Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[True Blue Warrior]

Ok I’m out of the loop. Why does everyone suddenly want Incineroar in/think he’s going to get in. While there may be a new Pokémon fighter, I’ve not seen anything that suggests it’s Incineroar whatsoever, unless it’s a leak I missed?

Vergeben stated that he was going to be in. He also stated that Lycanroc, Mimikyu and Decidueye weren't going to be playable. With Mimikyu already being disconfirmed, people think Incineroar is the current front-runner.

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

Ok I’m out of the loop. Why does everyone suddenly want Incineroar in/think he’s going to get in. While there may be a new Pokémon fighter, I’ve not seen anything that suggests it’s Incineroar whatsoever, unless it’s a leak I missed?

Apparently Verg has the info on Incineroar.
I'm still remaining skeptical until he's shown.

 

[Troykv]

Are we in the hype train again? I wonder what we would have.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Ok I’m out of the loop. Why does everyone suddenly want Incineroar in/think he’s going to get in. While there may be a new Pokémon fighter, I’ve not seen anything that suggests it’s Incineroar whatsoever, unless it’s a leak I missed?

Incineroar is unlikely. Nintendo would never let Pokemon hit double digits before Mario does. In fact, they usually never let a series match Super Mairo anymore.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

So... people don't seem to understand how evil the villains and antagonists actually are...

I'll just make a tier list.

Doesn't try to actively hurt people:

Needs a reason to hurt people:

Hurts people for fun:

A lot of people tend to put characters like Mewtwo, Ganondorf or Bowser as more evil then they actually are.

I always kinda classified Wario as greedy. Don’t know why he would have a reason to hurt people.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Wait, Sheik gets her own Memories post, and Ganondorf doesn't? The Master Quest release of OOT, no less.

I have no idea how the interns even think anymore.

 

[Frostwraith]

Incineroar is unlikely. Nintendo would never let Pokemon hit double digits before Mario does. In fact, they usually never let a series match Super Mairo anymore.

Never mind the fact that Pokémon had more characters than Mario in Brawl.

Where is a source for your claim that Nintendo wouldn't let Pokémon have more characters in Smash than Mario? Sounds like you're making stuff up.

By this logic, Nintendo wouldn't let a smaller franchise like Fire Emblem have more characters than Zelda or Donkey Kong, yet here we are...

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Villain tier list:

Iconic villains for decades:
Popular villains:
Haven't seen in a while/not super relevant anymore:
Not really a villain in comparison:

Never mind the fact that Pokémon had more characters than Mario in Brawl.

Where is a source for your claim that Nintendo wouldn't let Pokémon have more characters in Smash than Mario? Sounds like you're making stuff up.

By this logic, Nintendo wouldn't let a smaller franchise like Fire Emblem have more characters than Zelda or Donkey Kong, yet here we are...

They only added Dr. Mario so Super Mario would still be the top. As for Zelda, it's hard to pick from since most Zelda characters other than Link/Zelda/Ganon only appear in 1-3 games.

But yeah we can all agree FE shouldn't have more fighters than Zelda. Sakurai did admit to making exceptions for FE since he was a fan and he was pressured by Intelligent to add more FE characters to make i more popular.

Basically this all means they focus on some series more than they should but Mario will always be the top.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

If we do end up getting a new character next week (which could very well happen, since that's roughly a month from the intended date of the September Direct), then that pretty much buries the box theory. HIGHLY doubt Ken would be getting his own reveal separate from the final newcomer and Spirits mode.

The only way that's not the case is if this ends up being a second and final Smash Direct, and I honestly can't see them airing it this soon.

I could see them airing a final smash direct this early if we account for the fact that Sakurai is trying to avoid the game leaking and it the series has a history of leaking in the final two months up until release.

So, while I'd be surprised of a final direct next week, it might be to avoid major leaks. I do believe we will have the final direct before Nov 2 now, and whether it's the second week of October, or the third or fourth is kind of trivial.

Never mind the fact that Pokémon had more characters than Mario in Brawl.

Where is a source for your claim that Nintendo wouldn't let Pokémon have more characters in Smash than Mario? Sounds like you're making stuff up.

By this logic, Nintendo wouldn't let a smaller franchise like Fire Emblem have more characters than Zelda or Donkey Kong, yet here we are...

This. Pokemon has almost always had more or equal characters than Mario, Sakurai isn't worried about balancing that. Also if we count roster spots the two series would actually be equal if Pokemon got one more (it's also why I want Zelda to get a unique and echo but eh).

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Anyone interested in looking at the download card?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

If a Franchise needs advertisement from Smash to survive, it probably shouldn't be in Smash.

I’m of two minds for this.

On one hand, there are dormant franchises which have deep and unique characters, but the developers misfire for a game or two. This is pretty much what happened to Soul Calibur.

On the other, there are some suggestions that come off as the typical “I’m better than you since I know this obscure niche Japan-only game that did terribly. This character would be better than [insert popular character here] since that franchise is mainstream!”

I think franchises should have *some* leg to stand on to get a playable character. Yes, it’s nice to have a mixture, but not every franchise is gonna get the Kid Icarus treatment.

Also, we always like to forget assist trophies are a thing, or we consider that the worst possible fate. A lot of Brawl’s assists were obscure - that was the first I heard of Isaac of Advance Wars - so that can also bring them to visibility. Not to mention that some franchises may be better served as a stage instead.

The last thing to consider is DLC. If a popular character from a running franchise gets picked, they’ll sell to most people. If an obscure character from a dead franchise got picked, not many people would go out of their way outside of completionists and fans of that franchise. I often wonder how well even WFT would have done if she were DLC - I probably wouldn’t have bothered, especially if she were near the end.

I think that both sides have a point here, but calling one side or the other ‘ridiculous’ is a bit much. We all have different ideas of what makes Smash Smash. I know I prefer characters I’ve heard of over obscure characters I have no interest in, but I also love most of the FE crew despite not really liking JRPGs. And with limited remaining space, we all want to believe our most wanted have a clear field.

And in addition, we’ve all heard of different things. What’s obscure to one person may be incredibly commonplace to another.

 

[Raspberry]

Unsure about that. But it's been recorded that it definitely happened before the Smash Direct.

Apparently it was updated before the September Direct too. The same timeframe too!

Where can we access the playlist itself? I wasn't able to find anything on YT. Moreover, was it updated 10 days before the initial date of the September Direct or before the new date?

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Mario will forever remain Nintendo's number one and I can't see them putting Pokemon over it. Besides, it was probably hard enough to add 3 returning pokemon.

 

[Untouch]

Anyone interested in looking at the download card?

uh oh that NESS picture

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

Villain tier list:

Iconic villains for decades:
Popular villains:
Haven't seen in a while/not super relevant anymore:
Not really a villain in comparison:

Wait I always thought was an anti hero, he's only been a villain in Super Star cause he was tired of Dreamland's lazy ways from what I remember.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

uh oh that NESS picture

...what’s wrong with Ness?

 

[drag0nscythe]

Luckily they have self-published books covering their articles.



No kidding, I'm getting rather tired of having only 2/3rds of my sig being viewable by people. Where's the damn reveals?

I need to buy the book with Goemon in it.
https://hg101.kontek.net/goemon/goemon.htm

Here is the page for everyone who needs to learn about the Goemon greatness.

And this is the Jimmy Happa channel that has covered some of the Goemon games. I would give it a watch,
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCujG7dnHqZyZwOpFm0JDaCg

 

[Danpal65]

Where can we access the playlist itself? I wasn't able to find anything on YT. Moreover, was it updated 10 days before the initial date of the September Direct or before the new date?

Here’s the link: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLA1lIms2gwaCzNYbHXr0cgG9dgL2nUAQF

The original I believe? Although don’t quote me on that.

 

[Nekoo]

Anyone interested in looking at the download card?

Card theory confirmed. Only two newcomer left

 

[Deleted member]

Anyone interested in looking at the download card?

Box Theory 2: Cards Against Humanity

 

[Untouch]

...what’s wrong with Ness?

There's only 2 empty spaces on that picture, next to Ryu and Isabelle.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

There's only 2 empty spaces on that picture, next to Ryu and Isabelle.

Well, it’s confirmed the space is before Ryu, so DHD echo incoming and no Ken.

Did I do it right?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

>30 minutes and no new posts

Jokes aside, I'd love to see a comic where Isabelle beats up Waluigi and steals his invitation to Smash Bros.

I think Daisy already had that covered (or you know...another certain comic was used to introduce how Waluigi wasn’t in Smash again)

 

[Troykv]

I wanted to reply to this when I first read it, but I was at work and using my phone.

I feel like the people who are concerned with a smaller pool to pull from for newcomers are only thinking of relevant characters and new faces from newly released franchises. There are still a lot of characters that would make excellent additions despite either being "one-note", or no longer relevant. Oppossum went into a long post you can read in this reply, but in case I may, I want to make this into one of these games:

What characters would you want as DLC who are completely irrelevant (Geno incoming...)

I immediately thought of Micaiah from Radiant Dawn (the era of Fire Emblem that's no in style), Wolf Link (Twilight Princess being soooo over; how he wasn't AT LEAST Link's FS in Brawl is baffling), and Blaziken (the 3rd Gen missed the bus; I shudder to think the potential RS Pokemon would have been wasted on another Pichu Plusle & Minun in Brawl).

Or would you only want DLC of current characters from recent games?

Actually Micaiah has some more current usage in the form of Fire Emblem Cipher since 2015 and Fire Emblem Heroes since beginning of 2018.

But yeah, of character that aren't exactly relevant to the main line-up of Nintendo Products... Micaiah would count; and she is of course my most wanted character <3

 

[Deleted member]

Well, it’s confirmed the space is before Ryu, so DHD echo incoming and no Ken.

Did I do it right?

Banjo confirmed

 

[Wyoming]

Huh, the empty space being before Ryu certainly raises a question....

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Anyone interested in looking at the download card?

16gb hot damn...also why does this look like Mario and Sonic are about to start themselves another Civil War?

 

[Flyboy]

A trailer on the website?

The scene starts us off with Ken Masters from Street Fighter lying down on the floor, beaten by a new challenger in the tournament. Sakura comes to his aid, claiming he's too powerful. "Sakura CHARGES IN?!" is shown as a tagline. The mysterious figure reveals itself among the shadows, face to face with the valiant fighter.

It's....It's....Chrom!

His hair glows in the night, revealing his new model where he did do his hair after getting out of bed. Sakura charges at him, but Chrom's new do is so strong he's able to dodge and swipe the female student with his sword, nearly cutting her ear off.

She charges, but gets deflected by the Falchion. As he is about to land the finishing blow with Great Aether, a new challenger appears. The Chinese martial artist, Chun Li, lands into battle! She reassures Sakura, as a new medley of her theme is played in a montage of gameplay. Sakura insists it is not the time to rest, and aids her friend and fellow warrior in the Smash Bros.

At the end, among the rumble, Ken can barely look up as he claims, quite ashamed, "Perhaps....I'll get my chance...another day" before resting once more.

But it was a twist! Ken appears as a boss in Spirits for some reason! Thus he gets his chance today!

I know this is a joke, but god I want Sakura and Chun-Li over Ken.

Not that there's anything wrong with Ken, but Sakura is my main.

 

[rockerpikmin]

Friendlier reminder that Sakurai can't just go back on his planned project plan 2 years into development.

Who said anything about doing that? Even then, he's done it before with last-minute clones, however little work they required.

As a major protagonist, I wouldn't be surprised if Fjorm was designed years ago.

You mean his franchise?

I don't know what you're insinuating but Fjorm is female.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Ugh, not again.

It's like this is the first time people have seen preliminary promo material in their lives.

Mario will forever remain Nintendo's number one and I can't see them putting Pokemon over it. Besides, it was probably hard enough to add 3 returning pokemon.

I'm fine with it, since I've never been much of a Pokémon fan anyways. I'd much rather see more Mario-related characters getting put in.

Besides, Yoshi, DK and Wario (also, Luigi's Mansion, if they feel funny) could use some bolstering.

Are we in the hype train again? I wonder what we would have.

The only hype trains I'm on at the moment are for Luigi's Mansion next week, and picking up my copy of Fist of the North Star: Lost Paradise this week.

I always kinda classified Wario as greedy. Don’t know why he would have a reason to hurt people.

No money and no friends make Wario go something something...

 

[Xgears]

You could say that if you want but that would mean that we probably would've never gotten Mega Man. Or Pac-Man. Or Simon and Snake depending on who you ask.

I mean, do we HAVE to mention F-Zero, Mother, Metroid, or Kid Icarus?

Edit: forgot Metroid.

MGS doesn't need Smash lol. As for others, the only ones worth bringing back are Megaman (because of X), Castlevania, maybe PAC-MAN. But the rest aren't as important and unforgettable.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Anyone interested in looking at the download card?

Card theory confirmed. Only two newcomer left

There's only 2 empty spaces on that picture, next to Ryu and Isabelle.

I was waiting for someone to point that out (didn't have to wait long lol).

Yea die hard box theorists are going to like this. I'm not a die hard box theorist but this doesn't mean anything. IN FACT, it actually might imply the box theory is crap and that most promotional art will have two empty spaces, to balance out the currently revealed roster. There I just saved all you box haters lol.

 

[Staarih]

Anyone interested in looking at the download card?

According to that article the card is already being sold in Japan, so it's a final product right (as of now)? So obviously it only has the characters revealed so far and the layout won't change later (since it's already out).

...but conveniently it has two "empty" spaces so any box theorist will likely pick up on it and try to see a connection.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Mario will forever remain Nintendo's number one and I can't see them putting Pokemon over it

Mario no.1 and Pokémon no.2 with Zelda at 3rd, just the way Nintendo should be

 

[Wyoming]

I was waiting for someone to point that out (didn't have to wait long lol).

Yea die hard box theorists are going to like this. I'm not a die hard box theorist but this doesn't mean anything. IN FACT, it actually might imply the box theory is crap and that most promotional art will have two empty spaces, to balance out the currently revealed roster. There I just saved all you box haters lol.

The empty space being before Ryu definitely tells me it's possible it is not the full roster with only two newcomers left.

Ryu could slide to the left, but that would be weird to do so close to release...

Guess we'll see.

 

[Xgears]

That’s silly. It’s a good thing Sakurai includes all kinds of characters from all kinds of franchises because it sounds like you’re saying that only franchises that are already thriving deserve to be in Smash. That’s a squandering of Smash’s marketing potential. Remember it was Marth and Roy’s inclusion in Melee that even convinced Nintendo to localize the franchise and bring it to the West. Nobody knew what the heck a Fire Emblem was before then.

I don’t understand what people are arguing against here. I can want Isaac in Smash for his own sake, and I can also hope that seeing him in Smash will make people curious about the franchise, which MAY convince Nintendo to give it another shot. It’s all intertwined. But to answer your original question, Golden Sun had so much more than just good graphics. It combined Pokemon like monster collecting, Zelda style environmental puzzles, traditional turn based combat, and a super interesting magic system that was useful both within combat and outside it. Xenoblade and Fire Emblem do basically none of those things, and saying Nintendo doesn’t “need” Golden Sun because those two exist is like saying they should stop making Donkey Kong and Yoshi games because Mario and Kirby exist. The gaming world is wide enough for all of the above.

It’s true that Dark Dawn didn’t sell well, but the original two titles meant a lot to a lot of people and it would be a vindication of our love for what we consider a very special series to see Isaac in Smash. But for the record he would make a fantastic and unique fighter. If the series isn’t for you that’s totally understandable but it definitely has a passionate fanbase, friend.

I could think of other fighters with "uniquess" having a sword guy with magic isn't that original, we have already have Robin and Cloud to an extent. Sure Donkey and Yoshi games aren't needed, they're Mario characters. As for Golden Sun, if it was that good how come it doesn't get talked outside of Smash? It's similar to Geno.

 

[Troykv]

Anyone interested in looking at the download card?

Well... that is interesting; we definitely are going to get two characters (at least?) before release then

 

[CaptainAmerica]

The empty space being before Ryu definitely tells me it's possible it is not the full roster with only two newcomers left.

Ryu could slide to the left, but that would be weird to do so close to release...

There’s a simple explanation here for both: the current revealed roster works well in a grid so they put the two blanks at the back/bottom.

The card came out, so of course it’s not gonna have the final roster before the last one(s) is/are revealed. The box remains to be seen, but it’s not outside the realm of possibility that it’ll be incomplete if Sakurai still has something to hide when it goes to print.

We shouldn’t expect much, but thinking that this all goes together with “Duck hunt echo and Incineroar,” (which now refutes Vergy) is equally blinded.

 

[Cosmic77]

What we see on the card is almost guaranteed to be final, meaning that Ken wouldn't be in Smash if this was the real layout (no space between Ryu and Corrin).

The only connection this has to the box theory is the fact that there are two missing spaces. Other than that, I don't consider this to help the box theory's credibility.

 

[PSIGuy]

Damn, can't believe they're going to update each and every one of these download cards to reflect newcomers as they come out. Seems kind of time-consuming, expensive and pointless to me but it's not like they could print new ones to properly reflect all revealed newcomers. There's nothing more set in stone then printed paper and cardboard, after all.