Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Will]

Well it's October at last.

And the "new" tag is still on the website so we may not get a direct this month!

That was your first spook, for free.

That's not even a spook that's just superstition

 

[Cosmic77]

i have it, no worries
View attachment 167612
and a bonus, that i found long ago
View attachment 167613

It's funny how we've gotten to a point where we can depict Ridley laughing at other characters for not making it in Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

>Yugioh
>Multitude of games across many consoles, including Nintendo consoles
>Franchise owned by Konami
>Metal Gear and Castlevania are owned by Konami
>The TCG is its origin and main focus
>Pokemon has a TCG
>Yugioh has an anime where obvious things are repeatedly explained
>Pokemon has an anime where obvious things are repeatedly explained
It all comes together...

For real though, this talk about a "Smash vs Jump" crossover game has got me thinking how it could work. I picture it would be a fusion between Smash and Jump Ultimate Stars in terms of gameplay. Any of you guys have any ideas?

Actually that would be cool but only if they actually kept the platform fighter gameplay because I know they would try to turn it into J-Stars somehow if it wasn't.

 

[MainJPW]

Dude. People ******* a fit over Link vs. Cloud and Bowser vs. Ganondorf.
Yet no one cares that all of them can be beaten by the likes of Pichu, Villager, and Wii Fit Trainer.

Why?
Because it's a ****ing game.
And in games, characters have to be able to LOSE.

Just like in the OTHER crossovers Goku has been in with characters that he could easily beat yet they can beat him in-game.

Someone brought up Battle Stadium D.O.N.
None of the Naruto or One Piece characters come even CLOSE to the Dragon Ball Z characters in terms of power on that roster.
Did anyone complain?
No.

So why the hell would they complain that Goku can -gasp- lose in Smash as a playable fighter?
Seriously, why are you even trying to make this asinine point?

EDIT: Hell, one of the suggestions was a "Nintendo vs. Shonen Jump" game.
Goku would have to be able to be beaten by everyone else on the roster from both sides, so how is that any different?


And the reason Superman vs. Goku got so much hate that is irrelevant to Smash?
Because Superman vs. Goku was a long-time internet debate on who would beat the other in a real fight using canon strengths.
Smash is just a game of King of the Hill for the fun of it that doesn't care about who's stronger in canon.

This. Always found this notion that nerfing Goku would be “weird and out of place” to be quite dumb.

And we’re just going to ignore characters like:

ultike:(For example)

-being nerfed to compete with fitness instructors, a dog and office secretaries?

When it comes to Smash it’s nerf or nothing.

 

[The_Naraotor]

I think people tend to overestimate Goku, sure in raw power he is something but he is far from being unbeatable and OP.

You want an OP Cheated character see my profil pic with Dark Schneider now you have almighty being that can rofl stomp all DBVerse without breaking mush of a sweat.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Just another random theory slighty related to the blog theory.
So far, they made blog posts for 1 or 2 new stages each month (this includes new battlefield/final destination), along with some posts about returning stages.
The point is that they ran out of new stages to show.
If the 108 stages thing is true, there are still 5 stages to show, and if they make a post about 2 new stages each month from now, 2 stages in october, 2 in november, 1 in december during the last week, it would fit perfectly.
Does this mean that they will announce a direct soon? Maybe the second or third week of october?
I know that Sakurai said to not expect too many newcomer announcements soon, but it would make a lot of sense to get a direct this month.
It can even be the final Smash direct, who knows.

They have a lot of material yet to show on the blog, so I think the blog will continue being updated even after the game launches (because of this, I doubt they will show EVERYTHING in the blog before announcing the next Smash Direct).

If this is true, it's possible that they will keep one last character (in total secret, they'll say that the roster is final) to be announced during a regular direct in late november, or they will just reveal all the characters in october and that's it... or maybe in november they will announce DLCs....

I don't expect 5 characters during the next Smash Direct, there will be less, for sure.
Also I think it's possible that from now they will show 2 characters at week instead of 3, with some exceptions.

There is also the possibility that they will just stop showing new stages, but I think it would be a bad choice to promote the game, especially if you actually still have 5 stages to show.

 

[Deleted member]

Something something Saitama could beat the entire cast of Dragon Ball with no effort something.
Also, to keep this Smash-related, the same applies to the Smash cast, except Isabelle. Saitama would never hurt Isabelle.

 

[MainJPW]

I think people tend to overestimate Goku, sure in raw power he is something but he is far from being unbeatable and OP.

You want an OP Cheated character see my profil pic with Dark Schneider now you have almighty being that can rofl stomp all DBVerse without breaking mush of a sweat.

God Cloth Seiya from Saint Seiya would do the same.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Real talk though, Goku being the most talked about non-video game character is a very Western thing considering One Piece is the biggest manga in Japan. Granted it's probably due to the length of it that it has more sales, but if Nintendo went down that rabbit hole with Smash I wouldn't be surprised to see Luffy happen before Goku. (And that's when I'd check out of Smash anyway)

Plus it was the Jump series that had functionality with the Smash amiibo.

Wii Fit Nami for Smash or riot.

 

[The_Naraotor]

God Cloth Seiya from Saint Seiya would do the same.

As well as Usagi Tsukino in her Neo-Queen Serenity power form ^_^

 

[Zinith]

Pfft, Yoshi can tank a lot of **** in Yoshi's Island. Saitama would take more than one punch to take him out...

Spoiler

Maybe 3

 

[The_Naraotor]

Saitama is just Chuck Norris in the anime/manga realm, if you want to look for the videogames realm check Captain Falcon.

 

[AzureFlame4]

Plus it was the Jump series that had functionality with the Smash amiibo.

Wii Fit Nami for Smash or riot.

Wow, all of those costumes make way too much sense. Only questionable one for me is Robin as Samus and not Robin. WTF people, get it together.

 

[praline]

Reminder that I'll support this till I die:

Yugi would be cool admittedly. They should just make a legit shonen smash type game.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Reminder that I'll support this till I die:

Konami isn't the only one that owns Yu-Gi-Oh. It's split between them, Shueshei, and I'm trying to remember that other one, but Takashi or something like that.

So it's still a licensing nightmare, along the same lines as Goku. Key difference between the two is Goku is heavily wanted for Smash. Yami(or Yugi) would still be a fun addition, that said.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Konami isn't the only one that owns Yu-Gi-Oh. It's split between them, Shueshei, and I'm trying to remember that other one, but Takashi or something like that.

Kazuki Takahashi, the mangaka.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I do have to wonder, if Sakurai chose an ARMS fighter to become playable, would he go with Springman (maybe with a Ribbon Girl echo fighter) as most assume? Yes, he's the Ken or Mario of ARMS, but he's also not especially interesting and the unique playstyle they could bring to Smash could pretty much be brought by any of the more memorable ARMS fighters. There's no precedent for a new series being represented by a character other than the one that's marketed as the main character, but does that mean Sakurai would turn down the likes of Helix, Master Mummy, Dr. Coyle, or even fan favorites like Twintelle or Min Min in favor of Springman? If the tradition of playable main characters representing their series were to ever be broken, I think ARMS would be the series it would happen with. As for how likely that is to happen, I'm honestly not sure, but it's something interesting to ponder.

The problem with the whole "not interesting" argument is how subjective it is, especially since quiet a number of characters that are already playable in Smash are considered "bland" and "unmemorable" by some. And before anyone brings up Chrom being rejected for Smash 4, keep in mind the difference between him and Spring Man was that Chrom was fundamentally similar to characters that were already playable whereas there truly isn't anyone comparable to Spring Man. The closest comparison I can make to Spring Man would be Robin as they are both Vanilla Protagonists from games with quirkier and more "interesting" characters that nevertheless represents the essense of what their franchise is about.

Really hoping Goku gets in as he is a unique character

Oh, yes. Goku would be epic.

I believe in an interview he referred to wanting Goku in Smash is tantamount to wanting Spongebob Squarepants.

They're both equally ridiculous. Goku isn't any fundamentally different than Shrek in that regard.

Only video game characters can be in Smash.

The Smash Ballot itself more or less confirms this is an actual rule. Everything else you mentioned was a fan assumption that was broken.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Plus it was the Jump series that had functionality with the Smash amiibo.

Wii Fit Nami for Smash or riot.

Gosh I remember seeing that. It’s kinda strange tbh.

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

God you know we’re starving for info when we’re arguing about Goku of all people.

I’m just gonna spew my unpopular opinion that Saber should be the link between anime and Smash. Why? Because unlike Goku she actually debuted in a video game (a visual novel to be precise). Now of course said game was originally a hentai which you know Nintendo would want to distance themselves from, but I’d still rate her chances ever so slightly higher than Goku’s (plus it’s Fate’s 15th anniversary in January, maybe Type-Moon will want extra promotion? Idk).

That’s just my two cents, but you will NEVER see Goku in Smash as long as Sakurai is in charge, no matter what.

 

[T3Z3R1]

Plus it was the Jump series that had functionality with the Smash amiibo.

Wii Fit Nami for Smash or riot.

That moment when Brook looks fabulous right there in Marth's clothes.

 

[Squirtle/Mario guy]

Konami isn't the only one that owns Yu-Gi-Oh. It's split between them, Shueshei, and I'm trying to remember that other one, but Takashi or something like that.

So it's still a licensing nightmare, along the same lines as Goku. Key difference between the two is Goku is heavily wanted for Smash. Yami(or Yugi) would still be a fun addition, that said.

I made some movesets for some characters can i post it in a blog or here ? also i don't think Goku would make it in, if i'm right Lucario's final smash in Ultimate is Aura storm with Mega Lucario and that resembles kamaka whatever it is and some of Lucario's moveset resembles Goku's moves
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJrVT5ISihU

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The Smash Ballot itself more or less confirms this is an actual rule. Everything else you mentioned was a fan assumption that was broken.

Not really. It confirms that he wants suggestions for game characters. It implies that he isn't interested in adding non-game characters. They're two different things. You have to remember that he has added fan requested characters regardless of the ballot. If he's going to add a non-game character, he already knows Goku is severely popular(and besides that, is a huge icon, including in gaming) and doesn't need a ballot to do so. In fact, he already knows who is majorly popular among non-game characters. The ballot doesn't need to be used to figure that out. It's a waste of a vote because he already knows. Besides, the ballot wasn't even Sakurai's idea, it was Iwata's. We don't even know how much Sakurai literally wrote about it and how much Iwata influenced the exact rules/design of it. Meaning it cannot be properly used to confirm Sakurai's words on things due to a lack of evidence of how it reflects his opinion.

I made some movesets for some characters can i post it in a blog or here ? also i don't think Goku would make it in, if i'm right Lucario's final smash in Ultimate is Aura storm with Mega Lucario and that resembles kamaka whatever it is and some of Lucario's moveset resembles Goku's moves
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJrVT5ISihU

Lucario isn't like Goku, so that's irrelevant.

There is a Make Your Move thread, I guess? If a thread exists for the character, you can certainly post your moveset there too.

 

[Pakky]

Plus it was the Jump series that had functionality with the Smash amiibo.

Wii Fit Nami for Smash or riot.

Man you know what’s freaky I think it was here that someone knew the events of the manga like a year in advance or something. I remember something on here years ago about One Piece that came true. Not saying they had inside info but knowing where Zoro landed freaked me out.


I’ve actually been arguing something about his series for a decade now and I think I’m about cash in.

Also if you have the time take note as to how many times white rabbits and snow are associated together in the manga...

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

But yeah, if we get 2 characters this week, blog theory is looking pretty dire.


Granted, it's about damn time. We should have gotten most of these items/assists back in August/late September; now they're going to use October as their dumping ground for playing Direct catch-up.

Even though I’m done believeing theory’s The average is un killable

if we got to just one week away from December (69 characters so far/25 weeks) the average is 2.76 and you have to round it’s still 3 so impossible to kill it has to be one character a week for 7 weeks of the remainder and that’s almost impossible

 

[True Blue Warrior]

It implies that he isn't interested in adding non-game characters. They're

Sakurai literally called Dragon Ball requests unreasonable because they're not from video games. It was in a Sourcegaming article (which currently doesn't work)

However the biggest reason for the inclusion of Miis was because “anyone can join.” I know that having even a single character be playable in Smash is very important to those fans. I get requests from fans all over the world. With no regard for things like production costs, copyright, and even requests for characters that aren’t in games. Even if it is impossible, that these fans want those characters to be playable in Smash is a real desire.

aren’t in games: Requests for characters from Attack on Titan or Dragonball, for example. The younger the fans are, the more unrealistic the requests get.

If so, then you should make them yourself! I’ve set the stage for you to do so, so please, do as you would like. The outfit isn’t as freely customizable, but you should try to make Miis that looks like your favorite characters. If you use them, you can’t complain.

And before people bring up "well what about Villager/Pac-Man/Ridley?", the issue Sakurai had with those characters was a metter of gameplay design and being able to implement them in a way that felt adequate and true to their characters in his eyes. In contrast, he just straight-up called Dragon Ball character requests unreasonable.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Well it's October at last.

And the "new" tag is still on the website so we may not get a direct this month!

That was your first spook, for free.

I’m not even especting a direct this month

Just assuming but why does everyone keep throwing out the theory Sakurai will do the exact same thing he did with Robin and Lucina back in smash 4 just one trailer on a random day

That’s what I’m especting

 

[Michele]

Anyways...

Today is the first October. It might be the last chance for Skull KId. It's all or nothing for him.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Sakurai literally called Dragon Ball requests unreasonable because they're not from video games. It was in a Sourcegaming article (which currently doesn't work)

Which still has nothing to do with what the ballot point I made. It doesn't necessarily reflect what Sakurai thinks for the reasons I spoke of.

In addition, that was a long time back. We don't know if he'll always continue to think the same thing. So it's the exact same situation as previous "unreasonable" requests like Ridley. What changed is his opinion, nothing more. And I don't believe Goku will get in, but it still has more to do with licensing at this point, and nothing to do with the ballot itself.

Ridley himself was not turned down because of gameplay reasons alone. Characterization reasons affected it too. His size was important to his character, not simply being hard to translate balance-wise. That's the problem with your example up above, you are ignoring why he was fully dismissed. His boss status was used because it was intended to represent his characterization faithfully, and at that time, Sakurai believed that was the only way to make him faithful. Fan demands changed his opinion of why the character should be playable. It wasn't fully a gameplay issue to begin with(and Sakurai had to have an all new model created because he couldn't shrink him down anyway, so that helped too). He was unreasonable at that point for many reasons, and it wasn't cause of gameplay. Goku being unreasonable isn't just because of a non-game thing(something Sakurai made Mii Fighters to get around the requests, but has never proven to be ironclad in his opinions to begin with. He changed his mind on toggable hazards too, meaning his opinions are very clearly subject to change. Pretending his "no manga/anime characters" guideline cannot change is pretty ridiculous in itself when he's changed his mind on just about everything), it's far more because of a ton of licensing issues than anything else. That's still the bigger thing and for Sakurai, adding a huge icon still outweighs the benefits of a silly rule that doesn't really matter much.

Let's not forget that even if Goku were playable, nothing would change for who could get in overall. All 3rd parties are still meant to be huge icons overall(with at best one or two exceptions, but again, it's a guideline). He wouldn't just add anyone. Which is really the only major argument against it that holds much merit; that it'd somehow open the floodgates. It wouldn't. At all.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Are we legit fighting about Goku again?
We need new info asap...

 

[Untouch]

If an ARMs character gets in I hope they don't just go with the ARMs Arena for the stage.

I'd rather they go for Ribbon Girl's stage...
https://arms.nintendo.com/assets/img/about/stage05.png

or Min Min's stage.
https://arms.nintendo.com/assets/img/about/stage04.png

Can't post pictures right now, sorry.

 

[Yoshisaurus Rex]

EDIT: can’t post pics so nevermind.

 

[Pakky]

Honestly I think you could have 4 ARmS characters and an echo and not have an issue

Evidence



All similar with slight variations ARMS characters have abilities on top of different base equipment

 

[SvartWolf]

Just do a good crossover game with great gameplay featuring shonen jump and Dc comics, and there you got your goku on another super crossover game.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

A side note about the ballot:
It isn't just about the amount of votes. When we voted, it was required to also give a motivation for the vote.
Has anyone ever considered this?

 

[Frostwraith]

Wow, all of those costumes make way too much sense. Only questionable one for me is Robin as Samus and not Robin. WTF people, get it together.

Robin isn't called Robin in Japan, but Reflet (ルフレ).

 

[TMNTSSB4]

So does Capcom with the Marvel vs. Capcom games.

I mean Street Fighter, Mega Man, Darkstalkers, Devil May Cry, etc.

Unlike Nintendo, who’s perfectly fine with crossing over with other video game series only, Capcom ain’t fine with just Marvel (they need everyone)

I mean if Smash were to take canon into consideration, Corrin, Ridley, and Charizard would have unwinnable matchups against Marth, Lucina, Roy, and Chrom.

Corrin would have a chance since they can beat their fellow FE characters in a fight...but only them...Ridley would just murder Chrom specifically for no reason

 

[FalconFire93]

God Cloth Seiya from Saint Seiya would do the same.

Saint Seiya is amazing, I just finished watching the anime recently.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

If an ARMs character gets in I hope they don't just go with the ARMs Arena for the stage.

I'd rather they go for Ribbon Girl's stage...
https://arms.nintendo.com/assets/img/about/stage05.png

or Min Min's stage.
https://arms.nintendo.com/assets/img/about/stage04.png

Can't post pictures right now, sorry.

Why not a Pokemon Stadium style situation where the stage changes during the fight?

Honestly I think you could have 4 ARmS characters and an echo and not have an issue

Evidence



All similar with slight variations ARMS characters have abilities on top of different base equipment

So if we go like that, the 4 ARMS Characters would probably be as Follows:
Spring man
Ribbon Girl
Min Min
Springtron

 

[Squirtle/Mario guy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzJNbVvAQ44

Look at this awful video, bullying Chris Taylor (SpookyWoobler) everyone report this video
Now i think all SONY fans are toxic

 

[yeahmattm8]

Minus third parties or Sakurai throwing out a joke character does anyone really expect anything besides?
Geno, Skull Kid, Waddle Dee, Elma, Incineroar, Isaac or Dixie
(Not saying it will be all of them)