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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


Results are only viewable after voting.
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Scoliosis Jones

Kept you waiting, huh?
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I sincerely want the next Direct to just be announced already, because I'm ****ing ready not so much for salt, but for the "endgame" for speculation pre-release. Speculating is fun and all, but I'm ready to get hyped for the hype cycle to hit max.

I'm definitely in the belief that Incineroar and Ken are all that we have left until release, and to me that's ok. I don't think there's any doubt that DLC has the potential to surpass what we got last time, and could replicate the idea of "seasons" of DLC like other fighting game franchises.

For example, I'd love to see a Season 1 Package of something like this:
Characters:
Rex w/ Pyra & Mythra
Spring Man w/ Ribbon Girl Echo (for example, not necessarily fully on board with her being an echo)
Sora w/ Roxas Echo

Stages:
Argentum Trade Guild
ARMS Arena
The World That Never Was/ Destiny Islands/ Hollow Bastion

Assist Trophies:
Morag w/ Brighid, or Nia with Dromarch
Helix

Bosses:
Some sort of monster from XC2, can't really think of a good specific boss atm
Max Brass or Master Mummy (thought MM would be fun as a boss)

I'd pay for that in an instant tbh. I won't even get into music because I think the selection would be amazing and don't even need to mention it.
 

RandomAce

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 29, 2017
Messages
2,986
IIRC the source code for VIII is a total mess, the PC port had to be reverse engineered to even work. It's why it's never been ported anywhere outside of that case.
I'm guessing it has to do with FFVII, FFIX, and FFX/X-2 all having phone ports, while FF8 has not.
Some people in the social zone posted a link saying how they lost lots of the FF8 data/content to port the game to other devices or something like that
C3749131-7E28-4816-9D7A-DD60D06B9A7D.gif

All of these are different answers.

So the FF8 code was difficult to port over due to it’s lackluster code, and was only ported to PC. Because of this, they decided to skip over FFVIII since they don’t have any ports available unlike FFVII, FFIX, and FFX/X-2.

I think I’m getting it.
 
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Shroob

Sup?
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Location
Washington
I sincerely want the next Direct to just be announced already, because I'm ****ing ready not so much for salt, but for the "endgame" for speculation pre-release. Speculating is fun and all, but I'm ready to get hyped for the hype cycle to hit max.

I'm definitely in the belief that Incineroar and Ken are all that we have left until release, and to me that's ok. I don't think there's any doubt that DLC has the potential to surpass what we got last time, and could replicate the idea of "seasons" of DLC like other fighting game franchises.

For example, I'd love to see a Season 1 Package of something like this:
Characters:
Rex w/ Pyra & Mythra
Spring Man w/ Ribbon Girl Echo (for example, not necessarily fully on board with her being an echo)
Sora w/ Roxas Echo

Stages:
Argentum Trade Guild
ARMS Arena
The World That Never Was/ Destiny Islands/ Hollow Bastion

Assist Trophies:
Morag w/ Brighid, or Nia with Dromarch
Helix

Bosses:
Some sort of monster from XC2, can't really think of a good specific boss atm
Max Brass or Master Mummy (thought MM would be fun as a boss)

I'd pay for that in an instant tbh. I won't even get into music because I think the selection would be amazing and don't even need to mention it.
Pretty much.

My interest in speculation died in the Theory Triad War of September 2018, now I just want to know who's in and get ready to stay up all night playing the game.
 

Luigifan18

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I don't think the term semi-clone means anything. You list Dr. Mario who is basically just slightly further off from being a Mario echo, and then you list Lucas who has no meaningful similarity to any other member of the roster. Let's stop using this made up term to refer to nothing.
Lucas has essentially the same moves as Ness (though they do have some very different attacks, like Ness using his yo-yo for his Up and Down smashes while Lucas uses bursts of raw PSI), but the attacks that Ness and Lucas do share have wildly different functions (Lucas' Forward smash is faster but weaker than Ness'; Ness' PK Fire erupts into a multi-hitting pillar of flame while Lucas' simply explodes for a single powerful hit; et cetera). So they have very similar movesets, but the traits of each move are significantly different.
 

LoboRundas

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When Jon first said that we’d get FFVII, FFIX, and FFX-X2 I wondered why was VIII skipped.

Even then, why is VIII not getting brought over to the Switch?
I think it was that the original code was lost, so they reverse engineered the game to port it to PC and it's terrible. Guessing they don't want to port it in those conditions.
 

Rie Sonomura

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I played the PC port on Steam...it wasn’t that bad...

Granted the sound effects and music are vastly different and control schemes are a bit odd but that’s nothing mods can’t fix
 
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JustCallMeJon

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I don't think the term semi-clone means anything. You list Dr. Mario who is basically just slightly further off from being a Mario echo, and then you list Lucas who has no meaningful similarity to any other member of the roster. Let's stop using this made up term to refer to nothing.
I think the term unique, echoes, and semi-clones were still important to identify the character.

Echoes are characters will same moveset, frame data, body structure, etc but with small differences to stand out just a little bit. Example: Lucina as to Marth, Richter as to Simon, Dark Pit as to Pit.

Lucina has a universal sword instead of Marth's tippered sword, in which stands out between them just a bit.

Semi-Clones are characters with many of the movesets being similar to the predecessor but with some noticable and big differences to stray away from the unique by just a tad amount.

Example is Toon Link and Young Link as to Link, their moveset were near identical but they are overall smaller, floatier, and faster with some added unique moves to stand out to Link. Making it not to similar but not to unique.

Same with Dr. Mario: Dr. Mario is very similar to Mario in terms of body structure and moveset wise. However, while Mario is fast and combo-heavy, Dr. Mario is slow and damage-racking. Combine with some unique moves such as a spike dair, tornado, and a single hit Up b, then we got a Semi-clone!

Unique characters are characters that have movesets that were completely or near completely unique. It has very noticable differences in moveset wise and structure wise. Unique characters may have few similarities to the predecessor but their similar moves have unique properties that stands out better.

Example: Marth as with Ike, Luigi as to Mario, Zero Suit Samus as with Samus etc.

Overall, it is important to understand the difference between unique, semi, and echoes. Especially with Ultimate where even the most similar characters are considered unique by Ultimate.

Sure the semi-clone term is not official but it has purposes.
 
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Amazing Ampharos

Balanced Brawl Designer
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Lucas has essentially the same moves as Ness (though they do have some very different attacks, like Ness using his yo-yo for his Up and Down smashes while Lucas uses bursts of raw PSI), but the attacks that Ness and Lucas do share have wildly different functions (Lucas' Forward smash is faster but weaker than Ness'; Ness' PK Fire erupts into a multi-hitting pillar of flame while Lucas' simply explodes for a single powerful hit; et cetera). So they have very similar movesets, but the traits of each move are significantly different.
No he doesn't? All five of his aerials, his jab, his dash attack, and all three of his tilts have completely different animations and only dtilt really has the same function. In terms of how Smash realistically plays those are the most important moves on characters, and they're completely different and take their playstyles in completely different directions (Lucas has a lot of grounded footsies stuff, Ness is focused on a pretty devastating aerial assault). Dsmash and usmash are completely different. Fsmash is both them swinging wooden objects but functionally fairly different and aesthetically not even the same objects. Lucas has a zair and a tether grab; Ness has an ordinary grab which is also paired with the best bthrow in the game and the single primary defining move for what Ness is. That's a little fact that also changes about a million things between them in terms of how they realistically play. Only the specials are really kinda similar mostly on a superficial aesthetic level, but the functions are again just very, very different as Pk Fire is mostly a set-up move on Ness and is a poke on Lucas, Pk Thunder is super different both offensively and recovery wise on both, and the other two specials realistically aren't useful moves so who cares about them? I think the total connection between them exists... in the same way that like Mewtwo and Lucario are connected. They're from the same series and have some superficial similarities and fit into kinda the same archetype of general character in some ways. That's seriously about it... I think in terms of closeness they're distinctly further apart than Mario and Luigi, and no one seems to list Luigi here. Of course closeness is a kinda silly way to measure characters without realistically connected playstyles in games with huge rosters anyway. They're just completely different characters.
 

Idon

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I don't think the term semi-clone means anything. You list Dr. Mario who is basically just slightly further off from being a Mario echo, and then you list Lucas who has no meaningful similarity to any other member of the roster. Let's stop using this made up term to refer to nothing.
That's the deal with fan-made terms.

Plus, it's not like there's a black/white division between clone and non-clone. It's a sliding scale.
 

CrusherMania1592

Deaf Smasher
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I sincerely want the next Direct to just be announced already, because I'm ****ing ready not so much for salt, but for the "endgame" for speculation pre-release. Speculating is fun and all, but I'm ready to get hyped for the hype cycle to hit max.

I'm definitely in the belief that Incineroar and Ken are all that we have left until release, and to me that's ok. I don't think there's any doubt that DLC has the potential to surpass what we got last time, and could replicate the idea of "seasons" of DLC like other fighting game franchises.

For example, I'd love to see a Season 1 Package of something like this:
Characters:
Rex w/ Pyra & Mythra
Spring Man w/ Ribbon Girl Echo (for example, not necessarily fully on board with her being an echo)
Sora w/ Roxas Echo

Stages:
Argentum Trade Guild
ARMS Arena
The World That Never Was/ Destiny Islands/ Hollow Bastion

Assist Trophies:
Morag w/ Brighid, or Nia with Dromarch
Helix

Bosses:
Some sort of monster from XC2, can't really think of a good specific boss atm
Max Brass or Master Mummy (thought MM would be fun as a boss)

I'd pay for that in an instant tbh. I won't even get into music because I think the selection would be amazing and don't even need to mention it.
Hmm


Day 1:

Geno


First DLC pack:

Rex and Pyra
Spring Man
Skull Kid
Impa

2nd DLC pack:

Isaac
Dixie Kong
Lip
Octolings


3rd DLC pack:
Shadow
Banjo
Crash
Rayman


something like this could work
 

Luigifan18

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
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Switch FC
SW-5577-0969-0868
No he doesn't? All five of his aerials, his jab, his dash attack, and all three of his tilts have completely different animations and only dtilt really has the same function. In terms of how Smash realistically plays those are the most important moves on characters, and they're completely different and take their playstyles in completely different directions (Lucas has a lot of grounded footsies stuff, Ness is focused on a pretty devastating aerial assault). Dsmash and usmash are completely different. Fsmash is both them swinging wooden objects but functionally fairly different and aesthetically not even the same objects. Lucas has a zair and a tether grab; Ness has an ordinary grab which is also paired with the best bthrow in the game and the single primary defining move for what Ness is. That's a little fact that also changes about a million things between them in terms of how they realistically play. Only the specials are really kinda similar mostly on a superficial aesthetic level, but the functions are again just very, very different as Pk Fire is mostly a set-up move on Ness and is a poke on Lucas, Pk Thunder is super different both offensively and recovery wise on both, and the other two specials realistically aren't useful moves so who cares about them? I think the total connection between them exists... in the same way that like Mewtwo and Lucario are connected. They're from the same series and have some superficial similarities and fit into kinda the same archetype of general character in some ways. That's seriously about it... I think in terms of closeness they're distinctly further apart than Mario and Luigi, and no one seems to list Luigi here. Of course closeness is a kinda silly way to measure characters without realistically connected playstyles in games with huge rosters anyway. They're just completely different characters.
That's what I just said. They share a lot of those moves, but those shared moves have very different functions.
 

GunBlaze

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GBLZ#778
So the FF8 code was difficult to port over due to it’s lackluster code, and was only ported to PC. Because of this, they decided to skip over FFVIII since they don’t have any ports available unlike FFVII, FFIX, and FFX/X-2.

I think I’m getting it.
Wasn't there also copyright issues with the opening? Eyes on Me, wasn't it?
 

Blargg888

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Clones sorta exist on a spectrum. You can’t really clump them under two terms in a way that feels satisfying. You’d need more like 6-7 terms in order to get em all down, and even then, it would still come under fire.
 

drag0nscythe

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Messages
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I feel so sorry that you're doing your best to promote something you care about and my first thought is "The **** is this **** I sure as **** don't know this". This sounds like it's supposed to be snark but it isn't
I would suggest trying out the n64 games. They are great.

There is also a youtube guy called jimmy hapa import gaming. He has quite a few videos on goemon. Give them a watch.

Once you see it, you will believe.
 

Luigifan18

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I would suggest trying out the n64 games. They are great.

There is also a youtube guy called jimmy hapa import gaming. He has quite a few videos on goemon. Give them a watch.

Once you see it, you will believe.
I have very fond memories of playing Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon on the N64.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Late, but...
I'd like to publicly apologize to all the Incineroar fans for trashtalking Incineroar. After beating Pokemon Sun on my 3ds with a fully evolved Incineroar, i kinda want him in Smash now.
I also want to apologize for my troll-ish behavior, and for being a sorry excuse of a person.
I deserve to be one of the most hated people on this forum.
Apology accepted.
 

War Anvil

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Clones sorta exist on a spectrum. You can’t really clump them under two terms in a way that feels satisfying. You’d need more like 6-7 terms in order to get em all down, and even then, it would still come under fire.
Yeah. The only thing under which you'd be able to lump clones together is that YOU'LLNOTICETHATTHEMOVESETOFEACHFIGHTERISTHESAME.

I would suggest trying out the n64 games. They are great.

There is also a youtube guy called jimmy hapa import gaming. He has quite a few videos on goemon. Give them a watch.

Once you see it, you will believe.
Also, Luigifan18 Luigifan18 , please look up Goemon on HardcoreGaming101. That place'll give you a really in-depth history on the franchise!
 

Smashoperatingbuddy123

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Im 90% sure the rest will be this

Unique

Incineroar/pokemon rep (I heard the incineroar is only one source however Vergeben doubled down)
Steve or banjo (banjo is 90% chance for dlc if not base in my opinion)
Geno (I just can’t see the square rep not being geno and Sakurai wants him in)
Skull kid or Isaac (neither might not be base so dlc very likely but skull kid is missing in action so far)

Echos
Ken (the leak picture pretty much locked him at this point but could be Palutena leak all over again.)
Shadow the hedgehog
Black knight (dlc if not base)

Dlc
The rest of the gens filled in for pokemon (this includes the upcoming 8)
Banjo if not base
Sylux to promote Metroid prime 4 if he really is the main villain (heck maybe the other hunters from prime hunters for echos or alts like bowser jr got)
Heihachi
Isaac if not base
Skull kid if not base
Spring man
 
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Idon

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Today's blog post is Sheik. :ultsheik:
Y'know I have to wonder.
How much stuff does she actually take from Ocarina of Time and isn't entirely Smash original?

I'm trying to rack my mind for references Sheik and the Sheikah clan in general do, but all I can think of is her using that deku nut to teleport elsewhere. Everything else seems to be "stuff ninjas do."
 

P.Kat

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Idk, isnt it tradition for Smash to have at least one heart breaking character moment.

Mewtwo in brawl.
Ridley in smash 4.
Geno smash ultimate?
I thought Lyn being ATed was heartbreaking enough:(
Yeah, I'm really hoping Min Min gets in somehow as like a Semi Clone or something
I'd love for Min-Min to get in.
Anyway, to abruptly change the topic, let's talk music!

We all have our character wants, but let's talk about the best tracks and composers your personal most wanteds would bring to Smash.

As a fan of Megaten, I think everyone here is aware of Shoji Meguro and his work in Persona, but way back when, his work was far more experimental.
Alright, a list of song that my most wanted would bring to Smash. It's easier to just group them... give it a listen when you have the time.
 
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N3ON

Gone Exploring
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Today's Fighter
#16: Sheik
Now Sheik joins the battle wearing the Sheikah costume from The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild. Keep the pressure on your opponent by using his speedy dash to quickly close in on (or get away from) your opponent!
lmao, I think the ship has already sailed on spoiling Sheik's identity, Smash. In fact you've been pretty much captain of that ship for the last 17 years...

;P
 

drag0nscythe

Smash Master
Joined
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I have very fond memories of playing Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon on the N64.
As do i. Love that game the most from the n64 library. Just struck a nerve. The sequel is just as fun, butvi prefer mystical ninja.

Yeah. The only thing under which you'd be able to lump clones together is that YOU'LLNOTICETHATTHEMOVESETOFEACHFIGHTERISTHESAME.


Also, Luigifan18 Luigifan18 , please look up Goemon on 11+HardcoreGaming101. That place'll give you a really in-depth history on the franchise!
I love going to that site and seeing what else i need to buy. Shame it is broken last time i checked.

Yay to goemon supporters. I plan To sing his praises until there is no point.

He is perfect for smash. And needs a comeback.
 

Rie Sonomura

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I thought Lyn being ATed was heartbreaking enough:(

I'd love for Min-Min to get in.

Alright, a list of song that my most wanted would bring to Smash. It's easier to just group them... give it a listen when you have the time.
Don’t forget the Noctilum and Sylvalum themes for X

ESPECIALLY Sylvalum’s night variant :love:
 

Michael the Spikester

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Im 90% sure the rest will be this

Unique

Incineroar/pokemon rep (I heard the incineroar is only one source however Vergeben doubled down)
Steve or banjo (banjo is 90% chance for dlc if not base in my opinion)
Geno (I just can’t see the square rep not being geno and Sakurai wants him in)
Skull kid or Isaac (neither might not be base so dlc very likely but skull kid is missing in action so far)

Echos
Ken (the leak picture pretty much locked him at this point but could be Palutena leak all over again.)
Shadow the hedgehog
Black knight (dlc if not base)

Dlc
The rest of the gens filled in for pokemon (this includes the upcoming 8)
Banjo if not base
Sylux to promote Metroid prime 4 if he really is the main villain (heck maybe the other hunters from prime hunters for echos or alts like bowser jr got)
Heihachi
Isaac if not base
Skull kid if not base
Spring man
What do you think of my prediction?

Unique:
69: Incineroar
70: Banjo or Steve
71: Elma
72: Geno

Echos:
36e: Dixie Kong
38e: Shadow
54e: Medusa
60e: Ken

Rounds out to 80 fighters (Pokemon Trainer and Miis are counted as one). Seems like a good balance honestly.
 

CyberHyperPhoenix

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I don't think the term semi-clone means anything. You list Dr. Mario who is basically just slightly further off from being a Mario echo, and then you list Lucas who has no meaningful similarity to any other member of the roster. Let's stop using this made up term to refer to nothing.
Okay, but Little Mac is totally a semi clone of Captain Falcon because Mac goes into Falcon's idle pose for 1 frame after getting off the top of a ladder.
 

War Anvil

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SSBU Site said:
Keep the pressure on your opponent by using his speedy dash to quickly close in on (or get away from) your opponent!

his speedy dash

his speedy dash
Sure, Sheik was always mistaken for male, but O M E G A L U L. How can the Smash crew get a description wrong for one of their own characters?!
 

TMNTSSB4

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View attachment 167688
All of these are different answers.

So the FF8 code was difficult to port over due to it’s lackluster code, and was only ported to PC. Because of this, they decided to skip over FFVIII since they don’t have any ports available unlike FFVII, FFIX, and FFX/X-2.

I think I’m getting it.
I did not mean to make the great Zangief dizzy...rip to him
lmao, I think the ship has already sailed on spoiling Sheik's identity, Smash. In fact you've been pretty much captain of that ship for the last 17 years...

;P
Let them believe what they want us to believe...or else they’ll add more Zelda characters to not be playable
 

NonSpecificGuy

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Pretty sure the Xenoblade X composer takes some serious inspiration from The Red Hot Chili Peppers. And the Red Hot Chili Peppers is my ****ing band so of course I love X's soundtrack.
 

Potato_

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lmao, I think the ship has already sailed on spoiling Sheik's identity, Smash. In fact you've been pretty much captain of that ship for the last 17 years...

;P
You misunderstood, blog guys are just trying to reopen the "Is Sheik a boy or a girl" debate allll over again.

Sakurai and his team would NEVER spoil a game for the player. NEVER.
 
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KirbyWorshipper2465

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Y'know I have to wonder.
How much stuff does she actually take from Ocarina of Time and isn't entirely Smash original?

I'm trying to rack my mind for references Sheik and the Sheikah clan in general do, but all I can think of is her using that deku nut to teleport elsewhere. Everything else seems to be "stuff ninjas do."
You got it about right. Sakurai's options for having ninjas are really limited, aren't they? :ultgreninja: Let's hope he has nostalgia for Ninja Gaiden...

You misunderstood, blog guys are just trying to reopen the "Is Sheik a boy or a girl" debate allll over again.

Sakurai and his team would NEVER spoil a game for the player. NEVER.
In fairness, we actually have two completely different Zeldas this time.
 
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Rie Sonomura

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You misunderstood, blog guys are just trying to reopen the "Is Sheik a boy or a girl" debate allll over again.

Sakurai and his team would NEVER spoil a game for the player. NEVER.
Think they’ll fix it? Or for the easy way out use gender-neutral pronouns like they/their for Sheik?

My money’s on a revision
 

Questionmark222

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Joined
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Messages
392
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Wow, letting ourselves succumb to madness eh?
EVENT MATCH IDEAS!

The title for one I have is "Not my Car!"

You play as Captain Falcon and you have to fight Ryu and Ken (if he's in) on Big Blue before the stage makes a full lap.

Share your ideas and help things get on track (kind of)
If we aren't getting this, I will start questioning the very existence of mankind:
Metroidvania:
Character: :ultsimon:
Assist: :ultrichter:
Enemies: :ultsamus::ultridley::ultdarksamus:
Stage: Dracula's Castle
In-game goal: "It seems as though the Belmonts have just been cursed with eliminating new types of oddly familiar monsters..."

I sincerely want the next Direct to just be announced already, because I'm ****ing ready not so much for salt, but for the "endgame" for speculation pre-release. Speculating is fun and all, but I'm ready to get hyped for the hype cycle to hit max.
This. You've got my approval.
 
Last edited:

Will

apustaja
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
Messages
33,922
Location
hell
Switch FC
SW-7573-2962-2407
If we aren't getting this, I will start questioning the very existence of mankind:
Metroidvania:
Character: :ultsimon:
Assist: :ultrichter:
Enemies: :ultsamus::ultridley:
Stage: Dracula's Castle
In-game goal: "It seems as though the Belmonts have just been cursed with eliminating new types of oddly familiar monsters..."


This. You've got my approval.
I know this dude didn't just call Samus a monster.
 
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