Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Darkraid]

Now now, let's not get hasty now shall we?
Geno is still possible like


Said.
HOWEVER.
This raise the question of why the **** would you do that? If I give you a list of characters with:
Neku
Geno
Erdrick
Noctis

For Smash bros, what's even the point? That's like putting a list with 5 Pokémon, and Pikachu in the middle and say "Well, guess who's in Smash?" I don't know if you get what I mean?

There also the fact that Vergeben say this so casually that, it makes me sliiightly anxious... Like, he usually do not comment about Any characters, as rumored/Expected as they are except if he's sure they're not in/they're in.
And the fact that, as "Expected" Geno is he still can't say it's a name in his list is suspicious.

I agree. Geno is more unlikely now. Heads wouldnt roll if it was Geno.

If it is Sora, it might be tied to the fact that KH3 miggt be going to switch. Heads will roll

 

[Paperchampion23]

Guys....who ever is saying "RIP Geno" or "bye Geno" are completely misinterpreting what Verg is saying.

He's saying that SE would likely not fire someone over mentioning Geno because so many people expect it. This has nothing to do with deconfirming Geno lol. Vergeben can't give out a list of names because of other characters mentioned. He doesn't know which are fake and which one (or possibly 2) are real, saying any of them could cost people jobs.

 

[domriver]

I know I'm in the minority here, but I'm preparing for a Smash Direct next week.


Yeah, it 'could' be a Robin/Lucina reveal, but I'm just really doubtful there is going to be one of those.


At this point, to me, it's Direct or bust.

What if its bust? what would you do?

Yeah, you could take that to mean "welp, Geno is speculated so much, we don't care if his name leaks lol."

Im in this belief. Geno may very will be it. The whole secrecy could be just to throw people off.

 

[UberMadman]

There's only so many resources and so much time Sakurai and the team can give to characters. If Ken is in and Shadow isn't, that means they used those resources towards Ken and not Shadow or a whole host of characters. So yes, Ken would have taken a slot that Shadow could have taken instead.

That doesn't mean I have any animus against people who genuinely want Ken, Incineroar, Sora, or anyone else etc. in. There's nothing our support can do at this point to change who makes it in base. I'm hopeful Shadow makes base but the box theory has severely ratcheted down my expectations for who I want in. Box theory seemingly being true is a pretty big bummer but I do have the hope of DLC for sure. It's just not going to be fun waiting on pins and needles to see if Sakurai ****s with my hopes yet again.

I will be a pillar of salt if Shadow is cut out entirely.

I mean, yeah, developing Ken would take development time that could have been used on another echo. So would taking time to develop a stage, or program a boss, or design a trophy. Development time is shared between literally everything that gets into this game; it would be silly to single out Ken and say "if he wasn't in the game, they could have had time for Shadow," when I could do the same thing for any other echo fighter, or, say five of the stages, or a few of the optional features. Yes, both Ken and Shadow are both 3rd party echo fighters, but I guarantee you Sakurai didn't say at the beginning of development prior to deciding the roster "I only want this roster to have two third-party echoes in it at max, not three. Between Ken, Richter, and Shadow, I'm arbitrarily only going to allow two of them to make it in."

 

[Thinkaman]

I mean, if you're going to include Kingdom Hearts as part of Cloud's Nintendo ties, it's only fair to include Project X Zone for Dante, just saying.

Crap, you're right, Frank West is gonna be in Smash. How did we all not see it?

 

[SvartWolf]

Segata Sanshiro for Smash?

I would be totally OK if he is a mii costume.
speaking of mii costumes, we don't even know if those are coming back...

And yeah i also think the final smash direct will be the october thing. I opwuld say if there is a new invitational with different characters that is enougth hype for november.... but honestly i think that tv ad is for the e3 invitational. Which is obviously not aimed toward the smash enthusiast that usually looks at nintendo tweeters (a better place to announce a second invitational) and is aimed toward people who only casually have touched smash. (and is likely to watch tv)

Regarding Dante.. if he is in, i expect to be revealed alongside all the past DMC series ports on the switch though... even if he is not in, i think DMC ports to teh switch is only a matter of time

 

[Darkraid]

As much as i want DLC, and i think that DLC could greatly help boost "nintendo online" popularity thinking 10 characters in a year is very unreasonable...even if we are thinking padding that number with echoes. I expect 3 uniques when im feeling super positive DX

I would think 2 uniques and 3 echoes every six months

 

[Deleted member]

Guys....who ever is saying "RIP Geno" or "bye Geno" are completely misinterpreting what Verg is saying.

He's saying that SE would likely not fire someone over mentioning Geno because so many people expect it. This has nothing to do with deconfirming Geno lol. Vergeben can't give out a list of names because of other characters mentioned. He doesn't know which are fake and which one (or possibly 2) are real, saying any of them could cost people jobs.

It's sad that we don't have the ability to give people cookies over the internet for telling facts. Thank you.

 

[cothero]

I know I'm in the minority here, but I'm preparing for a Smash Direct next week.


Yeah, it 'could' be a Robin/Lucina reveal, but I'm just really doubtful there is going to be one of those.


At this point, to me, it's Direct or bust.

May God hear you.

 

[Robertman2]

Here's a list of the released Final Fantasy titles on Nintendo platforms:

• Final Fantasy
• Final Fantasy Adventure
• Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles
• Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: Echoes of Time
• Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: My Life as a Darklord
• Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: My Life as a King
• Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: Ring of Fates
• Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: The Crystal Bearers
• Final Fantasy Explorers
• Final Fantasy Fables: Chocobo Tales
• Final Fantasy Fables: Chocobo's Dungeon
• Final Fantasy II
• Final Fantasy III
• Final Fantasy III (Nintendo DS)
• Final Fantasy IV
• Final Fantasy IV Advance
• Final Fantasy IV: The After Years
• Final Fantasy Legend II
• Final Fantasy Legend III
• The Final Fantasy Legend
• Final Fantasy Mystic Quest
• Final Fantasy Tactics A2: Grimoire of the Rift
• Final Fantasy Tactics Advance
• Final Fantasy V
• Final Fantasy V Advance
• Final Fantasy VI
• Final Fantasy VI Advance
• Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings
• Final Fantasy: The 4 Heroes of Light
• Theatrhythm Final Fantasy
• Theatrhythm Final Fantasy: Curtain Call

Additionally, here are the released Kingdom Hearts titles on Nintendo platforms:

• Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories
• Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days
• Kingdom Hearts Re: coded
• Kingdom Hearts: Dream Drop Distance

Bolded titles include Cloud Strife.



Here's a list of the released Devil May Cry titles on Nintendo platforms:























Bolded titles include Dante.

Yeah, real sure Sakurai was thinking of Kingdom Hearts and some random spinoffs when he added Cloud.

Sakurai only cares about if the character is a gaming icon

 

[Will]

If you think that refutes his entire argument, I'm gonna say 50 titles vs 1still aint gonna cut it, chief.

Are we arguing Cloud vs Dante on who should've cut it first or if Dante was on a Nintendo system?

 

[Shroob]

I think this is much too optimistic but I can only hope you're right. Updating the YouTube playlist with apparently one video really lends itself to Robin/Lucina like reveal but you never know!

But, we don't know how many videos were added. All we know is that the playlist was updated.

It was 70 videos before it was 'updated'.

 

[Nekoo]

Yeah, you could take that to mean "welp, Geno is speculated so much, we don't care if his name leaks lol."

That's how I read it, but it still make no sense to creates tons of Secret name list of fake trap and Nintendo being secretive as **** just for it to be
"Oh yeah lmao here's the expected character."
And this.

Guys....who ever is saying "RIP Geno" or "bye Geno" are completely misinterpreting what Verg is saying.

He's saying that SE would likely not fire someone over mentioning Geno because so many people expect it. This has nothing to do with deconfirming Geno lol. Vergeben can't give out a list of names because of other characters mentioned. He doesn't know which are fake and which one (or possibly 2) are real, saying any of them could cost people jobs.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is what we need to understand

Im in this belief. Geno may very will be it. The whole secrecy could be just to throw people off.

>Be Square
>Have second Characters in Smash
>See that everyone expect that characters
>Make fake list with that dumb Disney kid, the Disney Kid rip-off in Shibuya, and that Goku guy alongside our boyband member
>No one buy our **** because everyone expect it
>Literally only our employee are surprised
>Just kidding, they're not because we gave such dumb name with the most likely characters in the middle

Square-Enix are playing 4D-chess right now

 

[Deleted member]

It's sad that we don't have the ability to give people cookies over the internet for telling facts. Thank you.

There's a Like button. Use it and subscribe

 

[Zinith]

@TotsBS Hey, is your avatar not working or something? There seems to be a lot of those...

 

[Idon]

Boy, speaking of PxZ, I expected a little arcadey fighting game, but what I got was a weeeeeeird strategy RPG.

I also find it interesting Dante is in his DMC1 attire with his Alastor Devil Trigger.

 

[Shroob]

What if its bust? what would you do?



Im in this belief. Geno may very will be it. The whole secrecy could be just to throw people off.

Depends on who's revealed.

 

[amazonevan19]

Guys we don't even know if a reveal is actually coming next week or the week after at all yet. We simply have a playlist update which may OR MAY NOT mean news is coming soon. Jumping to the conclusion that we're going to be getting a new Nintendo Direct or giant Smash bash because of it may very likely disappoint you.

So speculate away, but just please keep your expectations in check. I don't want this place to be a pillar of salt if radio silence continues for the next couple weeks because a few users here declared that giant reveals are coming due to a playlist update. I really hope it's the case but I am at most expecting a Lucina/Robin trailer drop MAX.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I'm feelin' some , or tonight. If , I hope it's either Rice Beach remix or Greenhorn Forest, Star Wolf remix for or having Fist Bump or Infinite's remix.

I don't have any reason to be feelin' these 3 games, I just hope to hear some of their remixes.

A Sonic remix would be the 2nd biggest win when it comes to music

 

[Nekoo]

It's sad that we don't have the ability to give people cookies over the internet for telling facts. Thank you.

Does it mean I get a Jar of cookies in my bank cookie account with all of the misconception about Sora float around here?

 

[Thinkaman]

I mean, yeah, developing Ken would take development time that could have been used on another echo. So would taking time to develop a stage, or program a boss, or design a trophy. Development time is shared between literally everything that gets into this game; it would be silly to single out Ken and say "if he wasn't in the game, they could have had time for Shadow," when I could do the same thing for any other echo fighter, or, say five of the stages, or a few of the optional features. Yes, both Ken and Shadow are both 3rd party echo fighters, but I guarantee you Sakurai didn't say at the beginning of development prior to deciding the roster "I only want this roster to have two third-party echoes in it at max, not three. Between Ken, Richter, and Shadow, I'm arbitrarily only going to allow two of them to make it in."

Equating Ken and Shadow's development requirements requires equating the licensing discussions and voice actor requirements of two entirely different companies--one of whom was (in late 2015) much smaller than the other.

This is most of the "work" of third party inclusions, at least at the top.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Yeah, real sure Sakurai was thinking of Kingdom Hearts and some random spinoffs when he added Cloud.

Sakurai only cares about if the character is a gaming icon

Yeah... and pretty sure Dante isn't on the level of characters like Sonic, Ryu, PAC-MAN, and Cloud... (Before you say Bayonetta, she is basically a Nintendo character at this point.)

 

[Deoxys911]

Inklings leaking.

Well, now that you've typed that, time to burn your computer history, just to be safe.

Well, "rip Geno"... unless you read Verg's statement and the surrounding posts in context, and it's merely Verg stating why he doesn't believe people already leaking Geno would likely result in firings.

Person at SE who was told Geno was getting into Smash: (Goes onto GameFAQs.) (Starts applying for jobs.)

 

[Shroob]

Guys we don't even know if a reveal is actually coming next week or the week after at all yet. We simply have a playlist update which may OR MAY NOT mean news is coming soon. Jumping to the conclusion that we're going to be getting a new Nintendo Direct or giant Smash bash because of it may very likely disappoint you.

So speculate away, but just please keep your expectations in check. I don't want this place to be a pillar of salt if radio silence continues for the next couple weeks because a few users here declared that giant reveals are coming due to a playlist update. I really hope it's the case but I am at most expecting a Lucina/Robin trailer drop MAX.

Except we have good reason to believe it's very soon.

The only times this has happened in the past was when the August and September Direct were on their way.


A reveal 'is' imminent, who it is is anyone's guess.

 

[TheCJBrine]

So I tried updating my avatar to include Summit as the background instead of the void...and I keep getting a server error

 

[FalconFire93]

Ladies and Gentlemen...

Here we go.

At least some news is better than no news, I guess.

 

[SvartWolf]

I would think 2 uniques and 3 echoes every six months

regarding echoes, while they are an amazing way to strengthen teh roster withouth making new characters a living hell to develope, there is a very reduced list of characters that could work as echoes while being able to be as similar as posible to teh original fighter so balancing them is a non issue...
you are literally expecting 6 echoes... and they would be?
yes, shadow, Impa, medusa work... Dixie, Black shadow and Celica could work, albeit awkwardly, and felix only works is Isaac is previously in...

If you start suggesting names like Hilda, it does means that we are getting to the bottom of the barrel.

 

[Deleted member]

@TotsBS Hey, is your avatar not working or something? There seems to be a lot of those...

I've tried to update my avatar multiple times and all I get is the "OOPSIE WOOPSIE" message. I don't know if I'll be able to update it at all, but I'LL TRY MY BEST TO GET THE FULL FORM YOU BET.

There's a Like button. Use it and subscribe

But... Can we S M A S H it?

Does it mean I get a Jar of cookies in my bank cookie account with all of the misconception about Sora float around here?

It depends, you're gonna have to need a Cookie Accountant for that one.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

If you think that refutes his entire argument, I'm gonna say 50 titles vs 1still aint gonna cut it, chief.

Depends; if his argument is that they need a Nintendo appearance? Then yeah, it does.

If it's a bad argument that Cloud magically got in because the Final Fantasy series started on Nintendo? Then yeah, it does. It was never a good one and had no bearing on choosing the character. FF is a juggernaut series in gaming. That's all that mattered when choosing an option. If Sakurai remotely cared about the Nintendo factor(which he didn't), he'd choose someone actually with ties to Nintendo. Instead he said to forget console wars and went with the character that mattered.

Cloud did not get in at all because of some Nintendo appearances. He got in because he's the most iconic rpg protagonist in gaming and that FF as a juggernaut series was going to be represented. None of it was a Nintendo-related choice. It's almost like Sakurai doesn't give a rat's ass if the 3rd party series has ties with Nintendo or not in itself. There's always actual things worth caring about. Like the character being highly requested(which is what Geno has going for him. If it weren't for the high requests? He wouldn't be even a costume).

This stigma that Nintendo relevance somehow matters for 3rd parties really needs to stop. It's just a bad fan perception. Smash does celebrate Nintendo gaming too, of course. But it also celebrates gaming as a whole, as its own separate way of doing it. Literally the only 3rd party to get in that has any legitimate ties with Nintendo is Bayonetta, who isn't even a gaming icon(at least she wasn't when she got in. She's actually really close to becoming a low level one). But many of them were still popular picks to begin with, regardless of Nintendo history. For that matter, Sakurai's statement was "they must have gaming history". His other statement "them appearing on a Nintendo console could be considered something of a courtesy". That doesn't spell requirement. That spells the idea it could be remotely useful. And since licensing was always the issue with every 3rd party in existence, a character with a previous Nintendo appearance has a fair chance of being easier to license again since the companies worked together before. That's literally all it ever meant at any point. He has not at any time acted like Nintendo appearances really mattered at any point anyway. On the other hand, he's made it reasonably clear that being a game character first is actually something he cares about to some degree. Which is good, because that's what legitimately matters for gaming icons anyway.

 

[Robertman2]

Yeah... and pretty sure Dante isn't on the level of characters like Sonic, Ryu, PAC-MAN, and Cloud... (Before you say Bayonetta, she is basically a Nintendo character at this point.)

He's more Simon/Mega Man level

 

[Shroob]

My biggest issue with believing in a Robin/Lucina reveal is.......how?


Like, okay, say it gives us 1 character.... how many do you expect are left for the Final Smash Direct?


Like, I was under the guise that the estimate was about 2 newcomers and 2 echoes roughly, yet revealing either a newcomer or an echo ahead of that feels kinda....asinine?


Like, if there really aren't a lot of reveals left, which I think 4 max is what we could be working with, why would they give us one separate from the Direct and give it to us separately?

 

[Thinkaman]

Yeah, real sure Sakurai was thinking of Kingdom Hearts and some random spinoffs when he added Cloud.

Sakurai only cares about if the character is a gaming icon

As evidenced by the inclusion of John MacTavish, Tommy Vercetti, and Bella Goth in Smash 4.

Even if this wasn't nonsense, we'd be seeing Lara Croft, Crash Bandicoot, Goku, Minecraft Guy, Heihachi, Ratchet, Rayman, Marcus, Big Daddy, Sora, Kratos, Prince (of Persia), Spyro, Lloyd, Tony Hawk, and random crew members from Just Dance before we work all the way down to DMC's level of success.

What we know Sakurai was thinking, because he told us, is that he wanted a Final Fantasy character, and concluded Cloud was simply the best option--even though Cloud's personal impact on Nintendo's history was less than the franchise at large.

 

[Idon]

Are we arguing Cloud vs Dante on who should've cut it first or if Dante was on a Nintendo system?

Gonna say his argument is that Cloud and/or FF has more claim to Nintendo history than Dante. That's probably not false.

 

[Chrono.]

Shadow feels like another Smash 4 Wolf situation now.

The biggest "shoo-in" that never actually gets in.

On the base roster at least.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Anybody else just kind of checked out of character speculation at this point? Like I’m more interested in potential assist trophies now.

Speaking of that, anybody have any crazy assist trophy predictions among the likes of shovel knight or Rathalos?

 

[Nekoo]

Shadow feels like another Smash 4 Wolf situation now.

The biggest "shoo-in" that never actually gets in.

On the base roster at least.

Then who's the "K.Rool totally win the ballot guys" characters then?

 

[Potato_]

My biggest issue with believing in a Robin/Lucina reveal is.......how?


Like, okay, say it gives us 1 character.... how many do you expect are left for the Final Smash Direct?


Like, I was under the guise that the estimate was about 2 newcomers and 2 echoes roughly, yet revealing either a newcomer or an echo ahead of that feels kinda....asinine?


Like, if there really aren't a lot of reveals left, which I think 4 max is what we could be working with, why would they give us one separate from the Direct and give it to us separately?

It's a good point, the only thing is that I just can't see us getting this final direct so early. That's literally the only thing making me iffy on believing we could get a full direct.

Also I can't see Sakurai saying what he said recently, and then dropping all of the characters we have left at once. From what it sounds like he's going to slowly drop them instead of doing another large drop ala the August direct. In that sense, doing a simple reveal trailer would make more sense.

 

[Chrono.]

Then who's the "K.Rool totally win the ballot guys" characters then?

Geno if he doesn't get in lol.

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

Anybody else just kind of checked out of character speculation at this point? Like I’m more interested in potential assist trophies now.

Speaking of that, anybody have any crazy assist trophy predictions among the likes of shovel knight or Rathalos?

KOS-MOS is likely for an AT role I'd say (though I'd rather she'd be playable).

 

[AlphaSSB]

Shadow feels like another Smash 4 Wolf situation now.

The biggest "shoo-in" that never actually gets in.

Oof.

Rough times.