Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[TMNTSSB4]

We will still play Smashville everyday

Oh not Smashville

 

[Untouch]

Smashville may be a FD clone with hazards off, based on the thumbnail on the site.

 

[ErenJager]

I saw Katalina discussion a hefty amount of pages back and there was something I didnt see people mentioning that I thought might be good to know.

As we know Nintendo hold 5% of the shares in Cygames (Granblue's creator - Katalina's game).

Further, the company DeNA owns 24% of the shares in Cygames.

Interestingly enough Nintendo also owns 10% of the shares in DeNA.

For those that don't know DeNA is Nintendo's mobile guy. (miitomo, mario run, fe heroes, pocket camp, mario kart tour).

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Smashville may be a FD clone with hazards off, based on the thumbnail on the site.

That would make the stage even more boring to see competitively

 

[AugustusB]

We will still play Smashville everyday

Smashville is not in. The stages are Final Destination, Battlefield, Big Battlefield, Omega Battlefield and Omega Big Battlefield...

 

[Potato_]

Or, as usual, no one in there could win.

Which I wouldn't mind too much, since other series need the love pronto anyways.

What series are left really? Metroid finally got the love it deserves, I guess DK could argue for Dixie, but everything else is either small or is getting their content in DLC like 99% (Xenoblade I'm looking at you). Bandanna Dee I could see an argument for.

Mother? The franchise is basically dead at this point. Same with F-Zero. And I ****ing love F-Zero, I just don't see them adding a new rep when we haven't had a new game in so long.

If we look at Zelda representation outside of characters, you have:
1. The series with the biggest amount of stages, next to Mario. In Ultimate, it's the only franchise to have all of its Smash stages return while getting a brand new stage.
2. Each stage is from a different game and is unique to itself, each with a different scenario and mechanics. Mario that has a lot of stages based on similar concepts, like the many SMB-style Mushroom Kingdom stages with ? blocks and the like and two Peach's Castle stages, Donkey Kong has a lot of jungle stages, Pokémon has 2 stadiums and Kalos League is essentially Pokémon Stadium 3 mechanically, Kid Icarus has Skyworld and Palutena's Temple is basically Skyworld XL, Metroid has a lot of stages with rising lava, Fire Emblem has two stages set in some kind of gladiator arena (Coliseum and Arena Ferox), and so on. Zelda has quantity and quality as far as stage representation goes with stages based on memorable places from Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, etc. that all capture the essence of those games as well with various cameos and mechanics inspired by those games and settings.
3. Various items from the series faithfully recreated in Smash, including the unique Fairy Bottle recovery item, the Bombchu that crawls alongside terrain just like in OoT, the Cucco that brings one of the series' most memorable recurring jokes, the unique items from Skyward Sword like the Beetle and Gust Bellows that function like they did in that game.
4. The music, including diverse and memorable tunes, including fan-favorites like Gerudo Valley and Molgera Battle.

As a Zelda fan, the lack of new characters is more than made up by the quantity and quality of the other content the Zelda series has in Smash that faithfully capture the series' essence and the various game mechanics and items get recreated well in Smash, with the stages offering a diverse collection of settings from the series' iconic Hyrule as seen in Hyrule Castle and Bridge of Eldin, but also the Great Sea, Termina, the Gerudo desert, going on a train ride in the world of Spirit Tracks and the vast open world version of Hyrule from Breath of the Wild.

It shows well that each Zelda game stands out from the rest and the items allow more of the series' many items to be represented outside of the Links' movesets.

I genuinely think that no other franchise gets this great balance of quantity and quality in its Smash representation, Ganondorf's moveset notwithstanding.

I mean I'd argue Mario gets even better treatment but that's understandable.

Character wise Zelda suffers, but music wise it's in a really good state. Same with items and stages, ESPECIALLY with stuff like Great Bay coming back.

But i'd be lying if I said I wouldn't give that away to get a more unique Toon Link, Young Link with his masks, and one or more of Skull Kid, Tetra or Toon Ganondorf/Ganon.

 

[amazonevan19]

Smashville is not in. The stages are Final Destination, Battlefield, Big Battlefield, Omega Battlefield and Omega Big Battlefield...

6

you forgot omega final destination

 

[Idon]

Now that is a thought. Lets say that the next smash game (whenever that is) focuses on characters.

100 plus characters are in the game, but there are no items/fewer items, no trophies, LESS MUSIC and only 5 stages.

This game is not just about characters. If he focused on just characters, the game would be garbage IMO.

That being said, I will still be optimistic about certain characters that I think have a good chance to make base roster.

And if they don't, you can bet there will be A LOT of people coming in with their support to get their character in for DLC.

I'd absolutely take that offer.

Don't know about anyone else, but more than anything else, it's the characters that I care about more than anything else. Stages, music, and items serve an important role in crossover fighters, but only in the way they provide context and support for the fighters.

Now, of course, the resource distribution on having less everything for more fighters is ridiculous and implies that character modelers, playtesters, stage modelors, effects artists, composer, etc etc can drop what they're doing and somehow funnel those skills into making characters.

 

[osby]

Oh not Smashville

Now that we have over 100 stages, we can ban all but Lylat Cruise and Smashville.

 

[AugustusB]

Now, of course, the resource distribution on having less everything for more fighters is ridiculous and implies that character modelers, playtesters, stage modelors, effects artists, composer, etc etc can drop what they're doing and somehow funnel thosr skills into making characters.

Now I WANT to see that scenario play out!
"Sorry Yoko Shimomura, but we wont be needing you to make music for Smash this time....Do you know how to model characters?"

 

[Sharkarat]

Maybe slighlty controversial, but I personally think fully transforming Young link would be a waste of resources, would rather have a combination of Vaati/Impa/Tingle/Midna/Skull Kid/Ghirahim.
Just think him and his transformation aren't important enough to deserve 3/4 characters worth of development.

If we look at Zelda representation outside of characters, you have:
1. The series with the biggest amount of stages, next to Mario. In Ultimate, it's the only franchise to have all of its Smash stages return while getting a brand new stage.
2. Each stage is from a different game and is unique to itself, each with a different scenario and mechanics. Mario that has a lot of stages based on similar concepts, like the many SMB-style Mushroom Kingdom stages with ? blocks and the like and two Peach's Castle stages, Donkey Kong has a lot of jungle stages, Pokémon has 2 stadiums and Kalos League is essentially Pokémon Stadium 3 mechanically, Kid Icarus has Skyworld and Palutena's Temple is basically Skyworld XL, Metroid has a lot of stages with rising lava, Fire Emblem has two stages set in some kind of gladiator arena (Coliseum and Arena Ferox), and so on. Zelda has quantity and quality as far as stage representation goes with stages based on memorable places from Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, etc. that all capture the essence of those games as well with various cameos and mechanics inspired by those games and settings.
3. Various items from the series faithfully recreated in Smash, including the unique Fairy Bottle recovery item, the Bombchu that crawls alongside terrain just like in OoT, the Cucco that brings one of the series' most memorable recurring jokes, the unique items from Skyward Sword like the Beetle and Gust Bellows that function like they did in that game.
4. The music, including diverse and memorable tunes, including fan-favorites like Gerudo Valley and Molgera Battle.

As a Zelda fan, the lack of new characters is more than made up by the quantity and quality of the other content the Zelda series has in Smash that faithfully capture the series' essence and the various game mechanics and items get recreated well in Smash, with the stages offering a diverse collection of settings from the series' iconic Hyrule as seen in Hyrule Castle and Bridge of Eldin, but also the Great Sea, Termina, the Gerudo desert, going on a train ride in the world of Spirit Tracks and the vast open world version of Hyrule from Breath of the Wild.

It shows well that each Zelda game stands out from the rest and the items allow more of the series' many items to be represented outside of the Links' movesets.

I genuinely think that no other franchise gets this great balance of quantity and quality in its Smash representation, Ganondorf's moveset notwithstanding.

And literally all Zelda games except Minish Cap has at least some form of representation.
But, yeah Legend of Zelda is represented extremely well outside of some choices around the characters. Cause in addition to Falcondorf, there's stuff like Sheik not even having harp in taunt or victory pose when it's literally the only thing she does in OoT.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

I havn’t even Beaten the 2nd World on Crash 1 N Sane Trilogy And I already want crash in smash...

 

[Pazzo.]

Smash Bros. is still a Nintendo consoles crossover guys.

You ain't getting Kratos.

 

[Potato_]

I personally think fully transforming Young link would be a waste of resources, would rather have a combination of Vaati/Impa/Tingle/Midna/Skull Kid/Ghirahim.
Just think he and his transformation aren't important enough to deserve 3/4 characters worth of development.

Personally I don't think they even need to do that. Just incorporate the masks into his specials in some way. Up-B could be Deku Link launching from a Deku flower. Side B could be Goron Link rolling down. Down B could be Zora Link's fin boomerangs. Neutral B can stay the same and Final Smash is Fierce Deity.

I just want to see that side of Link get represented in some way, considering the transformations were such a cool concept.

 

[CroonerMike]

Smash Bros. is still a Nintendo consoles crossover guys.

You ain't getting Kratos.

Don’t express that opinion on this specific thread. More than half the users will attack the hell out of you for not wanting more 3rd parties and they will cry “NINTENDO DONT HAVE MORE 1ST PARTY KARACTERS GIVE ME SPRYO THE FLAMMING DRAGGON PLS”

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Smash Bros. is still a Nintendo consoles crossover guys.

You ain't getting Kratos.

Just a reminder that Sakurai said that Smash Bros. has evolved beyond a Nintendo crossover to become the biggest crossover in gaming history, and he also doesn't care about the console wars.

Is Kratos likely? Not at all.
But is it possible? Yeah, it actually is.

 

[Chrono.]

LaxChris was here?

 

[Sharkarat]

Personally I don't think they even need to do that. Just incorporate the masks into his specials in some way. Up-B could be Deku Link launching from a Deku flower. Side B could be Goron Link rolling down. Down B could be Zora Link's fin boomerangs. Neutral B can stay the same and Final Smash is Fierce Deity.

I just want to see that side of Link get represented in some way, considering the transformations were such a cool concept.

I have no problem with that. just not a fan of what resource hog full character transformations would be.

 

[Robertman2]

Smash Bros. is still a Nintendo consoles crossover guys.

You ain't getting Kratos.

Spoiler

embeddingvideos is annoying

 

[amazonevan19]

LaxChris was here?

Someone claiming to be him, yes.

 

[Moon Monkey]

At first I thought we would get our final Smash Direct in November, but now I do think we will possibly see our final Smash Ultimate Direct mid October.

At this moment in time, Smash Ult. should be quickly approaching gold status. I assume most of us know what "going gold" means, but if you don't it's pretty much the finalization of a game, and the beginning of production of game copies for sale. Games usually go gold about a month before release date.

With copies going out into the wild, Sakurai and his team risk content being leak (Notable instance being the ESRB ****show) So to get ahead info being leaked, mid maybe late October seems like a perfect time to show off the rest of the base roster anything else worth leaking.

I hear people throwing out ideas of the Direct as early as next week; me personally I think the week of the 18th or 25th in October are sound dates too. But I do feel as if October will be the month.

 

[Deleted member]

Smash Bros. is still a Nintendo consoles crossover guys.

You ain't getting Kratos.

Something something Cloud and Snake something something Nintendo appearances don't matter.

Cloud is not evidence that anything under the sun can get in Smash, nor should it IMO. I know some people feel very strongly about this, but to me, this series started and still is heavily geared towards Nintendo history. If the character has ties to Nintendo, I'm fine with them making an appearance, but if we literally start accepting anyone and anything, this game loses its identity to me and becomes nothing more than a jumbled up mess like MUGEN. To each their own, though.

 

[ErenJager]

Smash Bros. is still a Nintendo consoles crossover guys.

You ain't getting Kratos.

If we were to get a character that shattered our expectations like Cloud did in Smash 4.

There are only so many roads to go down.

1) A console rival. (Sony & Microsoft)
2) A western owned IP (Crash, Rayman, microsoft again)
3) PC/ Steam character.
4) Software getting a pass as games - Hatsune Miku
5) Anime character (Bamco's Goku, luffy or naruto - Square Enix's Maka Albarn or Edward Elric - Konami's Yugi Moto or Setto Kaiba)

To say the least a Sony or microsoft character would probably be the most well received.

But thats only if Sakurai wants to continue to break new ground.

 

[Idon]

Smash Bros. is still a Nintendo consoles crossover guys.

You ain't getting Kratos.

Tbh, I'd be pretty pissed if they were throwing out the Nintendo brand and including iconic and influential characters and getting both Bayonetta and Kratos...

WITHOUT DANTE FROM THE DEVIL MAY CRY SERIES.
I mean come on, he directly inspired those 2 games and is not only the pioneer of the genre, but also the most iconic and successful one.

 

[Onua]

How likely do you all think Ken is? Do you think he'll be a semiclone like Isabelle or an echo?
Also do you guys think the leak is real or not(that pic of him)

 

[Pakky]

:Beep

:Well I mean there are some new guys that are cultured.

:Woomy!

:See she knows who you are.

Woomy... (Flashes back to history class and remembers something terrible about a great black octopus) WOOMY!

:Beep..Beep...

:Well if you tell everyone that what they learned about you is true, of course they'll run.

:Beep

:Well yeah I guess if her friend arrives she won't have the same reaction.

 

[papagenos]

Hey guys, I'm LaxChris and I run a channel on youtube. I found a pretty interesting leak on 4chan that I for some reason feel could actually happen, it would be mighty cool if you all took a look before my video finishes rendering

Spoiler: Smash Ultimate Leak

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/434035052

Hey LaxChris, if this is actually you, I did a shout out to you in one of my videos a while back (i forget what it was, something you covered i saw on your channel a while ago).

I don't think this 4chan "leak" is anything and I'd strongly suggest you start filtering what you cover more thoroughly, I hear from a lot of people who are starting to "turn against" your channel and I think you can avoid that happening if you just change a few things up. I sympathize cause I also cover smash leaks and speculation stuff and I know it can be hard to choose what people will want to hear about and what is SO clearly "fake" it isn't worth covering, while at the same time not wanting to "miss" anything in case its true.

If you want to cover random leaks i think thats fine, some people want to hear that, just be EXTRA clear thats all it is, perhaps make a label and put it on every thumbnail for videos about random internet leaks? something like the opposite of the nintendo seal of approval or something might be funny and work wonders for getting people to accept the content of the video for what it is.

Chilling around here is also a really good way to see what is being talked about in the smash speculation world and you'll get a bunch of people who will look at leaks and discuss the ins and outs of how true they are, its the best place on the internet for smash speculation easily so i'd suggest sticking around.

I hope I'm not coming off pompous here, I just also have a channel that exploded seemingly over night and then saw your channel do the same for similar content and I know the sudden difficulty of navigating covering this stuff and what yields a positive and negative reaction from people and have seen people growing negative towards your channel recently. Anyway, best of luck!

 

[Idon]

How likely do you all think Ken is? Do you think he'll be a semiclone like Isabelle or an echo?
Also do you guys think the leak is real or not(that pic of him)

1. Very likely
2. An echo
3. I think it's real.
Let's move on to something else now

 

[Rie Sonomura]

How likely do you all think Ken is? Do you think he'll be a semiclone like Isabelle or an echo?
Also do you guys think the leak is real or not(that pic of him)

I think the leak is real cause the original leaker hasn't said anything since and may have in fact been smoked out by the Nintenjas(TM). And slight unpopular opinion, I actually think he'll be a semi-clone like Isabelle, Lucas or Wolf. Verge didn't know about ANY of the echoes because they're basically added on the fly. Isabelle and probably Ken took more time to develop and test and his sources supposedly have access to the test builds, so Ken being a semi makes more sense.

 

[osby]

4) Software getting a pass as games - Hatsune Miku

We already have Miis. Heck, we even have a hardware getting a pass as a game character (R.O.B.)

 

[Deleted member]

Tbh, I'd be pretty pissed if they were throwing out the Nintendo brand and including iconic and influential characters and getting both Bayonetta and Kratos...

WITHOUT DANTE FROM THE DEVIL MAY CRY SERIES.
I mean come on, he directly inspired those 2 games and is not only the pioneer of the genre, but also the most iconic and successful one.

How many of those games were on Nintendo consoles? What does he have to do with Nintendo? Why him over anyone else, especially a character that is iconic to the company making the game and is the cornerstone theming of the game?

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I think Ken is hella likely, but I don't really have a basis in reality for it. Like all speculah, it's just a hunch.

As for that picture of him in circulation rn? Not gonna lie, it looks pretty damn good and I'd be pretty happy if that were his final model in-game.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Turtlar]

So in regards to the perceived lack of Zelda newcomers vs content, I think that the issue is less that Zelda is poorly represented, as pointed out by many of you, it has 6 characters, numerous stages, and plenty of items. I think the point that some are trying to make is that we haven't had a truly unique Zelda character since Melee, so it seems a bit overdue at this point. It's certainly not as pressing as say, getting DK or Metroid newcomers in Ultimate, but it would still be nice.

As for Skull Kid being the front runner for Zelda newcomers, that could be chalked up to a number of things. His assist trophy is one of the few that's still missing, he would also follow the Mii costume trend, and Majora's Mask 3D released in 2015, so he would be fresh on people's minds during the project planning stage.

Now, none of that guarantees Skull Kid, or any Zelda newcomer for that matter, it's just some things to consider.

 

[Frostwraith]

Smash Bros. is still a Nintendo consoles crossover guys.

You ain't getting Kratos.

Don’t express that opinion on this specific thread. More than half the users will attack the hell out of you for not wanting more 3rd parties and they will cry “NINTENDO DONT HAVE MORE 1ST PARTY KARACTERS GIVE ME SPRYO THE FLAMMING DRAGGON PLS”

Of course Smash is still primarily based on Nintendo because they are the IP owner and obviously wouldn't want to promote characters from a competing first party company even if Sakurai himself couldn't care less about console wars.

This said, although characters like Cloud, Snake and Spyro are heavily associated with PlayStation consoles, it nonetheless remains a fact that they're third party characters respectively belonging to Square Enix, Konami and Activision and they all have games on Nintendo platforms. There's no need to negotiate anything with Sony in regards to those characters.

It's like saying Mega Man and Simon are Nintendo characters just because they're heavily associated with the NES. They still have plenty of games on PlayStation and Xbox consoles. Meanwhile, Kratos is a first party character belonging to Sony. Sakurai probably doesn't care much about that, but Nintendo much likely does and they have the power to stop Sakurai from including certain characters.

And yes, the marketing of Smash Bros. did change to a more general "gaming icons" in Ultimate as opposed to emphasizing on Nintendo like the previous games. They're marketing it as more than a Nintendo crossover this time around and the game has enough content from third party games to back that up.

This, however, isn't mutually exclusive with Nintendo IPs still dominating the content, again, as Smash Bros. is a Nintendo franchise. Nintendo characters are still far more likely to be added for a wide variety of reasons including ease of negotiating the rights of the franchises and more demand from the fanbase for Nintendo characters overall as the majority of Smash fans stick with Nintendo systems and games.

This said, third party characters do increase the appeal of the game and can bring new fans to the Smash series that otherwise wouldn't, and in turn, they can find themselves curious about the other games represented, leading them to get more Nintendo games they get exposed to.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

What series are left really? Metroid finally got the love it deserves, I guess DK could argue for Dixie, but everything else is either small or is getting their content in DLC like 99% (Xenoblade I'm looking at you). Bandanna Dee I could see an argument for.

Mother? The franchise is basically dead at this point. Same with F-Zero. And I ****ing love F-Zero, I just don't see them adding a new rep when we haven't had a new game in so long.

You could say that each series only needs its big players, yet we still got Daisy. At this point, apart from adding ARMS and new third-parties, there won't be much else to do other than mine into the past (well, except for Mother, Sakurai is certainly respecting Itoi's wishes about that, and it does have a smorgasbord of content other than characters to make up for it).

And I'm 99% sure Sakurai will put in a character from a minor/unrepresented IP that most people never knew they wanted, once again.

 

[Idon]

How many of those games were on Nintendo consoles? What does he have to do with Nintendo? Why him over anyone else, especially a character that is iconic to the company making the game and is the cornerstone theming of the game?

None, Nothing, He's the most iconic action game protagonist and directly lead to the creation of an entirely new popular genre on top of a massively popular series in general.

Now if you couldn't tell, I was joking about Dante, but if, and this is a very big if here, Sakurai decided to throw all pretenses of Nintendo history out, Dante should be the FIRST to be featured.

Regardless, I don't think he's happening. If Sakurai 100% stopped giving a **** about Nintendo history, then he would've gotten in over Bayonetta.

 

[Deleted member]

None, Nothing, He's the most iconic action game protagonist and directly lead to the creation of an entirely new popular genre on top of a massively popular series in general.

Now if you couldn't tell, I was joking about Dante, but if, and this is a very big if here, Sakurai decided to throw all pretenses of Nintendo history out, Dante should be the FIRST to be featured.

Regardless, I don't think he's happening. If Sakurai 100% stopped giving a **** about Nintendo history, then he would've gotten in over Bayonetta.

Thanks for the response! I hope I didn't sound rude in my original post, I was legitimately curious about the reasoning.

Dante is something I could see happening if Smash was a general video game crossover. However, that is simply not the case, as every 3rd party character featured does have ties to Nintendo (yes, even Cloud).

 

[Pakky]

Oh well...huh I thought this could happen.

 

[Buzzwole]

So in regards to the perceived lack of Zelda newcomers vs content, I think that the issue is less that Zelda is poorly represented, as pointed out by many of you, it has 6 characters, numerous stages, and plenty of items. I think the point that some are trying to make is that we haven't had a truly unique Zelda character since Melee, so it seems a bit overdue at this point. It's certainly not as pressing as say, getting DK or Metroid newcomers in Ultimate, but it would still be nice.

As for Skull Kid being the front runner for Zelda newcomers, that could be chalked up to a number of things. His assist trophy is one of the few that's still missing, he would also follow the Mii costume trend, and Majora's Mask 3D released in 2015, so he would be fresh on people's minds during the project planning stage.

Now, none of that guarantees Skull Kid, or any Zelda newcomer for that matter, it's just some things to consider.

Skull Kid is absolutely what the Zelda representation needs in Smash. I really hope he gets in.
Zelda needs a character that isn't an incarnation of Link, Zelda, or Ganon. Skull Kid fits the bill while also being another villain. His iconic design doesn't hurt either.

I also was a huge advocate for Tingle, but his active role on Great Bay makes me think he's not all that likely.

 

[SlickWylde]

At first I thought we would get our final Smash Direct in November, but now I do think we will possibly see our final Smash Ultimate Direct mid October.

At this moment in time, Smash Ult. should be quickly approaching gold status. I assume most of us know what "going gold" means, but if you don't it's pretty much the finalization of a game, and the beginning of production of game copies for sale. Games usually go gold about a month before release date.

With copies going out into the wild, Sakurai and his team risk content being leak (Notable instance being the ESRB ****show) So to get ahead info being leaked, mid maybe late October seems like a perfect time to show off the rest of the base roster anything else worth leaking.

I hear people throwing out ideas of the Direct as early as next week; me personally I think the week of the 18th or 25th in October are sound dates too. But I do feel as if October will be the month.

So a mid October Direct revealing all of (however many you believe are left) the remaining characters? Hmm... We'd know the full roster almost 2 months before release. I don't know. It's not unreasonable...