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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Zinith

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Hold on, I've got J. Jonah Jameson around here somewhere.

I'm kind of hard pressed to say exactly what the Itty Bitty PSX Committee is going to end up with, though. Seems like they're mostly aiming for the 95-98 era so far; I wasn't invested enough then to really give a good analysis.

MediEvil, Twisted Metal, and PaRappa the Rapper come to mind.
It's probably the only time that game will ever get attention from Capcom these days. Plus the anime style makes that game age better than most other PSX games...
 

papagenos

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Personally I don't think the music theory applies to dlc (I mean how could it?). So I'm sticking with my guns and saying Pokemon newcomer....mayyyyyyybe a Xenoblade newcomer or Shadow/Tails semi-clone, but Geno is first dlc revealed at final Smash Direct. Makes a lot of sense.
im personally still guessing geno is base game as the final secret reveal.

but yeah if he was the first dlc, and announced before the games release, music theory would not apply.
 

CosmicQuark

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I think Geno's pretty likely for the base game, it all lines up. Smash 4 DLC started with first party (veterans). I'm wondering how long negotiations take for third parties, where they would have started those negotiations for DLC in Ultimate's development cycle. Which is why my bet is the first few DLC characters will be first party, as they're probably faster to put through the pipeline.
 

praline

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I actually think Nemesis could be a cool addition to Smash so if he or Jill became playable as dlc that would be cool.
 

Imadethistoseealeak

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I think Geno's pretty likely for the base game, it all lines up. Smash 4 DLC started with first party (veterans). I'm wondering how long negotiations take for third parties, where they would have started those negotiations for DLC in Ultimate's development cycle. Which is why my bet is the first few DLC characters will be first party, as they're probably faster to put through the pipeline.
Counterpoint, I think the paperwork for Geno was mostly done with 4. Meaning negotiations probably weren't as in depth .

I suppose a counter counter point is that actually makes it more likely he's in the base game. Which would be cool, but I'm just trying to work with the music theory lol. Honestly it's also possible Sakurai follows the music theory all the way to the end and then says screw it with Geno.
I actually think Nemesis could be a cool addition to Smash so if he or Jill became playable as dlc that would be cool.
I want an RE character soooooo bad. Nemisis is probably unlikely, third parties seem to focus on their protagonists. I think it's likely we will get Leon and a Jill echo (or vice versa). Leon has a lot of history with Nintendo and Jill is iconic. Could be Chris instead of Jill but that would make me sad.
 
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papagenos

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I think Geno's pretty likely for the base game, it all lines up. Smash 4 DLC started with first party (veterans). I'm wondering how long negotiations take for third parties, where they would have started those negotiations for DLC in Ultimate's development cycle. Which is why my bet is the first few DLC characters will be first party, as they're probably faster to put through the pipeline.
agreed.

fits with vergebens leaked characters.

lands us at fighter #70 for the end instead of #69. Also gives us 72 fighters for smashdown so it exhausts every fighter when its played with the full base games roster unlocked. basically fits with box theory and music theory so long as geno is a special "final" reveal, which makes sense imo anyway.

12 newcomers (12 characters in smash64) and we'd have 9 new stages if corocoros 108 is true ( 9 original smash 64 stages).

i know patterns and numbers rarely mean things in smash but i still feel ken/incineroar/geno for the final three instead of just ken/incineroar makes more sense to me... but my desire for geno might be clouding my judgement so who knows haha
 

Imadethistoseealeak

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agreed.

fits with vergebens leaked characters.

lands us at fighter #70 for the end instead of #69. Also gives us 72 fighters for smashdown so it exhausts every fighter when its played with the full base games roster unlocked. basically fits with box theory and music theory so long as geno is a special "final" reveal, which makes sense imo anyway.

12 newcomers (12 characters in smash64) and we'd have 9 new stages if corocoros 108 is true ( 9 original smash 64 stages).

i know patterns and numbers rarely mean things in smash but i still feel ken/incineroar/geno for the final three instead of just ken/incineroar makes more sense to me... but my desire for geno might be clouding my judgement so who knows haha
Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't we be at 73 characters for smash down? Or are you not counting Miis? Not that I think that breaks your logic.

However, if Geno & Inceniroar is in base game I think that breaks the box theory. The box might still be right, but if Geno isn't on the box, well that makes the theory pretty pointless.
 

Jetsurge

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Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't we be at 73 characters for smash down? Or are you not counting Miis? Not that I think that breaks your logic.

However, if Geno & Inceniroar is in base game I think that breaks the box theory. The box might still be right, but if Geno isn't on the box, well that makes the theory pretty pointless.
I don't think we should think about Smashdown like that since it will be broken by dlc very quickly. It'll probably be the top players with the most points/wins stay in when there isn't enough characters left.
 

redfeatherraven

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It's probably the only time that game will ever get attention from Capcom these days.
And we've gone from J. Jonah Jameson to Bad News Barrett.

Plus the anime style makes that game age better than most other PSX games...
There's a lot of games they could say that about, though.

Like Tomba.

Maybe they'll put Tomba on it.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Hold on, I've got J. Jonah Jameson around here somewhere.

I'm kind of hard pressed to say exactly what the Itty Bitty PSX Committee is going to end up with, though. Seems like they're mostly aiming for the 95-98 era so far; I wasn't invested enough then to really give a good analysis.

MediEvil, Twisted Metal, and PaRappa the Rapper come to mind.
I doubt MediEvil, that's getting the Crash treatment right?
 

papagenos

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Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't we be at 73 characters for smash down? Or are you not counting Miis? Not that I think that breaks your logic.

However, if Geno & Inceniroar is in base game I think that breaks the box theory. The box might still be right, but if Geno isn't on the box, well that makes the theory pretty pointless.
72 for smashdown because smashdown doesnt count miis.

yeah it would go against "box theory" on the surface (its one more character than can fit) and would mean geno is either on the back of the box or off the box entirely but the way i assume it might happen is we get a direct (like early november) with ken/incineroar and sakurai tells us he has "one more character to announce later on"... and then the box and mural and promotional stuff goes into printing, geno is left off all that stuff, and then right before the games release, like the week of/week before release, we get some final hype video for the game and geno is announced during that as a final surprise.

just an example but something like that where the final character is an exception to being on the box because its being saved for a final reveal.

of course equally likely is geno is announced simply as dlc so we know dlc is coming and the game will be supported for a while after release. my issue with that is mostly how we dont land at fighter #70, smashdown in the base final roster doesnt exhaust every fighter, we have 11 newcomers instead of 12 (mirroring smash 64) etc...

i just think three more characters makes more sense, as i dont really care if geno is base roster or dlc so long as hes in but i still think it makes more sense to have him in the base roster.
 

Chrono.

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Dang, only 2 new pages since I went to bed? That's the deadest I've seen this place.
 
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CosmicQuark

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Counterpoint, I think the paperwork for Geno was mostly done with 4. Meaning negotiations probably weren't as in depth .

I suppose a counter counter point is that actually makes it more likely he's in the base game. Which would be cool, but I'm just trying to work with the music theory lol. Honestly it's also possible Sakurai follows the music theory all the way to the end and then says screw it with Geno.

I want an RE character soooooo bad. Nemisis is probably unlikely, third parties seem to focus on their protagonists. I think it's likely we will get Leon and a Jill echo (or vice versa). Leon has a lot of history with Nintendo and Jill is iconic. Could be Chris instead of Jill but that would make me sad.
I'm not a legal scholar, but I think the legalities of a playable fighter are a lot more difficult beyond simply using their image--moves, animations, possible stage/character/music licenses, and all of them have to be renegotiated between games, they don't carry over. Though, Geno may also be a special case, since he's technically a Mario character and would probably be easier to get than the typical Square Enix character. That being said, the fact they were able to work out some of the licensing issues with Geno for his Mii Costume helps his chances being in the base game, or as the first DLC character.

agreed.

fits with vergebens leaked characters.

lands us at fighter #70 for the end instead of #69. Also gives us 72 fighters for smashdown so it exhausts every fighter when its played with the full base games roster unlocked. basically fits with box theory and music theory so long as geno is a special "final" reveal, which makes sense imo anyway.

12 newcomers (12 characters in smash64) and we'd have 9 new stages if corocoros 108 is true ( 9 original smash 64 stages).

i know patterns and numbers rarely mean things in smash but i still feel ken/incineroar/geno for the final three instead of just ken/incineroar makes more sense to me... but my desire for geno might be clouding my judgement so who knows haha
Yeah, and I have to be honest my desire for Banjo is similar in that I have to be extra skeptical of my own thoughts when it comes to theories that contradict his inclusion. That being said, out of all the theories, the blog theory makes the most sense. 26 weeks of blog entries, average 3 characters per week, means roughly 78 characters (including echoes) potentially to be blogged about, if that pattern holds. We're at 70 now, so around 8 characters seems more likely than the more pessimistic theories, though after the last Direct, and how much time we have left, I'm thinking it's on the lower end. Cautiously optimistic.
 

Jakenimbus

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Doesn’t matter I don’t believe the box theory I never will

It’s a placeholder images the only way I’m going into it if they literally say ken and incineroar are the last characters
It would make sense if the game was launching in spring time if the box is a place holder, but considering that the box has a lot of polish on it and the game is coming out in December signals that the box is most likely legit
 

Heatswave

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It's certainly interesting, but it's a pattern, just like the box theory, that easily could be broken if they just decided to break it, in example at a certain point before release they'll just stop covering characters, when there are no more...
The box theory does align with Vergeben (except for the Square Rep (possibly Geno), which he is looking into currently) and several official statements by Sakurai and the 8/8 Direct (103 stages, not that much characters, "...a few more to reveal", 4 characters is a few more, 8 characters, and in that way more than doubling what was revealed at that point (7 fighters as it was said before King K. Rool and Isabelle) is rather not).

That said, I'm pretty sure everyone is hoping the box theory is wrong and the blog post theory is right, but the evidence we have right now makes me more inclined to the box theory...
 
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Smashoperatingbuddy123

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It would make sense if the game was launching in spring time if the box is a place holder, but considering that the box has a lot of polish on it and the game is coming out in December signals that the box is most likely legit
No place holder as in that box art is not finslized it could add another row

Could be characters on the back of the box

And as for the blog theory

Math vs image that can be changed to go beyond 2 more what's more likely
 
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Ramen Tengoku

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So... Just heard that another one of Veregeben's Claims possibly came true... Ken, and Incineroar now seem extremely likely to me...
 
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CosmicQuark

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It would make sense if the game was launching in spring time if the box is a place holder, but considering that the box has a lot of polish on it and the game is coming out in December signals that the box is most likely legit
Um, what? It is a placeholder. It's missing Isabelle, as well as the rumored characters. I think even the most adamant box defenders concede that it's a placeholder. What we disagree with is whether or not the pattern would remain consistent between its placeholder image and finalized design.
 

Jakenimbus

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No place holder as in that box art is not finslized it could add another row

Could be characters on the back of the box
My new theory is that they are probably gonna remove all the echos on the box and only put the new characters so that opens up some more spots and could kinda connect to the blog theory.
 

Mega Bidoof

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The box theory does align with Vergeben (except for Geno, which he is looking into currently)
Did he confirm the Square-Enix character was Geno? Last I heard (his update a few days back), he didn’t want to say who the S-E character was.
 

MoonlitIllusion

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It would make sense if the game was launching in spring time if the box is a place holder, but considering that the box has a lot of polish on it and the game is coming out in December signals that the box is most likely legit
Except it is a placeholder, isabelle wasn't on it, and the roster is being so closely guarded that it makes no sense to tell some graphic designer the final count, it makes far more sense to tell them to just fit our current lineup on it and then edit it later after the others are revealed.
 

Heatswave

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No, he didn't confirm Geno, just seems plausible to me. But I'll change it in my post above to not cause anymore confusion.
 
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Imadethistoseealeak

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Except the fact we have gotten weeks of just 2 veterans. I know it tries to average it, but that ignores the fact it's totally possible in November we could see a slow down of veteran reveals.



Quick question everyone about Miis and Smash down. I know why people are saying they don't think Miis will be in Smash down (they weren't in the direct) but do people really think that's for sure? And why would that be? Seems strange to exclude them from a game mode.
 

Squirtle/Mario guy

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Except the fact we have gotten weeks of just 2 veterans. I know it tries to average it, but that ignores the fact it's totally possible in November we could see a slow down of veteran reveals.



Quick question everyone about Miis and Smash down. I know why people are saying they don't think Miis will be in Smash down (they weren't in the direct) but do people really think that's for sure? And why would that be? Seems strange to exclude them from a game mode.
I do not beileve the box theory, well unless Vergeben says it's true
 

Heatswave

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Quick question everyone about Miis and Smash down. I know why people are saying they don't think Miis will be in Smash down (they weren't in the direct) but do people really think that's for sure? And why would that be? Seems strange to exclude them from a game mode.
Playing it safe, because they don't know, if they will get the Miis ready for Online? Assuming Smashdown can be played online, which doesn't seem that farfetched to me...
 

CosmicQuark

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Except it is a placeholder, isabelle wasn't on it, and the roster is being so closely guarded that it makes no sense to tell some graphic designer the final count, it makes far more sense to tell them to just fit our current lineup on it and then edit it later after the others are revealed.
I've heard reasonable ideas that marketers may actually know the final count. However, box theorists take that implying their theory is correct, whereas it just as easily implies it may not be correct--if the marketing team knows information about the finalized roster, why would they imply that through the box art before it's revealed? :p

EDIT: As for Mii's in Smashdown, I will legitimately be disappointed if Mii Fighters aren't included in Smashdown as implied by the Direct. It would not be a true Iron Man mode.
 
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