Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Pazzo.]

You've heard of Music Theory, you've debated box theory, now get ready for...

A card.

 

[Aeon Lupin]

The box theory hinged on the fact Corrin was pushed out his groups of 9 by an echo. Aka, Ken. The download card just lined up all the revealed characters in a neat and completed looking fashion, not consistent with the alleged box shuffle. This doesn't hurt or help it. It's just a placeholder.

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

You've heard of Music Theory, you've debated box theory, now get ready for...

A card.

There was also a blog theory as well, geez what's next?

 

[Deleted member]

There was also a blog theory as well, geez what's next?

Game Theory. Ness is actually an echo of the yet to be revealed Sans. He's just not labeled as 10ε yet because that would spoil the surprise.

 

[Pazzo.]

Next theory: Null Theory.

The lack of information over a short period of time confirms X character.

 

[Wyoming]

There was also a blog theory as well, geez what's next?

Prepare yourself for "commercial theory" when they start playing commercials and it looks different from the card and the box!

 

[Booper Blooper]

What we see on the card is almost guaranteed to be final, meaning that Ken wouldn't be in Smash if this was the real layout (no space between Ryu and Corrin).

The only connection this has to the box theory is the fact that there are two missing spaces. Other than that, I don't consider this to help the box theory's credibility.

I'm confused on why you think it would be final?
It's already released, why would it have to have the final roster layout on it?

 

[Pazzo.]

Oh, and don't forget Spirits Theory. When Spirits mode is shown, something well set someone off like that "Golden Sun" """"reference.""""

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Card theory? Can someone inform me?

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Wait... what am I hearing about these cards? Anyone care to explain? I just woke up...

 

[Untouch]

Did someone say theories?
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLA1lIms2gwaCzNYbHXr0cgG9dgL2nUAQF

The Japanese playlist updated 2 days ago, this also happened about a week before Isabelle's reveal. The English playlist did not update and didn't last time either.

 

[Cosmic77]

I'm confused on why you think it would be final?
It's already released, why would it have to have the final roster layout on it?

This essentially supports what I've saying all along. Both the box and the card do NOT feature the entire roster. They only feature characters who were planned to be revealed at the time.

In other words, the card only features characters pre-Isabelle, while the box likely features characters pre-Ken and Incineroar/SE rep.

 

[Hydrualic Hydra]

Card theory? Can someone inform me?

Memes.

Basically intentionally less structured, less supported, worse box theory 2.0.

 

[Jetsurge]

The Smash playlist was updated 2 days ago. Last time this happened about a week before Isabelle was revealed.

Playlist -
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLA1lIms2gwaCzNYbHXr0cgG9dgL2nUAQF

Proof it happened with Isabelle -
https://old.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/9bvruj/jp_challenger_playlist_updated_4_days_ago/

 

[Pakky]

I'm back from ban prison, wooo!

So, okay been thinking about dem pocket monsters and I'm wondering if Zeraora is too new to join Inceneroar?

Because we kinda always get two guys from Pokemon don't we?

I mean both of them have movies but Zeraora is just kinda tacked on to the 'end' of the gen.

Though I am fond of Tsareena

 

[Booper Blooper]

This essentially supports what I've saying all along. Both the box and the card do NOT feature the entire roster. They only feature characters who were planned to be revealed at the time.

In other words, the card only features characters pre-Isabelle, while the box likely features characters pre-Ken and Incineroar/SE rep.

I'm not particularly a huge believer in the box myself, but there is definitely a difference between something scheduled to release in October and a mock up of a launch day product.
Obviously the latter also doesn't need the final roster, by any means, but just because it would make no sense for the card to have the final layout doesn't mean that the box can't by default.

 

[Robertman2]

Both this card theory and the box theory are awful

 

[Megadoomer]

Card theory? Can someone inform me?

Wait... what am I hearing about these cards? Anyone care to explain? I just woke up...

A download card in Japan has the game's roster on it with two conspicuous blank spaces.

https://nintendosoup.com/japan-first-look-at-the-super-smash-bros-ultimate-download-card/

With something like this, it seems easy to at least shuffle the locations of characters around. It could hint towards there being two more characters, but that could be a coincidence. (some people say that the boxes could be stretched or shrunk to fit more in there, which is possible, but it seems tougher to do while keeping the roster spread out so evenly and neatly)

 

[Frostwraith]

They only added Dr. Mario so Super Mario would still be the top.

Wrong. Dr. Mario was added in Melee because he was a viable choice as a last-minute clone character.

As for Zelda, it's hard to pick from since most Zelda characters other than Link/Zelda/Ganon only appear in 1-3 games.

Sheik only appears in Ocarina of Time, so your point is moot.

But yeah we can all agree FE shouldn't have more fighters than Zelda. Sakurai did admit to making exceptions for FE since he was a fan and he was pressured by Intelligent to add more FE characters to make i more popular.

Citation needed.

As far as it's known, Sakurai only added Marth because he felt he'd be an interesting addition and an alternative to Link as a sword fighter. Roy was added afterwards as a last-minute clone.

Marth and Roy weren't even meant to be in international versions of Melee due to their Japan-only status at the time and they were kept due to the localization team finding them appealing characters.

The interest in FE outside of Japan increased as a consequence of their addition in Melee, sure, but Marth wasn't added for advertising reasons. At the time, Fire Emblem was a popular series that already had 5 titles released in Japan with a 6th in development. That's more than, for example, Metroid that only had 3 games with Prime and Fusion being in development.

Ike was added in Brawl because Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn were the most recent FE games at the time. Robin was added in Smash 3DS/Wii U since Awakening was recent and successful and Sakurai found him unique. Lucina and Chrom are simply echoes of Marth and Roy.

Corrin was added among possible characters from games released after Smash 3DS/Wii U. He's the only character to have executive push behind his inclusion and Sakurai was reluctant to add another Fire Emblem character, but he went ahead due to gameplay potential.

As I've been saying numerous times, gameplay is what ultimately gets characters in Smash.

Basically this all means they focus on some series more than they should but Mario will always be the top.

Again, Brawl had more Pokémon characters than Mario so there's no rule saying that no franchise should have more characters than Mario in Smash.

Mario has a lot more content because it has a lot of games to draw content from. It's Nintendo's biggest franchise with a lot more games and spin-offs than any other franchise in Smash, so it's obvious it will have more content. There's more source material to work with and they generally translate well to Smash's gameplay.

That's all there is to it.

 

[Hydrualic Hydra]

Both this card theory and the box theory are awful

Card theory is a meme, you dip. It's meant to be awful.

If box theory is so awful why is there no legitimate proof against it, or an answer to why the pattern of 9 is broken for Corrin?

(Nobody else respond to this, we don't need another flare-up of box talk)

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

A download card in Japan has the game's roster on it with two conspicuous blank spaces.

https://nintendosoup.com/japan-first-look-at-the-super-smash-bros-ultimate-download-card/

With something like this, it seems easy to at least shuffle the locations of characters around. It could hint towards there being two more characters, but that could be a coincidence. (some people say that the boxes could be stretched or shrunk to fit more in there, which is possible, but it seems tougher to do while keeping the roster spread out so evenly and neatly)

Huh... how convenient, Ryu's right next to a blank space... Probably means that it would be very easy to add Ken in there.
Also on a slightly different topic... How confident are you guys with Incineroar being the final Newcomer?

 

[AugustusB]

Well this is interesting. I wonder then if next week will be a smash direct or just a character trailer. What are we thinking?

With it being updated two days ago and the trailer is shown 10 days prior to the playlist change...So October 9th? 10th for some I believe?

 

[Robertman2]

Huh... how convenient, Ryu's right next to a blank space... Probably means that it would be very easy to add Ken in there.
Also on a slightly different topic... How confident are you guys with Incineroar being the final Newcomer?

100% sure he isn't. My bets are on the Vergeben characters, plus Shadow.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Card theory is a meme, you dip. It's meant to be awful.

If box theory is so awful why is there no legitimate proof against it, or an answer to why the pattern of 9 is broken for Corrin?

People just find it hard to believe that there would only be 2 newcomers left, that's all.

With that said, nothing really proves box/card theory either aside from maybe a statement from Sakurai about slowing down the pace of newcomer reveals, but even then, that's a big stretch to make because that statement can also be a good argument for getting any number of characters lower than 6.

Also, can we talk about how you think card theory is awful, yet seem to believe box theory despite the fact that they're both saying the same thing?

 

[Deleted member]

Because we kinda always get two guys from Pokemon don't we?

Depends on how you want to count Mewtwo. Otherwise, we only had Greninja in Smash 4.

100% sure he isn't. My bets are on the Vergeben characters, plus Shadow.

Which would include Incineroar.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

A download card in Japan has the game's roster on it with two conspicuous blank spaces.

https://nintendosoup.com/japan-first-look-at-the-super-smash-bros-ultimate-download-card/

With something like this, it seems easy to at least shuffle the locations of characters around. It could hint towards there being two more characters, but that could be a coincidence. (some people say that the boxes could be stretched or shrunk to fit more in there, which is possible, but it seems tougher to do while keeping the roster spread out so evenly and neatly)

Ok, at this point I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s actually legit.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

100% sure he isn't. My bets are on the Vergeben characters, plus Shadow.

Incineroar is a Vergeben Character...

 

[JoyStar]

So quick question to everyone here. Who seems like the most likely Top 5 character to appear in Ultimate given recent events?

I'd say...

1. Skull Kid
2. Shadow
3. Incineroar
4. Ken
5. Isaac

 

[Robertman2]

Depends on how you want to count Mewtwo. Otherwise, we only had Greninja in Smash 4.


Which would include Incineroar.

Incineroar is a Vergeben Character...

I know Incineroar is a Vergeben character AND I BELIEVE HE IS IN THE GAME. I JUST don't think Incineroar is the final newcomer, however. My money is on Steve or the SE rep

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Also, Ridleyette is

I have yet to see a Princess Ridley design that's disappointed. She tends to be consistently awesome.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

100% sure he isn't. My bets are on the Vergeben characters, plus Shadow.

>claims Incineroar has no chance
>still believes Vergeben

top kek

EDIT: Oh, you explained yourself right as I posted this. Ignore my post then.

Well this is interesting. I wonder then if next week will be a smash direct or just a character trailer. What are we thinking?

With it being updated two days ago and the trailer is shown 10 days prior to the playlist change...So October 9th? 10th for some I believe?

Wait, playlist change?

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Did someone say theories?
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLA1lIms2gwaCzNYbHXr0cgG9dgL2nUAQF

The Japanese playlist updated 2 days ago, this also happened about a week before Isabelle's reveal. The English playlist did not update and didn't last time either.

Wait it was two days? I thought it was today. Well if it sticks to the 10 day idea then that would be October 10th which is a Wednesday just like the last Smash direct was ..hm...

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

So quick question to everyone here. Who seems like the most likely Top 5 character to appear in Ultimate given recent events?

In no particular order but...
1. Waluigi
2. Skull Kid
3. Geno
4. Isaac
5. Ken

Yes, I just said Waluigi. Considering how many fan favorites are in here, I wouldn’t be surprised if Sakurai just goes “Ha! Gotcha!” Not saying it’ll happen. But I think it could.

 

[Robertman2]

So quick question to everyone here. Who seems like the most likely Top 5 character to appear in Ultimate given recent events?

1. Incineroar
2. Ken
3. Steve
4. Shadow
5. Geno

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

I have yet to see a Princess Ridley design that's disappointed. She tends to be consistently awesome.

Nice signature that trailer was one of the strangest things I’ve seen in a while...

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

I know Incineroar is a Vergeben character. I don't think Incineroar is the final newcomer, however. My money is on Steve or the SE rep

Pretty sure those two are gonna be post game additions

Did someone say theories?
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLA1lIms2gwaCzNYbHXr0cgG9dgL2nUAQF

The Japanese playlist updated 2 days ago, this also happened about a week before Isabelle's reveal. The English playlist did not update and didn't last time either.

Wait... this soon? Wow Sakurai, you're a mad man...

 

[Wyoming]

Wait it was two days? I thought it was today. Well if it sticks to the 10 day idea then that would be October 10th which is a Wednesday just like the last Smash direct was ..hm...

Dang Playlist Theory!!!

 

[NintenRob]

In no particular order but...
1. Waluigi
2. Skull Kid
3. Geno
4. Isaac
5. Ken

Yes, I just said Waluigi. Considering how many fan favorites are in here, I wouldn’t be surprised if Sakurai just goes “Ha! Gotcha!” Not saying it’ll happen. But I think it could.

Just saying, Putting Waluigi at number sort of contradicts your "Not saying it'll happen" a little. Unless you think every single character is unlikely (which is admittedly somewhat fair)


Also I really hope we see Skull Kid. Or something unexpected to shake things up a bit. Especially a Pokemon that's NOT Incineroar. We need another Gematsu destroyer

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Well this is interesting. I wonder then if next week will be a smash direct or just a character trailer. What are we thinking?

With it being updated two days ago and the trailer is shown 10 days prior to the playlist change...So October 9th? 10th for some I believe?

Wait it was two days? I thought it was today. Well if it sticks to the 10 day idea then that would be October 10th which is a Wednesday just like the last Smash direct was ..hm...

This would be incredibly convenient for me, the excitement over that wouldn't die down yet, since Luigi's Mansion on 3DS will be released on the 12th afterwards.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Just saying, Putting Waluigi at number sort of contradicts your "Not saying it'll happen" a little. Unless you think every single character is unlikely (which is admittedly somewhat fair)


Also I really hope we see Skull Kid. Or something unexpected to shake things up a bit. Especially a Pokemon that's NOT Incineroar. We need another Gematsu destroyer

I said no particular order. Waluigi, I think, is the least likely to happen.