Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Moydow]

View attachment 165204

Haha these guys are funny

Not that I really care about whatever spat is going on here, but I agree that it's somewhat disingenuous for Source Gaming to claim these renders as "exclusives". I also have access to the Nintendo press site, and also had access to these renders as of about three weeks ago (I didn't know about them before now, because I really need to check the press site more often so that I can claim the glory for myself next time), so logically anyone else with press site access could get them from there too.

 

[praline]

So question for you all. What would you’re reaction be if the next Smash game cut these characters:










:ultrobin







in exchange for:
Skull Kid
Impa
Sylux
Bandana Waddle Dee
Dixie Kong
Waluigi
A Gen 8 Pokemon
A Lance/Ace Fire Emblem lord
Elma
Rex & Pyra
Isaac
Banjo and Kazooie
Dante
Doomguy

I’d ****ing hate it.

 

[Pyra]

Not that I really care about whatever spat is going on here, but I agree that it's somewhat disingenuous for Source Gaming to claim these renders as "exclusives". I also have access to the Nintendo press site, and also had access to these renders as of about three weeks ago (I really need to check the press site more often so that I can claim the glory for myself next time), so logically anyone else with press site access could get them from there too.

Yeah, I don't disagree with that. It IS a PR kit.
I think the reaction in general between them and the people responding to them is pretty funny.

 

[Deleted member]

Don't give up hope. My favorite is the fire-painted platypus butthead Magmar, and I knew he'd just get left in the dust of forgotten first-gen history.

Then they went and gave me a whole section of the Sun/Moon world littered with fully animated Magmars walking around.

You just gotta believe.

I mean, they did give Farfetch'd +25 to attack on Sun/Moon. It's still trash, but an increase that big is very much appreciated. Now we just need Mega Politoed which has Gen 5 Drizzle as it's ability.

So question for you all. What would you’re reaction be if the next Smash game cut these characters:










:ultrobin







in exchange for:
Skull Kid
Impa
Sylux
Bandana Waddle Dee
Dixie Kong
Waluigi
A Gen 8 Pokemon
A Lance/Ace Fire Emblem lord
Elma
Rex & Pyra
Isaac
Banjo and Kazooie
Dante
Doomguy

Hell no.
Cutting Shulk and Ryu already is a deal breaker, but then you also throw Ike, Robin, Mewtwo AND Lucario in there. It doesn't help that the only character being added that I like is Isaac, and I'd only like him if he was Dark Dawn Isaac.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

If you're talking about Beast Ganon, that's a different beast(heh). A Beast Ganon fighter should do those things but humanoid Ganondorf never wields a Trident, teleports or fires bat projectiles.

But they are ultimately the same character and would have access to the same abilities, even just looking at human ganondorf in ocarina of time his main form of attack is firing electrical projectiles, and he should be able to float which he doesn't do in smash for some reason. Can you seriously look at his fight in oot and then look at his smash moveset and tell me that that's accurate?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

So what I'm hearing is that Yoshi has a Crafted alt and potentially a Crafted World Stage right?

Not sure about the stage but the crafted alt is real from what people found.

 

[Deleted member]

Now we just need Mega Politoed which has Gen 5 Drizzle as it's ability.

So basically Mega Politoed with Primordial Sea?

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

So question for you all. What would you’re reaction be if the next Smash game cut these characters:










:ultrobin







in exchange for:
Skull Kid
Impa
Sylux
Bandana Waddle Dee
Dixie Kong
Waluigi
A Gen 8 Pokemon
A Lance/Ace Fire Emblem lord
Elma
Rex & Pyra
Isaac
Banjo and Kazooie
Dante
Doomguy

The only one here I'd really be sad about losing is Shulk, that's my baby boy right there. Lucario too. But I would get elma, dixie, impa and bandana dee so that would be pretty sweet.

Not sure about the stage but the crafted alt is real from what people found.

I'd be extremely weird to add an alt from an unreleased game that already looks pretty close to the original outfit and on top of that cutting the wooly world stage without adding in a crafted world stage

 

[staindgrey]

So question for you all. What would you’re reaction be if the next Smash game cut these characters:
...


:ultrobin



...
in exchange for:
...
A Lance/Ace Fire Emblem lord

Cutting Ike, Robin, Roy, Lucina, Corrin AND Chrom... for a single unnamed lance/axe lord so desired by fans that we can't even name that person.

I understand the Fire Emblem hate around here, but c'mon. What the hell.

 

[Idon]

So question for you all. What would you’re reaction be if the next Smash game cut these characters:










:ultrobin







in exchange for:
Skull Kid
Impa
Sylux
Bandana Waddle Dee
Dixie Kong
Waluigi
A Gen 8 Pokemon
A Lance/Ace Fire Emblem lord
Elma
Rex & Pyra
Isaac
Banjo and Kazooie
Dante
Doomguy

Mixed.

However, always open to trying new things.

 

[ZephyrZ]

He ain't dumb, he knows how the community will take his statements on geno to the grave, and it means either A. He earnestly wants this character to join smash bros on a personal level or b. he knew this would have made people buy the geno costume instead of feel insulted that he was a costume, by making those statements on geno, he changed the narrative of the costume from "This is a consolation prize he didn't make it" to "I've been trying to get geno in for a while now, but this is the best i can give you atm".

If Geno was never possible, I just wish he was honest to us, and gave us the ridley statement of "it won't happen sorry" regardless of if he actually had plans or not.

He did say he tried to get him in Brawl or something to that effect, as well as thinking he'd be perfect for Smash and commenting on his hand-gun.

I interpret that statement as "I think Geno would be cool, he was just never high-enough priority". Even if it's misleading PR speak I still feel it's a stretch to call it a flat-out lie.

And I'm sure there is a lot of characters Sakurai wanted or at least considered putting in Smash. As we all should know by now, he's a very passionate game developer and gamer himself.

Anyway, my point isn't that I hero-worship the man or that I think he's infalliable. I just think calling him a "serial liar" is a tad bit insulting.

 

[monadoboy]

He isn't shown doing much hand to hand combat either, in Zelda 1 he fights by firing projectiles and teleporting, in a link to the past he does the same plus a trident that he only ever uses as a projectile. In Ocarina of Time he spends the whole fight using magic projectiles + a magical ground slam, and when he changes into ganon he has dual swords. Then in Wind Waker he uses dual swords again and uses physical attacks in a couple cutscenes. Then in twilight princess he uses a single sword and a couple kicks but twilight princess came out after melee anyway so his melee appearance likely influenced that. The fact of the matter is that Ganon/Ganondorf isn't a brawler type character and never was apart from a small part of wind waker, there's no reason he should be one and it's completely innaccurate to his source material whether you like the moveset or not.

This made me realize Zelda only has three unique movesets while Mario has five and Pokemon eight. Just give me Tingle

So question for you all. What would you’re reaction be if the next Smash game cut these characters:

Waay too big sacrifices. I'd be very disappointed.

 

[RouffWestie]

So question for you all. What would you’re reaction be if the next Smash game cut these characters:










:ultrobin







in exchange for:
Skull Kid
Impa
Sylux
Bandana Waddle Dee
Dixie Kong
Waluigi
A Gen 8 Pokemon
A Lance/Ace Fire Emblem lord
Elma
Rex & Pyra
Isaac
Banjo and Kazooie
Dante
Doomguy

Totally worth it. The only severe losses in my eyes were Mewtwo and Ryu. The ones we get in exchange do a good job of adding popular and requested Nintendo characters from more than just two franchises.

 

[Curious Villager]

So question for you all. What would you’re reaction be if the next Smash game cut these characters:










:ultrobin







in exchange for:
Skull Kid
Impa
Sylux
Bandana Waddle Dee
Dixie Kong
Waluigi
A Gen 8 Pokemon
A Lance/Ace Fire Emblem lord
Elma
Rex & Pyra
Isaac
Banjo and Kazooie
Dante
Doomguy

Replace with then I'd.... still feel a bit meh about this and probably stick to Smash Ultimate since Mewtwo and Jigglypuff are gone...

 

[Nethermoosen]

I just don't see Dead Man's Volley as that fitting with his overall moveset, it's a projectile in a heavyweight like Ganon. Let's say it goes straight forward and hitting it turns it back, it then becomes useless, DDD's Gordos at least don't follow a predictable pattern

Here was my idea for totally canon and worth while Dead Man’s Volley:

Press b, he creates a very slow projectile with some weakish tracking.
The opponent can attack it and sends it back and it begins tracking Ganondorf.
Ganondorf’s b button will give him a swiping attack while he has a projectile out, and it is perfect for hitting the orb back, enough that Ganondorf usually has the advantage overall.
It can also be used as a follow up to the orb itself, so long as it’s still active.
As the orb is hit, it keeps speeding up and getting stronger and more dangerous.
Despite the tracking, it can be dodged fairly easily.
Ganondorf’s swipe move should be fast enough to keep him at advantage in the volley so long as the player’s reaction time is good.

I think this would make it dangerous enough to try and steer people away from trying to bounce it back, but that also means Ganon will be trying to bait attacks out so he can force the bounces and make it stronger.

Also, How cool would an Agahnim alt be?

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

If you're talking about Beast Ganon, that's a different beast(heh). A Beast Ganon fighter should do those things but humanoid Ganondorf never wields a Trident, teleports or fires bat projectiles.

But they are ultimately the same character and would have access to the same abilities, even just looking at human ganondorf in ocarina of time his main form of attack is firing electrical projectiles, and he should be able to float which he doesn't do in smash for some reason. Can you seriously look at his fight in oot and then look at his smash moveset and tell me that that's accurate?

Counter point - Fox has moves that relate to his arwing, C. Falcon has moves that relate to him being a racer, so why would Ganondorf having moves relating to beast Gannon be out of character.

Using magic attacks, a trident, etc. from his beast form would at least be refrencing something.

And this is why I didn't wanna start Ganondorf wars it can literally go on forever. And TBH you aren't saying anything I have heard a million times and I'm probably not giving you any new info (except maybe that fox comparison, that's a new one I thought of lol)

 

[Taco Cruise]

So question for you all. What would you’re reaction be if the next Smash game cut these characters:










:ultrobin







in exchange for:
Skull Kid
Impa
Sylux
Bandana Waddle Dee
Dixie Kong
Waluigi
A Gen 8 Pokemon
A Lance/Ace Fire Emblem lord
Elma
Rex & Pyra
Isaac
Banjo and Kazooie
Dante
Doomguy

I'd cry tears of pure joy

 

[Nethermoosen]

Counter point - Fox has moves that relate to his arwing, C. Falcon has moves that relate to him being a racer, so why would Ganondorf having moves relating to beast Gannon be out of character.

Using magic attacks, a trident, etc. from his beast form would at least be refrencing something.

And this is why I didn't wanna start Ganondorf wars it can literally go on forever. And TBH you aren't saying anything I have heard a million times and I'm probably not giving you any new info (except maybe that fox comparison, that's a new one I thought of lol)

The lesson here is that Ganondorf is loved.

 

[Luigi The President]

Woke up to no word from Vergeben.

Vergey please baby my crops are dying the speculation scene is collapsing upon itself

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

The lesson here is that Ganondorf is loved.

Oh absolutely.

And I am totally looking forward to the changes made to him in Ultimate.

It will just never be the same as a magic/sword based Ganondorf. Toon Ganondorf still has a chance right?

 

[TheCJBrine]

If you were Pokemon Trainer in Smash, which 3 mons would you pick?

You need a final evolution (Charizard), a second evolution (Ivysaur), and a first evolution (Squirtle).

For me, Nidoking, Hitmontop, and Corsola.

Gengar, Gloom, Ralts

Gengar is my favorite Ghost-type (well, its whole evolutionary line), Gloom reminds me of Fire Red where I'll always get an Oddish and usually keep it for Vileplume, and Ralts is cool as well as being in the same line as my favorite Psychic-type (aside from Celebi and Mew), Gardevoir.

Or I'd replace Gloom with Pikachu (my favorite of all pokés), but he's already in Smash.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Oh absolutely.

And I am totally looking forward to the changes made to him in Ultimate.

It will just never be the same as a magic/sword based Ganondorf. Toon Ganondorf still has a chance right?

Toon Dorf was never my first pick because of his aesthetic, but holy god he was fast for such a hefty dude.
I used to hate him because he flat out didn’t use sorcery, but then I realized he made his phantom do that for him earlier in the game and also probably remembered how that went last time(Ocarina of Time).
In hindsight, it was actually a smart change for him.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Just found out about the recently discovered renders and Yoshi's Crafted World costume, and since I have a little bit of time I'm going to throw out my 2 cents on the subject.

I think that since the beginning of this game's development, Sakurai has become aware now more than ever that secret characters and the feeling of unlocking secret characters is something that isn't feasible anymore, especially with the internet being as prominent as it is.

As such, basing my assumption off the new Yoshi render, Sakurai is now using alternate costumes as a way to fill that void of unlocking secret characters by keeping them under wraps, attaching harder unlock requirements with them, and only revealing a select few before the game comes out as a tease for things to come (I.e Mario, Ridley, Ike and Yoshi).

If this theory has any basis in reality, then seeing at least one alternate costume for each character would be amazing imo; Melee Roy in HD and Hot Ryu would be kinda clean.

 

[ZephyrZ]

So question for you all. What would you’re reaction be if the next Smash game cut these characters:










:ultrobin







in exchange for:
Skull Kid
Impa
Sylux
Bandana Waddle Dee
Dixie Kong
Waluigi
A Gen 8 Pokemon
A Lance/Ace Fire Emblem lord
Elma
Rex & Pyra
Isaac
Banjo and Kazooie
Dante
Doomguy

I'd be a bit dissapointed with a lot of the cuts "Palutena, Lucario, Emblemiers" but I'd be downright upset over Mewtwo. He's the one character who I really wanted for Smash 4.

And keep Robin as well, he does a great job at bringing FE's slow, tactical gameplay and resource management into Smash, as well as showcasing FE's magic (which is waaaay more interesting then whatever an axe lord could ever do).

 

[Luigi The President]

found out about the recently discovered render and Yoshi's crafted world costume, and since I have a little bit of time I'm going to throw out my 2 cents on the subject.

I think that since the beginning of this game's development, Sakurai has become aware now more than ever that secret characters and the feeling of unlocking secret characters is something that isn't feasible anymore, especially with the internet being as prominent as it is.

As such, basing my assumption off the new Yoshi render, Sakurai is now using alternate costumes as a way to fill that void of unlocking secret characters by keeping them under wraps, only revealing a select few before the game comes out as a tease for things to come (I.e Mario, Ridley, Ike and Yoshi).

If this theory has any basis in reality, then seeing at least one alternate costume for each character would be amazing imo; Melee Roy in HD and Hot Ryu would be kinda clean.

God that'd be just awesome. Here's definitely hoping.

 

[CaptainMac]

If you were Pokemon Trainer in Smash, which 3 mons would you pick?

You need a final evolution (Charizard), a second evolution (Ivysaur), and a first evolution (Squirtle).

For me, Nidoking, Hitmontop, and Corsola.

For me it would be as a Female Sinnoh Pokemon Trainer & I would use the following:

Infernape
Weavile
Buizel

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The lesson here is we can interpret characters as we wish to enjoy them more. I personally see Ganondorf as "I have this sword, but I do not need a toy such as this to best you"

 

[Kirby Dragons]

People get a lot more attached to what they already had, than to just the idea of something that could happen, and cut veterans tend to carry a lot more demand than almost all prospective newcomers. "Everyone Is Here!" almost certainly happened because of how well the veterans performed on the Smash Ballot; Snake, Wolf, and Ice Climbers were by all accounts Ballot frontrunners, Pokemon Trainer/Squirtle/Ivysaur certainly had a good amount of pull in the Ballot, and while Pichu and Young Link might not have done so well, after bringing back all the other characters you might as well bring back the two low effort clones so you can claim every single Smash character ever is back, it's not like you could have had any newcomer that wasn't a clone themselves in Pichu's and Young Link's place.

were certainly among the most popular, but I don't find it reasonable to get all three of them + + + everyone in Sm4sh before (presumably) any newcomers.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Toon Dorf was never my first pick because of his aesthetic, but holy god he was fast for such a hefty dude.
I used to hate him because he flat out didn’t use sorcery, but then I realized he made his phantom do that for him earlier in the game and also probably remembered how that went last time(Ocarina of Time).
In hindsight, it was actually a smart change for him.

And going back to wanting characters for character traits, WW Ganondorf is suchhhhh a better written character than just the king of evil. You actually pity him at the end, it's really good writing for a Zelda game.

To relate this to smash, I want Toon Ganondorf more for his characterization in WW than just his Moveset. But it would be cool to have this really large fighter also be one of the faster characters lol.

The lesson here is we can interpret characters as we wish to enjoy them more. I personally see Ganondorf as "I have this sword, but I do not need a toy such as this to best you"

*Realizes he's been bottom tier for at least 2 games*
"Ok, maybe for a couple moves..."

 

[Turnips and Daisies.]

Does anyone really want some sort of trailer or stuff at launch going over what makes the echo fighters different from their base counterparts?

Preferably it would be before launch, but I don’t want to go through placebo things.

 

[majora_787]

So question for you all. What would you’re reaction be if the next Smash game cut these characters:










:ultrobin







in exchange for:
Skull Kid
Impa
Sylux
Bandana Waddle Dee
Dixie Kong
Waluigi
A Gen 8 Pokemon
Hector
Elma
Rex & Pyra
Isaac
Banjo and Kazooie
Dante
Doomguy

Genuinely, cutting six Fire Emblem characters, half of which are already unique, for Hector would probably agitate my health enough for me to get ulcers and die.

EDIT: For that matter, if I had to pick cuts, I wouldn't cut Palutena Mewtwo Bayonetta Shulk or Lucario to begin with. There are a number of other characters I would boot before that.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

So question for you all. What would you’re reaction be if the next Smash game cut these characters:










:ultrobin







in exchange for:
Skull Kid
Impa
Sylux
Bandana Waddle Dee
Dixie Kong
Waluigi
A Gen 8 Pokemon
Hector
Elma
Rex & Pyra
Isaac
Banjo and Kazooie
Dante
Doomguy

None of them are getting replaced with a Rhythm Heaven Character so.... Garabge

 

[Curious Villager]

I'd rather Ganondorf use the moves he actually used in his human form rather than snub off his pig form who I'd personally much rather be his own character...

He already freeloads off Captain Falcon who's moveset was entirely made up to begin with.

 

[Deleted member]

Alright guys so how’s it go-
*sees everyone roasting his previous question*
...oh...I’ve asked for now haven’t I?

Cutting Ike, Robin, Roy, Lucina, Corrin AND Chrom... for a single unnamed lance/axe lord so desired by fans that we can't even name that person.

I understand the Fire Emblem hate around here, but c'mon. What the hell.

Changed it to Hector.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

So question for you all. What would you’re reaction be if the next Smash game cut these characters:










:ultrobin







in exchange for:
Skull Kid
Impa
Sylux
Bandana Waddle Dee
Dixie Kong
Waluigi
A Gen 8 Pokemon
Hector
Elma
Rex & Pyra
Isaac
Banjo and Kazooie
Dante
Doomguy

I’d only accept Richter leaving...the rest being cut ain’t worth it

That isn't Yarn Yoshi. That is Crafted Yoshi.

And he’s adorable either way

Jesus...

This whole thing is just a trash fire, good lord.

Toad deserves better than political ****s

 

[Chrono.]

If you were Pokemon Trainer in Smash, which 3 mons would you pick?

You need a final evolution (Charizard), a second evolution (Ivysaur), and a first evolution (Squirtle).

For me, Nidoking, Hitmontop, and Corsola.

Meowth, Torracat, Luxray.

There's a theme here.

 

[Q-Long]

The lesson here is we can interpret characters as we wish to enjoy them more. I personally see Ganondorf as "I have this sword, but I do not need a toy such as this to best you"

I actually can see Ganondorf being able to fight with "magical martial arts"

Though I wish Wario had more Wario Land stuff. Only way I can "headcanon" anything for him is that Wario is literally trolling me by not using Wario Land moves.

 

[Nethermoosen]

I'd rather Ganondorf use the moves he actually used in his human form rather than snub off his pig form who I'd personally much rather be his own character...

He already freeloads off Captain Falcon who's moveset was entirely made up to begin with.

Pig Ganon is probably the only character I wanted more than K. Rool. I just knew he wasn’t popular enough. Not that popularity is everything, it just seemed evident he wouldn’t be considered after the Dorf.

But maaaan...

 

[Kirby Dragons]

If you were Pokemon Trainer in Smash, which 3 mons would you pick?

You need a final evolution (Charizard), a second evolution (Ivysaur), and a first evolution (Squirtle).

For me, Nidoking, Hitmontop, and Corsola.

Dialga (first), Ninetales (second), and Empoleon (third)

So question for you all. What would you’re reaction be if the next Smash game cut these characters:










:ultrobin







in exchange for:
Skull Kid
Impa
Sylux
Bandana Waddle Dee
Dixie Kong
Waluigi
A Gen 8 Pokemon
Hector
Elma
Rex & Pyra
Isaac
Banjo and Kazooie
Dante
Doomguy

Mixed feelings. There are multiple veterans there I really like, but Dee and Isaac would be great, and there are mostly good choices in the newcomer roster.

 

[Autobot N]

So question for you all. What would you’re reaction be if the next Smash game cut these characters:










:ultrobin







in exchange for:
Skull Kid
Impa
Sylux
Bandana Waddle Dee
Dixie Kong
Waluigi
A Gen 8 Pokemon
Hector
Elma
Rex & Pyra
Isaac
Banjo and Kazooie
Dante
Doomguy

Trading my #1, #3, and #4 mains for 3 characters that I only sort-of want?