Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Deleted member]

Yeah, besides being a clone of a completely unrelated character ever since his debut in Melee and people still dislike his representation in the game.

Sure, adding the sword and further differentiating him from Falcon is obviously a good thing and him being a ridiculously strong heavyweight fighter with dark powers obviously fits Ganondorf.

Keep in mind I wrote an entire article in defense of Ganondorf's (semi-)clone status. But let's not pretend that Ganondorf's moveset couldn't draw more from his games because it could.

Remember when I said gameplay is everything when it comes to characters? That's why Ganondorf's moveset is still a derivative of Falcon's.

And yes, everything about the development of the game will reflect on how the characters are implemented in the game because that's what the game's development is about in the first place.

As I said before, for Alph to be an echo, they'd need to spend development time and resources to make him feel distinct. They chose to focus on developing other echo fighters and other features. In other words, they prioritized other characters over Alph. So yeah, game development is very much a valid reason as to why Alph is the way he is in Smash.

Come the **** on, just admit that you're being purposely obtuse at this point for the sake of arguing with me.

>Gameplay is all that matters
>Ganondorf needs mpre stuff from his own games
It's just a function after all, why are you getting so angry about this?

 

[Omega Tyrant]

You know, I'm actually a little upset that the "season pass" discounted bundle happened after all of them were released. Which is totally ***-backwards to think. Stupid games industry.

Most games push their season pass as a preorder despite not telling us what's even in it. Meanwhile, Smash, I don't really care what all the characters end up being, I'm gonna buy them all anyway. Gimme the season pass discount.

They didn't give you any discount though, all those bundles served to do was save you come clicks pretty much.

 

[hazza5557]

The only Smash 4 character I bought was Mewtwo so now I’ve got even more new characters to play in Ultimate.

 

[staindgrey]

Admittedly i didn't buy but I may try them out now.

Though of the FEs may need some lab time.

Technically , and are the best DLC deals, since you get two characters for the price of one.

(The amiibo were stupidly hard to track down though.)

 

[T-Hell]

Admittedly i didn't buy but I may try them out now.

Though of the FEs may need some lab time.

Matter of fact who are you all going to work on?

Isabelle is going to be worked on for sure she seems oddly better than in some aspects.

I didn't buy Cloud, Corrin or Bayonetta, but I will definitely try them all out, especially Corrin as I feel he could become my favorite character from the FE representation, aside from Ike.

 

[P.Kat]

Here is something fun.

We have all the victory screens for Inkling and Ridley.

Try to think of victory screens for other newcomers.

Keep in mind that Daisy, Dark Samus, Chrom, K. Rool and Richter all have one splash screen shown already so remember to keep that one.

Isabelle fishing in a pond, and pulls out a giant Tuna a holds it up with glee (rarely a Shark will appear with Isabelle doing the same thing).

Isabelle, surprised she won, jumps at the screen at the last second for a cute close up.

Isabelle releases a barrage of party popper, showering the stage with confetti.

 

[staindgrey]

The only Smash 4 character I bought was Mewtwo so now I’ve got even more new characters to play in Ultimate.

...huh.

Nintendo's eShop really is the Mac Store of the games industry.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

"Functions" is a dirty word in the crossover fighter circuit thanks to Capcom's shenanigans with the Marvel vs series

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Technically , and are the best DLC deals, since you get two characters for the price of one.

(The amiibo were stupidly hard to track down though.)

Well Male Corrin's amiibo is pretty cheap (for obvious reasons, Female Corrin's amiibo is nearly six times the price).

 

[ChocolatGelgato]

Damn people are still pushing this sort of narrative against Ridley/K. Rool, even after Sakurai acknowledged the demand for the former was so great it got him to change his mind on Ridley's Smash viability, and acknowledged the latter was one of the best performing characters on the Smash Ballot (you know, which was marketed as being for DLC and thus was supposed to indicate who people would buy for DLC) and was why he added K. Rool to the roster?

I may not have the stats, and we likely never will, but Sakurai can't tell me that more Europeans voted for Bayonetta than Rayman, especially after we got Blueballed here by Omni, Ubisoft would have nutted over the prospect of rayman in smash, so they wouldn't stop them.

Rayman didn't "Win in Europe" not because of votes, but because he wouldn't sell in japan, and that to be is a good enough claim to asset that many of the characters we want and are desperate enough to make a ballot movement for are just vocal minorites that wouldn't reflect real sales.

Even Sakurai himself admitted that Ridley was "Captain America"

 

[MSmariosonic]

"Functions" is a dirty word in the crossover fighter circuit thanks to Capcom's shenanigans with the Marvel vs series

Is this a Combofiend reference?

 

[Nethermoosen]

Cracks his whip, Then turns his back to the screen.

A look of surprise is shown on her face... She's just shocked that she won.

Let's out a roar, Then attacks the cameraman...

Isabelle....shocked she won.
Absolutely giddy

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Even Sakurai himself admitted that Ridley was "Captain America"

Do you have sources for this? I'm just curious

 

[Idon]

Do you have sources for this? I'm just curious

He said Ridley got in due to overwhelming fan desire overseas.

As for the captain america name it's all bull**** in general.

 

[MSmariosonic]

Do you have sources for this? I'm just curious

Sakurai said during the Ridley preview after the E3 direct that Ridley was chosen because of outcry from fans overseas.

Which implies the west.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Sakurai said during the Ridley preview after the E3 direct that Ridley was chosen because of outcry from fans overseas.

Which implies the west.

Oh okay thanks, got it...

 

[Frostwraith]

>Gameplay is all that matters
>Ganondorf needs mpre stuff from his own games
It's just a function after all, why are you getting so angry about this?

How do these contradict?

Yes, Ganondorf could be better represented but yes, because gameplay is more important, Ganondorf never quite broke out from his clone status.

Playing as him is fun, his moveset works and he's not totally out of character, but even a lot of Ganondorf mains who like him as he is admit that he could've had a more fitting moveset (and potentially more fun as well) that still fits the general powerful heavyweight feel that Ganondorf currently has in the game.

That's why people rejoiced at Ganondorf having a sword for the Smash attacks. They're more true to his character, but they fit with the gameplay established for him as well.

At this point, you don't even have an argument against my claims and that's honestly sad. You simply resort to making assumptions about me.

Finally, if you nitpick hard enough, you'll find plenty of out of character moments in Smash such as Robin using Nosferatu while in Tactician class. Even Sakurai admits taking liberties with the characters if that makes them more fun and engaging to play as. Look at that! Gameplay means everything, as I've been arguing the whole day at this point.

Between Alph as an Olimar alt, even if it leads to some inaccuracies with the source material, or no Alph at all, which is the best choice to satisfy Alph fans? Would they rather have him as an Assist Trophy? I think not.

 

[staindgrey]

Well Male Corrin's amiibo is pretty cheap (for obvious reasons, Female Corrin's amiibo is nearly six times the price).

Oh, I'm aware. Female Corrin, long-haired Bayo and Advent Children Cloud were all retailer exclusive, so if you didn't preorder them in time, they all got expensive quick. I think Corrin was Amazon, Bayo was Best Buy and Cloud was Gamestop, if my memory's correct.

I hate retailer exclusive ****. I remember preordering Gears 3 at four different places so I could get all the multiplayer characters, then selling my extra copies to friends.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Ganondorf is well represented enough, does nothing out-of-character and doesn't have soulless eyes so he's good.

When did Ganondorf use wizards foot? Or a giant darkened punch? Or an upward leaping grab? He never double kicks, flip kicks. He never uses a heavy sword, most certainly not the one he has in Ultimate. And his sword-style is closer to Marth than Ike. He is also most notable for his sorcery. Which he doesn’t really use except to make his attacks look more magical.

 

[staindgrey]

Here is something fun.

We have all the victory screens for Inkling and Ridley.

Try to think of victory screens for other newcomers.

Keep in mind that Daisy, Dark Samus, Chrom, K. Rool and Richter all have one splash screen shown already so remember to keep that one.

Daisy needs one in her Strikers Charged outfit looking like she's about to murder someone.

I'll accept nothing else.

 

[Pakky]

Real talk because I keep thinking about it .

What if Pyramid Head?

Or the Boy Goemon?

 

[ChocolatGelgato]

Do you have sources for this? I'm just curious

Okay I was wrong, Bill Trinen asserted the captain america claims, not sakurai.

However he still wouldn't have raked in the worldwide dlc numbers that cloud, bayonetta or ryu did.

EDIT: How do you all believe Minecraft Steve secretly won the ballot and that ridley and krool are huge mainstream picks at the same time.

We are all on the same boat, We are dedciated, Vocal minorites who love our characters, stop pretending you are more important than those who didn't get their favourite characters into smash.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I can't believe you missed out the best stages in the entire game.

Won't miss out **** once it gets released with Ultimate.

I frequently play all the other DLC characters, but woulnd't play Cloud, Bayonetta or Ryu. So that explains all.

 

[MSmariosonic]

Real talk because I keep thinking about.

What if Pyramid Head?

Hey we got Castlevania and Metal Gear.

Might as well throw Konami's next big franchise in there.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Is this a Combofiend reference?

That and also an earlier one where the left Mega Man out of MVC3 and reasoned that Arthur covered his FUNCTION.

This is what happens when competitive players become game devs.

 

[Pakky]

Hey we got Castlevania and Metal Gear.

Might as well throw Konami's next big franchise in there.

Like when I think of Horror game icons he's one of the bigger ones, if not the biggest.

Don't no one @ me about FNaf, I ain't even about that life.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

So Nintendo Everything didn't source, Source Gaming. Now they're blocking everyone on twitter whos pointing it out. Whoops.

Real talk because I keep thinking about.

What if Pyramid Head?

Or the Boy Goemon?

If Konami got even more, i'd rather Contra got something, but that's just me personally

 

[Pakky]

So Nintendo Everything didn't source, Source Gaming. Now they're blocking everyone on twitter whos pointing it out. Whoops.



If Konami got even more, i'd rather Contra got something.

They're on my list of icons to make. Sorry its taken so long.

 

[MSmariosonic]

Like when I think of Horror game icons he's one of the bigger ones, if not the biggest.

Don't no one @ me about FNaf, I ain't even about that life.

Pyramid Head and a RE rep would pretty much cover the whole horror genre.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Oh, I'm aware. Female Corrin, long-haired Bayo and Advent Children Cloud were all retailer exclusive, so if you didn't preorder them in time, they all got expensive quick. I think Corrin was Amazon, Bayo was Best Buy and Cloud was Gamestop, if my memory's correct.

I hate retailer exclusive ****. I remember preordering Gears 3 at four different places so I could get all the multiplayer characters, then selling my extra copies to friends.

Oh yeah... They're terrible. Remember when Rosalina was A Target Exclusive and this one Guy Hoarded a ton of them Just because he hated Rosalina, Meaning that it was super difficult to find her? Man, The Amiibo craze was insane back then,

 

[Omega Tyrant]

I may not have the stats, and we likely never will, but Sakurai can't tell me that more Europeans voted for Bayonetta than Rayman, especially after we got Blueballed here by Omni, Ubisoft would have nutted over the prospect of rayman in smash, so they wouldn't stop them.

Rayman didn't "Win in Europe" not because of votes, but because he wouldn't sell in japan, and that to be is a good enough claim to asset that many of the characters we want and are desperate enough to make a ballot movement for are just vocal minorites that wouldn't reflect real sales.

Even Sakurai himself admitted that Ridley was "Captain America"

Bayo's supposed ballot performance is suspect by the datamine revelation that she most certainly started development before the Ballot even launched, and by the "Among realizable characters" asterisk her results had. But regardless this assumption that Rayman was a secret Ballot Winner but ignored because he wouldn't sell to Japanese is highly suspect, if he was that popular he should be able to make Ultimate's base roster unless third party issues occurred.

And what, you do know the whole "Captain America" thing was someone claiming it was the something the Japanese was calling him and it got memed on, while it turned out it never had a real basis at all and was at most a comment from some random Japanese commenter? Don't know how you mix that up with something that Sakurai said. But regardless Ridley's popularity centralizing in the western world doesn't make him less popular, when it was still so great it got Sakurai to change his stance on him, there were a lot more people pulling for Ridley than a character with moderate popularity across the west and east would have had. If such a high level of popularity didn't exist for Ridley, he would probably still be a boss and another character would be in his place.

 

[Michele]

I don't wanna derail the thread and I'm not sure anyone is going to mention it. But...Seems like there is a drama between NintendoEverything and SourceGaming. It started because the former published the finding on the latter without crediting that same person.

https://twitter.com/PushDustIn/status/1042063295274934277

https://twitter.com/NinEverything/status/1042085329203879936

https://twitter.com/ConnorEatsPants/status/1042089232863555584

https://twitter.com/BlackHeartedInk/status/1042077222599897093

 

[Deleted member]

How do these contradict?

Yes, Ganondorf could be better represented but yes, because gameplay is more important, Ganondorf never quite broke out from his clone status.

Playing as him is fun, his moveset works and he's not totally out of character, but even a lot of Ganondorf mains who like him as he is admit that he could've had a more fitting moveset (and potentially more fun as well) that still fits the general powerful heavyweight feel that Ganondorf currently has in the game.

That's why people rejoiced at Ganondorf having a sword for the Smash attacks. They're more true to his character, but they fit with the gameplay established for him as well.

At this point, you don't even have an argument against my claims and that's honestly sad. You simply resort to making assumptions about me.

Finally, if you nitpick hard enough, you'll find plenty of out of character moments in Smash such as Robin using Nosferatu while in Tactician class. Even Sakurai admits taking liberties with the characters if that makes them more fun and engaging to play as. Look at that! Gameplay means everything, as I've been arguing the whole day at this point.

Between Alph as an Olimar alt, even if it leads to some inaccuracies with the source material, or no Alph at all, which is the best choice to satisfy Alph fans? Would they rather have him as an Assist Trophy? I think not.

You're the one resorting to Ad Hominem and calling me obtuse, buddy.
All I'm saying is that Alph could be better represented which is not any different from your own opinion on Ganon(which I disagree with but that's besides the point). I don't get why you have the need to shut me down by trying to justify all the decisions made by Sakurai and his team as if they can't make mistakes.

When did Ganondorf use wizards foot? Or a giant darkened punch? Or an upward leaping grab? He never double kicks, flip kicks. He never uses a heavy sword, most certainly not the one he has in Ultimate. And his sword-style is closer to Marth than Ike. He is also most notable for his sorcery. Which he doesn’t really use except to make his attacks look more magical.

Are we really doing this again? Do you really want me to name all moves the characters in Smash don't use in canon?

 

[Idon]

That and also an earlier one where the left Mega Man out of MVC3 and reasoned that Arthur covered his FUNCTION.

This is what happens when competitive players become game devs.

They didn't you dolt. Don't put this on competitive players. 99% of games are still made by primarily GAME DEVELOPERS.

Competitive players also flipped their **** at the missing fan-favorites, probably moreso since they actually dedicate a large amount of time into maining thay character.

This is PR talk by someone paid to control the damage and flak the company was getting, not some competitive mindset that's happy with playing with raw untextured polygons.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Real talk because I keep thinking about.

What if Pyramid Head?

Or the Boy Goemon?

Or Princess Tomato?
(Sorry Tougon, imma Steal your joke)

 

[Pakky]

Or Princess Tomato?
(Sorry Tougon, imma Steal your joke)

Or Reiko, double steal (I hurt myself ;( )

 

[Nethermoosen]

Are we really doing this again? Do you really want me to name all moves the characters in Smash don't use in canon?

Is that what we’re doing? No, ma’am.
I was just responding to you saying he is well represented.
Talking about other characters with the same problems won’t make it less true.
He barely does anything he does in his games.
Anything.

It isn’t a complaint, it’s an observation.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Real talk because I keep thinking about.

What if Pyramid Head?

Or the Boy Goemon?

That reminds how once I saw this guy back in the Smash 4 days who argued so adamantly that Pyramid Head was going to be on the Smash roster. It's one thing to have strange unconventional picks you want to see on the roster, but I never seen someone so sure to such an arrogant degree that such a weird and nigh-impossible pick would happen.

 

[staindgrey]

Oh yeah... They're terrible. Remember when Rosalina was A Target Exclusive and this one Guy Hoarded a ton of them Just because he hated Rosalina, Meaning that it was super difficult to find her? Man, The Amiibo craze was insane back then,

I REMEMBER THAT.

God. If he had that much money to waste, why not give it to Extra Life with the condition that they publicly say "this guy really hates Rosalina" on a public stream? The money helps people, the products go to people who want them, and he still gets to be a jackass. Everybody wins.

 

[P.Kat]

Admittedly i didn't buy but I may try them out now.

Though of the FEs may need some lab time.

Matter of fact who are you all going to work on?

Isabelle is going to be worked on for sure she seems oddly better than in some aspects.

Dooooo iiiiit. Corrin is a blast to try out but that's just me.

Me I'll still work on my mains (Sheik, Lucina, and Corrin), as well my new potential mains Chrom, and Isabelle... I have too many mains, help me!

Isabelle feels better in terms of not needing as much setups in her move as Villager, especially Down B, which could lead to some kill confirm if you manage to hit the opponent trapped in the move possibly. The range on her Fishing Pole command grab looks killer, especially if you miss, and you could reel in your hook to catch someone along the way again, as well as a possible tether recovery. Her Standard moves looks faster too, with Villagers being slower but does more damage.

"Functions" is a dirty word in the crossover fighter circuit thanks to Capcom's shenanigans with the Marvel vs series

Yeah, that was a dirty way of saying "Hey you don't need Magneto, he means nothing in the long run, just like every character you loved from the old games especially the X-Men and the Fantastic Four."

I sometimes wonder if Ammy and Phoenix Wright not making in MvCI was a good thing or a bad thing, or maybe even an intentional thing by Capcom so they could be in Smash Ultimate instead. It's possible, but if that's not the case a guy could dream right?