Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[MoonlitIllusion]

Here is something fun.

We have all the victory screens for Inkling and Ridley.

Try to think of victory screens for other newcomers.

Keep in mind that Daisy, Dark Samus, Chrom, K. Rool and Richter all have one splash screen shown already so remember to keep that one.

Isabelle doing a little cheer with her pompoms would be cute, maybe have another essentially be her forward smash, she pulls out a party popper and gets scared by the explosion.

 

[Exalt4747]

If this is true, I feel bad for Rayman's supporters, and a bit cheated in general.

 

[Frostwraith]

You're the one resorting to Ad Hominem and calling me obtuse, buddy.
All I'm saying is that Alph could be better represented which is not any different from your own opinion on Ganon(which I disagree with but that's besides the point). I don't get why you have the need to shut me down by trying to justify all the decisions made by Sakurai and his team as if they can't make mistakes.

Because your gripe with Alph isn't different from everyone else griping about Ganondorf and it all boils down to the same root cause: the flow of game's development.

For many people, Ganondorf being a Falcon clone is a mistake but there's still a valid reason as to why that happened.

Same for why Alph is a costume for Olimar. And I'll even argue that Alph is far more accurate to what he does in his games than Ganondorf is, but that's not even the point I'm making.

And I'm done with this. This discussion isn't going anywhere.

 

[hazza5557]

If this is true, I feel bad for Rayman's supporters, and a bit cheated in general.

What’s happened with Rayman?

 

[ChocolatGelgato]

Bayo's supposed ballot performance is suspect by the datamine revelation that she most certainly started development before the Ballot even launched, and by the "Among realizable characters" asterisk her results had. But regardless this assumption that Rayman was a secret Ballot Winner but ignored because he wouldn't sell to Japanese is highly suspect, if he was that popular he should be able to make Ultimate's base roster unless third party issues occurred.

And what, you do know the whole "Captain America" thing was someone claiming it was the something the Japanese was calling him and it got memed on, while it turned out it never had a real basis at all and was at most a comment from some random Japanese commenter? Don't know how you mix that up with something that Sakurai said. But regardless Ridley's popularity centralizing in the western world doesn't make him less popular, when it was still so great it got Sakurai to change his stance on him, there were a lot more people pulling for Ridley than a character with moderate popularity across the west and east would have had. If such a high level of popularity didn't exist for Ridley, he would probably still be a boss and another character would be in his place.

As I said, europe's winner. He really ain't that much of an icon outside of here, But everyone I knew with a PS1 had Rayman, apparently it was the number 1 best seller of the ps1 where i live, he has valid reason to skip a non nintendo (ridley lacks the 3rd party issues) character that's heavily biased towards the the reigon that's 3rd banana to America and Japan, but to tell me that Bayonetta, a doomguy-esque character that most people at the time believing she wouldn't even be allowed in smash in the first, beat rayman in his best by far reigeon, is wild.

Better for him to just say "Many fans requested Bayonetta in the ballot" instead of specifiying that she was "number 1" in a reigon that has another character that would have been much preferred themselves because to me that just makes you look like you're trying to cover your tracks for a misleading ballot that was actually for smash ultimate instead of the smash 4 dlc like they promised.

 

[Exalt4747]

What’s happened with Rayman?

Someone suggested that Rayman was the actual winner of the Smash Ballot in Europe, and that Bayonetta may have actually started development pre-ballot.

 

[Pakky]

Someone suggested that Rayman was the actual winner of the Smash Ballot in Europe, and that Bayonetta may have actually started development pre-ballot.

Honestly I believe that wholeheartedly.

The latter part is a fact though it was found out some months ago, so the former is probably true.

Though based on how Rayman is modeled in 4 I think there some intent to make an AT if not a character.

If you look at his topology in a 3D program like 3D studio Max or blender you can see his hands are modeled in a way for them to move and bend. If he was intended to be a static trophy this would probably not be the case as this wasn't an assist ripped from a per-exiting game.

No see Rayman & co. are 2D in their most recent games and the ones before that are too old at this point. Meaning the models you see in 4 for Rayman and his two buddies were made to be used in Smash.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

They didn't you dolt. Don't put this on competitive players. 99% of games are still made by primarily GAME DEVELOPERS.

Competitive players also flipped their **** at the missing fan-favorites, probably moreso since they actually dedicate a large amount of time into maining thay character.

This is PR talk by someone paid to control the damage and flak the company was getting, not some competitive mindset that's happy with playing with raw untextured polygons.

Dolt? Was that necessary?

If you think I'm misinformed why not just say so?

 

[hazza5557]

I know people who only know Sonic, Mario, Pac-Man and Pokemon from Smash and they know who Rayman is. He’s more iconic than nearly all the top 5 characters for Smash atm.

 

[Pyra]

A man of culture! This will be great!

Also Pyra are we still doing that tourney?

I'm still down for it.

 

[staindgrey]

That reminds how once I saw this guy back in the Smash 4 days who argued so adamantly that Pyramid Head was going to be on the Smash roster. It's one thing to have strange unconventional picks you want to see on the roster, but I never seen someone so sure to such an arrogant degree that such a weird and nigh-impossible pick would happen.

I think it's healthy to keep an adamant divide between one's expectations and wishes.

I mean, my favorite player character of all time is DAII's Hawke. If she somehow got into Smash, I would drop every other character and just play her. Forever. But there is literally zero chance of her getting in, and as a functional adult who has a firm grasp on reality, I recognize that and don't want to waste anyone's time trying to explain my wish into existence.

That said.

 

[Exalt4747]

Honestly I believe that wholeheartedly.

The latter part is a fact though it was found out some months ago, so the former is probably true.

Any ideas who would have won other areas, or just did well in general?

 

[Luigi The President]

Wait what why are we talking about Rayman

 

[IGuessItsOver]

Wait what why are we talking about Rayman

See below

Someone suggested that Rayman was the actual winner of the Smash Ballot in Europe, and that Bayonetta may have actually started development pre-ballot.

 

[Pakky]

Any ideas who would have won other areas, or just did well in general?

Honestly based on the costumes we got and the worldwide reception after his inclusion might have been big in the USA and in Japan probably the winner in the USA if not .

In Japan if not then possibly? Don't know really.

 

[Q-Long]

I had no clue Dragalia Lost is Nintendo

Think we will see an item or whatever from it?

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Someone suggested that Rayman was the actual winner of the Smash Ballot in Europe, and that Bayonetta may have actually started development pre-ballot.

I thought it was obvious she was chosen before hand.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Wait what why are we talking about Rayman

Because the heart wanders, Luigi...
It wanders and we can’t help it.

Lol no. Supposedly someone suggested Rayman was the ballot winner of Europe.

 

[Luigi The President]

Because the heart wanders, Luigi...
It wanders and we can’t help it.

Lol no. Supposedly someone suggested Rayman was the ballot winner of Europe.

Lol what? That's an odd revelation.

 

[IGuessItsOver]

Any ideas who would have won other areas, or just did well in general?

Shrek, Goku, Batman, Shantae, Shovel Knight, Cory Baxter.

Lol.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

They didn't you dolt. Don't put this on competitive players. 99% of games are still made by primarily GAME DEVELOPERS.

Competitive players also flipped their **** at the missing fan-favorites, probably moreso since they actually dedicate a large amount of time into maining thay character.

This is PR talk by someone paid to control the damage and flak the company was getting, not some competitive mindset that's happy with playing with raw untextured polygons.

Yeah competitive players are still just as much fans of the characters and their games, and a big part of why Smash is so much more popular than other fighting games is because of that connection to the characters, it's an extremely small minority that treats characters purely as "functions" and don't care at all for what characters are on the roster and all the other flare that goes into the game. If the bulk of competitive players were actually like that, other platform fighters catered to competitive players like Rivals of Aether would have a much larger competitive scene, and enthusiasm for Icons, a game heavily based on Melee which even has near complete rips of several Melee characters, wouldn't be lukewarm at best.

 

[Luigi The President]

Why are we giving this a second bit of thought??

I could say "Goku won Antarctica", are we supposed to believe that?
Or does Rayman dude have some sort of credence?

 

[staindgrey]

Why are we giving this a second bit of thought??

I could say "Goku won Antarctica", are we supposed to believe that?
Or does Rayman dude have some sort of credence?

I mean, considering Goku's worldwide appeal and the extremely small population in Antarctica, he has a pretty good chance.

 

[Exalt4747]

I thought it was obvious she was chosen before hand.

Not everyone heard about it. *shrugs*

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I don't get why you have the need to shut me down by trying to justify all the decisions made by Sakurai and his team as if they can't make mistakes.

I appreciate this sentiment. There's way too much Sakurai worship, and he's great and I love his game design/dedication/ all of it, but he's totally fallible. Ganondorf is, imo the biggest mistake in all of Smash, because unlike others it can't really be fixed at this point.

I appreciate that he has a few sword attacks and doesn't seem to be total garbage this go around, but that doesn't make up for the fact that he barely represents his own character and is more of a smash caricature. Would have been better to have waited until Brawl and given him a unique move set.

 

[ChocolatGelgato]

I never said Rayman won, just that I can 99% guarantee you, he got a good chunk more european votes than bayonetta did.

Like, is it that hard to believe that sakurai is just a serial liar, and he just makes everything sound nice to make you buy the game or shut up?

Oh look Ridley can never happen please leave me alone about it - oh wait all you had to do was shrink him a bit wasn't that funny I wouldn't have done it if Nintendo didn't have a weak E3 and needed some fanservice to boost their show that wasn't fortnite without my fans! <3

Oh look I would love to add geno to smash i've been trying for years maybe if you BUY THESE MII COSTUMES it could convince people that geno is more popular and maybe Square will let him in I hope one of vergeben's sources doesn't confirm I lied about Geno a couple years later

I love smash more than any other game series, and Ultimate, is shaping up to be the best smash by far, but god I am starting to realise how much of a BSer sakurai can be and am somewhat losing my pateience with what he says.

 

[Exalt4747]

I appreciate this sentiment. There's way too much Sakurai worship, and he's great and I love his game design/dedication/ all of it, but he's totally fallible. Ganondorf is, imo the biggest mistake in all of Smash, because unlike others it can't really be fixed at this point.

I appreciate that he has a few sword attacks and doesn't seem to be total garbage this go around, but that doesn't make up for the fact that he barely represents his own character and is more of a smash caricature. Would have been better to have waited until Brawl and given him a unique move set.

It's really weird when you consider that even Falcon's moveset was created for smash.

 

[Luigi The President]

I never said Rayman won, just that I can 99% guarantee you, he got a good chunk more european votes than bayonetta did.

Like, is it that hard to believe that sakurai is just a serial liar, and he just makes everything sound nice to make you buy the game or shut up?

Oh look Ridley can never happen please leave me alone about it - oh wait all you had to do was shrink him a bit wasn't that funny I wouldn't have done it if Nintendo didn't have a weak E3 and needed some fanservice to boost their show that wasn't fortnite without my fans! <3

Oh look I would love to add geno to smash i've been trying for years maybe if you BUY THESE MII COSTUMES it could convince people that geno is more popular and maybe Square will let him in I hope one of vergeben's sources doesn't confirm I lied about Geno a couple years later

I love smash more than any other game series, and Ultimate, is shaping up to be the best smash by far, but god I am starting to realise how much of a BSer sakurai can be and am somewhat losing my pateience with what he says.

Oh lol are you the mysterious Rayman guy people have quoted me telling me about

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

It's really weird when you consider that even Falcon's moveset was created for smash.

And unlike C.Falcon, Ganondorf has actually been shown to fight and we have an idea of what he could do.

Spoiler, it's not hand to hand melee combat.

 

[Exalt4747]

Oh lol are you the mysterious Rayman guy people have quoted me telling me about

FEAR HIM, FOR HE IS RAYMAN-MAN!

 

[Opossum]

I never said Rayman won, just that I can 99% guarantee you, he got a good chunk more european votes than bayonetta did.

Like, is it that hard to believe that sakurai is just a serial liar, and he just makes everything sound nice to make you buy the game or shut up?

Oh look Ridley can never happen please leave me alone about it - oh wait all you had to do was shrink him a bit wasn't that funny I wouldn't have done it if Nintendo didn't have a weak E3 and needed some fanservice to boost their show that wasn't fortnite without my fans! <3

Oh look I would love to add geno to smash i've been trying for years maybe if you BUY THESE MII COSTUMES it could convince people that geno is more popular and maybe Square will let him in I hope one of vergeben's sources doesn't confirm I lied about Geno a couple years later

I love smash more than any other game series, and Ultimate, is shaping up to be the best smash by far, but god I am starting to realise how much of a BSer sakurai can be and am somewhat losing my pateience with what he says.

I have no doubt Sakurai has stretched the truth in the past (in his position you kind of have to), but I see no evidence of Rayman being a top choice anywhere.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Okay.

What have I missed? Any new developments?

 

[IGuessItsOver]

RIP Toad's chances at being in Smash

Mod Edit: Link removed. Too much inappropriate discussion from it.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Yeah competitive players are still just as much fans of the characters and their games, and a big part of why Smash is so much more popular than other fighting games is because of that connection to the characters, it's an extremely small minority that treats characters purely as "functions" and don't care at all for what characters are on the roster and all the other flare that goes into the game. If the bulk of competitive players were actually like that, other platform fighters catered to competitive players like Rivals of Aether would have a much larger competitive scene, and enthusiasm for Icons, a game heavily based on Melee which even has near complete rips of several Melee characters, wouldn't be lukewarm at best.

Speaking of Icons, I still can't figure it out.

I try to see it as Melee 2.0, I get confused by the Free-to Play Mechanics and locking the new heroes behind walls
I try to see it as a ftp alternative to Smash, the lack of tutorials and characterisation for the characters then confuses me.

 

[Nethermoosen]

I appreciate this sentiment. There's way too much Sakurai worship, and he's great and I love his game design/dedication/ all of it, but he's totally fallible. Ganondorf is, imo the biggest mistake in all of Smash, because unlike others it can't really be fixed at this point.

I appreciate that he has a few sword attacks and doesn't seem to be total garbage this go around, but that doesn't make up for the fact that he barely represents his own character and is more of a smash caricature. Would have been better to have waited until Brawl and given him a unique move set.

The thing that bothers me is that all they had to do was include the few things he actually does do. Dead Man’s Volley being the most important. If he had that, he’d at least be as accurate as Donkey Kong(who only had one move til 64).

Dead Man’s volley to replace Warlock Punch would be all I actually need to consider him well represented and I think most people would agree since he didn’t do all that much else before Wind Walker.

The rest of his moveset would be fine as is, so long as he had that one damn thing. Lol.

But I would have preferred the OG Pig Demon.
If they had waited til BrawlC he could have pulled a Zelda/Sheik and transformed between both.

 

[Opossum]

Okay.

What have I missed? Any new developments?

New costumes in a Source Gaming exclusive that Nintendo Everything stole without sourcing.

 

[PsySmasher]

I had no clue Dragalia Lost is Nintendo

Think we will see an item or whatever from it?

We may get some Dragalia Lost content as DLC (it could literally be anything, even a character).

As for the base roster, maybe some music (like Fire Emblem Heroes) and a trophy or two.

 

[Firewolf73]

You would suggest Hilda as a Echo above Impa? That's a criminal offense my dude.

Honestly while Impa is more popular, Hilda makes a much better echo fighter. Impa even has the potential to be unique imo

 

[Crooked Crow]

I mean, considering Goku's worldwide appeal and the extremely small population in Antarctica, he has a pretty good chance.

Goku vs 10 scientists.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Honestly that doesn't make sense. All the returning characters had fans. So brining them all back was a great idea.

Having fans shouldn't matter unless the character has a lot of fans. You could say the same thing about characters who haven't even been in Smash, but that wouldn't be a reason to add them.

Honestly this game easily could have had no new character and still have been great.

Maybe for you.