Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Potato_]

Hot take: Both CoroCoro and Box theories are wrong.

CoroCoro misreported the stage number, however unlikely that seems. They may have based it off the remaining number of spaces.

Box is a placeholder and just filled out with the current number of characters. The final box may not even have the remaining characters to avoid leaks.

There's more than 2 left and possibly more stages.

I could see this honestly. Although if CoroCoro is wrong then I'll probably go back to believing 103 is the final stage number.

Hmm.....looks like GameFAQs users are being rather toxic as usual.

I doubt he wants to, but I guarantee he'd get a better reception here. Most of us believe he has legitimate sources, and I think the people who still don't believe him would be mature enough to not pester him.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

We also got nothing in July, so it wouldn't be the first time the hype train skipped a month.

We also got nothing in April & May.

 

[Pazzo.]

Why do you think they moved Corrin tot he right side then?

Come again?

 

[staindgrey]

So end of april 2015 is after now? ok.

Oh whoops, had my years mixed up. I've repeated this argument so much I spoke without looking it up. My bad.

XCX released after the Smash ballot started, not the final roster decision. It suffers from not being new and relevant when the decision was made, and not having fan support from a ballot that started before the game even released. Since the character inclusions thus far have shown a clear influence from the ballot, Elma kind of gets left in the dust. But at the same time, Xenoblade's biggest draw is its grand, beautiful worlds, and XCX has an incredible soundtrack. It's very possible it was relegated to a stage due to the awkward timing for a character, and it's certainly more likely to be represented in Ultimate than XC2, which just released in December.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

We still have quite a few franchises that haven't gotten a remix yet. Some of the more notable ones include:



Every franchise getting a single track seems very likely at this point. Not impossible to double-dip, but we'd probably have to exclude one of the remaining franchises if we wanted to do that.

The Ones I really kind of doubt.
Assuming Krystal is now an Assist Trophy, I don't think we'll get another Star Fox Character. Unless we have an Issabelle situation and Slippy is a Semi clone
I don't think Mother is Big enough to have three Non Echo Characters.
After the backlash against Dark Pit, I doubt Sakurai will add a Unique Kid Icarus Newcomer anytime soon
Kinda in a Star Fox situation where the most Requested Character is confirmed to be an Assist trophy.


The Ones That Legitimately have a chance.
Isabelle just got announced. Wouldn't be surprised if an Animal Crossing Remix will be added this week.
Shadow or Tails have a chance of becoming Semi Clones like Isabelle did. Especially if Someone like SEGA demands them to different from Sonic..
Elma from Xenoblade Chronicles X has been speculated to be a potential character for this game ever since Sakurai said that he bought a Certain Mech Figure for research
If Verge is Right, then Incineroar will be in the game and I expect a song from Pokemon Sun and Moon to come alongside him

 

[SvartWolf]

Assuming that you can't be of both box team and corocoro team.

So far as we know, the remaining 5 stages could be a minecraft stage, a Donkey Kong Tropical freeze stage ( I don't think we are getting ganplank galleon since it would been revealed with K.rool, and DK just lost 2 stages) Mute City (melee), a new pokemon Sun and Moon stage and a new franchise stage. Although right now my biggest fear is the remaining 5 stages are Dracula's Throne room, Monster Hunter plain, and 3 other "boss only" stages...

Thta being said, I (sadly) Believe the box theory... but one question, do you guys think that we may get a #70 character as a surprise near launch, that due to it's late reveal, isn't on the box? i think this even if i have 0 proof outside of a wild speculation regarding character announcments and remaining time. but i'm kinda hopeful it will be ( still actually happy with the current roster, so i'm hoping responsibly) This would line with the dante leak, or the SE unkown rep ... or maybe something different. still for this to actually work i think taht it needs to be an hype character (dante is hype... just... not inside the smash fanbase)

Regarding DLC do you think that DLC echoes will be athing? and if so, do you think they will charge for them the same price? be free? or be charged at a lower rate (like mii costumes) Also do you think mii costumes are returning, and if so, do you think we will see new ones?
Final question... what would Isaac Fans think if Isaac no only isn't a playable character, but neither an Assist Trophy (and no Golden Sun content)?

 

[Tree Gelbman]

It's possible. We apparently already have confirmation of Luigi's Mansion 3 content being in Smash, so why not?

Wait.....we do?

I mean we don't even know what Bayo 3 Bayo looks like.

We know next to nothing about that game because Kamiya and Platinum Games are apparently either twiddling their thumbs or trying to construct the Sistine Chapel of Bayonetta games before revealing more information.

Edit: Don't post without coffee and sense!

 

[Pakky]

vs

Cat vs mouse, I just got that.

Wow, I am on it today!

 

[TheKnight]

The box theory is really completely baseless and rather stupid in my opinion. It’s kinda the same thing as people looking at the unfinished stage select and saying “we only have this many stages left because of the blank spaces”. It’s the assumption that the design is set in stone and is incapable of being altered in any way. It’s baseless. The box is clearly an unfinished design...

 

[KMDP]

The weird ****ing thing about this 108 stages thing is that it fits perfectly. 5 more stages and then a tab to go to the DLC stages fills out that Stage Select Screen very nicely. It'd be different if it was 109 because then where does the DLC stages go? It's weird man.

With Stages and there being 108, I'm on the team that believes that, if the 103 Stage Total were every stage in the game, they'd have center-justified the Stage Select Screen, at least until DLC starts coming.

Personally, I'm Team "I Couldn't Care Less" because I'm quite satisfied with the game. HOWEVER, I don't think you can believe all the rumors that are going around and say they compliment each other. Verge, Box Theory, and CoroCoro can all exist together, they can, it's possible, but it's highly, HIGHLY unlikely in my opinion. I kinda wanted to get an idea of where people stood on each side of the fence but, uh, I didn't really get that. Most people either said both or CoroCoro. So, CoroCoro?

To use this post of yours as a springboard for what I want to say...

Regarding Game Satisfaction: Someone (I believe it was Idon ) said something along these lines:

"People ask us Fire Emblem fans, 'you've already got 7 Fire Emblem characters; aren't you satisfied with that?', and to that I say 'no, we won't be satisfied until we get the character we actually want (Lyn)'." (This is heavily paraphrased, but it gets the idea across).

I'm kinda like this with Isaac (and Tails to an extent): are nice and all, and I'm happy for their fans; but, to be frank, I've only got a personal connection with two of them (Daisy and Chrom), neither of which were high on my most wanted lists.

I already got most of the characters I would have asked for in the game already (prior to Smash Ultimate), Isaac is kind of the last 1st Party character I really want in the game (who still has a shot); with the exception of Tails, Agumon, Vaati*, Lyn and Nightmare, everyone else on my request list in my Signature are pretty much all characters who my active support for came after joined these forums.

*I don't consider Vaati to really have a shot at playability mostly because he's competing with a lot of Zelda characters, and may or may not have rights issues with Capcom. That aside he's still lower on my wanted list than Isaac anyway.

 

[uebo7]

Come again?

https://imgur.com/o31DlaI

It's the entire conceit of box theory.

 

[ChocolatGelgato]

I am still inclined to believe there are 3 newcomers left, I know box whatever you're setting expectations but whatever man idc.

I think with 108 stages then a ROB stage and a Minecraft stage are very likely. I also think Meta Crystal will finally debut as a selectable stage, and the final 2 stages will reflect something we haven't seen at all yet. Possibly from series like Rhythm Heaven, Super Mario RPG/Dragon Quest or Devil May Cry.

Also if Minecraft is in, but not playable (I know steve is not deconfirmed by verge), then I feel like Banjo's inclusion has to be somewhat entertained once more, no matter how unlikely.

 

[Mutsukki]

This is a small detail I found in Ultimate. It took two games, but he finally now smiles when losing. Why did they make such strange change for Brawl and Smash 4? It might have been to cater for competitive gamers, but why such strange change?
View attachment 164941

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I hate pissed of Mario in Smash. He's still kinda angry, but at least he's smiling

 

[Pakky]

Wait.....we do?

I mean we don't even know whay Bayo 3 Bayo looks like.

We now next to nothing about that game because Kamiya and Platinum Dunes are apparently either twiddling their thumbs or trying to construct the Sistine Chapel of Bayonetta games before revealing more information.

I hope we get it soon and something wonderful

 

[Cap'n Jack]

The same people peddling the box theory are the same people telling others that empty stage slots are nothing to go by. So it is hard to take it seriously

 

[uebo7]

The box theory is really completely baseless and rather stupid in my opinion. It’s kinda the same thing as people looking at the unfinished stage select and saying “we only have this many stages left because of the blank spaces”. It’s the assumption that the design is set in stone and is incapable of being altered in any way. It’s baseless. The box is clearly an unfinished design...

It's not the same at all. There aren't simply "blank spaces", there's an entire pattern to the design that you can follow and come to a conclusion about. They even made considerations for unannounced characters when laying the characters out in this pattern. If there were a random blank space in, say, the upper right of a stage select screen surrounded by other stages on all sides, that would be quite different than simply the last few spaces of the bottom being empty.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

https://imgur.com/o31DlaI

It's the entire conceit of box theory.

Do you have that in a better quality?

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Did I say Platinum Dunes? The film studio?

Instead of Platinum Games? The game studio?

Good. God.

Be right back. I need some coffee stat.

 

[Chrono.]

Any new developments in the last 10 hours or so?

 

[Mutsukki]

The same people peddling the box theory are the same people telling others that empty stage slots are nothing to go by. So it is hard to take it seriously

One thing is very logical and has literally been proved a bunch of times because of weird character placement and empty slots on what should be a filled piece of boxart, so it retains it's concept.

The other one is literally empty spots that might just be there much like Smash 4

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Did I say Platinum Dunes? The film studio?

Instead of Platinum Games? The game studio?

Good. God.

Be right back. I need some coffee stat.

Micheal Bay confirmed to be making a Smash Bros movie

 

[uebo7]

The same people peddling the box theory are the same people telling others that empty stage slots are nothing to go by. So it is hard to take it seriously

Not the same at all. See my last post: "There aren't simply "blank spaces", there's an entire pattern to the design that you can follow and come to a conclusion about. They even made considerations for unannounced characters when laying the characters out in this pattern. If there were a random blank space in, say, the upper right of a stage select screen surrounded by other stages on all sides, that would be quite different than simply the last few spaces of the bottom being empty. "

 

[ThatOneAnon]

I’m genuinely starting to believe Vergeben’s sources mistook Dante for a character from Final Fantasy.
If so then oh my god that’s ****ing hilarious

 

[Pakky]

I’m genuinely starting to believe Vergeben’s sources mistook Dante for a character from Final Fantasy.
If so then oh my god that’s ****ing hilarious

But... No

he's perfect...

Low-key not even a bad costume 10/10

 

[TheKnight]

It's not the same at all. There aren't simply "blank spaces", there's an entire pattern to the design that you can follow and come to a conclusion about. They even made considerations for unannounced characters when laying the characters out in this pattern. If there were a random blank space in, say, the upper right of a stage select screen surrounded by other stages on all sides, that would be quite different than simply the last few spaces of the bottom being empty.

If my understanding of the theory is correct, then it’s still making the assumption that the portraits cannot be shrunk or changed in any way to accomodate more. It’s still assuming that no aspect of the box design can be changed before release with the exception of squeezing additional characters into the blank spaces, isn’t it? Correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[Pazzo.]

https://imgur.com/o31DlaI

It's the entire conceit of box theory.

Assuming that the characters won't be arranged or resized, assuming box is the final image minus new characters.

It's likely they got all the official renders so far and fitted them according to their current number.

The box theory says it went Total Character Number -> Box -> Remove upcoming reveals when it could have been;

Number of characters as of Early September 2018 -> Box dimensions -> Empty spaces.

 

[Paperchampion23]

I’m genuinely starting to believe Vergeben’s sources mistook Dante for a character from Final Fantasy.
If so then oh my god that’s ****ing hilarious

I doubt that, he hasn't changed his stance on the SE character in a month.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

I’m genuinely starting to believe Vergeben’s sources mistook Dante for a character from Final Fantasy.
If so then oh my god that’s ****ing hilarious

How can you be working on Smash and not know the difference?

 

[ThatOneAnon]

How can you be working on Smash and not know the difference?

Vergeben’s sources don’t necessarily need to be working on Smash.

 

[Drakonix]

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I hate pissed of Mario in Smash. He's still kinda angry, but at least he's smiling

There is something oddly funny about pissed off Nintendo characters though. Gotta get that rage out from their respective games somehow hahah.

 

[Chrono.]

I’m genuinely starting to believe Vergeben’s sources mistook Dante for a character from Final Fantasy.
If so then oh my god that’s ****ing hilarious

He has a name, so I doubt it.

 

[praline]

I’m genuinely starting to believe Vergeben’s sources mistook Dante for a character from Final Fantasy.
If so then oh my god that’s ****ing hilarious

Literally how?

 

[ThatOneAnon]

He has a name, so I doubt it.

Imagine the SE rep is literally just a guy with a shirt that says “Square Enix” on it and his name really is SE Rep

 

[Pakky]

Literally how?

Dante is my favorite Squall.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Ok, hold the damn phone. Are we seriously suggesting that all 5 of the stages are from new franchises, that also don't have a character? Like, I could see 1 maybe but 5? I highly doubt that. I can't really see Inceneroar getting a stage either. Geno? Maybe we could talk about that but it seems like everyone who believes in the Box Theaory believes that the last two are Ken and Inceneroar

Take into consideration that there has only been what, 8(?) stages like that in ALL of Smash. Less so if Smashville and the Mii stages aren't included. What games do we expect to get a stage treatment but not a character treatment? I could see maybe Rythm Heaven but even then there's characters from there that I consider likely. Could they be from already represented franchises? Sure, but why would they wait so long to show it if they aren't also getting a character? I just don't see a game getting a stage without also getting a character. Maybe Nintendoland? But, again why not already show it?

Believe me I understand that the CoroCoro "leak" doesn't necessarily contradict the box theory but I personally fell like believing both is foolish. Because, basing off what we've already gotten, they wouldn't have hesitated to show off a stage that wasn't going to get a character. At most I feel like they could show a stage that would eventually get a character a la Boxing Stage and Little Mac but that doesn't see anymore likely. Sure, they don't contradict each other but there's no logic to them holding back stages unless it's for new characters. It doesn't make any logical sense.

I think generally the possible thought process in New stages were that if they were part of an existing franchise or not tied to a new character, they would have ended up revealing the stage already. However interestingly enough, the new franchise newcomers brought a stage with them, and Mario and Zelda happened to release their big games last year, so we have those 2.

If we are indeed getting 5 more stages, I can see one of them tied to Pokemon just because it's Pokemon, but I can see the remaining 4 being solely tied to new franchise newcomers. It completely depends on how many we'd get though so who knows. We could get 2 more characters or we could get 10 by November, we just have no way of knowing right now.

 

[staindgrey]

Assuming that the characters won't be arranged or resized, assuming box is the final image minus new characters.

It's likely they got all the official renders so far and fitted them according to their current number.

I've said this before, but I'll say it again:

As someone who works in marketing, I would not put the effort into rearranging the roster in a specific, thought-out order if I knew that I was not given all the information. We are too close to release for Nintendo to not give their marketing team all of the available information so they can properly arrange and design the box art. No one on the design team is going to get surprised suddenly with new renders that Nintendo didn't feel like sharing before.

It's possible that the arrangement doesn't indicate every single character, and that other newcomers will appear somewhere else on the box-- though unlikely-- but the idea that Nintendo's just hiding some other characters from their design team and plan on making them create a total redo later is wishful thinking.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

Featuring Dante from the Final Fantasy series

 

[Tree Gelbman]

That's why the box art theory is so silly to me.

It's a LOT of ASSUMPTIONS being passed off as accuracy.

Like the variables in the theory are just far too many and too much.

The box art could not be final (which we know it's not), the portraits can shrink (there's nothing saying they can't), the echo could be for some reason not Ken, the amount of echoes on Ken's side could grow (there's no way to not know that say Medusa is next to Palutena or something), the use of Vergeben to make it accurate yet he's saying three characters, the fact you have to assume his third character is DLC.

If something's got that many assumptions to make it right? It's probably not right.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I hate pissed of Mario in Smash. He's still kinda angry, but at least he's smiling

Mario was done with nearly everyone’s ****, but has now found inner peace

 

[Astroworld]

Wait.....we do?

I mean we don't even know what Bayo 3 Bayo looks like.

We know next to nothing about that game because Kamiya and Platinum Games are apparently either twiddling their thumbs or trying to construct the Sistine Chapel of Bayonetta games before revealing more information.

Edit: Don't post without coffee and sense!

Did they ever say Kamiya is directing 3? He didn’t direct 2. Although since Scalebound was cancelled maybe he’ll come back