Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[osby]

I don't, don't see why Nintendo would care about Isaac and Golden Sun when they got Xenoblade and Fire Emblem as their RPG style games now. There's nothing that stands out from Golden Sun other than it had good graphics.

1. Fire Emblem was always here.
2. Golden Sun is a classical turn-based RPG with its unique mechanics, it's nothing like those two, especially Xenoblade.
3. If Nintendo can make 22000 platformers, it can also make three RPGs beside Pokemon.

 

[Nekoo]

Funny, I've always thought a lot of discussion got shut down because of leaks and fantheories here.

"What do you think it means that Bethesda talked to Nintendo about Smash?"
"Bethesda doesn't make Ken or Incineroar, so nothing."
"But what about...?"
"Ken. And. Incineroar. Only."

That's true for both side of the community.
Remember when people tried to talk about someone else than Decidueyes before Vergeben's claim and got like "hum Only Decidueyes"
Or that Ridley was a Never Ever?
That K.Rool was OBVIOUSLY the Smash 4 DLC pick and no one else?
Remember when you tried to talk about a new FE rep and got swarm of hate?
Remember when people laughed at Daisy's chance in Smash and people quoted the infamous 1% from Source gaming?
Remember when People said that Cloud would definitely be cut for Ultimate? (I remember that Clearly because Jesus Christ I was one of the rare one believing that Everyone was returning and defended Cloud)

And look where we are? We have a second SE rep almost at hand. But now what happens?
Try to entertain the idea of Someone else than Geno being the SE rep and you'll see tons of people suddenly becoming professional Lawyer with 96 interview and 50 reason of why no one else can be and throw misinformation about everyone else. (Not to Target anyone specific but it happens sadly way too much recently)


The Smash community is just tons of people bandwaggoning something. Get proved wrong 90% of the time before jumping ship and go into another waggon and ignore everything by closing their eyes.


However now mention Sexuality, Goku, and Pyra and you'll get 10+ page in an hour.

With veterans no longer an option, Ultimate's DLC will probably fall into three categories: longtime first-party fan favourites, relevancy picks (ARMS, XC2, Gen 8 Pokemon, FE protag) and big-name third parties. The latter is probably the most profitable, but I don't think the others will be neglected. While fanservice picks like Isaac may have a more niche appeal, people will be persuaded to buy them if they look fun to play as or if they turn out to be good competitively. Echoes may be less exciting, but then they require less development time and can be sold for cheaper. There's also the fact that people won't want to leave gaps in the roster: Corrin had a limited appeal compared to the other DLC characters, but I'm sure loads of people thought 'why not, might as well have them all.'

I think the same honestly, I can see first one or two DLC being big Third Parties before going for fan favorite picks tbh

You'll get Xenoblade Chronicles Medley Ver.2 and you'll like it! It cuts from Gaur Plains to You Will Know Our Names midway. The songs aren't actually remixed but rather just pasted together.

I will always be mad at how lazy that "medley" was compared to Megaman's

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Nintendo seems to have very weird rulesets that apply to some series but not to others.

They refuse to make a new F-Zero game without something fresh... and at the same time they reduced the Star Fox series to a bunch of Star Fox 64 remakes and make the word "new" more ironic each time with the Mario series.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yeah, but, to be fair, they also don't invite Samus to go go Karting...

Samus is a known 'Wrecker of planets and your ****', that title doesn't earn her many invitations

 

[Xgears]

1. Fire Emblem was always here.
2. Golden Sun is a classical turn-based RPG with its unique mechanics, it's nothing like those two, especially Xenoblade.
3. If Nintendo can make 22000 platformers, it can also make three RPGs beside Pokemon.

So how come they stopped making them?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

So how come they stopped making them?

Nintendo stops making lots of things randomly. Metroid died for 8 years in the past and took a similar hiatus after Other M

 

[osby]

Nintendo seems to have very weird rulesets that apply to some series but not to others.

They refuse to make a new F-Zero game without something fresh... and at the same time they reduced the Star Fox series to a bunch of Star Fox 64 remakes and make the word "new" more ironic each time with the Mario series.

Not making any new games always struck me like the own decision of F-Zero developers, like it happened with Mother.

So how come they stopped making them?

Because Dark Dawn didn't met the expectations. It's not that weird, similar hiatuses happened with Metroid or DKC.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Not making any new games always struck me like the own decision of F-Zero developers, like it happened with Mother.

I don't know. To me it seems like Nintendo higher-ups conflating two games in the same genre and backing the one that sells better and when people complain, say they've got the other. In this case, Mario Kart over F-Zero and in others, Mario and Luigi over the RPG Paper Marios and Fire Emblem over Advance Wars.

 

[Cosmic77]

I don't know the reasoning behind the disappearance of Golden Sun, but I do think many of Isaac's supporters are hoping his inclusion will cause the franchise to get rebooted like KI.

Not necessarily a bad reason to support Isaac, but it does make you wonder what everyone's mindset is. I think Isaac has potential, but it'd really annoy me if I ever found out that a majority of his supporters were more concerned about Golden Sun returning than they were with getting Isaac in Ultimate. Smash isn't supposed to be safety net for fading franchises, nor should it be treated like one.

 

[Arcanir]

So... people don't seem to understand how evil the villains and antagonists actually are...

I'll just make a tier list.

Doesn't try to actively hurt people:

Needs a reason to hurt people:

Hurts people for fun:

A lot of people tend to put characters like Mewtwo, Ganondorf or Bowser as more evil then they actually are.

That's comes down to how relative it is though.

It is true that of the villains, Ridley, K. Rool, and DS are the worst of the bunch, but we also have to consider that those below them may not be that much better and they're perfectly capable of being cruel and ruthless characters in their own right.

Ganondorf is a good example of that, he does have a reason for his villainy (one that my started sympathetic and ended up selfish) and can show mercy at times, but it doesn't change the fact that the character has been defined as someone that is a ruthless tyrant. He's more then willing to do anything in his power to get what he wants, and even if it violates any sort of moral code like starving a race (OoT), employing an unhinged psychopath (TP), or even killing his servants so that he can be the only one with access to power (ALttP), he will do it. It may not be as bad as K. Rool and his actions, but it's still to a level that wouldn't be that far removed from him and is still far above someone like say, Wario (who's ultimately just greedy).

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I don't know the reasoning behind the disappearance of Golden Sun, but I do think many of Isaac's supporters are hoping his inclusion will cause the franchise to get rebooted like KI.

Not necessarily a bad reason to support Isaac, but it does make you wonder what everyone's mindset is. I think Isaac has potential, but it'd really annoy me if I ever found out that a majority of his supporters were more concerned about Golden Sun returning than they were with getting Isaac in Ultimate. Smash isn't supposed to be safety net for fading franchises, nor should it be treated like one.

I mean people do that for Banjo and every obscure character so...

 

[Knight Dude]

I just think Isaac's Earth powers and Hand Psynergy make for some good moveset potential. Sort of a physical powerhouse who's really strong on the ground. But unlike Little Mac, his air moves could be more physical Zoning based, using Psynergy hands for his Air Attacks, outside of maybe a standard Kick or Dive Kick. And that's just one potential way he could be handled. They could also let him use multiple elements like Robin, despite his natural affinity being for Earth.

Maybe he could be a trap setting character too, since some of the bamboo/bramble/spire attacks work in such a way.

 

[Cosmic77]

I mean people do that for Banjo and every obscure character so...

And that's one of the issues I have with Banjo in Smash too. Do people genuinely want the character, or are they only interested in using Smash as a springboard for a revival of their series?

Just feels like a petty way to force a developer to consider making a new game.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I don't know the reasoning behind the disappearance of Golden Sun, but I do think many of Isaac's supporters are hoping his inclusion will cause the franchise to get rebooted like KI.

Not necessarily a bad reason to support Isaac, but it does make you wonder what everyone's mindset is. I think Isaac has potential, but it'd really annoy me if I ever found out that a majority of his supporters were more concerned about Golden Sun returning than they were with getting Isaac in Ultimate. Smash isn't supposed to be safety net for fading franchises, nor should it be treated like one.

That's implying that the two mindsets can't be mutual.

I want Isaac in Smash because I want Isaac in Smash and if Isaac is in Smash then that means I'm more likely to get more Golden Sun which makes me want Isaac in Smash even more.

 

[Xgears]

I mean people do that for Banjo and every obscure character so...

If a Franchise needs advertisement from Smash to survive, it probably shouldn't be in Smash.

 

[Zinith]

I don't know the reasoning behind the disappearance of Golden Sun, but I do think many of Isaac's supporters are hoping his inclusion will cause the franchise to get rebooted like KI.

Not necessarily a bad reason to support Isaac, but it does make you wonder what everyone's mindset is. I think Isaac has potential, but it'd really annoy me if I ever found out that a majority of his supporters were more concerned about Golden Sun returning than they were with getting Isaac in Ultimate. Smash isn't supposed to be safety net for fading franchises, nor should it be treated like one.

I want Boshi because he needs a second chance at life AND he could be a cool twist on Yoshi's moveset in Smash as it is...

 

[Cutie Gwen]

If a Franchise needs advertisement from Smash to survive, it probably shouldn't be in Smash.

Rip Metroid then. Regardless it happens all the time in the industry. Something sells well, people like it, a sequel doesn't sell as well, hiatus. Square Enix ditched the classic battle system in RPGs because they decided it wouldn't work anymore. Then Bravely Default sold well, to which they were surprised. Then they ditched it again and tried again with Octopath, which FLEW off of the shelves and was understocked for weeks. Same with Crash Bandicoot, someone at Activision decided that the classic games which were beloved couldn't work anymore. So we got the newer stuff, and then Crash died until the N.Sane Trilogy

 

[Knight Dude]

I think people want Banjo not because it'll mean a new Banjo Kazooie game is suddenly possible, but that they see the character as a "Classic Nintendo Character" who isn't even owned by them anymore. People simply like them enough to want to play as them.

Nostalgia or not, Banjo's remembered by a fairly large group of people. Particularly by Nintendo fans. So seeing one of their favorites interact with more of their favorites isn't hard to understand.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

If a Franchise needs advertisement from Smash to survive, it probably shouldn't be in Smash

You could say that if you want but that would mean that we probably would've never gotten Mega Man. Or Pac-Man. Or Simon and Snake depending on who you ask.

I mean, do we HAVE to mention F-Zero, Mother, Metroid, or Kid Icarus?

Edit: forgot Metroid.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Banjo-Kazooie not only means getting the character but obviously a stage, an Assist, music, trophies, items, and anything else like that. Franchise representation isn’t only limited to characters but an array of content. That’s actually what attracts me to any particular series representation. To me, it’s not really all about the character but the content that goes along with it.

 

[CommanderZaktan]

Rip Steve's chances https://www.elecspo.com/games/super...-in-smash-bros-ultimate-minecraft-devs-answer

 

[Wyoming]

Not making any new games always struck me like the own decision of F-Zero developers, like it happened with Mother..

Not at all. F-Zero doesn't have a main developer. It's had many across its lifespan.

It's all on Nintendo. SEGA proved themselves to be very good at handling the series and should be brought back to do it once more.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Rip Steve's chances https://www.elecspo.com/games/super...-in-smash-bros-ultimate-minecraft-devs-answer

That gives banjo a better opening

So back to stage or assist trophy thing

 

[Danpal65]

So interesting tidbit folks.

This was brought up over on the Source Gaming Discord, but apparently the Character Trailer playlist on YouTube was updated the other day. Wanna know what is interesting about that? 10 days before the August 8th Direct was when the playlist was updated last. This suggests we may very well be getting a new character next week!

I'm thinking Robin-esque trailer that'd be quite appropriate for someone like Elma.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

So interesting tidbit folks.

This was brought up over on the Source Gaming Discord, but apparently the Character Trailer playlist on YouTube was updated the other day. Wanna know what is interesting about that? 10 days before the August 8th Direct was when the playlist was updated last. This suggests we may very well be getting a new character next week!

I'm thinking Robin-esque trailer that'd be quite appropriate for someone like Elma.

Was it updated for the Isabelle trailer?

Anyway that's exciting! We need something in October... personally I'd perfer a Smash Direct. I mean so would everyone probably lol.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

So interesting tidbit folks.

This was brought up over on the Source Gaming Discord, but apparently the Character Trailer playlist on YouTube was updated the other day. Wanna know what is interesting about that? 10 days before the August 8th Direct was when the playlist was updated last. This suggests we may very well be getting a new character next week!

I'm thinking Robin-esque trailer that'd be quite appropriate for someone like Elma.

I wonder if, because they're 3rd party guests, Echos like Ken would get their own trailers separate from Directs. Richter shared his reveal with Simon but it's hard to say who's really the echo there.

 

[blackghost]

That's true for both side of the community.
Remember when people tried to talk about someone else than Decidueyes before Vergeben's claim and got like "hum Only Decidueyes"
Or that Ridley was a Never Ever?
That K.Rool was OBVIOUSLY the Smash 4 DLC pick and no one else?
Remember when you tried to talk about a new FE rep and got swarm of hate?
Remember when people laughed at Daisy's chance in Smash and people quoted the infamous 1% from Source gaming?
Remember when People said that Cloud would definitely be cut for Ultimate? (I remember that Clearly because Jesus Christ I was one of the rare one believing that Everyone was returning and defended Cloud)

And look where we are? We have a second SE rep almost at hand. But now what happens?
Try to entertain the idea of Someone else than Geno being the SE rep and you'll see tons of people suddenly becoming professional Lawyer with 96 interview and 50 reason of why no one else can be and throw misinformation about everyone else. (Not to Target anyone specific but it happens sadly way too much recently)


The Smash community is just tons of people bandwaggoning something. Get proved wrong 90% of the time before jumping ship and go into another waggon and ignore everything by closing their eyes.


However now mention Sexuality, Goku, and Pyra and you'll get 10+ page in an hour.




I think the same honestly, I can see first one or two DLC being big Third Parties before going for fan favorite picks tbh



I will always be mad at how lazy that "medley" was compared to Megaman's

someone after my own heart. god bless you sir.
honestly, these dlc lists im seeing are utterly boring. in comparison to the shock and event of the new dlc in smash 4 most of the characters, i'm seeing fall very short. Also if you are making a dlc speculation prediction (not a wishlist) and you dont have at least 2 third parties in there you aren't making a good list.
the idea of echoes being sold off post launch (cheaper or not) after being developed post-launch by a smaller team is a bad move. general PR and business sense it doesn't make sense to make echoes (or assist trophies) post-launch. DLC will boil down to third-party major characters and relevant titles coming to switch.

 

[Deleted member]

So interesting tidbit folks.

This was brought up over on the Source Gaming Discord, but apparently the Character Trailer playlist on YouTube was updated the other day. Wanna know what is interesting about that? 10 days before the August 8th Direct was when the playlist was updated last. This suggests we may very well be getting a new character next week!

I'm thinking Robin-esque trailer that'd be quite appropriate for someone like Elma.

As much as I'd like to see that, happening 1 other time before is not much of a pattern.

 

[Danpal65]

Was it updated for the Isabelle trailer?

Anyway that's exciting! We need something in October... personally I'd perfer a Smash Direct. I mean so would everyone probably lol.

Unsure about that. But it's been recorded that it definitely happened before the Smash Direct.

Apparently it was updated before the September Direct too. The same timeframe too!

 

[Knight Dude]

I mean, ****. As unlikely as it is, I'm sure most people want whatever dumb characters they like to be in Smash because it's cool seeing them with other icons. That's the reason why I'd want a Tekken character in Smash(or another Mega Man character), particularly Jin Kazama. What's not to like about having some of your favorite character beating the crap of your other favorites? And Tekken isn't a series in need of "exposure" from a crossover. The series sells fine enough, even better than some other fighting game franchises. But it'd be cool if it other people got interested in the series.

I've heard people started getting into Mega Man, Castlevania or Metal Gear because of Smash or games like MVC and PXZ, and that's fine too.

I don't see the point in trying to **** on people thinking they have to have an ulterior motive behind liking whatever character they like. And even if they did, who's to say they lack any genuine interest of seeing that character for reasons outside of exposure?

 

[Isaac for Smash Pls]

If a Franchise needs advertisement from Smash to survive, it probably shouldn't be in Smash.

That’s silly. It’s a good thing Sakurai includes all kinds of characters from all kinds of franchises because it sounds like you’re saying that only franchises that are already thriving deserve to be in Smash. That’s a squandering of Smash’s marketing potential. Remember it was Marth and Roy’s inclusion in Melee that even convinced Nintendo to localize the franchise and bring it to the West. Nobody knew what the heck a Fire Emblem was before then.

I don’t understand what people are arguing against here. I can want Isaac in Smash for his own sake, and I can also hope that seeing him in Smash will make people curious about the franchise, which MAY convince Nintendo to give it another shot. It’s all intertwined. But to answer your original question, Golden Sun had so much more than just good graphics. It combined Pokemon like monster collecting, Zelda style environmental puzzles, traditional turn based combat, and a super interesting magic system that was useful both within combat and outside it. Xenoblade and Fire Emblem do basically none of those things, and saying Nintendo doesn’t “need” Golden Sun because those two exist is like saying they should stop making Donkey Kong and Yoshi games because Mario and Kirby exist. The gaming world is wide enough for all of the above.

It’s true that Dark Dawn didn’t sell well, but the original two titles meant a lot to a lot of people and it would be a vindication of our love for what we consider a very special series to see Isaac in Smash. But for the record he would make a fantastic and unique fighter. If the series isn’t for you that’s totally understandable but it definitely has a passionate fanbase, friend.

 

[Knight Dude]

So interesting tidbit folks.

This was brought up over on the Source Gaming Discord, but apparently the Character Trailer playlist on YouTube was updated the other day. Wanna know what is interesting about that? 10 days before the August 8th Direct was when the playlist was updated last. This suggests we may very well be getting a new character next week!

I'm thinking Robin-esque trailer that'd be quite appropriate for someone like Elma.

That'd be pretty neat, but watch it turn out to nothing major. Or maybe Incineroar or Ken, and while I'd be happy with that, I think that would bum people out if it wasn't someone outside of the well known leaks.

 

[Hydrualic Hydra]

So interesting tidbit folks.

This was brought up over on the Source Gaming Discord, but apparently the Character Trailer playlist on YouTube was updated the other day. Wanna know what is interesting about that? 10 days before the August 8th Direct was when the playlist was updated last. This suggests we may very well be getting a new character next week!

I'm thinking Robin-esque trailer that'd be quite appropriate for someone like Elma.

Every time I wanna take a break from this place for a few days, something like this happens. Back on to the 'updated playlist' railcar of the hype train, I suppose.

 

[blackghost]

If a Franchise needs advertisement from Smash to survive, it probably shouldn't be in Smash.

lol wow this is hilarious and completely ridiculous

 

[Nekoo]

Inb4 the YouTube playlist get updated for Chrom/Dark Samus "trailer"

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I just had a theory on why Vergeben would know about Ken being an echo since he didn't know any other echoes. It had to do with having seen the trailers. But then I realized he didn't know Richter XD.

Yea Vergeben and the echoes is probably one of the biggest mysteries...

 

[Wyoming]

A trailer on the website?

The scene starts us off with Ken Masters from Street Fighter lying down on the floor, beaten by a new challenger in the tournament. Sakura comes to his aid, claiming he's too powerful. "Sakura CHARGES IN?!" is shown as a tagline. The mysterious figure reveals itself among the shadows, face to face with the valiant fighter.

It's....It's....Chrom!

His hair glows in the night, revealing his new model where he did do his hair after getting out of bed. Sakura charges at him, but Chrom's new do is so strong he's able to dodge and swipe the female student with his sword, nearly cutting her ear off.

She charges, but gets deflected by the Falchion. As he is about to land the finishing blow with Great Aether, a new challenger appears. The Chinese martial artist, Chun Li, lands into battle! She reassures Sakura, as a new medley of her theme is played in a montage of gameplay. Sakura insists it is not the time to rest, and aids her friend and fellow warrior in the Smash Bros.

At the end, among the rumble, Ken can barely look up as he claims, quite ashamed, "Perhaps....I'll get my chance...another day" before resting once more.

But it was a twist! Ken appears as a boss in Spirits for some reason! Thus he gets his chance today!

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I just had a theory on why Vergeben would know about Ken being an echo since he didn't know any other echoes. It had to do with having seen the trailers. But then I realized he didn't know Richter XD.

Yea Vergeben and the echoes is probably one of the biggest mysteries...

Vergeben also didn't know about K. Rool. I don't think it really matters either way.

 

[Cosmic77]

If we do end up getting a new character next week (which could very well happen, since that's roughly a month from the intended date of the September Direct), then that pretty much buries the box theory. HIGHLY doubt Ken would be getting his own reveal separate from the final newcomer and Spirits mode.

The only way that's not the case is if this ends up being a second and final Smash Direct, and I honestly can't see them airing it this soon.

 

[Caiahar]

Ok I’m out of the loop. Why does everyone suddenly want Incineroar in/think he’s going to get in. While there may be a new Pokémon fighter, I’ve not seen anything that suggests it’s Incineroar whatsoever, unless it’s a leak I missed?