kind of gladiator arena (Coliseum and Arena Ferox), and so on. Zelda has quantity and quality as far as stage representation goes with stages based on memorable places from Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, etc. that all capture the essence of those games as well with various cameos and mechanics inspired by those games and settings.
3. Various items from the series faithfully recreated in Smash, including the unique Fairy Bottle recovery item, the Bombchu that crawls alongside terrain just like in OoT, the Cucco that brings one of the series' most memorable recurring jokes, the unique items from Skyward Sword like the Beetle and Gust Bellows that function like they did in that game.
4. The music, including diverse and memorable tunes, including fan-favorites like Gerudo Valley and Molgera Battle.

As a Zelda fan, the lack of new characters is more than made up by the quantity and quality of the other content the Zelda series has in Smash that faithfully capture the series' essence and the various game mechanics and items get recreated well in Smash, with the stages offering a diverse collection of settings from the series' iconic Hyrule as seen in Hyrule Castle and Bridge of Eldin, but also the Great Sea, Termina, the Gerudo desert, going on a train ride in the world of Spirit Tracks and the vast open world version of Hyrule from Breath of the Wild.

It shows well that each Zelda game stands out from the rest and the items allow more of the series' many items to be represented outside of the Links' movesets.

I genuinely think that no other franchise gets this great balance of quantity and quality in its Smash representation, Ganondorf's moveset notwithstanding.
 

Robertman2

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RE Sora having the "best" odds of getting in the game rn: Disney, by giving approval of Sora, has to essentially write off on every single thing in the game (Bayonetta, violence, characters with guns, waft, and pretty much any other thing that can be deemed offensive). So that's what I think is what will make Sora getting in almost impossible
Disney is a lot more flexible with that stuff than you'd think. They'd be fine with just about everything in Smash, especially since it has an E10 rating
 

ErenJager

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Hey guys, I'm LaxChris and I run a channel on youtube. I found a pretty interesting leak on 4chan that I for some reason feel could actually happen, it would be mighty cool if you all took a look before my video finishes rendering
It's fake.

If this is actually Laxchris, could you possibly reconsider how you make videos. Clickbait titles and thumbnails arent useful and I often find myself displeased when I click your videos only to find out i've been mislead.
 

domriver

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May be a chance they announce something (a direct date) then. Are they having an exhibition type thing there?
I wish i could say with 100% yes but i can't. However the playlist update, the "new" symbol taken off the website and we have a big event for smash brothers from friday thru sunday. I give it 75% chance of announcing a direct. For the upcoming week. 25% im WRONG. :( :p
 

Imadethistoseealeak

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May be a chance they announce something (a direct date) then. Are they having an exhibition type thing there?
If you mean of Ultimate then no I think it's just demos.

However the annoucnement at EVO happened during a Melee tournament so I don't think it's relevant.
 

Ramen Tengoku

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Hey guys, I'm LaxChris and I run a channel on youtube. I found a pretty interesting leak on 4chan that I for some reason feel could actually happen, it would be mighty cool if you all took a look before my video finishes rendering
Even the legitimate Lax Chris wouldn't stoop so low...
"I found you, faker"
 

Nekoo

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If you mean of Ultimate then no I think it's just demos.

However the annoucnement at EVO happened during a Melee tournament so I don't think it's relevant.
It was relevant back at EVO because anyone being a fighting game fannknows that the moment a company make a demo for upcoming game/exhibition it means Announcement. Always been the case.

However I don't think the Big House have anything to do with this
 

AugustusB

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Now that is a thought. Lets say that the next smash game (whenever that is) focuses on characters.

100 plus characters are in the game, but there are no items/fewer items, no trophies, LESS MUSIC and only 5 stages.

This game is not just about characters. If he focused on just characters, the game would be garbage IMO.

That being said, I will still be optimistic about certain characters that I think have a good chance to make base roster.

And if they don't, you can bet there will be A LOT of people coming in with their support to get their character in for DLC.
 
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