Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Luigifan18]

Tmw people are adding 32 characters and still aren't considering Crono
Feels bad man

Speak for yourself, I'm incensed by the lack of Vaati.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Gotta wonder why they went ahead and added 2 green Yoshis.

Unless Crafted Yoshi and regular green Yoshi can't be selected or on the stage at the same time.

Probably the same reason male and female Robin are pretty much identical outside of their hair. It'd be odd for the default crafted Yoshi color to be anything but green so they're willing to make that sacrifice. Samus having a Dark Samus costume, on the other hand, is redundant when Dark Samus is a playable fighter already, so there's no reason to keep it.

 

[Will]

I think "not getting players confused" is honestly a lost cause at this point when in Smash Wii U, you can currently have an 8 player FFA with all Little Macs being wireframes on the neon-green background stage that is Duck Hunt.

If players don't want to get confused, then leave it to the players to not choose similar looking alternate color-schemes.

Well one, that's a problem with choosing an alt that looks like another of the same character, not a completely separate character.
And two, then why did they decide to remove those costumes anyway?

 

[Guynamednelson]

They reduced the Wireframe Macs to two but still forgot a palette swap he had in the arcade game:

 

[Will]

I do believe with echos and extended DLC that it's possible to get to 100 through DLC. I don't think it's what they'll do, despite being close, so I don't consider it likely--I also try not to speculate too much on DLC as a lot of the unknown unknowns would become known after the game is released, in addition to the known unknowns of the base roster size/characters. But here's a realistic wish list to demonstrate:

Spoiler: 100 characters

Base
74. Incineroar
75. Isaac
76. Felix (echo)
77. Banjo & Kazooie
78. Ken (echo)
79. Shadow (echo)
80. Geno

DLC
81. Octolings (echo)
82. Dixie Kong (echo)
83. Impa (echo)
84-85. Rex & Pyra
86. Spring Man
87. Bandana Waddle Dee
88. Skull Kid
89. Edelgard
90. Waluigi (Assist-playable)

91. Joker (Sega/Atlus)
92. Tails (Sega)
93. Heihachi (Bandai Namco)
94. Bomberman (Konami/Assist-playable)
95. Dante (Capcom)
96. Erdrick (Square Enix)
97. Sora (Square Enix/Disney)
98. Rayman (Ubisoft)
99. Crash Bandicoot (Activision)
100. Travis Touchdown

I include echoes in the count, as well as considering Pokemon Trainer and Mii Fighters separately--it's kinda a cheat, but it's a cheat I could see them doing. The order also doesn't matter. Now, I do believe assist trophies to playable characters is an unlikely (but not unrealistic) scenario. Which is why I only did one first party and one third party--they could easily be substituted with other characters. And there's more given some known unknowns--if DLC is extended, we may see an 8th Gen Pokemon as DLC. And I'm certain there are some more plausible characters that I couldn't think of. It's easy to get to 100 characters with DLC--it's just uncertain how long it will go for.

As expected of you, not a single Steve in sight.
Kino points for Travis though.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I don't expect Jeanne, but there's enough of a difference between her and Bayonetta/Cereza that you wouldn't confuse them.

Like in each game their hair is literally the opposite of each other. Bayo 1? Jeanne has short hair, Bayo has long hair. Bayo 2? Other way around.

Problem solved if you want a Jeanne echo that bad.

 

[I_DON'T_KNOW_YOU!]

This needs a response this is the best

Spoiler: For Zinith

Zinith

Okay, here is Nintendo's response to "Bowsette"-

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018...eated-bowsette-before-the-internet-did/?amp=1

 

[Idon]

Yall really shouldn't put too much stock in a 32 character addition from a rando online that serves mostly as filler to reach the number 100, smh

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

The reason I'm iffy on the potential for 100 characters is because Sakurai stated this week how designing and balancing new fighters becomes more difficult as the roster expands. I know the team works very hard and support for this game is gonna last a while, but I get the feeling Sakurai may already have a character cap in mind. Just my two cents.

 

[CosmicQuark]

As expected of you, not a single Steve in sight.
Kino points for Travis though.

I personally do not think Minecraft works as a playable character, no matter how much I try to think of ways to do it. That being said, if Banjo & Kazooie are in, I have no problem with Steve--I'd be set. I did clarify it was a wish list.

EDIT:

The reason I'm iffy on the potential for 100 characters is because Sakurai stated this week how designing and balancing new fighters becomes more difficult as the roster expands. I know the team works very hard and support for this game is gonna last a while, but I get the feeling Sakurai may already have a character cap in mind. Just my two cents.

I feel like Sakurai had a character cap in mind in Brawl--and now we're at around 70 characters. While adding characters is multiplication--there may be enough time throughout Ultimate's life where they get so close they may try. Mad man, and all that.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

I don't expect Jeanne, but there's enough of a difference between her and Bayonetta/Cereza that you wouldn't confuse them.

Like in each game their hair is literally the opposite of each other. Bayo 1? Jeanne has short hair, Bayo has long hair. Bayo 2? Other way around.

Problem solved if you want a Jeanne echo that bad.

I guess it comes of not playing the games, but I don't see the appeal of Jeanne from a design perspective and Smash.
Now, what she does different from Bayo of course is something I'd have to play the game to understand.

For an individual who has never tried the game. Why would I want this character, for example over Crono from Chrono Trigger? Never tried that game either, but I like the character more based on design.

Would anyone who actually wants Jeanne explain to me the appeal? I'd like to know more of the character.

 

[Zinith]

As long as Boshi is among those remaining characters, I don't care what the others are...

 

[Will]

I personally do not think Minecraft works as a playable character, no matter how much I try to think of ways to do it.

I don't either but I'm still supporting him. All I can think about are those weird Link mods from Brawl.

I've gotten back into the game actually, I could make some type of moveset if I wanted to. The problem aren't things like specials or recovery, it's just imagining how he'd move or how he could be different. But even the most different ideas are probably not going to happen.

 

[Idon]

Why would I want this character, for example over Crono from Chrono Trigger? Never tried that game either, but I like the character more based on design.

Because she'd be a model-swap (In Smash at least) and Chrono would be an entirely different character.

if you're going to pit character wants over other character wants, at least make sure they weigh the same amount resources.

 

[Exalt4747]

I've been kind of ill these last couple of days. What have we been discussing?

 

[Idon]

I've been kind of ill these last couple of days. What have we been discussing?

"Does anyone else want to read my list of characters I want in Smash?" but in chocolate, vanilla, and strawberry flavors.

 

[Sharkarat]

Bomberman fits better as an assist than playable.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Because she'd be a model-swap (In Smash at least) and Chrono would be an entirely different character.

if you're going to pit character wants over other character wants, at least make sure they weigh the same amount resources.

Just used Crono because of him being previously discussed, and I was not trying to weigh both up against each other.
I just find Jeanne boring looking compared to the example which was used. Not a competition on resources, echo potential or what not.

I just wish to learn more about the character from someone who knows the character and series and find the design appealing.

 

[Will]

Bomberman fits better as an assist than playable.

Eeeeeeh debatable.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Waluigi fits better as an assist than playable.

Fixed that for you.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

100 characters? Guess it's time for a new game.

From 69 til 100. Who would the remaining characters be? To not go overboard. Clones and echoes will for this game hold an actual number.

69. Incineroar.
70. Elma.
71. Medusa.
72. Bandana Waddle Dee.
73. Isaac.
74. Chibi-Robo.
75. Dixie Kong.
76. Lip.
77. Rayman.
78. Geno.
79. Ken Masters.

80. Shadow the Hedgehog.
81. Banjo & Kazooie.
82. Steve.
83. Captain Toad.
84. Decidueye.
85. Chorus Kids.
86. Rex & Pyra.
87. Heihachi Mishima.
88. Spring Man.
89. Sora.
90. Crash Bandicoot.
91. Joker.
92. Celica.
93. Black Shadow.
94. Doshin the Giant.
95. Karate Joe.
96. Shantae.
97. Lark.
98. Skull Kid.
99. Shy Guy.
100. Hanafuda Cards.

Spoiler: Long

69. Incineroar
70. Elma
71. Geno
72. Chrous Men.
73. Isaac
74. Felix
75. Ken
76. Shadow
77. Steve
78. Gardevoir
79. Gothitelle
80. Crash Bandicoot
81. Rex & Pyra
82. Gen 8 Pokemon
83. Edelgarde
84. Springman
85. Min Min (She's a semi clone)
86. Heihachi
87. Ryu Hayabusa
88. Dixie Kong
89. Mach Rider
90. Impa
91. Captain Toad
92. Fatal Frame Protag
93. Celica
94. Dr Luigi
95. Karate Joe
96. Slippy
97. Ms. Pac-Man
98. Banjo Kazooie
99. Ayumi Tachibanna
100. Dragon King Fighter (The characters used in the beta of the Original Super Smash Bros.)

Yeah, The Roster Kinda Loses Charm after 90... I'd say that 90 would be a good max amount...

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

I don't see Jeanne getting in because a) Bayonetta still has her Jeanne skin and b) given all the controversy surrounding her, the last thing anyone wants is another Bayonetta and I'm fairly certain Sakurai knows this.

 

[Will]

Fixed that for you.

That's even more debatable than the last one

I don't see Jeanne getting in because a) Bayonetta still has her Jeanne skin and b) given all the controversy surrounding her, the last thing anyone wants is another Bayonetta and I'm fairly certain Sakurai knows this.

Imagine an Echo Ballot and Jeanne "wins"

 

[Guynamednelson]

79. Gothitelle

I still don't get how Emolga isn't the more obvious choice for a gen V echo, other than memes.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Spoiler: Long

69. Incineroar
70. Elma
71. Geno
72. Chrous Men.
73. Isaac
74. Felix
75. Ken
76. Shadow
77. Steve
78. Gardevoir
79. Gothitelle
80. Crash Bandicoot
81. Rex & Pyra
82. Gen 8 Pokemon
83. Edelgarde
84. Springman
85. Min Min (She's a semi clone)
86. Heihachi
87. Ryu Hayabusa
88. Dixie Kong
89. Mach Rider
90. Impa
91. Captain Toad
92. Fatal Frame Protag
93. Banjo Kazooie
94. Dr Luigi
95. Karate Joe
96. Slippy
97. Ms. Pac-Man
98. Banjo Kazooie
99. Ayumi Tachibanna
100. Dragon King Fighter (The characters used in the beta of the Original Super Smash Bros.)

Yeah, The Roster Kinda Loses Charm after 90... I'd say that 90 would be a good max amount...

I love how you've come around to love Banjo & Kazooie so much, you included them twice.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I don't see Jeanne getting in because a) Bayonetta still has her Jeanne skin and b) given all the controversy surrounding her, the last thing anyone wants is another Bayonetta and I'm fairly certain Sakurai knows this.

That's why he's nerfing Bayonetta rather then cutting her. This argument reminds me too much of the people who though Meta Knight would be cut from Smash 4 because of Brawl.

I think the costume is a really bad sign for her, but the controversy isn't.

 

[Sharkarat]

Fixed that for you.

Well, I think that about Waluigi too. so you're not too off.

 

[Will]

This argument reminds me too much of the people who though Meta Knight would be cut from Smash 4 because of Brawl.

Stop, you're reminding me of when I bought into that 4 years ago.
I bet the posts still exists, too.

 

[SigmaMewtwo]

100 characters? Guess it's time for a new game.

From 69 til 100. Who would the remaining characters be? To not go overboard. Clones and echoes will for this game hold an actual number.

Alright, I'll give this a go.

Spoiler: 100 Character Roster

69) Incineroar
70) Ken Masters
71) Tails
72) Geno
73) Steve
74) Isaac
75) Dixie Kong
76) Medusa
77) Skull Kid
78) Paper Mario
79) NiGHTS

80) Banjo-Kazooie
81) Jack Frost
82) Doomguy
83) Lloyd Irving
84) Heihachi Mishima
85) Crono
86) Rex & Pyra
87) Phoenix Wright
88) Professor Layton
89) Crash Bandicoot

90) Dovahkiin
91) Amaterasu
92) Chibi Robo
93) Rayman
94) Bandana Dee
95) Black Shadow
96) Octoling
97) Lip
98) Kamek
99) Mach Rider
100) Karate Joe

An overall varied list, and I decided to step outside of my comfort zone for certain picks (I'm not familiar with every character on this roster). Borrowing a smidgen more from third parties, I also tried to keep it varied so as not to include more than one character from any series in this list. There are more I could have added, but I figured this would please quite a few people all around.

 

[Idon]

Just used Crono because of him being previously discussed, and I was not trying to weigh both up against each other.
I just find Jeanne boring looking compared to the example which was used. Not a competition on resources, echo potential or what not.

I just wish to learn more about the character from someone who knows the character and series and find the design appealing.

Then the easiest thing to tell you would be that she does the same thing Bayonetta does but with a different visual flair, appearance, and personality.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

I still don't get how Emolga isn't the more obvious choice for a gen V echo, other than memes.

Wouldn't Emolga have to be a Semi clone Since she can fly?

I love how you've come around to love Banjo & Kazooie so much, you included them twice.

That was an honest mistake... Replaced one with Celica...

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Then the easiest thing to tell you would be that she does the same thing Bayonetta does but with a different visual flair, appearance, and personality.

Yeah, sort of that I've been thinking. I've recently accepted the thought of Ken Masters making it in. I feel Jeanne is just Bayo's Ken.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Wouldn't Emolga have to be a Semi clone Since she can fly?

They had to sacrifice the moves Dark Samus used as an assist to make her an echo, and they can change side/up B animations to make them feel like gliding. I just think Emolga should be a more obvious choice than Gothitelle since it's way more popular and doesn't have to depend on another unique fighter being made.

 

[Will]

Wouldn't Emolga have to be a Semi clone Since she can fly?

That was an honest mistake... Replaced one with Celica...

Wouldn't Dark Samus have to be a semi clone since she doesn't have missiles and bombs?

 

[Iridium]

Wouldn't Emolga have to be a Semi clone Since she can fly?

Unless Sakurai really considers showing off differences between the two in function, then probably no. And I think you mean glide, right?

 

[Idon]

Wouldn't Emolga have to be a Semi clone Since she can fly?

Echoes don't really matter in terms of what they "can" do because that could easily be cut out and replaced with things they can do that match the original.

Cough, Dark ****ing Samus, cough.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

No one wants Plusle & Minun anymore?

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

They had to sacrifice the moves Dark Samus used as an assist to make her an echo. I think Emolga should be a more obvious choice than Gothitelle since it's way more popular and doesn't have to depend on another unique fighter being made.

Okay sure, But if that means no Gardevoir, Who's gonna represent Gen 3?

Unless Sakurai really considers showing off differences between the two in function, then probably no. And I think you mean glide, right?

Yes, i mean glide...

No one wants Plusle & Minun anymore?

I would love them, but it would kind of feel weird to have the first 3 Gens of Pokemon represented by Pikachu clones

 

[TheCJBrine]

Base:
74. Incineroar
75. Ken
76. Steve
77. Banjo-Kazooie
78. Skull Kid
79. Geno
80. Goomba
81. Porky Minch
82. Chorus Kids
83. Alph
84. Plasm Wraith

DLC:
85. Gengar
86. Ninten
87. Karate Joe
88. Creeper
89. Stanley the Bugman
90. Impa
91. Hilda
92. Louie
93. Sans & Papyrus
94. Shantae
95. Sora
96. Slime from Dragon Quest
97. Black Mage
98. Toad
99. Wurmple
100. Waluigi

 

[Idon]

Who's gonna represent Gen 3?

No one.
Because not everything can or will get represented.