Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[MaestroDavros]

In a world where Sakurai didn't add Heihachi because he felt the moveset would be too hard to adapt, adding a character with 3 degrees of freedom on their limbs feels odd, unless they give him awful bendy limbs.

I've never understood that, because Street Fighter X Tekken exists, and that is entirely in 2D, including Heihachi (in the iOS version only as I understand).

Granted Smash is different from Street Fighter but if Heihachi can be translated to a Street Fighter style of gameplay, it's not that much more of a stretch to adapt him into Smash.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Because I'm bored as hell here's my delusional Ultimate roster which is objectively good.
Everyone confirmed so far with these extra characters

Spoiler

Rodin, Jeanne and Balder
Terra, Tifa, Cecil and Gilgamesh
Dixie and Cranky
Bandana Dee, Marx, Dark Meta Knight, Galacta Knight and Daroach
Skull Kid, Ghirahim, Tingle and Beast Ganon
Paper Mario, Nabbit and Vivian
Sheeda, Lyn, Hector, Alm and Celica
Proto Man, Bass, Zero and Vile
Kumatora, Masked Man and Porky
Incineroar, Gengar, Aggron, Sableye, Genesect, Darkrai and Zoroark
Viridi, Medusa and Hades
Ken, Chun Li, Akuma, Bison, Dudley, Poison and Rashid
Anthony Higgs, Rhundas and Sylux
Melia, Reyn, Dunban, Riki and Elma
Maria, Alucard, Soma and Shanoa
MGR Raiden
Shadow, Eggman, Blaze, Omega and Metal Sonic
Tom Nook
Ashley and Captain Syrup
NEW FRANCHISES!
Isaac and Felix from Golden Sun
Starfy
Spring Man, Ribbon Girl, Twintelle and Dr, Coyle from ARMS
Takamaru from Marasume Castle
Excitbike
Mach Rider
Wonder Red from Wonderful 101
Dillon from Dillon's Rolling Western
Bomberman
Kazuma Kiryu and Goro Majima from Yakuza
Dante, Vergil, Nero, Trish and Lady from Devil May Cry
Morrigan, Tolbain, Jedah and Anarkis from Darkstalkers
Arthur and Firebrand from Ghosts and Goblins
Chris Redfield, Jill Valentine, Nemesis and Wesker from Resident Evil
Viewtiful Joe and Sexy Silvia from Viewtiful Joe
Phoenix Wright from Ace Attorney
Amaterasu from Okami
Heihachi from Tekken
Nightmare from Soul Calibur
Lloyd from Tales
Shovel Knight, Shield Knight and Specter Knight from Shovel Knight
Shantae and Risky Boots from Shantae
Doomguy from Doom
Crash Bandicoot
Master Chief from Halo
Steve from Minecraft

don't @ me it's perfect

 

[Opossum]

It's impossible to deny how important Minecraft is, but it fits much better as just a stage to me. It'd be like adding a Tetromino because Tetris is popular.

As a reminder, people used this exact argument against Duck Hunt before he got in.

"Not every popular thing needs a character."

 

[Untouch]

As a reminder, people used this exact argument against Duck Hunt before he got in.

"Not every popular thing needs a character."

Not the same argument.
I'm saying that I feel that adding Steve just to add Steve doesn't fit when there are way better ways to represent the series like there would be way better ways to represent Tetris.

 

[staindgrey]

Wii Fit is it's own franchise, though, it was on Wii U.

Miis are also multi-system but they are from an app, rather than a game.

I'm aware. That's why I said "just me".

Wii Fit and the Mii concept, to me, are representative of the Wii era more than the games themselves. Wii Fit is one of Nintendo's best selling franchises ever, and the major reason for that is the Wii itself and how it catered to a casual market that otherwise never would've bought a gaming console. My sister, aunt, cousins, grandparents and even my gaming-hating girlfriend at that time all played Wii Sports, Wii Music and Wii Fit. I just clump the "Wii/Mii" brand together as a part of Nintendo history that's bigger than individual games.

 

[Impa4Smash]

To be fair:

1) No one was really asking for Wii Fit, ROB, G&W or Duck Hunt characters before their inclusion.
2) Steve isn't exactly a major point of Nintendo history.

I don't personally want Steve in the game, but I understand why he could possibly get in. Still, he's not quite the same as the other "wtf" characters we've gotten.

Fair points. Though I don’t think Steve not being a part of Nintendo’s history matters with Cloud in, and that’s certainly not why Steve gets all the hate he does

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

With worms I have also idea in my mind

I'd like to have Alex from Street of Rage, Jim from Earthworm Jim, The dude from Comix Zone (Sketch Turner if I remember his name right ?) oh and why not Ristar and Alex Kidd.

Also NiGHTS can be a good second rep for Sega.

>Alex
>Jim

You know, you kinda rock.

I've never understood that, because Street Fighter X Tekken exists, and that is entirely in 2D, including Heihachi (in the iOS version only as I understand).

Granted Smash is different from Street Fighter but if Heihachi can be translated to a Street Fighter style of gameplay, it's not that much more of a stretch to adapt him into Smash.

Sakurai prefers not to lazily copy movesets from fighting games (copying his own roster characters' movesets is a different can of worms ), unless there is a justification for it. It's why we got how Mega Man is in here, as opposed to Marvel Vs. Capcom.

 

[Opossum]

Not the same argument.
I'm saying that I feel that adding Steve just to add Steve doesn't fit when there are way better ways to represent the series like there would be way better ways to represent Tetris.

But it's literally the same thing. Tons of folks said Duck Hunt was better represented as a stage or assist.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

DasVergeben

2 points·15 hours ago·edited 12 hours ago
Yes. At least from what I've seen and can tell. There is a connection somewhere between what I have heard and Senjougahara__Hitagi hears. Like they said. I know some things they don't, they know some things I don't. But it seems to meet in the middle at times.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Kappa/comm...e_by_snk_just_announced_in/e6blbnp/?context=3

Interesting (thanks!).

Ok hear me out. Spring/Summer, earlier in Smash's production, Vergeben hears of Minecraft content but can't pin point what. Just knows it's there. This is the only time he wasn't sure of a character, every other time he knew it was Simon, Ridley, or even at least knew it was a Pokemon character or a Square character.

Now closer to release we start to hear Steve as a character from both Vergeben and others.

Idea - Steve is one of our first DLC fighters and Vergeben's sources only heard about Nintendo's deals with Microsoft and Minecraft, nothing about a character was solidified yet.

This also probably means the Square character is base so that would make you non-box people happy lol. I hope that's the case.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Because I'm bored as hell here's my delusional Ultimate roster which is objectively good.
Everyone confirmed so far with these extra characters

Spoiler

Rodin, Jeanne and Balder
Terra, Tifa, Cecil and Gilgamesh
Dixie and Cranky
Bandana Dee, Marx, Dark Meta Knight, Galacta Knight and Daroach
Skull Kid, Ghirahim, Tingle and Beast Ganon
Paper Mario, Nabbit and Vivian
Sheeda, Lyn, Hector, Alm and Celica
Proto Man, Bass, Zero and Vile
Kumatora, Masked Man and Porky
Incineroar, Gengar, Aggron, Sableye, Genesect, Darkrai and Zoroark
Viridi, Medusa and Hades
Ken, Chun Li, Akuma, Bison, Dudley, Poison and Rashid
Anthony Higgs, Rhundas and Sylux
Melia, Reyn, Dunban, Riki and Elma
Maria, Alucard, Soma and Shanoa
MGR Raiden
Shadow, Eggman, Blaze, Omega and Metal Sonic
Tom Nook
Ashley and Captain Syrup
NEW FRANCHISES!
Isaac and Felix from Golden Sun
Starfy
Spring Man, Ribbon Girl, Twintelle and Dr, Coyle from ARMS
Takamaru from Marasume Castle
Excitbike
Mach Rider
Wonder Red from Wonderful 101
Dillon from Dillon's Rolling Western
Bomberman
Kazuma Kiryu and Goro Majima from Yakuza
Dante, Vergil, Nero, Trish and Lady from Devil May Cry
Morrigan, Tolbain, Jedah and Anarkis from Darkstalkers
Arthur and Firebrand from Ghosts and Goblins
Chris Redfield, Jill Valentine, Nemesis and Wesker from Resident Evil
Viewtiful Joe and Sexy Silvia from Viewtiful Joe
Phoenix Wright from Ace Attorney
Amaterasu from Okami
Heihachi from Tekken
Nightmare from Soul Calibur
Lloyd from Tales
Shovel Knight, Shield Knight and Specter Knight from Shovel Knight
Shantae and Risky Boots from Shantae
Doomguy from Doom
Crash Bandicoot
Master Chief from Halo
Steve from Minecraft

don't @ me it's perfect

But no Ricky Ricardo!??!

 

[staindgrey]

Guys, you are all talking about FF and DQ and Geno about the Square Enix rep but... isn't Life is Strange also done by SE?

It is!

Care to come up with a moveset?

 

[Untouch]

But it's literally the same thing. Tons of folks said Duck Hunt was better represented as a stage or assist.

I have never seen anyone say that, in fact I never saw anyone talk about Duck Hunt in smash at all before ESRB leak (and even when I thought that was fake Duck Hunt was one of the characters I was most excited for personally because of the absurdity of it).

 

[DevaAshera]

Ah ok. I loved the Batman TAS and Superman TAS of the 90's and know the names of the two voice actors (who also reprised their roles for Justice League). Sephiroth didn't sound like Tim Daly, but these guys are Voice Actors for a living, so I didn't question it knowing they can probably change their voices up a bit for different roles. Like How Vic Mignogna does the voice for both Edward Elric and Broly. Kinda figure they can all vary like that.

Actually, Tim Daly was only in Superman TAS, he was replaced by another actor for Batman Beyond and then again with George Newbern for Justice League and JL Unlimited.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Given my luck, I already see Minecraft content and influences everywhere, even French comic books (as evidenced by Nigel et Fluffy), at this rate it will end up in Smash. Whether Sakurai will want to have it in this time is the real question.

 

[ChocolatGelgato]

I don't want steve only because people are gonna give me **** for playing the game with the minecraft man in it lmao. I wont be able to say I play smash because it's forever gonna be the game that added steve and nothing else in everyone's eyes.

 

[pupNapoleon]

As a reminder, people used this exact argument against Duck Hunt before he got in.

"Not every popular thing needs a character."

I want an arcade mode.
Classic games like Tetris and Space Invaders would be found in this mode.
It would be somewhere between a stage and an event, with each of these franchises "unfitting" of a character as the star of the gameplay.
In tetris mode, for example, one player is the blocks, and the other characters have to not get smooshed. The person who makes it to the top first, wins.
In space invader mode, characters have to compete with their best projectiles (or distance attacks) to try to KO the most ships without being hit.
Or something along these lines.
Pong would be great too, though Nintendo has its own version of it.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I personally think when Sakurai said that he believes, “a change in direction is what’s needed”, he was referring to the game as a whole. You can just focus on adding as many characters as possible, but hen the rest of the game suffers.

Instead, if you already have a big, diverse, well represented roster, you can flesh out other things like single player, stages, items, maybe even stuff like trophies and music.

We’ve seen this in action already with content being added onto simple additions. We could have just gotten Dracula’s Castle, but no. We got stage hazards of different monsters and Dracula himself. It’s not just a stage, it’s an experience.

These are the sorts of additions I think Sakurai is looking for. He’s added more modes that aren’t crap like Tour. They refined other modes like Classic and Squad Strike.

I think fans get too caught up in characters and don’t focus enough on actually being able to play it. Having good characters is good, but will mean nothing is there aren’t new, fantastic ways to play the game as them.

 

[Noipoi]

I've returned from the basement master locks me in when i've been a cheeky boy, what's new?

please don't say boxes.

 

[MSmariosonic]

I can't seem to find anything about the Smash Ultimate with a pro controller and steelbook bundle releasing in Europe...

Christ...

 

[pupNapoleon]

I have never seen anyone say that, in fact I never saw anyone talk about Duck Hunt in smash at all before ESRB leak (and even when I thought that was fake Duck Hunt was one of the characters I was most excited for personally because of the absurdity of it).

You did not search thoroughly.
Arcadenik

 

[Untouch]

I've returned from the basement master locks me in when i've been a cheeky boy, what's new?

please don't say boxes.

We've moved from boxes to blocks.

 

[Sharkarat]

It should be mentioned that during Smash 4 speculation, a decent amount of people was disgusted by the idea of Miis being playable.
While not completely comparable, there's still some parallells you could draw, including the "the character is ugly" complaint.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I've returned from the basement master locks me in when i've been a cheeky boy, what's new?

please don't say boxes.

Steve could be in Smash and that sort of blows apart the box theory

 

[Grevmak]

Since Arcade stuff has been mentioned, I'd love to see some sort of endless scaling difficulty mode for Smash Ultimate.

Some sort of arcade mode that gets harder and harder with random challenges along the way, one with all items on, and another with For Glory rules maybe. I like pushing these endless things so this is a 100% egoistic wish but maybe others would find that fun, too.

 

[Untouch]

I can't seem to find anything about the Smash Ultimate with a pro controller and steelbook bundle releasing in Europe...

Christ...

It's on german amazon at the moment.
https://www.amazon.de/Super-Smash-Bros-Ultimate-Special/dp/B07GX4GWC2

 

[pupNapoleon]

I can't seem to find anything about the Smash Ultimate with a pro controller and steelbook bundle releasing in Europe...

Christ...

That is obviously because there are more characters in the Europe version, and they just dont all fit on the box, so there is thusly no bundle.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I've returned from the basement master locks me in when i've been a cheeky boy, what's new?

please don't say boxes.

I made the objectively best 'infinite budget' roster anyone could, you can find it by scrolling up

 

[TheCJBrine]

I expect calm1, 2, and 3 to come with Steve if we get him, or any Minecraft content in general. (one of these calms is "Sweden")

Also "wait" a.k.a. "Where Are We Now?", "Cat" + "Dog", and hopefully "Moog City 2" (menu2.ogg), and "calm4" (calm4 was a test by Notch, the original creator's username, which felt more like battle music).

 

[KingofKoopas]

Between Cardboard Boxes, Gaming guides that are notiously memeworthy for being inaccurate and horrible, and effing CHAIRS i think maybe i should propose a theory that isnt... well... Stupid.

So this may have been proposed by someone else but i been thinking, alot of what were getting coincides with the Mii fighter Costumes dont they. Perhaps nintendo was using them froma ssets they were using for Ultimate?

We already got a few characters who were mii fighter costumes so far those being: Inkling, Chrom, King K Rool, and Isabelle.

Now this isnt a perfect theory as not all of the mii costumes would fit, the entire fist wave can be just reused assets from the existing game with the exception of Protoman who became part of Megamans final smash, not an actual character or echo. As well as Ashley and Takamaru remaining Assist Trophies while Knuckles and Zero became Assist Trophies but this is reused ASSETS not fully characters.

Try to remember the King K Rool Trailer, King Dedede WAS wearing what looked like the head of the King K Rool Mii Costume, and if you recall that costumes reveal the Mii wearing it did have a Trollish **** eating grin on his face the way Dedede did so it might have been planned.

This however does not account for Ridley nor Dark Samus but try to remember one was a boss and the other was an Assist Trophy so its not hard to think they used those assets as a base for the fighters.


In Conclusion if this is more than just a mad cap theory i think we may see Heihachi, Monster Hunter, and Akira from Virtua fighter, with some of the others like Jacky and Gil as Assist Trophies or some other form of representation but itd be hard to think that these wouldnt be used in some concievable way as either Fighters or Assists.

TL;DR Mii Costumes > Chairs and Cardboard Boxes

 

[Paperchampion23]

If Steve is in, I can see him more having a more expressing look like the Storymode content, similar to how expressive Pac-man is. That way, he won't feel nearly as rigid. If it's like this I don't mind at all.

 

[Arcadenik]

I have never seen anyone say that, in fact I never saw anyone talk about Duck Hunt in smash at all before ESRB leak (and even when I thought that was fake Duck Hunt was one of the characters I was most excited for personally because of the absurdity of it).

Hi. I was a staunch supporter of Duck Hunt Dog since 2002. I supported that dog unironically for 12 years.

 

[Noipoi]

Was there a leak with Steve in it? Or are we just speculating?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

As a reminder, people used this exact argument against Duck Hunt before he got in.

"Not every popular thing needs a character."

And now we got people asking for Frogger...

I personally think when Sakurai said that he believes, “a change in direction is what’s needed”, he was referring to the game as a whole. You can just focus on adding as many characters as possible, but hen the rest of the game suffers.

Instead, if you already have a big, diverse, well represented roster, you can flesh out other things like single player, stages, items, maybe even stuff like trophies and music.

We’ve seen this in action already with content being added onto simple additions. We could have just gotten Dracula’s Castle, but no. We got stage hazards of different monsters and Dracula himself. It’s not just a stage, it’s an experience.

These are the sorts of additions I think Sakurai is looking for. He’s added more modes that aren’t crap like Tour. They refined other modes like Classic and Squad Strike.

I think fans get too caught up in characters and don’t focus enough on actually being able to play it. Having good characters is good, but will mean nothing is there aren’t new, fantastic ways to play the game as them.

The sad thing is, there's still going to be people that ignore all of that and just play on Final Destination with items turned off.

Seriously, guys, Melee was 17 years ago. You have to move on.

Between Cardboard Boxes, Gaming guides that are notiously memeworthy for being inaccurate and horrible, and effing CHAIRS i think maybe i should propose a theory that isnt... well... Stupid.

So this may have been proposed by someone else but i been thinking, alot of what were getting coincides with the Mii fighter Costumes dont they. Perhaps nintendo was using them froma ssets they were using for Ultimate?

We already got a few characters who were mii fighter costumes so far those being: Inkling, Chrom, King K Rool, and Isabelle.

Now this isnt a perfect theory as not all of the mii costumes would fit, the entire fist wave can be just reused assets from the existing game with the exception of Protoman who became part of Megamans final smash, not an actual character or echo. As well as Ashley and Takamaru remaining Assist Trophies while Knuckles and Zero became Assist Trophies but this is reused ASSETS not fully characters.

Try to remember the King K Rool Trailer, King Dedede WAS wearing what looked like the head of the King K Rool Mii Costume, and if you recall that costumes reveal the Mii wearing it did have a Trollish **** eating grin on his face the way Dedede did so it might have been planned.

This however does not account for Ridley nor Dark Samus but try to remember one was a boss and the other was an Assist Trophy so its not hard to think they used those assets as a base for the fighters.


In Conclusion if this is more than just a mad cap theory i think we may see Heihachi, Monster Hunter, and Akira from Virtua fighter, with some of the others like Jacky and Gil as Assist Trophies or some other form of representation but itd be hard to think that these wouldnt be used in some concievable way as either Fighters or Assists.

TL;DR Mii Costumes > Chairs and Cardboard Boxes

Finally, someone that gets it. They're certainly taking Mii costumes into account, so even Federation Force Marines as ATs wouldn't seem that random. How many promotions we'll have in this fashion is what we can wait and see for.

If Steve is in, I can see him more having a more expressing look like the Storymode content, similar to how expressive Pac-man is. That way, he won't feel nearly as rigid. If it's like this I don't mind at all.View attachment 165719

Seems fair, but I don't know if Ninty would acknowledge Telltale Games stuff.

 

[Untouch]

If Steve is in, I can see him more having a more expressing look like the Storymode content, similar to how expressive Pac-man is. That way, he won't feel nearly as rigid. If it's like this I don't mind at all.

Oh god no I'd take totally rigid expressionless Steve over this any day.

 

[Paperchampion23]

DasVergeben

2 points·15 hours ago·edited 12 hours ago
Yes. At least from what I've seen and can tell. There is a connection somewhere between what I have heard and Senjougahara__Hitagi hears. Like they said. I know some things they don't, they know some things I don't. But it seems to meet in the middle at times.

Wait this leaker also mentioned a Granblue character was coming on reddit. Are you telling me this person is just as reliable? Damn lol

 

[kylexv]

Was there a leak with Steve in it? Or are we just speculating?

Vergeben stated that the Minecraft content might be a character. He also said it could be a stage and/or assist trophy.

Either his sources aren't sure or are saying different things about it.

 

[ChocolatGelgato]

If Steve is in, I can see him more having a more expressing look like the Storymode content, similar to how expressive Pac-man is. That way, he won't feel nearly as rigid. If it's like this I don't mind at all.

Story Mode/Youtube Blender animation Steve is cursed to all helll let's not even entertain this

 

[pupNapoleon]

Hi. I was a staunch supporter of Duck Hunt Dog since 2002. I supported that dog unironically for 12 years.

But did you support the ducks? Because supporting the dog is only a third of what we got.
Maybe you werent a real Duck Hunt fan. I'm no longer convinced.

 

[Chrono.]

So, which SE rep (aside from Geno) would you like to see the most being added in Smash?
For me, it's either Agent 47 or Adam Jensen

- Black Mage (or Vivi)
- Noctis
- Sora
- Crono
- Serge
- Erdrick
- Eight

 

[The_Intruder]

I can't seem to find anything about the Smash Ultimate with a pro controller and steelbook bundle releasing in Europe...

Christ...

Only for USA currently and not sure it will be released outside of it because europe has a different limited edition.
(that's why box theory is even more strange).